| 02:15 | <TabAtkins> | OMG, home internet is finally back. This is the first time I've connected through my home router in very nearly exactly 14 days. |
| 02:15 | <TabAtkins> | (It would be exactly 14 days in about 20 minutes.) |
| 02:15 | <beowulf> | precision, we has it |
| 07:36 | <drunknbass> | i just noticed i have an issue using Image() |
| 07:36 | <drunknbass> | seems my js moves on before the image() data is ready |
| 07:37 | <drunknbass> | is there a solution for that?. i didnt notice it because the images were getting cached :/ |
| 08:46 | <hsivonen> | having child point to parent assures treeness |
| 08:47 | <hsivonen> | ARIA does it the other way, whyc seems bad |
| 08:47 | <hsivonen> | (aria-owns) |
| 08:49 | <hsivonen> | s/whyc/which/ |
| 08:58 | <drunknbass> | how can i embed base64 and make an image out of it for canvas? |
| 09:16 | <hsivonen> | drunknbass: data URL |
| 09:16 | <drunknbass> | ? |
| 09:17 | <drunknbass> | now image.src? |
| 09:17 | <drunknbass> | not* |
| 09:17 | <hsivonen> | drunknbass: you can load the data: URL into image.src |
| 09:17 | <drunknbass> | any links? |
| 09:17 | <drunknbass> | everything i find doesnt work |
| 09:17 | <drunknbass> | and seems to be from b4 canvas |
| 09:18 | <hsivonen> | just http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2397.txt |
| 09:19 | <drunknbass> | ok how do i use this with image or drawImage? |
| 09:19 | hsivonen | notes "URL" in the title of that RFC |
| 09:20 | <hsivonen> | drunknbass: by using it as the URL of a new Image() |
| 09:21 | <drunknbass> | heh thx |
| 09:21 | <drunknbass> | i dunno why it wasnt working b4 but i changed single quotes to double and it works |
| 09:21 | <drunknbass> | lol |
| 09:22 | <drunknbass> | ahh it doesnt make a difference lol.. pre still wont show my images |
| 09:23 | <hsivonen> | drunknbass: does Pre support data URLs? |
| 09:24 | <drunknbass> | haha i didnt look |
| 09:24 | <hsivonen> | drunknbass: does it pass Acid2? |
| 09:24 | <drunknbass> | i have a problem with my js running b4 my image is loaded |
| 09:24 | <hsivonen> | thought it could have only limited support like IE8 |
| 09:24 | <drunknbass> | and even trying to use the onload for the image didnt help |
| 09:24 | <drunknbass> | i guess ill sort it out later.. |
| 09:25 | <hsivonen> | drunknbass: does what I said work for you in Firefox/Opera/Safari/Chrome, though? |
| 09:25 | <drunknbass> | yup |
| 09:25 | <drunknbass> | i actually had that before without the header |
| 09:25 | <hsivonen> | ok. good |
| 09:26 | <drunknbass> | when i added the header it gave me ilgal char errors but it was because i was using single quotes around the string |
| 09:26 | <drunknbass> | so after i changed to regular quotes and left the header in, it worked |
| 09:26 | <drunknbass> | but images still dont work on pre which was what i was trying to fix |
| 09:27 | <drunknbass> | i think i read something about the images needing to be loaded locally or something.. like from within the app bundle.. |
| 09:28 | <drunknbass> | i also get my context sizes displaying wrong in webos so i think the pre webkit is just really messed up |
| 09:29 | jgraham | wakes up , finds he has 99 new messages filtered to es-discuss, sighs |
| 09:30 | <jgraham> | (That is less than 99 messages total because I get all the IDL mesages twice but the filters aren't bright enough to sort one copy to es-discuss and one copy to public-html) |
| 10:00 | <Philip`> | drunknbass: Use image.onload to run some code once the image has loaded, or check image.complete to see if it's loaded yet, perhaps |
| 10:03 | <drunknbass> | oh i didnt know about complete |
| 10:03 | <drunknbass> | thx |
| 10:56 | <Philip`> | Has reCAPTCHA recently become awful? |
| 10:57 | <Philip`> | I seem to get <50% success rate, despite being certain I'm entering the words correctly |
| 10:57 | <Philip`> | and I don't remember that much of a problem in the past |
| 11:10 | <takkaria> | it's what happens when Google buys things |
| 11:16 | <Philip`> | Oh, Google bought reCAPTCHA? |
| 11:16 | Philip` | never heard about that |
| 11:18 | <Philip`> | I'll blame Google, then |
| 12:33 | <remysharp> | I've got a question about Web Workers - is this the right place to ask? |
| 12:36 | <jgraham> | remysharp: It's as good a place as any |
| 12:37 | <remysharp> | is there a way/flag to tell if a worker has been terminated? |
