| 00:01 | <cardona507> | I had a good time at the TPAC - granted the most fun was the night we all went out for mexican food |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | i'm not arguing that they're not fun, especially the first few |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | i'm arguing that they're a waste of time |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | i do think we should have some get togethers more often |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | it's hard with us spread around so much though |
| 00:08 | <cardona507> | I was watching the documentary Code Rush - about Mozilla and noticed that they all have a celebration dinner at the same mexican restaurant that we all ate at. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u404SLJj7ig - |
| 00:11 | <Hixie> | yup |
| 00:11 | <Hixie> | la fiesta |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | i first learnt of la fiesta while interning at netscape |
| 00:12 | <cardona507> | :) |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | we went there all the time |
| 00:12 | <cardona507> | wow - you were at netscape - interesting |
| 00:12 | <cardona507> | bet that was a wild ride |
| 00:19 | <Hixie> | cardona507: i was there for a year as an intern, basically during the netscape 6.0 release |
| 00:19 | <Hixie> | summer 2000 to summer 2001 |
| 00:19 | <Hixie> | just before the bubble burst |
| 00:19 | <Hixie> | or as the bubble was bursting |
| 00:19 | <Hixie> | depending on your outlook |
| 00:19 | <cardona507> | any obvious similarities between then and now? |
| 00:21 | <Hixie> | hard to say |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | the french have a saying, le plus ca change, le plus c'est la meme chose (modulo my not having entered appropriate accents) |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | which applies here |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | the fundamentals are all pretty much the same |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | even the players are pretty much the same |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | though with some new faces, and some old ones gone |
| 00:24 | <cardona507> | well said |
| 00:25 | <TabAtkins_> | Hixie: The english speaking world has that saying too. (I dunno where it originated, but it's common now.) |
| 00:25 | <Hixie> | comes from Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr |
| 00:26 | <Hixie> | ok bbl |
| 00:26 | <cardona507> | HTML5 it - http://www.fastcompany.com/1658276/html5-the-next-buzzword-the-next-battle?partner=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+fastcompany/headlines+(Fast+Company+Headlines) |
| 00:26 | <cardona507> | ugg - what an ugly url |
| 00:28 | <Dashiva> | You can leave out the stuff after the ? |
| 00:29 | <cardona507> | yes - that is better |
| 00:31 | <Dashiva> | Evil google making our URLs ugly :P |
| 00:42 | <til> | this is slightly OT, but does anyone know where apple was going to publish the FaceTime spec yesterday? |
| 00:42 | <til> | there are so many standards bodies. i haven't seen anything posted on IETF |
| 01:40 | <paul_irish> | anyone know if a css spec indicates i can legally mix hex notation with rgba or not? |
| 01:47 | <Dashiva> | paul_irish: Mix how? In the same stylesheet, or the same value? |
| 01:49 | <paul_irish> | well my usecase here is a linear gradient.. |
| 01:50 | <paul_irish> | i can't think of any spec'd things that accept multiple colors like gradients do... |
| 01:51 | <paul_irish> | the problem is webkit doesnt allow a mix of hex and rgba values in a linear gradient definition, and i wanted to see if a spec indicates it should. |
| 01:53 | <Dashiva> | I guess that would depend on the specification for the property |
| 01:53 | <Dashiva> | E.g. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/-moz-linear-gradient doesn't say anything about the different <color> instances having to use the same syntax, so it should work in firefox |
| 02:50 | <TabAtkins> | paul_irish: A <color> is a <color> is a <color>. It doesn't matter what notation you use, even for multiple occurences in one "value" like a linear-gradient() function. |
| 02:50 | <TabAtkins> | They all just get passed to the color parser and turned into a 4-byte number anyway. |
| 02:53 | <TabAtkins> | If webkit seriously doesn't allow mixed notations in color-stops in their -webkit-gradient() notation, that's extremely odd. It would be substantially more work to disallow it than to allow it. |
| 03:30 | <paul_irish> | TabAtkins: i am now having trouble reproducing the bug i found. if i can, i'll file it. thx |
| 04:14 | <annevk> | oh, only 5:20 |
| 04:15 | <annevk> | D66 FTW |
| 04:19 | <annevk> | aah, we went from 11 to 10 again |
| 04:19 | <annevk> | lame |
