| 00:00 | <Rik`> | the only reference I could find on www-style is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0028.html |
| 00:01 | <Rik`> | that's my point exactly : seeing it in a lot of preprocessors means there is a real need |
| 00:22 | <dbaron> | annevk, TabAtkins, I did start writing up definitions of how intrinsic sizing works in http://dbaron.org/css/intrinsic/ , but I didn't get all that far |
| 00:22 | <TabAtkins> | Yay dbaron! Now just get further and we'll publish that bad boy. |
| 00:23 | <roc> | There are various issues with Firebug |
| 00:23 | <roc> | since it doesn't live in mozilla-central, it's hard to have automated tests that test it all the time |
| 00:24 | <roc> | because it needs to run with older versions of Firefox, the Firebug devs have a tendency to hack around platform bugs/limitations rather than just fix them |
| 00:25 | <dbaron> | I think the solution is dropping the "need" to run with older versions and evolve the two together, but anyway... |
| 00:56 | <kangax> | Has anyone noticed any regressions in canvas rendering in latest chrome (5.x) and webkit nightlies? Doesn't happen in Safari 4.x |
| 02:36 | <MikeSmithX> | boblet: revised flowchart looks great |
| 02:45 | <MikeSmith> | aboodman: about Grant Simpon's comment on the "Installable web apps" thread, maybe something like "dockable web apps" would be a better term |
| 02:46 | MikeSmith | tries to think of better synonyms for "dockable" |
| 02:50 | <karlcow> | MikeSmith: booglable web apps? |
| 03:03 | <wirepair> | persistent web apps? ;> |
| 03:04 | <MikeSmith> | I think "persistent" has the same risk of confusion as "installable" |
| 03:05 | <wirepair> | true ;/ |
| 03:05 | <wirepair> | that's a tricky one |
| 03:06 | <karlcow> | :) |
| 03:08 | <MikeSmith> | I do like "booglable" though |
| 03:08 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: you should trademark that |
| 03:08 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=booglable&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 |
| 03:08 | <karlcow> | hehe |
| 03:09 | <karlcow> | No match for "BOOGLABLE.COM". |
| 03:09 | <karlcow> | >>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 26 May 2010 02:14:16 UTC <<< |
| 03:10 | <MikeSmith> | close enough to "buggerable" |
| 03:10 | <MikeSmith> | maybe too close for comfort |
| 03:11 | <boblet> | i was thinking it was French for booger-able |
| 03:11 | <boblet> | stuff always sounds better in French |
| 03:11 | <boblet> | MikeSmith: thanks for your feedback on the flowchart yo |
| 03:12 | MikeSmith | hopes that some of this will show up in the next round of random quotes from #whatwg on the #hybi list |
| 03:12 | <boblet> | heh |
| 03:12 | <MikeSmith> | boblet: cheers |
| 03:12 | <MikeSmith> | gotta drop off |
| 03:12 | <MikeSmith> | bbiab |
| 09:14 | <annevk> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010May/0504.html -- makes sense to me. Anyone here thinks the callback should not become a simple boolean? |
| 09:25 | <annevk> | #whatwg has spoken -- BooleanCallback it is for now :p |
| 11:01 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: java.lang.ClassCastException: org.xml.sax.InputSource cannot be cast to nu.validator.xml.TypedInputSource when starting validator.nu |
| 11:02 | <jgraham> | Did I do something obvious wrong? |
| 11:20 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: no, you didn't. that's the #1 V.nu local use FAQ |
| 11:20 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: have you tried rerunning python build/build.py localent? |
| 11:27 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: There is an FAQ? I should have checked, really... |
| 11:34 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: running that didn't make any difference |
| 11:34 | <jgraham> | (where is the FAQ?) |
| 11:37 | <jgraham> | Oh it works now |
| 11:37 | <jgraham> | No idea if I changed anything |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: nothing changed -- the problem is that the build always fails with that message the first time you run it |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | from a fresh checkout |
| 12:00 | <jgraham> | Ummm.... |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | running the build a second time fixes it |
| 12:01 | <MikeSmith> | that rebuilds the necessary localent stuff |
