| 01:29 | <othermaciej> | abarth, Hixie: the specs themselves do not say anything about deleting the other spec from the universe |
| 01:29 | <othermaciej> | abarth, Hixie: thus, by proposing to advance both, the chair in question has sort of decided the controversy |
| 01:30 | <abarth> | yes, although that might have been before tyler and mark make their "UM and no CORS" position clear |
| 01:30 | <abarth> | i failed to refrain from posting on that thread :( |
| 01:31 | <othermaciej> | I can't even bring myself to read the latest emails right now |
| 01:32 | <othermaciej> | but I think I will personally try not to post unless I have new information to add |
| 01:46 | <AryehGregor> | roc, BTW, <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535043>;. Do you know what kind of ballpark response time I should expect? There seem to be 53 bugs with review requested from jst, some years old. |
| 01:53 | <roc> | try asking for an ETA in the bug |
| 01:54 | <AryehGregor> | Is he automatically CCed? |
| 01:54 | <roc> | no, good point |
| 01:54 | <roc> | CC him |
| 01:56 | <AryehGregor> | k, thanks. |
| 08:02 | <GPHemsley> | Is there any semantic value to @class? |
| 08:02 | <GPHemsley> | Or is it purely a connection to style? |
| 08:20 | <MikeSmith> | GPHemsley: is that a trick question? |
| 08:20 | <GPHemsley> | um... no? |
| 08:21 | <MikeSmith> | OK, it seems clear it does have semantic value |
| 08:22 | <MikeSmith> | though I wouldn't be surprised to find somebody dispute that for whatever reason |
| 08:23 | <GPHemsley> | so then it can be used (semantically) in lieu of an element that doesn't exist in the standard? |
| 08:23 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, that's part of the intent |
| 08:23 | <GPHemsley> | right, OK |
| 08:23 | <GPHemsley> | thanks |
| 08:23 | <MikeSmith> | but the semantics and style often go hand-in-hand |
| 08:23 | <GPHemsley> | well, yes and no |
| 08:24 | <MikeSmith> | that's why I qualified it with "often".. |
| 08:24 | <GPHemsley> | I mean, if something were fed a pure HTML5 document and was asked to extract the data, the styling wouldn't matter |
| 08:24 | <MikeSmith> | true that |
| 08:25 | <MikeSmith> | but on the other hand, if some part of you content means something different you often want to dislay it to users differently |
| 08:25 | <GPHemsley> | and, in that case, <var> and <span class="expression"> (for example) would hold the same weight, correct? |
| 08:25 | <MikeSmith> | no, I don't think so |
| 08:25 | <MikeSmith> | <var> has a standard, documented meaning |
| 08:26 | <MikeSmith> | class="expression" means whatever you choose it to mean, and nobody else can know for sure what you mean by it |
| 08:26 | <GPHemsley> | well, assume that the meaning of each class was documented and used standardly |
| 08:26 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 08:27 | <MikeSmith> | also, all that said, you could also misuse <var> in a way that's at odd with with its standard meaning |
| 08:27 | <GPHemsley> | right |
| 08:28 | <GPHemsley> | this situation, however, assumes that whatever is doing the processing knows what everything means and expects everything to be used as defined |
| 08:28 | <GPHemsley> | so it expects <var> to be used correctly |
| 08:29 | <GPHemsley> | (and also <span class="expression">) |
| 08:32 | <GPHemsley> | ...you can't nest <span>s? |
| 08:34 | <GPHemsley> | or Firefox can't... o_0 |
| 08:41 | <GPHemsley> | oh, nope, my mistake |
| 08:41 | GPHemsley | is an idiot |
| 08:45 | <GPHemsley> | (overzealous find and replace) |
| 09:49 | <gsnedders> | Weee… Opera 10.50 pre-alpha shipped. |
| 09:49 | <gsnedders> | </mindlessspam> |
| 09:55 | <erlehmann> | gsnedders, AV-enabled? |
| 10:01 | <gsnedders> | erlehmann: Coming soon |
| 10:02 | erlehmann | needs more theora. :3 |
| 10:02 | <doublec> | gsnedders, new JS engine looks interesting :) |
| 10:02 | <gsnedders> | doublec: Of course, it's what I've been working on ;P |
| 10:03 | <doublec> | haha, nice. I'm hearing good stuff about it on reddit and places |
| 10:03 | <doublec> | i'll have to try my 8080 emulator on it |
| 10:36 | <hsivonen> | Does Opera give any hints on what sort of general approach or techniques they used in the new JS engine? |
| 10:38 | <Rik`> | hsivonen: http://my.opera.com/core/blog/2009/02/04/carakan ? |
| 10:38 | <hsivonen> | Rik`: thanks |
| 10:39 | hsivonen | wonders if Opera still intends to keep Futhark around for small devices |
| 10:40 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: http://my.opera.com/core/blog/2009/12/22/carakan-revisited |