| 06:10 | <kpx> | Hey I am making a scrapbook plugin for google chrome and nearing completion. I am saving the pages as a innerHTML of the 'HTML' element in a WEBDATABASE in HTML5. At rendering time I am just replacing the innerHTML of a blank page. This is obviously not sufficient as the style etc are not applied properly and page is distorted.... The question is more how can i retrieve the style of the... |
| 06:10 | <kpx> | ...page so I may store it onto the database?? .... |
| 06:10 | <kpx> | and then apply it back |
| 06:27 | <kpx> | Never mind I think I got it.... |
| 07:31 | <kpx> | Hey does someone know a pure JS function to convert Images to base64 so I can store it as text? |
| 07:34 | <slartsa> | hm, I can't trust w3schools anymore, found a typo from the site :) |
| 07:49 | <hsivonen> | Are the Adobe heart images at http://www.fastcompany.com/1658276/html5-the-next-buzzword-the-next-battle?partner=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+fastcompany/headlines+%28Fast+Company+Headlines actual ads? |
| 09:07 | <jgraham> | Wow, the name of the polyglot document is being bikeshedded |
| 09:30 | <abarth> | jgraham: shocking |
| 09:33 | <MikeSmith> | hey, it's abarth |
| 09:33 | <MikeSmith> | abarth: I was suggesting to wirepair yesterday that he should ping you |
| 09:33 | <abarth> | hi MikeSmith |
| 09:33 | <MikeSmith> | hey man |
| 09:33 | <abarth> | who is wirepair? |
| 09:34 | <MikeSmith> | he's interested in helping improved Web-application/browser security |
| 09:34 | <abarth> | ah, awesome |
| 09:34 | <MikeSmith> | and was asking about where he could find test cases |
| 09:35 | <abarth> | tests cases for what? |
| 09:35 | <abarth> | http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests/http/tests/security |
| 09:35 | <abarth> | has a ton of security test cases |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, like that |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | I don't know if he had found that yet or not |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | anyway, I just wanted to give you a heads-up that he may be pinging you |
| 09:36 | <abarth> | okiedokes |
| 09:36 | abarth | goes to bed |
| 09:46 | <wirepair> | doh just missed him |
| 09:49 | <Dashiva> | "1 in 4 has a vision difficulty (25%)" makes me think they include people with regular glasses |
| 11:42 | <zcorpan_> | http://twitter.com/jaffathecake/status/15839704934 |
| 11:44 | <volkmar> | the specs say input.value, on setting should throw INVALID_STATE_ERR if the type is 'file' but SECURITY_ERR isn't more appropriate ? |
| 12:44 | <jgraham> | Is it just me that is having problems with recent firefox trunk on lucid? |
| 12:44 | <jgraham> | Like it won't start at all |
| 12:45 | <micheil> | jgraham: got that websocket-server working. |
| 12:46 | <jgraham> | micheil: Nice |
| 12:46 | <micheil> | yeah. parses something like 100,000 packets / ~1.2 |
| 12:46 | jgraham | wonders if WebM is to blame or if this failure predates that landing |
| 12:47 | <kbrosnan> | webm was yesterday morning |
| 12:48 | <jgraham> | Hmm, I think it stopped loading yesterday, but I hasn't updated for a few days |
| 12:48 | <jgraham> | *hadn't |
| 12:49 | <kbrosnan> | starts fine for me, ppa or build from mozilla? |
| 12:49 | <jgraham> | ppa |
| 12:49 | kbrosnan | is using the latter |
| 12:50 | <kbrosnan> | try the usual, safe mode, rename .mozilla? |
| 12:51 | <jgraham> | Yeah, will do |
| 14:12 | <henrikbjorn> | hey guys. a little question. If i have a widget in my sidebar that has a h1 should it then be a <article> or <section> |
| 14:13 | <zcorpan_> | henrikbjorn: is the widget 'standalone'? |
| 14:13 | <henrikbjorn> | its a ul with links to discussions |
| 14:14 | <henrikbjorn> | which dosent really have anything to do with the content areas content |
| 14:14 | <zcorpan_> | sounds like an <aside> then :) |
| 14:14 | <henrikbjorn> | okay :) another stupid question then. What if it is a box width text like "Help us out with feedback click here" aside aswell ? |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan_> | sure. or you could have an <aside> that wraps all such boxes |
| 14:16 | <boblet> | oh oh stupid question time? perfect! :) |
| 14:16 | <boblet> | one from me; the reason for the change from block/inline to flow/phrasing was the confusion once CSS display values are added to the mix, right? |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan_> | boblet: yes |
| 14:17 | <boblet> | henrikbjorn: I like to think of <aside> as something that’s not essential to the main content, i.e. something a mobile browser could choose to not download to save bandwidth |
| 14:18 | <boblet> | zcorpan_: thanks :) thought I remember reading that somewhere but wanted to check |
| 14:18 | <boblet> | henrikbjorn: you could also use Safari Reader or Instapaper as a mental model |