| 12:01 | <MikeSmith> | it's definitely something that should be changed in the build file |
| 12:01 | <jgraham> | Ah, OK |
| 12:02 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith, hsivonen: thanks for the help |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | I guess we could work around it for now by tweaking the build file to cause the build to be run twice the first time you check out |
| 12:04 | <sid__> | hi i wanted to ask about webstorage in HTML5.. When we use the anonymous functions in the callback like executeSql i think I am facing there are some scope related problems while setting variables ... does any one know how to safely set the scope of local variables from inside of anonymous functions? |
| 12:04 | <sid__> | am new to js... |
| 12:06 | <jgraham> | sid__: Possibly you just need to use "var foo = bar" rather than "foo = bar". Otherwise I don't understand the question |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | using the var statement should help |
| 12:06 | <jgraham> | Javascript is so awesome. How could making variables lobal by default possibly go wrong? |
| 12:07 | <jgraham> | *global |
| 12:07 | Philip` | finds function-scoping much more annoying than default-global |
| 12:07 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: At least ECMAScript doesn't ahve that behaviour inherently |
| 12:07 | <jgraham> | As opposed to block scoping? |
| 12:07 | <Philip`> | Yes |
| 12:07 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Huh? |
| 12:08 | <gsnedders> | Most (all?) ES shells will throw ReferenceError if you do (function(){foo=1;})(); |
| 12:09 | <Philip`> | (since I want to do "for (var i = 0; i < 4; ++i) setTimeout(function() { alert(i) }, 100)" etc, instead of having to write it more like "for (var i = 0; i < 4; ++i) (function(i){setTimeout(function() { alert(i) }, 100)})(i)") |
| 12:10 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: No they won't |
| 12:10 | gsnedders | wonders what he's misremebering |
| 12:10 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: They way that variablke scoping works in ECMAScript? |
| 12:11 | <sid__> | http://pastebin.com/n8Yk4fQ6 |
| 12:11 | <sid__> | hi here is an example |
| 12:11 | <sid__> | the variable var1 |
| 12:11 | <jgraham> | Philip`: That is a pretty special case |
| 12:11 | <sid__> | is not getting set... |
| 12:11 | <jgraham> | Philip`: (although I don't disagree) |
| 12:13 | <sid__> | jgraham: one simple way would be to make a class for call backs and set the variables to fetch from there... but is there a simpler way? |
| 12:13 | <Philip`> | jgraham: I encountered it several times before understanding what the problem really was |
| 12:14 | <Philip`> | mostly when doing stuff like dynamically creating lots of scripted buttons |
| 12:14 | <jgraham> | Philip`: Ah, I have never done that |
| 12:15 | <sid__> | Is this all about understanding of closures? |
| 12:16 | <jgraham> | sid__: I assume your problem is that the callback is async so it hasn't been run when the function returns |
| 12:16 | <jgraham> | (the closure stuff looks fine) |
| 12:17 | <sid__> | jgraham: So how to solve this? |
| 12:17 | <jgraham> | sid__: I don't know what you are actually trying to achieve |
| 12:17 | <jgraham> | But you don't want to block on an SQL query running |
| 12:18 | <sid__> | well i am trying to return a result set to a calling function... |
| 12:18 | <sid__> | do i use the synchronus stuff mentioned in the w3c standard? |
| 12:19 | <Philip`> | The database API is asynchronous, so you can't return a result from it synchronously |
| 12:19 | <sid__> | Philip`: there is a section 4.4 that says someting about syncro stuff http://dev.w3.org/html5/webdatabase |
| 12:20 | <Philip`> | Oh, okay |
| 12:20 | Philip` | doesn't actually know anything about the database API |
| 12:20 | <sid__> | oh! |
| 12:21 | <sid__> | so the only way to process is supplying a call back function? |
| 12:21 | <sid__> | as in when the query completes... |
| 12:21 | <sid__> | ? |
| 12:22 | <Philip`> | Looks like the synchronous API is only available in workers, not in normal web page scripts |
| 12:22 | <Philip`> | so you have to use the async one |
| 12:22 | <sid__> | hmm |
| 12:22 | <sid__> | no but |
| 12:22 | <sid__> | i think |
