| 00:07 | AryehGregor | eventually remembers that "object" is JavaScript-speak for "associative array" |
| 00:13 | <othermaciej> | AryehGregor: I'm not sure if that's a totally correct way to think about it - objects also have object-like aspects to them, besides the fact that their set of properties is open-ended |
| 00:14 | <AryehGregor> | Yes, true. But in this context it just means "associative array", pretty much. |
| 00:14 | <othermaciej> | the buzzword "Web OS" makes me want to stab myself in the eye |
| 00:14 | <AryehGregor> | I'm not used to languages with a generic Object type that you can stick random attributes on. |
| 00:14 | AryehGregor | takes sharp objects away from othermaciej |
| 00:15 | <tantek> | IMHO "Web OS" is a far more palatable (and useful) buzzword than "Object Oriented" |
| 00:15 | <othermaciej> | AryehGregor: isn't basically the same thing true in Python and Ruby? |
| 00:16 | <othermaciej> | tantek: I like "Web Platform" or "Open Web Platform" or "Standards-Based Web Platform" |
| 00:16 | <AryehGregor> | Python has a dedicated dict type that you'd use for this kind of thing. (If you didn't use named parameters, that is.) |
| 00:16 | <othermaciej> | I don't think "Web OS" means anything |
| 00:16 | <tantek> | othermaciej - good points. "platform" is more correct |
| 00:16 | <othermaciej> | AryehGregor: I understand that it has a dict type, but as I understand it Python objects are also dictionaries under the covers |
| 00:16 | <AryehGregor> | I think you could do something like foo = Object(); foo.bar = "baz" and so forth, but I don't think that's possible in any way that's sensible for passing to an argument. |
| 00:16 | <tantek> | the "Web OS" has nothing to do with the typical definition of an "OS" |
| 00:17 | <tantek> | of course the term "Web App" is just as bad, for the same reasons |
| 00:17 | <tantek> | and belies "OS" |
| 00:17 | <AryehGregor> | My problem is I'm not used to object literals, so when you say "pass an object to a function" I think about setting a variable to the object and assigning a bunch of stuff on different lines before passing it. |
| 00:17 | <tantek> | if there are "Web Apps" then surely they must run on a "Web OS" |
| 00:17 | <AryehGregor> | Is Chrome OS a "Web OS"? :) |
| 00:18 | <othermaciej> | AryehGregor: it's a "Cloud OS" |
| 00:18 | <othermaciej> | at least, that's what I read on TechCrunch |
| 00:18 | <othermaciej> | tantek: the way I understand it, applications run on a platform but that platform does not have to be an OS |
| 00:19 | <othermaciej> | for example, Java is a platform (though that's not necessarily the nicest comparison example) |
| 00:19 | <othermaciej> | Python plus its common extensions is arguably a platform of sorts |
| 00:19 | <othermaciej> | Many people think of "LAMP" as a platform, and while the acronym includes an OS, that's the least important bit from the point of view of the apps |
| 00:20 | <AryehGregor> | I'd say the web server is less important than the OS. |
| 00:20 | <AryehGregor> | For LAMP. |
| 00:20 | <tantek> | othermaciej - another good point. there are Java apps, but certainly the notion of a "Java OS" has failed pretty miserably |
| 00:20 | <AryehGregor> | L vs. W affects whether you, e.g., can shell out to Unix utilities and handy things like that. |
| 00:21 | <AryehGregor> | A vs. I vs. L vs. N vs. whatever doesn't really make a noticeable difference to the app author. |
| 00:21 | <othermaciej> | the Web server being Apache lets you implement parts of your app in the form of Apache config rules |
| 00:21 | <othermaciej> | (how much people do that, I dunno) |
| 00:21 | <AryehGregor> | Nobody I've heard of relies on that very heavily. |
| 00:21 | <AryehGregor> | Generally a few rewrites at most. |
| 00:22 | <othermaciej> | Linux vs. FreeBSD vs Mac OS X probably doesn't matter hugely in terms of shell capabilities |
| 00:22 | <othermaciej> | agreed Windows is a different world |
