| 00:38 | <kennyluck> | Firefox does have this triple store implementation. Just wonder how old it is. |
| 00:39 | <kennyluck> | I missed the discussion I should have joined :( |
| 01:53 | <JonathanNeal> | Woot |
| 01:53 | <JonathanNeal> | http://sandbox.thewikies.com/createElement/ |
| 01:53 | <JonathanNeal> | vs http://sandbox.thewikies.com/createElement/before.html |
| 01:54 | <TabAtkins> | Should I be looking at that in IE? |
| 01:56 | <TabAtkins> | Also: your loop syntax is so horrible. ;_; I really don't understand why you value a microsecond or two over the clarity of a for loop. |
| 01:58 | <TabAtkins> | Otherwise, though, seems very clever. I approve. |
| 02:03 | <TabAtkins> | Argh, I'm introducing too much abstraction here, but I'm not sure of the best way to collapse one of the abstraction levels. >_< |
| 02:03 | <TabAtkins> | Anytime you have to introduce *two* new levels of abstract directional terminology, you're doing something wrong. |
| 03:23 | <jlebar> | Hixie, Is there a reason that offline manifests don't treat form feed characters (and other unicode space characters) as whitespace? |
| 03:24 | <jlebar> | e.g. step 17 in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/offline.html#writing-cache-manifests |
| 03:24 | <annevk> | consistency |
| 03:24 | <jlebar> | annevk, with what? |
| 03:24 | <annevk> | text/plain, HTML, CSS, etc.? |
| 03:25 | <jlebar> | the split on spaces algorithm does consider ff to be whitespace. |
| 03:26 | <jlebar> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/common-microsyntaxes.html#skip-whitespace |
| 03:26 | <annevk> | sure, but newlines are always just CR and LF or CRLF |
| 03:27 | <jlebar> | Right. But the step in the algorithm I first mentioned is stripping whitespace off the end of a line. |
| 03:29 | <annevk> | aah I see now |
| 03:29 | <annevk> | sorry |
| 03:30 | <jlebar> | np |
| 03:30 | <annevk> | seems like a bug of some sorts |
| 03:30 | <jlebar> | Perhaps. But Hixie may have some grand plan. He often does. :) |
| 03:32 | <annevk> | maybe he tries to keep FF out of cache manifests but the inconsistency seems confusing |
| 07:32 | <Hixie> | anyone remember what the term is for a block's overall bidi direction? |
| 07:35 | <annevk> | base writing direction of blocks? |
| 07:35 | <annevk> | (comes from a google search) |
| 07:35 | <Hixie> | doesn't sound right |
| 07:36 | <Hixie> | i mean the post-bidi-algorithm direction |
| 07:36 | <Hixie> | the one that decides whether 'text-align:start' is left or right |
| 07:37 | <Hixie> | wait, text-align is dependent on 'start', not on the actual direction? |
| 07:37 | <Hixie> | er, on 'direction', i mean, not 'start' |
| 07:37 | <annevk> | dunno, sorry |
| 07:38 | <annevk> | haven't followed that stuff recently since in discussions vertical text is added on top of it which makes my brain explode (or at least wander off) |
| 07:38 | <Hixie> | i guess i mean the value that decides whether a "." at the end of the string goes to the left or the right in the rendering |
| 07:41 | <Hixie> | looks like i mean the direction of the character found in the bidi algorithm step P2 |
| 07:42 | <Hixie> | which seems to be called the "paragraph direction" |
| 07:43 | <Hixie> | ah, the paragraph embedding level |
| 07:43 | <Hixie> | there we go |
| 07:45 | <Hixie> | man it's been so long since i've worked on bidi stuff |
| 07:49 | <Hixie> | annevk: yeah, bidi spec says it's sometimes called the "base direction", thanks |
| 07:53 | <annevk> | what are you working on btw? there's no open bidi issues afaict (apart from the unfinished i18n document I guess) |
| 07:55 | <tagawa> | hello! |
| 07:55 | <annevk> | hey tagawa :) |
| 07:55 | <tagawa> | (sorry, just testing) |
| 07:56 | <Hixie> | annevk: positioning of subtitles |
| 07:58 | <annevk> | ah right, forgot about captioning |
| 07:58 | <annevk> | o_O |
| 07:58 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 09:14 | <nessy> | good that somebody with knowledge looks at i18n issues for subtitles! |
| 09:42 | <JonathanNeal> | Updated http://sandbox.thewikies.com/createElement/before.html and http://sandbox.thewikies.com/createElement/ to include multiple libraries working with html5 elements successfully. |
| 09:44 | <jgraham> | JonathanNeal: Which code is the code that you actually wrote? |
| 09:44 | <jgraham> | i.e. what should I be looking at? |
| 09:47 | <JonathanNeal> | I wrote the tests, and I wrote the "shimproof" script. |
| 09:47 | <JonathanNeal> | It is an evil script that proves a point, but beyond that, it should not be used. Rather, it should be implemented into js libraries. |
| 09:47 | <jgraham> | You know it would be friendly to include a non-minimised version if you want people to read it :) |