| 12:22 | <Philip`> | which means using a callback function instead of a return value |
| 12:23 | <sid__> | Thnks! |
| 12:23 | <sid__> | was about to split my head over that! |
| 12:23 | <Philip`> | (It's a bit of a pain that you have to rearchitect large parts of the application when adding a single asynchronous operation into the middle of it) |
| 12:24 | <jgraham> | Philip`: It's not really clear how to avoid that pain though |
| 12:24 | <Philip`> | You can avoid it by starting with an asynchronous design |
| 12:25 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: there's no written FAQ. your question is just the most frequent question I get |
| 12:26 | <Philip`> | (or using a programming environment that makes everything asynchronous automatically) |
| 12:26 | <sid__> | Philip`: perhaps some neat design pattern |
| 12:26 | <sid__> | probably event based tuff |
| 12:26 | <sid__> | stuff* |
| 12:26 | <sid__> | Philip`: and yes i will have to rewrite my app again :( |
| 12:29 | <jgraham> | Philip`: Having a programming environement that makes everything async probably trades simplicity in simple cases for simplicity in complex cases |
| 12:29 | <jgraham> | Although it is also likely appropriate for the web |
| 12:31 | <annevk> | sid__, you could use a worker |
| 12:34 | <sid__> | annevk: let me see... |
| 12:38 | <sid__> | annevk: so the use the synchronus elements instead of the asynchronus ones...Is the solution just that simple...? |
| 12:39 | <sid__> | BTW the only difference in the API is that the call back and the error functions are not there... |
| 12:39 | <sid__> | i mean the diff between API of the async and synchro stuff... |
| 12:40 | <Philip`> | sid__: Workers can't e.g. access the DOM, so you'd have to tell a worker to do the database operations and then (asynchronously) get the results back and display them |
| 12:40 | <Philip`> | so it wouldn't necessarily be much simpler |
| 12:41 | <jgraham> | Workers seem more complex |
| 12:41 | <jgraham> | In general |
| 12:41 | <jgraham> | Does Mobile Safari even support workers? |
| 12:41 | <annevk> | sid__, the database interaction would be synchronous, but the UI interaction would be asynchronous |
| 12:41 | <jgraham> | (I assume that's what you are targetting, although I would be happy to be wrong) |
| 12:42 | <sid__> | well i am making a scrapbook plugin for Chrome...:) |
| 12:42 | <sid__> | And saving the data in the provided webstorage |
| 12:42 | <jgraham> | Ah OK |
| 12:42 | <jgraham> | Well workers are a possibility then |
| 12:42 | <sid__> | the operations are to simply store and retrieve data elements |
| 12:42 | <jgraham> | although I doubt they help much in this case |
| 12:44 | <sid__> | jgraham: I assume that i can simply return the result set *after the call completes* with workers to solve my problems... |
| 12:44 | <sid__> | Let me try\ |
| 12:44 | <sid__> | Thanks |
| 12:44 | <annevk> | hsivonen, nice email |
| 12:45 | <annevk> | I hadn't read the specific approach Google was proposing yet. I agree that the centralized solution they propose is wrong. |
| 12:53 | <hsivonen> | annevk: thanks. do you know / can you say if Opera has reconsidered the widget stuff in light of the HTML5 app cache? |
| 12:54 | <hsivonen> | that is, if Opera were starting without a widget legacy, would there still be good reasons to do widgets instead of pinning stuff to HTML5 app cache? |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | opinions vary :) |
| 12:55 | <hsivonen> | annevk: I see |
| 12:59 | <annevk> | you can see some of them on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010AprJun/ "[widgets] Zip vs GZip Tar" |
| 13:09 | <Lachy> | Widgets make some sense for a limited set of use cases. There are still some things that widgets can do that web apps and app cache currently can't do well |
| 13:10 | <jgraham> | sid__: Why do you need workers to do that? |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | oh hey, tantek works for Mozilla now, cool |
| 15:31 | <Peter`> | Just read Chris Wilson's tweet about it |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | same here :) |
| 15:40 | gsnedders | saw arun's |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | http://arunranga.com/blog/2010/05/tantek-celik-working-with-mozilla/ lets hope he does figure out those form controls |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | though last time I talked about it with tantek he described it as a solved problem; hopefully that changed :) |