| 12:37 | <remysharp> | I can see the "closed" flag being referenced in the spec |
| 12:37 | <remysharp> | but I can't tell if it's new since FF + Safari have implemented workers |
| 12:37 | <remysharp> | i.e. I've dumped a worker variable out to Firebug and I can't see any state flags or any way to tell |
| 12:38 | <jgraham> | (Unrelated to workers) is the "Loop:" label in the "A start tag whose tag name is "li"" section of the "in body" phase of parsing on the wrong step? |
| 12:39 | <jgraham> | Otherwise why do you keep looking for a node but never do anything with it |
| 12:39 | <jgraham> | (I guess it should match the "dt" + etc. case below |
| 12:39 | <jgraham> | ) |
| 13:20 | <Sephi-Chan> | Hi |
| 13:21 | <Sephi-Chan> | I created a very simple page with HTML5 Doctype, to try embeded SVG, but it doesn't seem to work (in FF3.5 and Safari 4, both on Mac) |
| 13:21 | <Sephi-Chan> | http://pastebin.com/d709d385f |
| 13:35 | <Sephi-Chan> | Someone can explain me how to embed SVG in my HTML5 page plz ? |
| 13:36 | <Sephi-Chan> | Everything i try doesnt work :/ |
| 13:38 | <da3d> | Sephi-Chan: You need a nightly build of Firefox, and you need to enable the html5 parser in it. |
| 13:38 | <Sephi-Chan> | Oh :( |
| 13:38 | <Sephi-Chan> | So bad, i believed it was more accessible |
| 13:39 | <masinter> | the status of SVG in HTML5 is pretty fuzzy to me, isn't it in flux? |
| 13:39 | <masinter> | my impression is that the battle isn't over, you might get a different answer here tho |
| 13:39 | <da3d> | It will be, eventually, just need to wait for the browsers to be updated to support it. |
| 13:40 | <masinter> | isn't it still an ISSUE? |
| 13:41 | <Sephi-Chan> | Do you have an idea of the time for it to be available in Safari/Firefox ? Is this time in days ? weaks ? or months ? :x |
| 13:41 | <da3d> | masinter: I dunno, not really paying that much attention to it. |
| 13:42 | <Sephi-Chan> | i'm working on a webgame and i currently create a SVG map (using Raphael, to provide content for IE) and i ask for myself if using edge stuff like HTML5 is a good choice |
| 13:43 | <masinter> | sephi-chan: you know what they say about the Opera |
| 13:44 | <masinter> | sephi-chan: lots of people run IE6, and can't upgrade. do you want your game to work for them? |
| 13:45 | <Sephi-Chan> | I don't really care about IE6 and IE in general |
| 13:45 | <Sephi-Chan> | If i can support them, it's a plus |
| 13:46 | <da3d> | Sephi-Chan: No clue when Mozilla and Apple will enable SVG-in-html5 by default. |
| 13:47 | <da3d> | As for using html5... well, some of it is easily usable now (eg most new elements) or can be emulated using scripts. Some of it (eg svg-in-html5) will have to wait for newer browser versions. |
| 13:48 | <masinter> | well, wasn't the google chrome supposed to make HTML5 available for IE users? not sure if that applies to IE6 though |
| 13:50 | masinter | finds http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/ |
| 13:51 | <masinter> | "SVG support is now included in the latest version of Mozilla Firefox! " |
| 13:51 | <Sephi-Chan> | Uh :o |
| 13:51 | <masinter> | use the net, duke |
| 13:52 | <da3d> | There's a difference between supporting SVG and supporting SVG markup in html5 documents :p |
| 13:52 | <masinter> | what? |
| 13:53 | <Sephi-Chan> | Try to use embed svg in HTML (event with HTML5 doctype) and you will see that it's not supported |
| 13:53 | <masinter> | I don't get it, HTML5 is backward compatible! how can there be things that work now that will break when moving to HTML5? |
| 13:54 | <Sephi-Chan> | Uh ? How do you embed SVG now ? |
| 13:55 | <da3d> | Everyone (except IE) supports SVG using <object> or <img> (or inside the documents served as xhtml). Using SVG markup in html has never been supported before, that's the new part. |
| 13:55 | <Philip`> | The only change in HTML5 is that the text/html parser supports SVG elements |
| 13:55 | <Philip`> | (which is only implemented in experimental Firefoxes) |
| 13:55 | <Philip`> | You can always use proper XHTML, or create the SVG elements through the DOM (createElement etc) |
| 13:56 | <Philip`> | which will work in every browser |
| 13:56 | <Philip`> | (except IE obviously) |
| 13:56 | <Philip`> | or use <object> as da3d says |
| 13:56 | <Philip`> | (I think most browsers don't support SVG in <img> - maybe only Opera?) |
