| 00:30 | <othermaciej> | wow: http://intertwingly.net/blog/2010/03/17/Non-Draconian-XHTML |
| 00:31 | <miketaylr> | wow indeed. |
| 00:37 | <Dashiva> | Well, as mentioned in the comments, it's not actually non-draconian, it's non-error-message-displaying |
| 00:39 | <othermaciej> | I guess that is a lesser failing |
| 00:59 | <Dashiva> | http://techdirt.com/articles/20100318/1240568623.shtml |
| 00:59 | <Dashiva> | I guess software patents aren't the only problem anymore... |
| 01:07 | <TabAtkins> | Sigh. Nobody understands patents. |
| 01:07 | <TabAtkins> | I mean, okay, I can understand the jury's ruling. |
| 01:08 | <TabAtkins> | But a government-required technology *can not* be patent-encumbered. |
| 01:08 | <TabAtkins> | ARgha;sd;asldkjf;ads |
| 01:10 | <TabAtkins> | Though, wait, further details are hitting my brain. |
| 01:10 | <TabAtkins> | No, the jury is a group of unwashed illiterates. |
| 01:10 | <TabAtkins> | You can't sue a company for not putting in a non-required safety feature. |
| 01:15 | <othermaciej> | you can sue someone for negligence if you can make a case that they did not take adequate safety precautions |
| 01:15 | <othermaciej> | it doesn't matter if the safety precautions were legally mandated |
| 01:16 | <othermaciej> | I can see how this may be an odd result, but it's not because the safety feature was non-mandatory |
| 04:48 | <othermaciej> | so, only 4 of the Alexa worldwide top 20 validate as their declared doctype |
| 04:59 | <JonathanNeal> | Heyyo! |
| 05:04 | <othermaciej> | hmm |
| 05:05 | <othermaciej> | two of the Alexa top 50 are unreachable sites |
| 05:05 | <othermaciej> | I am starting to doube the accuracy of these rankings |
| 07:38 | <othermaciej> | is type="text/css" necessary or useful in HTML5? |
| 07:38 | <othermaciej> | (on <link rel="stylesheet">) |
| 07:45 | <JonathanNeal> | Heyo |
| 10:03 | <Philip`> | othermaciej: No |
| 10:03 | <Philip`> | "If the attribute is omitted, but the external resource link type has a default type defined, then the user agent must assume that the resource is of that type." |
| 10:03 | <Philip`> | "The default type for resources given by the stylesheet keyword is text/css." |
| 10:04 | <Philip`> | so it should make no difference |
| 10:29 | <scotfl> | \ |
| 13:32 | <boblet> | hey all. regarding the old acronym/abbr confusion, I thought they were to indicate an acronym (abbreviation read as a word like NATO) and an initialism (abbreviation read as individual letters like HTML) to screen readers |
| 13:32 | <boblet> | does anyone know if screen readers actually did that, or if they used some other method, like a built-in dictionary of mappings? |
| 14:04 | <Dashiva> | boblet: They were just different tags for different browsers |
| 14:04 | <Dashiva> | There was no semantic difference |
| 14:05 | <boblet> | Dashiva: aah they came out of NN vs IE then? |
| 14:05 | <boblet> | makes sense |
| 14:05 | <Dashiva> | Yeah |
| 14:06 | <lazni> | google translates "diveintomark" as if it was "dive into bookmark" |
| 14:25 | <Dashiva> | Did anyone seriously believe microsoft would not use h264 for IE9? |
| 14:29 | <Dashiva> | "We, the users, didn't decide to download Flash - we were forced to" |
| 14:29 | <Dashiva> | Because Flash obviously had 98% market penetration from day one |
| 14:32 | <boblet> | Dashiva: I think there were some hopes that they’d offer an alternative codec too, but those hopes were … hmm |
| 14:39 | <Dashiva> | boblet: naive? foolish? deluded? |
| 14:42 | <boblet> | I was thinking something less blunt… optimistic? |
| 14:43 | <boblet> | how do you say naive but with a positive meaning? |
| 14:59 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: Some people may have expected they'd use WMV instead |
| 15:00 | lazni | would pick directshow |
| 15:00 | <Philip`> | boblet: Innocent? |
| 15:01 | Philip` | can't think of a better word |
| 15:01 | <boblet> | Philip`: yeah but that has connotations too |
| 15:01 | <boblet> | hopeful/optimistic is as good as it gets huh |
| 15:01 | <Philip`> | All words have connotations :-) |
| 15:01 | <boblet> | does put Moz in a bit of a spot |
| 15:02 | <Dashiva> | I suppose you could say they 'have faith' |
| 15:02 | <boblet> | “I want to believe!” |
| 15:02 | <lazni> | http://www.onelook.com/?w=naive+without+connotation&ls=a |
| 15:57 | <JonathanNeal> | Mornin'! |
| 16:00 | <paul_irish> | 'afternoon. |
| 16:01 | <JonathanNeal> | o'h |
| 16:06 | <JonathanNeal> | I've been trying to think of the label for the main document content on a page that sits after the dock bar and before the chat bar |