| 15:46 | <Peter`> | A really small comment about http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ : the footer's background colour (blue) is exactly the same as the anchor-colour (Sam Ruby and Michael(tm) Smith), making these unreadable without selecting them |
| 15:48 | <Peter`> | I probably have to e-mail that to someone (though it's rather non-important) |
| 15:49 | <jgraham> | Peter`: Dunno who has access to that; maybe MikeSmith or othermaciej |
| 15:55 | <annevk> | yeah bug mike |
| 15:56 | <jgraham> | annevk: I see yo have discovered the 60s :) |
| 15:56 | <jgraham> | Actually 50s |
| 15:58 | <annevk> | jgraham, making my way back in time, ever so slowly |
| 15:59 | <annevk> | I really like that quote, still have to finish part of the book though |
| 16:01 | <jgraham> | annevk: I have never quite got into Kerouac; I mean I read On The Road and then tried Big Sur but sort of got fed up with the wall of text thing |
| 16:39 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, tantek wants to work on flexbox too. Interesting. |
| 16:39 | <TabAtkins> | I'd better get some time with him, then. |
| 16:42 | <AryehGregor> | Note to self: when Mozilla blog says "(can freeze your browser)", it means it. |
| 16:43 | <AryehGregor> | It froze half my tabs in Chrome. |
| 16:43 | <AryehGregor> | I'm impressed. |
| 17:05 | <zcorpan_> | yay benchmark: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/05/better-performance-with-lazy-frame-construction/ opera 10.54: 2740ms/113ms, minefield: 1966ms/194ms, chrome dev: 80631ms/86ms |
| 17:13 | <AryehGregor> | Oh, so you're saying it wasn't actually frozen, just spending 80 s doing the computation? |
| 17:13 | <AryehGregor> | Oh well. |
| 17:14 | <zcorpan_> | seems so |
| 17:17 | <annevk> | whoa, we should fix layout |
| 17:17 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: we're not horribly slow like chrome |
| 17:17 | <zcorpan_> | but clearly it can be optimized |
| 17:19 | <annevk> | oh wait, got the first number wrong |
| 17:20 | <AryehGregor> | Chrome is amazingly terrible. How real-world is this benchmark, I wonder? |
| 17:21 | <annevk> | zcorpan_, waiting for the day that layout is 10x faster |
| 17:21 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: yeah, annoying javascript gets all the benchmark attention |
| 17:23 | <zcorpan_> | s/benchmark/optimization/ |
| 17:45 | <jgraham> | zcorpan_: Easy to measure? |
| 17:45 | <jgraham> | I mean as a reason that js gets all the attention |
| 17:46 | <jgraham> | Although it is really important for e.g. canvas games |
| 18:30 | <annevk> | bit of shame we called it "CACHE MANIFEST" |
| 18:31 | <annevk> | would be kind of natural to use that file for application data |
| 18:32 | <annevk> | though I guess we could just ignore the name and all |
| 18:50 | <othermaciej> | WebKit can actually do lazy construction of render objects so I wonder why that benchmark is slow |
| 18:52 | <gsnedders> | othermaciej: Because it's not actually doing it? |
| 18:53 | <othermaciej> | gsnedders: my guess would be that something else is pathologically slow but I could be wrong |
| 18:55 | <othermaciej> | I don't think there is acttually an element with id="lastchild" in the document |
| 18:56 | <othermaciej> | I bet what happens is our getElementById is slow when no element with that id is present, or something like that |
| 18:57 | <othermaciej> | so container.insertBefore(div, lastchild) ends up being just a funny way to say container.append(div) |
| 18:57 | <AryehGregor> | Maybe it's the if (/AppleWebKit/.test(navigator.userAgent)) { for (i = 0; i < 1000000000; i++); } part that does it. |
| 18:58 | <othermaciej> | :-p |
| 19:29 | <AryehGregor> | That was exciting. |
| 19:29 | <AryehGregor> | This is why I use Linux! |
| 19:29 | <AryehGregor> | First my mouse cursor disappeared. |
| 19:29 | <AryehGregor> | It seems like it might be a video driver issue, according to posts I read on the forums, and no one had any fixes, but rebooting was a workaround. |
| 19:29 | <AryehGregor> | So then I tried restarting X. |
| 19:29 | <AryehGregor> | This just shut my monitors off. |
| 19:30 | <AryehGregor> | Then I tried rebooting. |