| 14:18 | <henrikbjorn> | zcorpan_: yeah but the question is what the markup for the box it self should be not the sidebar :) |
| 14:19 | <henrikbjorn> | like iphone specific sites |
| 14:19 | <zcorpan_> | henrikbjorn: i'd say <section> |
| 14:20 | <henrikbjorn> | i guess a box like this falls under "The section element represents a generic document or application section…" |
| 14:21 | <henrikbjorn> | thanks guys :D |
| 14:22 | <boblet> | henrikbjorn: if you need more feedback a code sample is always easy to advise on |
| 14:23 | <boblet> | (not required of course :) ) |
| 14:23 | <henrikbjorn> | yeah was just initial thoughts before starting coding. Im sure ill come up with a few questions incl. code samples later on :) |
| 14:24 | zcorpan_ | likes the fact that http://simon.html5.org/sandbox/html/w3c-home-in-html5 now renders correctly in opera, firefox and webkit |
| 14:24 | <zcorpan_> | when i wrote that page, it only rendered correctly in opera |
| 14:24 | <zcorpan_> | wonder if ie9 gets it right |
| 14:31 | <zcorpan_> | oh, html5test.com finally updated |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | hmm. SVG and MathML parsing count as bonus points... |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | support for parsing is actually required |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | though it's probably better if a browser doesn't support parsing if it doesn't support rendering |
| 14:38 | <zcorpan_> | chrome doesn't support WAVE? |
| 14:48 | <Lachy> | zcorpan_, no, it never has |
| 14:49 | <Lachy> | only aac and vorbis, I believe |
| 14:53 | <zcorpan_> | wonder why they don't support wave |
| 14:57 | <hsivonen> | so there isn't even PCM WAVE as cross-browser audio baseline :-( |
| 15:01 | <zcorpan_> | http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=23916 |
| 15:01 | <hsivonen> | I can no longer find any mention of PCM in the spec |
| 15:01 | <hsivonen> | I thought PCM WAVE used to be a required feature |
| 15:01 | <hsivonen> | did it get vendor vetoed? |
| 15:03 | <zcorpan_> | hixie removed it at the same time as the codec big-issue paragraph was removed, citing the fact that all browsers were going to support wave anyway |
| 15:03 | <hsivonen> | right... |
| 15:19 | <jgraham> | Hmm, doesn't the W3C testsuite license grant a strict subset of the rights granted by the 3 clause BSD license? |
| 15:20 | <jgraham> | Oh it's probably about whether you get to mention the W3C or not |
| 15:20 | <jgraham> | In one case you have to, in the other you can't |
| 15:20 | <hsivonen> | It's relatively hard to grant a superset of the right granted by the 3-clause BSD license without going into trademark territory |
| 15:20 | <hsivonen> | *rights |
| 15:22 | <jgraham> | Yeah, I think the trademark issue is the only difference |
| 15:23 | <jgraham> | That is, if you want to mention the W3C you must use the things under the W3C testsuite license which doesn't allow modifications |
| 15:23 | <Dashiva> | "Here is a testsuite completely unrelated to w3c" |
| 15:25 | <nessy> | google chrome doesn't support PCM WAVE |
| 15:45 | <annevk> | what is the point again of having two licenses for a test? http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing/Submission/ |
| 15:45 | <annevk> | one being less permissive than the other |
| 15:45 | <hsivonen> | annevk: the less permissive one is more Official |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | so basically for people that would love to use it under that license so they are forced to meet the extra requirements? |
| 15:47 | <hsivonen> | for people who want to pass the Official Test Suite, I guess |
| 15:47 | <zcorpan_> | a whole lotta yellow in http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100609 |
| 15:50 | <annevk> | maybe because it was election day |
| 15:57 | <hsivonen> | http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100609#l-1225 I would have thought Googlebot had CSS support already |
| 16:01 | <TabAtkins> | Googlebot understands enough CSS to tell in some circumstances that you're trying to be sneaky with SEO things. That's about it. |
| 16:02 | <zcorpan_> | TabAtkins: but it doesn't fetch external style sheets, does it? |
| 16:02 | hsivonen | wonders if Googlebot support all the newest Selectors |
| 16:33 | <TabAtkins> | AryehGregor: Is kosher a proper superset of vegetarian? |
| 16:37 | <TabAtkins> | I know that it's not a superset of fish-eating vegetarianism, because of dairy+fish. |
| 17:46 | <Dashiva> | Who is going to buy all the bikes we'll need to justify these bikesheds? |
| 17:48 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: You're missing the point of bikesheds, if you want to put bikes in them |
| 17:48 | <Philip`> | The point of bikesheds is the bikeshed |
| 17:52 | <henrikbjorn> | Hey. How would you guys markup http://drp.ly/1as46T in html5 |