| 00:22 | <othermaciej> | AryehGregor: sure, but if there are even a few rewrites, you need to "port" that part of your web service to move to a different web server |
| 00:22 | <AryehGregor> | Usually the rewrites are nonessential, though. |
| 00:22 | <AryehGregor> | I'm not aware of any app that requires them. |
| 00:23 | <AryehGregor> | You just fall back to ugly URLs if the admin can't be bothered to take the extra step on installation. |
| 00:23 | <AryehGregor> | Of course, the same is normally true for use of shell utilities, but that can be a somewhat bigger deal. |
| 00:24 | <AryehGregor> | Certain features of MediaWiki will just fail if diff3 isn't available, for instance. |
| 00:24 | <AryehGregor> | Usually also not a huge deal, but I'd say slightly more. :) |
| 00:24 | <AryehGregor> | P > M > L > A |
| 00:26 | <AryehGregor> | Why are the two parts I dislike the most, the most important and least portable ones? :( |
| 00:31 | <Hixie> | Lachy: hard to miss that error in testing |
| 08:07 | <annevk3> | morning |
| 08:07 | <gsnedders|work> | mornin' |
| 08:30 | <annevk3> | hsivonen, Philip`, do you have any data related to encodings? |
| 08:31 | <gsnedders|work> | Philip` does |
| 08:32 | <annevk3> | ah yeah, just found http://philip.html5.org/data/meta-content-type.txt |
| 08:32 | <gsnedders|work> | http://philip.html5.org/data/charsets.html |
| 08:33 | <annevk3> | sweet |
| 08:34 | <hsivonen> | annevk3: what kind of data? |
| 08:36 | <annevk3> | unique encoding labels |
| 08:36 | <tantek> | anybody here have a particular opinions about the microdata predefined vocabularies? |
| 08:48 | <annevk3> | tantek, I like the idea, but I don't feel strongly either way |
| 08:48 | <annevk3> | hsivonen, actually, I guess ARIA role=heading will influence the eventual document outline |
| 08:49 | <annevk3> | hsivonen, so I think your critique was correct |
| 08:50 | <tantek> | annevk3 - the major issue (with the predefined vocabs) is that they are for the most part a static fork/snapshot of microformats vocabs (hCard and hCalendar), and are very much going to have all the bugs (issues in progress) that a snapshot typically does. and frankly this group/community lacks the direct experience and day-to-day usage to keep up with and properly resolve. |
| 08:51 | <tantek> | (lots of outstanding issues on hCard and hCalendar that have been challenging for *me* to resolve, and I invented them and have been living/breathing them for nearly 5 years now) |
| 08:52 | <gsnedders|work> | What was that downloadable web cache that Philip`was using? |
| 08:52 | <annevk3> | tantek, I thought they were snapshots of vCard and vEvent and such |
| 08:52 | <tantek> | anyway - I'm moving forward with producing hCard and hCalendar 1.0.1 specs which incorporate all issue resolutions, and have UA conformance requirements with similar wording to HTML5 - I can pretty much guarantee these will be both be better and better reflect the reality of web author usage than the "predefined microdata" section in HTML5 |
| 08:53 | <tantek> | and will advocate dropping predefined microdata vocabs once hCard 1.0.1 and hCalendar 1.0.1 are published. |
| 08:54 | <tantek> | annevk3 - that's the problem, they were *snapshots* |
| 08:54 | <tantek> | and as such, rapidly went out of date |
| 08:59 | <hsivonen> | tantek: I like the idea of having non-dotted-token vocabs for common stuff |
| 08:59 | <hsivonen> | tantek: I'd be OK with microformats.org managing the non-dotted-token vocabs |
| 09:23 | mpt | wonders why the March 2009 mailing list archives are so incomplete |
| 09:24 | <gsnedders|work> | Because completeness is overrated |
| 09:24 | <mpt> | Oh, because I'm looking at the archives for the wrong mailing list, durrrr |
| 09:36 | <tantek> | thanks hsivonen - that's good to know. |
| 09:36 | <gsnedders|work> | Am I right in reading the spec to say that <table><tbody><td>foo will throw a parse error upon the td open tag being processed in the tree constructor? |