| 16:09 | <JonathanNeal> | Microsoft puts their entire site in a form field. |
| 16:10 | <JonathanNeal> | Yahoo doesn't wrap all their content. |
| 16:21 | <JonathanNeal> | Analyzing some more... No wrapping divs for Drupal, ModX, or Wordpress. Joomla uses "page-holder", BBC uses "blq-main". Foxnews and msn use "wrapper", latimes, cssZen, Digg, and twitter use "container" |
| 16:21 | <JonathanNeal> | YUI uses "yui-t7" (oh very descriptive, YUI), Facebook uses "globalContainer", Alexa uses "pageContainer", MySpace uses "wrap", Google uses "main", YouTube kinda uses "baseDiv", Blogger kinda uses "body", Bing uses a TABLE "layout", Wikipedia uses "globalWrapper", |
| 16:30 | <JonathanNeal> | 456 Berea Street uses wrap, Blogger uses "home", ebay and cnn have a <div align="center">, Go has a <table align="center"> and an annoying ad, Disney has "flashcontent" and a more annoying ad, Apple has "home", Photobucket has "centeredPage", Mozilla kinda has "wrapper", Adobe kinda has "home-fma", Amazon kinda but not really has "page-wrap", PirateBay uses "browseContainer". Wow, no standard. |
| 16:37 | <JonathanNeal> | WhatWG nothin', w3c "w3c_container", jQuery "jq-siteContain", Party Poker "mainbg", Download "rb_bodyWrap", Zedo (a table), Netflix "headlessshadowwrapper", Huffington "wrapper", HP "centerContent", metacafe "PageWrapper", Vimeo "outer_wrap" (and then "inner_wrap" (and then "everything")), PaulIrish "wrap" --- and that covers all the major sites on the internet :) |
| 17:45 | <JonathanNeal> | A long, boring list of the first DIV's @ http://sandbox.thewikies.com/first-div/ |
| 18:36 | <paul_irish> | AryehGregor: based on yesterdays discussion of implementing role=document and such.... would you say that <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge;chrome=1" > would be a bad idea because things could break in ie9 vs locking in the ie8 rendering mode? |
| 19:43 | <krijnh> | MikeSmith: a sewing machine? ;) |
| 19:43 | <lazni> | http://www.openclipart.org/image/800px/svg_to_png/GMcGlinn_cloud_Rainbow.png does this logo work for "free spectrum"? |
| 19:57 | <Philip`> | Is there a known problem with sending content-encoding:gzip .oga files to Chrome? |
| 19:57 | Philip` | appears to get no playback unless he disables compression |
| 19:57 | <krijn> | MikeSmith: I think my hdd is about to die or something |
| 20:24 | krijn | starts implementing some sort of cache for /irc-logs/ |
| 20:42 | <roc> | sending gzipped .oga is a bad idea in general |
| 20:42 | <roc> | I expect you won't get useful extra compression, everyone will do extra work, and you won't be able to seek |
| 20:44 | <Philip`> | I'm just surprised that it seems to make it stop working entirely |
| 20:44 | <Philip`> | whereas gzipped MP3s work fine |
| 20:44 | <Philip`> | in Chrome |
| 20:44 | <roc> | sure, that's probably a bug |
| 20:46 | <roc> | can't say I blame them; if we have such a bug in Firefox, I wouldn't prioritize it |
| 20:52 | krijn | has a thereifixedit.com moment with the irc logs |
| 20:54 | <krijn> | For those who want to know, URLs from 2006-2009 are now cached once they are loaded, which speeds up requests afterwards |
| 20:54 | <krijn> | http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090331 for example |
| 20:54 | <krijn> | Flagging of lines is disabled for cached files |
| 20:56 | <annevk> | also highlighting? |
| 20:56 | <krijn> | Flagging is highlighting |
| 20:56 | <krijn> | Flagged lines are still flagged |
| 20:56 | <annevk> | cookie-based highlighting |
| 20:57 | <krijn> | You just can't flag any new lines |
| 20:57 | <krijn> | Ow, crap |
| 20:57 | <krijn> | Good point |
| 20:57 | <annevk> | might make sense to implement that client-side regardless |
| 20:57 | <krijn> | Indeed |
| 20:57 | <krijn> | Now the cached files include who requested it, nice |
| 20:57 | <krijn> | <-- stupid |
| 20:58 | <krijn> | Is the nick highlighting thing even useful in older files? |
| 20:59 | <annevk> | why wouldn't it be? |
| 20:59 | <krijn> | I don't know, I never use it :) |
| 21:00 | lazni | suggests scrapping it altogether; people with big egos can use greasemonkey |
| 21:00 | <krijn> | Or just a user stylesheet |
| 21:01 | <krijn> | The only thing the cookie thing does is add some extra css |
| 21:01 | <lazni> | how would USS work without bloating the page with classes? |
| 21:01 | <lazni> | nvm, offtopic from caching |
| 21:02 | <krijn> | Ah, it's not only CSS |