| 13:57 | <da3d> | Doesn't Webkit support svg in <img>, or am I misremembering? |
| 13:57 | <Sephi-Chan> | Uhuh |
| 13:57 | masinter | finds http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/embed.htm#svg |
| 13:57 | <Philip`> | I know it supports stuff like PDF in <img>, but I'm not sure about SVG |
| 13:58 | <masinter> | pdf in img doesn't sound right |
| 13:59 | <da3d> | http://support.apple.com/kb/TA25197 says "Adds support for SVG images in <img> elements and CSS images" |
| 13:59 | <Philip`> | http://philip.html5.org/demos/canvas/svg/scale.html |
| 13:59 | <Philip`> | Top-left is an SVG in <img> |
| 14:00 | <Philip`> | Seems to work in Opera (10) and Chromium (don't have Safari easily available) |
| 14:00 | <Philip`> | Doesn't work in Firefox |
| 14:00 | <Philip`> | (3.5) |
| 14:00 | <Sephi-Chan> | With Safari 4/Mac |
| 14:01 | <Philip`> | (Top-right image is the SVG scaled onto a <canvas> - Opera seems to do bitmap scaling, Chromium does vector scaling) |
| 14:01 | <Sephi-Chan> | i see a page with a bend corner and fiew code |
| 14:01 | <Sephi-Chan> | with the SVG logo |
| 14:02 | <jgraham> | Yeah. SVG in text/html is currently rather experimental. If you need HTML with inline SVG markup you have to use XHTML until HTML5 parsers are widely deployed |
| 14:03 | <jgraham> | (or use SVG as the root element and put XHTML in foreignContent I guess) |
| 14:03 | <jgraham> | So in summary: sorry :( |
| 14:03 | <Sephi-Chan> | Hmm |
| 14:04 | <Sephi-Chan> | In my case, SVG is used to draw a map (like in the board game Risk) |
| 14:04 | <Sephi-Chan> | My backend is made with Ruby on Rails, maybe i can use it to serve SVG |
| 14:05 | <Sephi-Chan> | With its nice RESTful API, maybe i can do example.com/maps/1.svg |
| 14:06 | <Sephi-Chan> | I think it's okay to use the SVG in a object with the good type |
| 14:06 | <Sephi-Chan> | No ? |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | It is wuite possible that you don't need the SVG to be inline |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | If you cn put it in an external file and then load that somehow everything will be hunky-dory |
| 14:07 | <Sephi-Chan> | hunky-dory ? I don't understand that :x (french inside) |
| 14:09 | <da3d> | Using SVG with <object> seems to be the most compatible, since it's supported everywhere except IE. |
| 14:12 | <Sephi-Chan> | And for IE ? What is the best way ? |
| 14:13 | <da3d> | Chrome Frame or some SVG plugin (dunno how well those work or how many there are though), I suppose? |
| 19:32 | Lachy | is excited! |
| 19:32 | <Lachy> | I just came up with a brilliant and most simple solution to the issues with Selectors API |
| 19:32 | Lachy | goes to spec it... |
| 19:33 | <Steve^> | talk about a cliff hanger |
| 19:34 | <Lachy> | I want it to be a surprise. :-) |
| 19:34 | <Steve^> | most likely I'll forget and never know |
| 19:42 | <Philip`> | I just came up with a brilliant and most simple solution to world peace! |
| 19:42 | <Philip`> | I'll write it down somewhere in a while |
| 19:44 | <Lachy> | haha |
| 19:44 | <Lachy> | JohnResig, yt? |
| 19:45 | <Steve^> | Lachy, just don't do a Fermat |
| 19:45 | <Lachy> | what's a Fermat? |
| 19:45 | gsnedders | faceplams |
| 19:45 | <Steve^> | Fermat was a mathematician |
| 19:45 | <gsnedders> | Lachy: Go learn your mathematicians! |
| 19:46 | <Steve^> | who wrote in the sidebar of his noteback that some property of maths could be solved with some awesome technique he came up with |
| 19:46 | <Steve^> | then he died before writing it down properly |
| 19:46 | <Lachy> | heh |
| 19:46 | <Lachy> | it's ok, I have it specced already |
| 19:46 | <gsnedders> | No, in the margin of some other spec. |
| 19:47 | <gsnedders> | s/spec/book/ |
| 19:47 | <Steve^> | and it became a huge challenge for other people to prove, they managed recently but it was brutally hard (and not his solution) |
| 19:47 | <Lachy> | well, minor a few technical details about the algorithm. But the concept is sound |
| 19:47 | <gsnedders> | You're confusing me |
| 19:47 | <gsnedders> | He wrote it in 1637, proved in 1995. |
| 19:47 | <gsnedders> | Fermat had proof when he wrote it, just never written down. |
| 19:47 | <Steve^> | *thought he had a proof |
| 19:47 | <Philip`> | I think the general consensus is that he was wrong |
| 19:48 | <gsnedders> | Well, yeah. |