| 09:36 | tantek | returns to fixing bugs in predefined non-dotted-token vocabs. |
| 09:39 | <annevk3> | gsnedders|work, seems like it should |
| 09:39 | <gsnedders|work> | Oh wait, I'm being stupid. Ignore me. |
| 09:39 | <gsnedders|work> | Gah. Too late. |
| 11:04 | <Creap> | in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tabular-data.html#attr-th-scope that example, couldn't you say that Legs and Tails are also th's, for their corresponding row? |
| 11:07 | <annevk3> | in the actual table they are <th> |
| 11:07 | <annevk3> | just not in the example markup |
| 11:07 | annevk3 | files a bug |
| 11:08 | <takkaria> | annevk3: I sent feedback on removing device-* from media queries, don't know when it'll arrive on list |
| 11:09 | <annevk3> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Aug/0585.html |
| 11:09 | <takkaria> | oh, I was looking at the July archives, oops |
| 11:09 | <annevk3> | Creap, http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7440 |
| 11:10 | <Creap> | thanks |
| 12:39 | <jgraham> | Is it defined somewhere what happens if I do Object.prototype.__defineGetter__("document", function() {return "foo"})? |
| 12:41 | <Dashiva> | Not in a single place |
| 12:42 | <jcranmer> | the proton streams get crossed |
| 12:42 | <Dashiva> | But what is the alternate behavior you're wondering about, jgraham? |
| 12:42 | <jgraham> | Dashiva: OK, well afaik __defineGetter__ isn't specified anywhere. But assuming it wasw, is there any wat to tell from a spec what will happen if I do the above and access window.document? |
| 12:43 | <jgraham> | i.e. whether I would get "foo" or a [HTMLDocument] |
| 12:44 | <Dashiva> | Oh, I see what you mean |
| 12:45 | <Dashiva> | window doesn't have a regular prototype chain |
| 12:46 | <Dashiva> | And in any case, window's own properties would be checked before reaching Object |
| 12:46 | <jgraham> | Hmm, true |
| 12:51 | <Dashiva> | Now, if you tried doing that on e.g. Document with documentElement, I think it would depend on whether documentElement is ReadOnly or not |
| 12:57 | <Philip`> | gsnedders|work: http://www.dotnetdotcom.org/ ? |
| 12:57 | <gsnedders|work> | Philip`: Ah, yeah, thx |
| 12:57 | <jgraham> | Dashiva: That was what I was thinking. So I started investigating… |
| 12:59 | <Dashiva> | Now, DOM 3 Core says documentElement is ReadOnly |
| 15:52 | <eighty4> | gsnedders|work: pong? |
| 15:52 | <gsnedders|work> | eighty4: pong |
| 15:52 | <eighty4> | *ping |
| 15:52 | <eighty4> | gsnedders|work: valla 18.00? |
| 15:53 | <gsnedders|work> | eighty4: yeah |
| 15:54 | <eighty4> | good good |
| 15:55 | <eighty4> | but don't expect any wonders, I'm way to tired for that. |
| 15:56 | <gsnedders|work> | :) |
| 16:34 | <eighty4> | gsnedders|work: still there? |
| 16:34 | <gsnedders|work> | eighty4: yes |
| 16:34 | <eighty4> | you're so not going to make it in time :) |
| 16:34 | <gsnedders|work> | eighty4: I'm so getting a lift :) |
| 16:34 | <eighty4> | pff |
| 16:34 | <gsnedders|work> | eighty4: You going from Ryd? |
| 16:34 | <eighty4> | yeah |
| 16:34 | <gsnedders|work> | That helps :) |
| 16:35 | <eighty4> | ? |
| 16:35 | <gsnedders|work> | Well, it is closer :) |
| 16:35 | <eighty4> | right |
| 16:35 | <eighty4> | but you should see my bike |
| 16:35 | <eighty4> | or well... you'll see my bike |
| 16:36 | eighty4 | s so hating that opera rounds % and that ie don't support display:table-row |
| 16:36 | <TabAtkins> | God, I know. Makes it difficult as hell at times. |
| 16:36 | <gsnedders|work> | IE8 supports display:table-row, no? |
| 16:37 | <TabAtkins> | Yes, but that's not something you can depend on for a widely-deployed page. |
| 16:38 | TabAtkins | really wishes for a display:table-row-start value that would make a table-cell, but in a new row. |
| 16:38 | <TabAtkins> | There's no reason I should have to wrap this stuff in a container just to make it multi-line. |
| 16:39 | <gsnedders|work> | Manipulating tables through DOM is horrible |