| 21:05 | <annevk> | krijn, it highlights lines of people addressing you; it's useful when you weren't available or connected |
| 21:05 | <krijn> | Ow, wow, the nicks database contains 16000 records |
| 21:05 | <krijn> | Fu spammers! |
| 21:06 | <annevk> | nog een rede voor client-side :) |
| 21:06 | <annevk> | je zou met localStorage kunnen gaan spelen |
| 21:06 | <annevk> | kan ik ook voor html5.org gaan doen |
| 21:07 | <krijn> | Of het probleem verplaatsen |
| 21:07 | <krijn> | Waardoor het een heel stuk simpeler wordt |
| 21:07 | <krijn> | nicks db droppen |
| 21:07 | <krijn> | <li id="l-29" _a="Hixie" _r="christ"><a href="#l-29">#</a> [00:21] <Hixie> christ, i have a two-line testcase for mutation events and three browsers and they ALL DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT <span> </span></li> |
| 21:07 | <krijn> | lol |
| 21:08 | <krijn> | <li id="l-54" _a="annevk3" _r="true"><a href="#l-54">#</a> [00:57] <annevk3> true, I rather not bug him about ES gossip though :) <span> </span></li> |
| 21:08 | <krijn> | Okay, not that great |
| 21:08 | <krijn> | But great enough |
| 21:08 | <annevk> | dat kan ook nog, maar is het niet simpeler om zoiets met JS te doen? |
| 21:10 | <krijn> | Dat kan nu dus |
| 21:10 | <krijn> | Of ja, kan sowieso |
| 21:10 | <krijn> | Nu kan een user stylesheet iig ook |
| 21:10 | <lazni> | what's _r? |
| 21:11 | <krijn> | Reply to |
| 21:11 | <krijn> | Or something |
| 21:11 | <krijn> | _a is Author |
| 21:16 | <krijn> | Zo dan |
| 21:16 | <krijn> | I mean, There, I fixed it |
| 21:19 | <lazni> | does the nick highlight instruction have to be so urgent-looking? |
| 21:19 | <krijn> | Nope, removed |
| 21:22 | <lazni> | there's no CSS like text-transform: sentence-case, eh? |
| 21:28 | <krijn> | Hmm, only one problem |
| 21:28 | <krijn> | If people load an old log, it is immediately cached |
| 21:29 | <krijn> | So the flagging of lines doesn't work anyway.. |
| 21:29 | <lazni> | krijn: s/Options/Highlight/ |
| 21:29 | <lazni> | I thought you don't want to change old line flagging |
| 21:32 | <krijn> | Fixed |
| 21:32 | <krijn> | Nog flagging possibilities in 2009 and earlier |
| 21:32 | <krijn> | What a shame |
| 21:33 | <krijn> | *No |
| 21:33 | <Dashiva> | If each class had an id, the flagging could be done purely css without having to change the cached html |
| 21:33 | <Dashiva> | *each line |
| 21:33 | <krijn> | And then constantly include a new CSS file? |
| 21:33 | <krijn> | Hmm |
| 21:34 | <krijn> | There are 15000 flagged lines.. You guys have to start typing less interesting stuff! |
| 21:36 | <Dashiva> | Is it still running on your sewing machine? |
| 21:36 | <krijn> | Yes |
| 21:36 | <krijn> | It is in a clothing shop, so that does make sense :) |
| 21:40 | <Dashiva> | Maybe we could upgrade to a 286 or something |
| 21:40 | <JonathanNeal> | Please stand by for a few moments. Our database system is currently scaling up to meet the demand of a recent surge in traffic. The site should be operational again in a few minutes. |
| 21:40 | <JonathanNeal> | "No, we're not down, we're just .... we're SCALING YES THAT'S IT |
| 22:26 | <MikeSmith> | krijn: well, I figured it either had to be a sewing machine or Nintendo DS |
| 22:26 | <krijn> | Heh |
| 22:27 | <krijn> | I hope it's a bit better now |
| 22:39 | <MikeSmith> | krijn: yeah, it does definitely seem better |
| 22:39 | <krijn> | The index is still pretty slow |
| 22:41 | <lazni> | http://tsung.erlang-projects.org/ you can stress test it to get numbers |
| 22:41 | <MikeSmith> | I don't usually use the index |
| 23:26 | <lazni> | the Internet will be, err, transparent. Which, I like to think, is kind of fitting for the information network that interprets censorship as damage and routes around it… http://www.daniweb.com/news/post972308.html |
| 23:36 | <Dashiva> | I wonder if what the correlation (postive, negative, insignificant) is between people who support D.E. and people who think the no-standards wild-west internet of the past was a good idea |
| 23:36 | <Dashiva> | -if |
| 23:38 | <lazni> | DE? |
| 23:38 | <Dashiva> | Distributed extensibility |
| 23:55 | <othermaciej> | Dashiva: you'd have to consider the control group for that experiment |
| 23:55 | <othermaciej> | is any person who is reasonably aware of standards likely to hold the view that "the no-standards wild-west internet of the past was a good idea"? |
| 23:56 | <Dashiva> | I would think the answer is 'no' |
| 23:57 | <Dashiva> | But that was also a perfect example of distributed extensibility |