| 09:48 | <JonathanNeal> | I thought shimproof.min.js made it obvious, but sure http://sandbox.thewikies.com/createElement/shimproof.js |
| 09:48 | <JonathanNeal> | It's just an experiment :D |
| 09:49 | jgraham | wonders if he should propose a way of accessing the AST from javascript to TC39 so that it is easy to implemnt pretty-printers |
| 09:49 | <jgraham> | (as well as all sorts of other exciting things) |
| 09:49 | <jgraham> | (I guess they would hate it though) |
| 09:52 | <Philip`> | Why do you need a standardised API for implementing pretty-printers? |
| 09:52 | <Philip`> | Isn't it fine to just have a standalone pretty-printing tool that uses private APIs of a specific implementation? |
| 09:55 | <jgraham> | Philip`: I don't really. But it's not like there are lots of existing implementations that expose private APIs to do what I want either |
| 09:56 | <Philip`> | Getting an implementation to expose a private API sounds like far less effort than getting every implementation to expose a public API |
| 09:57 | <jgraham> | It's really unclear that that is true :) |
| 09:58 | <jgraham> | Also I guess it would be nice if you don't need java in order to use most existing minifiers |
| 09:58 | <jgraham> | *didn't |
| 09:59 | <Philip`> | How can it not be true? The public API is as much effort as doing the private API multiplied by the number of implementations, plus the cost of coordination |
| 10:00 | <jgraham> | Because the cost to me isn't the implementation cost it is the cost of convincing people |
| 10:00 | <Philip`> | I was assuming you weren't being so selfish as to only consider the cost to yourself ;-) |
| 10:01 | <Philip`> | (Given the apparent pain and suffering involved with SpiderMonkey's decompiler, I doubt implementors want to do much more of that kind of thing - computing and storing perfect lossless ASTs seems to conflict with optimisation goals, and deriving an AST from more optimised data structures is hard) |
| 10:03 | <jgraham> | JonathanNeal: Why the use of the foo[constant] syntax everywhere rather than foo.constant? The latter is more readable and, at least in some modern engines, more performant (IE might be different of course) |
| 10:04 | <JonathanNeal> | Just to make the script under 1k minified |
| 10:04 | <JonathanNeal> | It doesn't really matter. |
| 10:06 | <Dashiva> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHrTE-PLAsc&feature=related#t=6m20s |
| 10:07 | <Dashiva> | I wonder if you can justify subtitling something people wouldn't normally be able to hear properly anyway |
| 10:23 | <webben> | Dashiva: Sure. TV often does that when voices are hard to hear for some reason (e.g. bad recording). |
| 10:41 | <Philip`> | (It's interesting to see when TV shows consider English-speaking people to have a sufficiently peculiar accent that they have to be subtitled) |
| 10:43 | <Philip`> | (e.g. it seems Americans sometimes find Scottish accents tricky) |
| 12:12 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: There's a funny video like that |
| 12:12 | <Dashiva> | http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3084g_newsreportfromiraq_fun |
| 12:26 | <hsivonen> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video doesn't seem to conform to Wikipedia policies |
| 12:27 | <hsivonen> | lots of [citation needed] and [weasel words] missing there |
| 12:27 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: I like how the subtitles get completely obscured by the popup advert |
| 12:33 | <mr_daniel> | I wonder where the 'dblclick' event is specified? I just read the DOM Level 2 Events recommendation, specifically the mouse events. The 'dblclick' event is not described: http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-MouseEvent |
| 12:34 | <mr_daniel> | but on the other hand the wikipedia article about DOM Level 2 Events states that there is a 'dblclick' event http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOM_events#HTML_events |
| 12:35 | <mr_daniel> | so where does the 'dblclick' event come from? Is it supported by all browsers, which support DOM Level 2 Events? Or should I avoid the use of the 'dblclick' event? |
| 12:48 | <nessy> | Dashiva - hehe - I really enjoyed that video ;) |
| 13:31 | <Henrik`G> | hey peoples i have a box with links of latest posts in my sidebar |
| 13:31 | <Henrik`G> | and i am wondering if it is a section or a div would be the best use |
| 13:31 | <Henrik`G> | my sense says section because it starts with a header and then th ul |
| 13:31 | <Henrik`G> | the |
| 15:22 | <ray> | hehe, [[deep pockets]] |
| 17:40 | <Dashiva> | I think Dean needs a timeout... |