| 16:41 | <TabAtkins> | is there something special about tables that makes it bad, or is just dealing with the DOM? |
| 16:43 | <gsnedders|work> | Tables are just especially bad |
| 16:44 | <eighty4> | and now my server is playing with me :( |
| 16:44 | <eighty4> | http://play.broken8.se/box/index.php ffs |
| 16:51 | <eighty4> | there we go. I so want that to work in ie |
| 16:52 | <TabAtkins> | Possibly solution: pop some jQuery in a conditional comment that fakes it. This requires saying "screw you" to IE<8 users who have scripting turned off, but screw them. |
| 16:54 | <cardona507> | thats cool eighty4 - is it javascript? or php? |
| 16:55 | <cardona507> | ic now |
| 17:30 | <Philip`> | "... unless maybe the user has a terabyte of free disk space" - pfah, who *doesn't* have a terabyte of disk space these days? |
| 17:31 | <AryehGregor> | I have less than 200 GB free right now. :( |
| 17:35 | <TabAtkins> | i have 40gb free. |
| 17:36 | <TabAtkins> | this laptop's old, and i regularly fill it with movies. |
| 17:36 | <AryehGregor> | One of the servers I'm root on has over a terabyte free. |
| 17:36 | <AryehGregor> | But that's not really usual on home desktops yet. :) |
| 17:37 | <TabAtkins> | nod. 500gb is fairly common for new computers, or higher-end slightly older computers. |
| 17:37 | <TabAtkins> | but 1tb or more isn't common yet unless you've added the space yourself. |
| 17:38 | <AryehGregor> | 500 GB total is common, 500 GB free isn't so common. Not after a while's use, anyway. |
| 17:39 | <AryehGregor> | I have over 500 GB total here. |
| 17:39 | <TabAtkins> | ok, yeah |
| 17:39 | <AryehGregor> | . . . actually, right now it's about exactly 500 GB total, since I'm using my second disk for RAID 1. |
| 17:40 | <TabAtkins> | next birthday: new computer, so I'm not relying on a 5-year old laptop for all my personal computing. |
| 17:44 | <Philip`> | 1TB disks cost about 20% more than 500GB disks when I last checked |
| 17:44 | <Philip`> | (They were external disks, though, so I suppose they have higher fixed costs) |
| 17:44 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, but assuming equal quality, you're reducing your mean time to failure by consolidating |
| 17:45 | <TabAtkins> | Obviously, assuming you're RAID0ing the 500gb disks |
| 17:49 | <AryehGregor> | If you care about MTBF, why are you using RAID 0? |
| 17:49 | <AryehGregor> | Er, MTTF, whatever. |
| 17:49 | <smoofles> | oy |
| 17:50 | <smoofles> | where can one ask about features for html 5, or rather just bounce an idea – is this channel ok? |
| 17:50 | <TabAtkins> | Clearly you wouldn't, is the point. ^_^ But if you're doing a better RAID, you're losing some disks. |
| 17:50 | <TabAtkins> | smoofles: yup |
| 17:51 | <smoofles> | cools, I was wondering if it would make sense to have the video tag support an alt attribute |
| 17:51 | <TabAtkins> | So for a simple RAID1, you're paying a 50% premium. More expensive than the 1tb disk, but more reliable too. |
| 17:51 | <smoofles> | that would hold the url for an alternatively-encoded video file |
| 17:51 | <AryehGregor> | smoofles, that's what <source> is for, surely? |
| 17:51 | <smoofles> | oh |
| 17:51 | <TabAtkins> | For that case, use <source> children elements rather than the @src attribute. |
| 17:52 | <smoofles> | aah, didn't know about the <source> one |
| 17:52 | <TabAtkins> | no problem |
| 17:52 | <TabAtkins> | Works for <audio> too. |
| 17:52 | <smoofles> | coolio |
| 17:52 | <smoofles> | I read over the source elements stuff |
| 17:53 | <smoofles> | good, that basically settles the codec discussion for me, thanks :) |
| 17:53 | <TabAtkins> | Yup. Still annoying that you have to provide two files, but at least it works. |
| 17:55 | <smoofles> | yeah, well, on a lot of the sites people provide more versions anyway, everything from swf, mov, avi, mp4, etc |
| 17:55 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah. |
| 17:55 | <TabAtkins> | Someday, though. Someday... |