| 19:30 | <AryehGregor> | To an old kernel. |
| 19:30 | <AryehGregor> | But it seems my 10.04 userspace doesn't like the 9.10 kernel, because it gave me this cool effect of only using the top half of one of my monitors, with the bottom half being noise, and attempts to change the resolution resulting in even crazier effects. |
| 19:30 | <AryehGregor> | So I rebooted again. |
| 19:31 | <AryehGregor> | And now it works, for now. |
| 19:31 | <AryehGregor> | <3 Ubuntu. |
| 19:55 | <appden> | hello |
| 19:56 | <appden> | the svn url on http://syntax.whattf.org/ is dead wrong |
| 19:56 | <appden> | I somehow found it and mirrored the repo to github, if anyone prefers seeing it there |
| 19:56 | <appden> | http://github.com/appden/html5-syntax |
| 19:56 | <annevk> | hsivonen, ^^ |
| 20:11 | <jgraham> | """A "fika" is a Swedish word for an ambiguous meeting that may or may not be a date""" huh |
| 20:12 | <jgraham> | Either I misunderstood or we have office dates once a week |
| 20:13 | <jgraham> | (actually that definition is wrong, but I don't want to disappoint the people who think that the only topic in this channel is Swedish translation) |
| 20:17 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Also, your missing context. |
| 20:18 | <gsnedders> | (That quote is from <http://kommissariecuriosa.blogspot.com/2005/11/swedish-mating-and-dating.html>;) |
| 20:19 | <gsnedders> | s/your/you're/ |
| 20:21 | <annevk> | lol |
| 20:21 | <gsnedders> | (That post is absolutely brilliant. Do read it.) |
| 20:21 | <annevk> | just did |
| 20:22 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Yeah, the blog does go on to say that the definition is wrong |
| 20:22 | <gsnedders> | It's proof the plan of some to get me engaged before I leave Opera is doomed to fail. There's simply not enough time. |
| 20:22 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Read in the comments. It doesn't have to be like that |
| 20:23 | <jgraham> | Also I know some pretty hardcore Christians so if you got them drunk enough to get them knocked up then you might get a shotgun wedding |
| 20:23 | gsnedders | didn't read many comments earlier, as he was trying to work... |
| 20:24 | <jgraham> | Although I don't really endorse that as a plan |
| 20:24 | <erlehmann> | gsnedders, this is an absurdist play, right ? |
| 20:24 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Well, it's closer to what I described as the normal Scottish dating pattern earlier |
| 20:24 | <gsnedders> | erlehmann: Absurdity? That's Sweden. |
| 20:25 | <erlehmann> | and thus i propose: NO MORE SWEDEN |
| 20:25 | <erlehmann> | to make the world mundane again ! |
| 20:25 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: That is, get stupendiously drunk, sleep together, then the man calls the girl out for a date, and that's about it. |
| 20:25 | <annevk> | the world needs Sweden |
| 20:26 | <annevk> | keeps the IETF at bay :p |
| 20:27 | <erlehmann> | also, "dates" are weird. i once went out with an american gal and she had difficulties to comprehend the "split the bill" part. also, she smoked. but on the plus side, she moved whenever the wind was blowing the smoke in my direction, huh ? |
| 20:27 | <gsnedders> | "Come here I think you're beautiful/I think you're beautiful, beautiful/Some kind of stranger come inside" |
| 20:27 | <TabAtkins> | I had to give up on a girl when I learned she was a smoker. :/ |
| 20:28 | <gsnedders> | erlehmann: Americans are weird. |
| 20:28 | <AryehGregor> | I still maintain that Orthodox Jews have it best. Someone sets you up, and both parties are very clear that they're only looking for marriage. Thus two people will rarely have to date for more than a few weeks. None of this angst about what the exact status is. |
| 20:28 | <erlehmann> | annevk, charles stross should write a science fiction story where the WHATWG takes over government business after a major disaster, due to some laws refering (!) to HTML standards :P |
| 20:28 | <TabAtkins> | But yeah, american dates are either (1) paid for by the guy, if he asked the girl out, or (2) *maybe* split, if the girl asked the guy out. |
| 20:29 | <AryehGregor> | I laugh at all the people who spend their teenage years agonizing over their girlfriend/boyfriend. |
| 20:29 | <TabAtkins> | Something like a movie is easier to split, but food usually isn't. |