| 19:48 | <Philip`> | rather than that he was cleverer than four centuries of mathematicians |
| 21:28 | <Lachy> | I checked in the new and improved solution for selectors api. http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api2/ |
| 21:29 | <Lachy> | the major changes have to do with the definition of "scoped selector string" and the ways in which that affects processing. |
| 21:31 | <Steve^> | how can something be both new and improved? |
| 21:45 | <Lachy> | Steve^, it's a new technique that is an improvement over the old technique |
| 21:45 | <Steve^> | that's what you meant, yes |
| 22:16 | <jgraham> | /me wonders if/why "<p><b></p> <p>Y" should parse differently to "<p><b></p>X<p>Y" |
| 22:16 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: ^ |
| 22:17 | <jgraham> | It seems to me that the active formatting elements should be reconstructed on either the space or the X but there are tests that suggest it doesn't happen with the space |
| 22:17 | <Hixie> | i think that changed at some point |
| 22:19 | <jgraham> | OK, I couldn't obviously see a relevant commit message |
| 22:24 | <Hixie> | if you have the time, try archeology for the line "A character token" a the top of the in-body insertion mode |
| 22:37 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: is my code out of date on that point? |
| 22:38 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Well the HTML5 live DOM viewer disagrees with html5lib but agrees with the tests |
| 22:39 | <jgraham> | But I *think* html5lib agrees with the spec |
| 22:39 | <hsivonen> | I see |
| 22:39 | <jgraham> | Unless there is a special case I am missing somewhere |
| 22:39 | <jgraham> | (which is quite likely) |
| 22:40 | <hsivonen> | I thought I'd written code that makes both space and other characters follow the same path in "in body" |
| 22:40 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: You have any thoughts about how to make the tokenizer tests JSON, like the docs claim? |
| 22:41 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Is the HTML5 live dom viewer up to date at this point? |
| 22:41 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: do you mean surrogates? |
| 22:41 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: I was thinking adding in a second form of escaping above JSON, so you can do things like U00D7FF to refer to U+D7FF (which can't occur in JSON) |
| 22:41 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: it's not up to spec |
| 22:42 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: at least </li> has changed |
| 22:42 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Is it significantly older than the version in gecko? |
| 22:42 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: and end tags before <html> |
| 22:42 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: no |
| 22:42 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Yes, and anything else that can't be represented |
| 22:43 | <hsivonen> | the only change that's in Gecko but not in the Live viewer is that Gecko no longer clones nodes |
| 22:43 | <gsnedders> | What makes \uD7FF illegal in JSON? |
| 22:43 | <hsivonen> | (that fix was long overdue) |
| 22:43 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: no, I don't know what to do about that |
| 22:44 | <hsivonen> | did JSON fall into the same trap as XML and outlaw characters according to someone's sense of Unicode aesthetics? |
| 22:44 | jgraham | optimistically changes the tests locally |
| 22:44 | <gsnedders> | JSON didn't, but to make it a subset of ECMAScript it has to be. |
| 22:45 | <gsnedders> | We can't run the html5lib tests on Ruby at all because of it |
| 22:45 | <jgraham> | With that change we are down to 2 errors, 2 failures |
| 22:45 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: :-( |
| 22:45 | <hsivonen> | having to create another escaping layer on top of JSON would suck |
| 22:46 | <jgraham> | The ruby port is somewhat dead in the water |
| 22:46 | <gsnedders> | I see no alternative though :( |
| 22:46 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I want to do some stuff with it in the near future |
| 22:46 | <jgraham> | (but this problem really needs to be fixed) |
| 22:46 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Good luck with that |
| 22:47 | <gsnedders> | But yeah, I really want to get the tests running before I do anything |