| 17:58 | <smoofles> | I guess 10 years from now it will be just a couple of thousand jpg files and an mp3, sort of like Apple's "http streaming" idea, since bandwidth will increase that much – problem solved :P |
| 17:58 | <TabAtkins> | haha, that'll work. |
| 18:10 | <jorlow> | oops.....one of the test shell unit tests is going to go red from 24612 |
| 18:10 | <jorlow> | i'll have a fix in soon |
| 18:10 | <AryehGregor> | . . . is that meant for #chromium? |
| 18:11 | <jorlow> | :-) sorry |
| 18:11 | AryehGregor | used to have #chromium where he now has #whatwg on his screen, so was confused for a second there |
| 18:24 | <zcorpan_> | annevk2: html5-differences could point out in the abstract that it also lists changes between published html5 drafts |
| 19:08 | <zcorpan_> | annevk2: "The address element is now scoped by the new concept of sectioning." - could be changed to say that it's scoped to nearest ancestor article element (or body) |
| 19:10 | <Lachy> | is anyone here familiar with SQL? |
| 19:11 | <mpilgrim> | Lachy: i am |
| 19:11 | <mpilgrim> | though it's been a while |
| 19:11 | <AryehGregor> | Lachy, you mean like the formal standard, or some SQL-based RDBMS in practice? |
| 19:11 | <Lachy> | I'm need to write a test for webdatabase that inserts multiple rows, but I don't know how to construct an INSERT statement that can actually insert more than 1 row |
| 19:11 | <Lachy> | AryehGregor, SQLite specifically |
| 19:11 | <AryehGregor> | I'm not sure that's possible in a RDBMS-independent way. |
| 19:11 | <AryehGregor> | In MySQL you can just do INSERT INTO foo (x,y,z) VALUES (1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6), ...; |
| 19:12 | <Lachy> | I don't care if it's RDBMS-independent. I just need to test our implementation that uses SQLite |
| 19:12 | <AryehGregor> | Couldn't you just do multiple INSERT statements? |
| 19:13 | <AryehGregor> | It looks like in SQLite, the only way to do it is: INSERT INTO foo (x, y, z) SELECT * FROM (SELECT 1, 2, 3 UNION ALL SELECT 4, 5, 6 UNION ALL ...); |
| 19:13 | <AryehGregor> | At least according to a quick Google search. |
| 19:13 | <AryehGregor> | The usual way is probably just multiple INSERTs. |
| 19:14 | <AryehGregor> | The "S" part of "SQL" is kind of a misnomer. :D |
| 19:14 | <Lachy> | no, because I'm trying to test the resultSet.rowsAffected API, which means I need to do it within a single executeSql statement, rather than several |
| 19:15 | <AryehGregor> | Then you should be able to use a subquery. INSERT INTO foo (x, y, z) SELECT * FROM (SELECT 1, 2, 3 UNION ALL SELECT 4, 5, 6 UNION ALL ...); |
| 19:15 | <AryehGregor> | Alternatively, if it's not actually possible, you don't have to test it. :) |
| 19:15 | <Lachy> | I will try that soon |
| 19:18 | <eighty4> | TabAtkins: yeah I know. I could just rewrite it to do float:left for ie<8 since those handles % more or less correctly imo |
| 19:18 | zcorpan_ | blinked at "ie<8" without actually reading the whole line |
| 19:19 | zcorpan_ | misread it as "ie<3" |
| 19:19 | <eighty4> | zcorpan_: definitely not :) |
| 19:20 | <eighty4> | is it wrong that I'm more concerned about getting stuff to work in opera then in ie6 and 7? |
| 19:20 | <zcorpan_> | nope ;) |
| 19:20 | <eighty4> | good |
| 19:22 | <zcorpan_> | maybe you'd get a different answer from someone who doesn't work at opera |
| 19:22 | <eighty4> | ;) |
| 19:22 | <eighty4> | it's not like I have any visitors anyway :D |
| 19:23 | <eighty4> | but you really should fix how opera handles % |
| 19:23 | <zcorpan_> | i'm not sure what we do wrong with % |
| 19:26 | <eighty4> | you're rounding it up :) |
| 19:27 | <eighty4> | or if it was down |
| 19:27 | <eighty4> | 12.456% gets 13 or if it was 12 |
| 19:28 | gsnedders | rounds everything down |
| 19:29 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: We always round down in CSS |
| 19:29 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: Also, foolip kept trying to find you. |
| 19:29 | <zcorpan_> | gsnedders: ok |
| 19:30 | <zcorpan_> | i guess we have a bug already? |