| 20:29 | <erlehmann> | TabAtkins, i once kissed a friend just right after she was having a cigarette, just to see how it is. awful, as expected — but the smell went away after we both drank more wine ;) |
| 20:29 | <jgraham> | AryehGregor: That sounds like many other systems |
| 20:29 | <AryehGregor> | Also Christmas. It sounds like it would be horrible to have to think of presents to give to everyone you know. |
| 20:29 | <gsnedders> | AryehGregor: Well, I was apparently meant to go to aerobics this evening to meet some girl. I said no. :P |
| 20:29 | <erlehmann> | AryehGregor, I laugh at all people. period. |
| 20:29 | <TabAtkins> | AryehGregor: That's why they invented gift cards |
| 20:29 | <jgraham> | AryehGregor: I hardly give presents to anyone |
| 20:29 | <AryehGregor> | erlehmann, excellent policy. |
| 20:30 | <jgraham> | I don't think I am particularly mean |
| 20:30 | AryehGregor | probably also would hardly give presents to everyone, but doesn't even have to worry about that. |
| 20:30 | gsnedders | certainly didn't give jgraham for Christmas |
| 20:30 | <gsnedders> | *anything for Christmas |
| 20:30 | <TabAtkins> | Also: I only give gifts to my wife, brothers, parents, and then one extra person in the family, chosen at thanksgiving (we all draw names from a hat) |
| 20:30 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: I'm really not yours to give away |
| 20:30 | <AryehGregor> | Of course, celebrating a totally different set of holidays from everyone else around you is a real pain. Part of why I'm thinking of moving to Israel. |
| 20:30 | <erlehmann> | TabAtkins, food is easy to split. here in berlin, you get asked that when you pay and you remotely look like you belong to each other and get separate bills if you want. |
| 20:31 | <mbrubeck> | erlehmann: Does the new Ministry of Standards decide that all laws should be compatible with how people already behave? |
| 20:31 | <erlehmann> | AryehGregor, I also do not often give presents. Way to go. |
| 20:31 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, you usually have to be *very* explicit about bill-splitting in america. Pretty annoying. |
| 20:31 | <AryehGregor> | Yeah, food is easy to split. I've done it lots of times when going to a restaurant with random friends. |
| 20:31 | <jgraham> | Split bills are rather common here |
| 20:31 | <jgraham> | Much more so than in the UK |
| 20:31 | <jgraham> | Typically everyone goes up to the counter and pays |
| 20:31 | <TabAtkins> | Going out with friends, sure, you just ask for a split bill when you order. Going out on a date? That's harder. |
| 20:32 | <jgraham> | Although you have to remember what you ordered |
| 20:32 | <gsnedders> | You don't even need to look together in the UK to get a single bill. |
| 20:32 | <AryehGregor> | mbrubeck, it would be awesome if laws reflected reality, instead of most of them being totally unenforced. |
| 20:32 | <jgraham> | Which is hard when you couldn't pronounce it the first time |
| 20:32 | <AryehGregor> | TabAtkins, oh, so you mean socially and not technically. |
| 20:32 | <TabAtkins> | AryehGregor: Yes. |
| 20:32 | <gsnedders> | Though maybe going out as two people with a girl of similar age doesn't help getting split bills. |
| 20:32 | <gsnedders> | So maybe my sample is a bit out. |
| 20:32 | <AryehGregor> | jgraham, just order the same thing every time, and only go to three different restaurants. Simple. |
| 20:32 | <TabAtkins> | Also: Ministan. Goes great with the other ministries. |
| 20:33 | <jgraham> | AryehGregor: Borning. And probably expensive |
| 20:33 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: What restauarants are cheap here? |
| 20:33 | <gsnedders> | *restaurants |
| 20:33 | <jgraham> | (because if you could only have three dishes it would have to be the nice ones) |
| 20:33 | <TabAtkins> | I only go to one restaurant per date. Personal policy. |
| 20:33 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Umm... |
| 20:33 | <jgraham> | TabAtkins: Lame |
| 20:33 | <AryehGregor> | jgraham, are you assuming that I have any culinary sensibilities whatsoever? |
| 20:33 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: My point exactly. It's going to be expensive anywhere, whatever you get. |