| 10:40 | <hsivonen> | thanks |
| 10:42 | <jgraham> | doublec: iirc your 8080 emulator claims that we don't support canvas |
| 10:42 | <jgraham> | (so it would be nice if you would fix that :) |
| 10:47 | <jgraham> | BTW if anyone is playing with the labs build and finds a site that breaks in a likely-javascript related way and doesn't want to file a bug for some reason (e.g. laziness), please let gsnedders or I know |
| 11:17 | <Philip`> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/337 - Opera 10.50 seems quite nicely fast at that |
| 11:18 | <Philip`> | (I get about 14 million ints/sec, vs about 2 M/sec in Firefox 3.5, and approximately zero in Opera 10.10) |
| 11:21 | <gsnedders> | (Though with holidays I dunno how we'll be around) |
| 11:36 | <doublec> | jgraham: I detect for createImageData and display the message if it doesn't exist |
| 11:36 | <doublec> | jgraham: does Opera not support it? |
| 11:36 | <gsnedders> | doublec: It does |
| 11:36 | <doublec> | odd -I wonder why it fails |
| 11:47 | <Lachy> | The announcement for Selectors API being published as CR should come out some time later today |
| 11:47 | <doublec> | gsnedders: document.getElementById('screen').getContext('2d').createImageData is undefined |
| 11:48 | <doublec> | gsnedders: that's why the 8080 emulator is not running |
| 11:49 | <doublec> | gsnedders: tested in 10.50 pre-alpha using the js command line |
| 11:49 | <doublec> | gsnedders: 'screen' is a <canvas id='screen'> |
| 11:50 | <gsnedders> | doublec: Does it work in 10.10? |
| 11:50 | <doublec> | gsnedders: I'll check |
| 11:50 | <gsnedders> | doublec: Or does it work with JIT disabled? |
| 11:50 | <gsnedders> | That seems really like a normal JIT bug :) |
| 11:51 | <gsnedders> | (Namely, random things being undefined) |
| 11:51 | <doublec> | gsnedders: how do I disable the jit? |
| 11:51 | <gsnedders> | doublec: opera:config, search for JIT |
| 11:57 | <doublec> | gsnedders: doesn't work in 10.10 either |
| 11:57 | <doublec> | gsnedders: on 10.5 with jit disabled same issue |
| 11:57 | <gsnedders> | doublec: Link to the page? |
| 11:57 | <doublec> | gsnedders: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/js8080/ |
| 11:58 | <gsnedders> | Oh, apparently we don't sup[port it. |
| 11:58 | <gsnedders> | *support |
| 11:59 | <doublec> | that'll be it then :) |
| 12:05 | <erlehmann> | gsnedders, what in-joke is that with the power plants mentioned in the caveat? |
| 12:06 | <gsnedders> | huh? |
| 13:15 | <gsnedders> | First reply from uni application! A rejection! |
| 13:15 | <gsnedders> | (I suck at CS.) |
| 19:03 | <nirvdrum> | Hi. Is the validator.nu validator known to be broken in trunk? I'm get a ClassCastException when running it and before I spend too much time tracking it down, wanted to make sure others weren't already aware of it. |
| 19:09 | <nirvdrum> | Hmm . . . I found IRC logs highlighting the same issue going back to May. |
| 19:23 | <nirvdrum> | Alright. If I run "all" a second time, it works. |
| 19:23 | <nirvdrum> | Repeatable, too. |
| 19:44 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: s'ton? |
| 20:28 | <hsivonen> | nirvdrum: try rerunning python build.py localent |
| 20:30 | <nirvdrum> | hsivonen: I hadn't run localent explicitly at all. I just ran the "all" target. Re-running that fixes the problem. |
| 20:31 | <nirvdrum> | I'll see if "localent" after "all" fixes it, too, but it might be hard to tell. |
| 20:33 | <nirvdrum> | hsivonen: I don't suppose there's any way to build a WAR out of this, is there? |
| 20:33 | <hsivonen> | nirvdrum: there isn't, because I haven't needed a WAR |
| 20:34 | <nirvdrum> | I couldn't quite work out how you were serving out of jetty. Where is the web context being set up? |
| 20:35 | <hsivonen> | Main.java |
| 20:35 | <hsivonen> | in the validator svn repo |
| 20:35 | <hsivonen> | afk |
| 20:36 | <nirvdrum> | So, I guess I could write something to unpack the validator JAR and set up the WAR structure, adding in the dependencies to WEB-INF/lib. |
| 20:38 | <nirvdrum> | It'd just be handy to have a WAR because I'm already running Jetty and the CSS validator on the same machine. |
| 20:39 | <nirvdrum> | hsivonen: My other question is if I run it with th "run" target, how do you recommend detaching from the tty and capturing the pid? I could do it with nohup and some bash incantation, but I'd assume there's a cleaner way. |
| 20:49 | <nirvdrum> | hsivonen: all => localent => run still induces the CCE. |