| 19:31 | virtuelv | misread ie<8 as ie is less than boobies |
| 19:31 | <TabAtkins> | Firefox I know tries to round intelligently, so frex 8 floating boxes set to 12.5% width always take up exactly 1 line. |
| 19:31 | <zcorpan_> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/219 |
| 19:31 | <TabAtkins> | I don't know if they use heuristics to tell when they should round up/down or what. |
| 19:31 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: Dunno. What we do is fine per spec, because rounding is undefined. |
| 19:32 | <Hixie> | you shouldn't round |
| 19:32 | <virtuelv> | Hixie: I assume you should do sub-pixel positioning, then? |
| 19:32 | <Hixie> | yes |
| 19:33 | <Hixie> | possibly with render-time snap-to-grid |
| 19:33 | <Hixie> | but there shouldn't be any cumulative rounding error |
| 19:33 | <gsnedders> | We fail a lot of the Mozilla rounding reftests because of rounding differences |
| 19:33 | <Hixie> | i filed a bug on opera needing to do subpixel layout about 3 decades ago |
| 19:33 | <gsnedders> | Though as far as I could tell, our behaviour is mostly fine per spec, just different. |
| 19:34 | <zcorpan_> | 3 decades? |
| 19:34 | gsnedders | tries to remember if Hixie has even been alive for three decades |
| 19:36 | <zcorpan_> | it would be slightly better if we rounded down just one pixel |
| 19:36 | <zcorpan_> | but now we round 0.9% to 0% |
| 19:36 | <gsnedders> | Yeah, right |
| 19:36 | <eighty4> | I should file that "bug" I found.... still not sure it's actually a bug |
| 19:36 | gsnedders | finds a site compat bug on the Flickr Pro "place order" page |
| 19:36 | <eighty4> | 0.9% could be 100px |
| 19:36 | gsnedders | guesses about the cause |
| 19:37 | <TabAtkins> | zcorpan_: Really? That's, um, quite bad. |
| 19:37 | <zcorpan_> | indeed |
| 19:37 | <gsnedders> | TabAtkins: YA RLY |
| 19:37 | <TabAtkins> | Even on standard resolutions that's 10px or more. >_< |
| 19:37 | <TabAtkins> | gsnedders: ORLY? |
| 19:40 | zcorpan_ | finds CORE-1006 |
| 19:40 | <mpilgrim> | "CW: I still plan on being involved but probably less than in the past." <-- I honestly don't see how that's possible |
| 19:41 | gsnedders | laughs at the number of duplicates |
| 19:41 | <mpilgrim> | (from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Aug/1331.html ) |
| 19:44 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: You going to be in tomorrow? |
| 19:45 | <zcorpan_> | gsnedders: yes |
| 19:48 | <gsnedders> | Then I'll speak to you about this then |
| 20:07 | <Hixie> | jgraham: the spec gen script is hanging when doing the w3c version |
| 20:08 | <Hixie> | which i think means it's hanging doing the annotations |
| 20:08 | <eighty4> | would this be considered a bug? http://play.broken8.se/opera_bug/ watch it in ff browsers and then opera. Try to remove overflow: hidden on #content. |
| 20:09 | <Hixie> | ok that could possibly be because my server went down |
| 20:09 | <Hixie> | wtf |
| 20:14 | <gsnedders> | eighty4: Oh, that issue again… WebKit does what Opera does, and I think that is right |
| 20:15 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: maybe we should allow <object> to have an open-ended set of attributes, like <embed> |
| 20:15 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: as a shorthand for <param ...> |
| 20:15 | <eighty4> | gsnedders: yeah, I never did anything about it last time |
| 20:15 | <gsnedders> | eighty4: overflow:hidden is odd though |
| 20:16 | <eighty4> | gsnedders: but why would the display property change how margin and float works? |
| 20:16 | <gsnedders> | It shouldn't,. |
| 20:17 | <eighty4> | yet it does :) |
| 20:18 | <gsnedders> | I didn't say it did not :) |
| 20:18 | <eighty4> | i.e. a bug? |
| 20:20 | <gsnedders> | Yeah |
| 20:20 | <gsnedders> | W |
| 20:20 | <gsnedders> | *Which behaviour is right is debatable, I think |
| 20:20 | <zcorpan_> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/220 another opera bug i stumbled upon yesterday |