| 20:33 | <AryehGregor> | TabAtkins, surely you mean "went", since you've been married for several years. |
| 20:34 | <jgraham> | TabAtkins: You should make a point of going somewhere different for dessert and or coffee / etc. |
| 20:34 | <TabAtkins> | I go on dates with my wife! |
| 20:34 | <mbrubeck> | "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. text/html is XHTML." |
| 20:34 | <erlehmann> | mbrubeck, not exactly. king-president hickson will refuse to enact laws when apple town and mozillaville disagree on what standard holo TVs should be based on. |
| 20:34 | <AryehGregor> | Those usually aren't called dates, they're called "nights out" or something. |
| 20:34 | <TabAtkins> | jgraham: Nah, I'd rather just go to some place with good desserts to start with. |
| 20:34 | <TabAtkins> | AryehGregor: I call them dates. |
| 20:34 | AryehGregor | just gets pizza if he's at a pizza place, and General Tso's chicken at a Chinese place, and asks whoever he's with what to get if he's anywhere else |
| 20:34 | <jgraham> | mbrubeck: Surely you mean "ar is peace. Freedom is slavery. Going out with your wife is a date" |
| 20:35 | AryehGregor | also never goes to restaurants. |
| 20:35 | gsnedders | is incapable of making a decision |
| 20:35 | <erlehmann> | TabAtkins, ministan sounds like a minor soviet ex-republic :D |
| 20:35 | <TabAtkins> | AryehGregor: But *what kind* of pizza? |
| 20:35 | <AryehGregor> | Normal's fine. |
| 20:35 | <AryehGregor> | Maybe extra cheese. |
| 20:35 | <TabAtkins> | What if they don't have normal? |
| 20:35 | <gsnedders> | (it doesn't matter what type of decision, I'm just incapable of making decisions.) |
| 20:35 | <AryehGregor> | What pizza place doesn't have normal pizza? |
| 20:35 | <gsnedders> | (I might get mocked by some for this.) |
| 20:35 | gsnedders | glares at jgraham |
| 20:35 | <TabAtkins> | I don't think BJ's has a plain pepperoni. |
| 20:35 | <TabAtkins> | I suppose you can order a cheese, but you have to ask for it. |
| 20:35 | <AryehGregor> | I said plain, not pepperoni. |
| 20:36 | <TabAtkins> | What is "plain"? |
| 20:36 | <AryehGregor> | Like, just tomato sauce and cheese. |
| 20:36 | <AryehGregor> | And, you know, some crust. |
| 20:36 | <erlehmann> | A cheese BJ ! |
| 20:36 | <AryehGregor> | Pepperoni pizza isn't kosher, it mixes milk with meat. |
| 20:36 | <TabAtkins> | Oh, right. |
| 20:36 | <AryehGregor> | Anyway, I subsist on two specific types of cereal that I buy in enormous quantities, plus sometimes one particular brand of frozen pizza, plus sometimes one particular brand of packaged macaroni and cheese, plus ~2L of caffeine-free Diet Pepsi per day, plus whatever my mother makes. |
| 20:36 | <AryehGregor> | This is enough variety for me. |
| 20:37 | <TabAtkins> | Are the two cereals Count Chocula and Cap'n Crunch? |
| 20:37 | <TabAtkins> | Because if not, your choices are wrong. |
| 20:37 | <erlehmann> | AryehGregor, are those food regulations only for orthodox people or do normal religious people also obey them ? |
| 20:37 | <AryehGregor> | No, they're Quaker Oatmeal Squares (eaten without milk as a snack) and Honey Nut Cheerios (with milk as breakfast). Currently. I switch to different cereals sometimes, like once every few months. |
| 20:37 | <TabAtkins> | I require all of my cereals to have the initials "CC". |
| 20:38 | <TabAtkins> | So I guess Cookie Crisp counts. |
| 20:38 | <erlehmann> | TabAtkins, Create a CC licensed CC recipe. |
| 20:39 | <TabAtkins> | Aw yiss. |
| 20:39 | <AryehGregor> | erlehmann, a baseline definition of "religious Orthodox Jew" is "observes the Sabbath and eats only kosher food". Most Jews aren't religious, though. Reform and secular Jews don't believe in keeping kosher, Conservative Jews theoretically do but few of them actually do in practice. |
| 20:39 | <erlehmann> | TEH MOAR YOU KNOW |
| 20:39 | <erlehmann> | thank, AryehGregor |
| 20:40 | <AryehGregor> | Of course, there are about fourteen zillion additional laws to obey beyond the Sabbath and kosher, but those two are among the most visible, burdensome, and socially important, so they're a pretty good indicator of whether you keep most of the rest. |
| 20:40 | <AryehGregor> | TabAtkins, I eat those sugary cereals sometimes, but they get tiresome when I eat the same thing for three months in a row. |