| 20:21 | <gsnedders> | We have quite a few bugs with button, though |
| 20:21 | <zcorpan_> | seems display:list-item on parent/ancestor triggers it |
| 20:23 | <Hixie> | zcorpan_: why? |
| 20:24 | <Hixie> | jgraham: regen script is indeed hanging on the w3c copy for some reason |
| 20:24 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: because browsers support it and it's a lot shorter in markup |
| 20:25 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: authors have to choose between short markup and no fallback (embed) and verbose markup with fallback (object) |
| 20:25 | <Hixie> | zcorpan_: *shrug* |
| 20:25 | <Hixie> | zcorpan_: they shouldn't do either |
| 20:26 | <zcorpan_> | because plugins are evil? |
| 20:28 | <Hixie> | well i dunno about "evil", but certainly they're not to be encouraged |
| 20:28 | <Hixie> | what with being media-specific, platform-specific, even browser-specific |
| 20:28 | <Hixie> | and proprietary |
| 20:31 | <jgraham> | Hixie: Oh |
| 20:31 | <jgraham> | I will have a look |
| 20:35 | <annevk3> | zii.com looks interesting |
| 20:37 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: "The id attribute represents its element's unique identifier (ID)." - not sure why <a name> is much different |
| 20:38 | <TabAtkins> | annevk3: Huh, interesting. An android phone with multi-touch, cool. |
| 20:38 | <TabAtkins> | And a free phone with purchase of the SDK. |
| 20:38 | <Hixie> | zcorpan_: woah, that's bogus. |
| 20:39 | zcorpan_ | sees that lang="" uses the word "specifies" instead of "represents" |
| 20:40 | <annevk3> | Hixie, represents is used all the time for various things |
| 20:40 | <annevk3> | Hixie, e.g. also for the cookie attribute |
| 20:40 | <Hixie> | file bugs |
| 20:41 | <annevk3> | well I don't really care |
| 20:41 | <Hixie> | (especially if it's the hyperlinked "represents") |
| 20:41 | <Hixie> | (cos that makes no sense) |
| 20:41 | <annevk3> | it's not linked |
| 20:41 | <Hixie> | ok well then it's basically a meaningless statement |
| 20:41 | <Hixie> | just fluff |
| 20:41 | <Hixie> | and certainly not a definition of any kind |
| 20:42 | zcorpan_ | filed a bug |
| 20:44 | <zcorpan_> | maybe you should replace all non-normative sentences in the spec with "Fluff fluff fluff..." |
| 20:44 | <Dashiva> | zcorpan_: Normative spec view |
| 20:45 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: Or, "This is filler text." |
| 20:46 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: "An error occured while submitting your comment. Please let ian⊙hc know." |
| 20:48 | zcorpan_ | tries again |
| 21:01 | <sebastiandeutsch> | Don't know if I'm right here. Can I ask a technical canvas question? Is it possible to instanciate a canvas, then draw on it and the blit it (drawImage) on another canvas? |
| 21:06 | <TabAtkins> | sebastiandeutsch: You *should* be able to pull the data from the first canvas with getImageData, then blit it over with putImageData on the second. |
| 21:07 | <TabAtkins> | Haven't used <canvas> directly, but the spec seems to say that's how you'd do it. |
| 21:08 | <jgraham> | Hixie: Clearly the annotations script is broken but I'm not quite sure why |
| 21:08 | <TabAtkins> | Goddammit, people have no patience. Dude left after *2* minutes of me reading the spec for him. |
| 21:13 | <annevk3> | he prolly figured out drawImage worked fine |
| 21:16 | <jgraham> | Hmm maybe it is just that w3c.org is being really slow |
| 21:16 | <jgraham> | s/w3c/w3/ |
| 21:17 | <jgraham> | I guess I should make a cache of the data somehow and use the cached values if the requests take too long |
| 21:17 | <jgraham> | But not this evening |
| 21:51 | <Philip`> | sebastiandeutsch: I guess you'll never read this but you can just use drawImage to draw one canvas onto another |
| 21:56 | TabAtkins | is having fun rolling his own security system (industry-standard encryption, but homebrew system for employing it), but wonders if it's sufficient. |