| 20:41 | <TabAtkins> | I could eat count chocula every single day and be happy with it. |
| 20:41 | <TabAtkins> | But I don't eat cereal anymore - for several years breakfast was always cheese+crackers+juice, and now I eat eggs most mornings. |
| 20:42 | <Dashiva> | Do jews that don't observe the sabbath and eat only kosher usually ignore it completely, or make up some kind of light/diet version? |
| 20:42 | TabAtkins | believes count chocula to be the perfect food. |
| 20:42 | <AryehGregor> | Eggs sound like they have to be prepared. |
| 20:42 | <TabAtkins> | AryehGregor: Yeah, but the chefs at google prepare them for me. |
| 20:44 | jgraham | recently discovered that Dorset Cereals are now avaliable in Sweden |
| 20:44 | <AryehGregor> | Dashiva, a lot of totally irreligious Jews still practice some observance on some of the more interesting holidays. And they usually practice circumcision, etc. |
| 20:44 | <AryehGregor> | TabAtkins, that sounds like an excellent arrangement. |
| 20:44 | <jgraham> | That was one of the happiest culinary moments of my time here |
| 20:44 | AryehGregor | bets that Google's New York office has decent kosher food, given the number of Jews here. |
| 20:45 | <jgraham> | (could be exaggeration) |
| 20:45 | <jgraham> | http://www.dorsetcereals.co.uk/ |
| 20:47 | <jgraham> | http://www.dorsetcereals.co.uk/mueslis/super-cranberry-cherry-almond/ in aprticular are the awesomest of all cerals |
| 23:39 | <sid__> | hi i was working with workers in html5 i tried copying one of the ticker example and try to get it wrking from the local browser.. I got this error SECURITY_ERR: DOM Exception 18 |
| 23:39 | <sid__> | The demo online works fine though... |
| 23:40 | <sid__> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/workers/ |
| 23:40 | <sid__> | this is the reference... |
| 23:40 | <sid__> | for the example |
| 23:40 | <sid__> | coul any one tell me what the error is |
| 23:41 | <mbrubeck> | sid__: Is your worker hosted at the same origin (protocol+hostname+port) as the page that is running it? |
| 23:42 | <sid__> | yeah the HTML source and the "worker.js" files are all on my local folder... |
| 23:43 | <mbrubeck> | I'm not sure local files (file:///...) are allowed to run workers... |
| 23:43 | <sid__> | hmm |
| 23:43 | <sid__> | so ill try putting em into apache.. one sec |
| 23:45 | <ap> | sid__: loading from local file should work in Safari |
| 23:48 | <sid__> | well it is working.... i need the search.cgi uri in that resouce... but it works in principle... |
| 23:49 | <sid__> | thanks |
| 23:50 | <sid__> | i was actually working with the workers API for Databases... i was working on a Scrapbook plugin that would use webstorage as the backing store... |
| 23:50 | <sid__> | Now the problem was that |
| 23:51 | <sid__> | with the asynchronus API thigs got hard very fast |
| 23:51 | <sid__> | as in all i could do was thru call backs |
| 23:52 | <sid__> | and when i had to do things like insert/update/initialize DB etc operations i decided to sitch to workers |
| 23:52 | <sid__> | switch* |
| 23:52 | <sid__> | i need now a good lesson to design a simple event based framework ... |
| 23:53 | <sid__> | any good tutorials(JS based) out there on this? |
| 23:54 | <mbrubeck> | I'd look at the http://nodejs.org/ API for inspiration |
| 23:55 | <micheil> | yeah, I would too. |
| 23:55 | <micheil> | (actually, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I highly recommend looking at node.js) |
| 23:56 | <sid__> | Hmm thanks |
| 23:56 | <MikeSmith> | can somebody please try selecting and copying-and-pasting text from this page: http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-market-capitalization-microsoft-vs-apple-2010-5 |
| 23:56 | <MikeSmith> | ...and tell me what you get |
| 23:57 | <TabAtkins> | Any text in particular? |
| 23:58 | <TabAtkins> | Oh, you mean the "Read more: ..." thing at the end of the copypaste? |
| 23:58 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: yeah |
| 23:58 | <hober> | I get the text I copied, and just the text I copied |
| 23:58 | <TabAtkins> | Interesting. |
| 23:59 | <TabAtkins> | I'm using Chrome 5 |
| 23:59 | <MikeSmith> | I was trying with Safari |
| 23:59 | <hober> | Chrome 6.0.401.1 dev |
| 23:59 | <MikeSmith> | it seemed to not let me copy at all all, it just gives me that "Read more:" bit with the URL |