| 17:53 | <MikeSmith> | Philip`: I object to the way you've chosen to make your point about the point about bikesheds. |
| 17:54 | <TabAtkins> | <div><ul><li><a href="#forum">Forum</a></li><li><a href="popular">Popular</a></li><li><a href="#nyeste">Nyeste</a></li></ul> <ul id=forum><li>...</li>...</ul> <ul id=popular>...</div> |
| 17:54 | <henrikbjorn> | but wuldnt a dl be a better option. And no section / article ? :) |
| 17:55 | <TabAtkins> | A <dl> is a possibilty, but styling it would be harder. |
| 17:55 | <TabAtkins> | And no, no need for sectioning elements in particular here. |
| 17:55 | <henrikbjorn> | even tho its meant for a sidebar ? |
| 17:56 | <TabAtkins> | In that case, probably replace the <div> with an <aside>. |
| 17:56 | <henrikbjorn> | okay :) |
| 17:56 | <Philip`> | TabAtkins: Wouldn't something like <h1>Forum</h1> (forum links) <h1>Populaere</h1> ... be more appropriate? |
| 17:56 | <Philip`> | since those heading things look like heading things to me |
| 17:56 | <TabAtkins> | Still too hard to style. |
| 17:57 | <TabAtkins> | Some consideration must be given to visual effects, at least until I get some better layout modules done in CSS. |
| 17:57 | <henrikbjorn> | the styling dosent matter :) more the markup im interested in.. my first atemp was a aside with a header and a section which hold the ul |
| 18:21 | <variable> | I just added textarea to the rationale page on the wiki: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Rationale#textarea --> any comments? |
| 18:58 | <AryehGregor> | TabAtkins, dairy+fish is fine, only dairy+meat/poultry is a problem. Kosher food isn't quite a subset of vegan food; although all the ingredients in vegan food are kosher, there are some restrictions on the preparation and handling of food that could be a problem even if none of the ingredients are inherently non-kosher. |
| 18:59 | <AryehGregor> | For instance, milk is a problem according to some if not produced under Jewish supervision. Grape juice/wine can be a problem. Some cooked food is a problem. |
| 18:59 | <AryehGregor> | Something like raw fruit or vegetables should always be fine, at least if you ignore the problem of bugs. |
| 19:00 | <TabAtkins> | "Problem"? |
| 19:00 | <AryehGregor> | I mean, it can be non-kosher. |
| 19:00 | <TabAtkins> | Bugs can be non-kosher? |
| 19:00 | <AryehGregor> | All bugs are non-kosher, except theoretically some species of locust. |
| 19:01 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, kk. |
| 19:01 | <AryehGregor> | The only kosher animals are beasts with cloven hooves that chew their cud, fish with fins and scales, and most birds that people actually eat. |
| 19:02 | <TabAtkins> | Random awesome: http://pterosaurs.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/more_azhdarchids_with_clouds1.jpg |
| 19:04 | AryehGregor | was about to question the accuracy of that image, but then looked up "azhdarchid" on Wikipedia and found the same image illustrating the article |
| 19:04 | <TabAtkins> | Haha. |
| 19:04 | <AryehGregor> | Apparently that's meant to be a "juvenile titanosaur" there. |
| 19:04 | <TabAtkins> | One particular family of pterosaurs is, apparently, confectured to be a plains walker. |
| 19:05 | <AryehGregor> | I was suspicious of the scale, because I assumed that thing was like a full-grown brontosaurus or such. |
| 19:05 | <TabAtkins> | It could still fly, but would often just walk around like a terrifying ostrich-analogue. |
| 19:05 | <TabAtkins> | Oh, no. Just tiny food animal. |
| 20:21 | <othermaciej> | wow, there has been a lot of public-html mail the past two weeks |
| 20:21 | <cardona507> | thats for sure |
| 20:23 | <annevk> | hey, wb maciej |
| 20:23 | <TabAtkins> | yo, maciej. |
| 20:24 | TabAtkins | is temporarily binning public-html for a month or two. |
| 20:26 | gsnedders | will eventually catch up on public-html |
| 20:26 | gsnedders | is around a month behind |
| 20:45 | <cardona507> | installing windows XP onto my mac for some IE testing - I feel dirty |
| 20:50 | <Philip`> | othermaciej: Fortunately approximately none of it was technical discussion, so it can be safely ignored by almost everyone (except by e.g. chairs) |
| 20:51 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Don't bother |
| 20:52 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: But what else will I do next Monday!? |
| 20:53 | <Philip`> | The same thing you do every Monday - try to take over the world |
| 20:55 | <gsnedders> | Shh, don't mention that. |
| 20:58 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: is not actually pinky |
| 20:58 | <jgraham> | or indeed the brain |
| 21:54 | <AryehGregor> | Does anyone know roughly what percentage of Mozilla development (for instance) is done by employees vs. volunteers? |
| 21:56 | <jgraham> | AryehGregor: How are you measuing "development"? |
| 21:56 | <AryehGregor> | I don't know, anything handy. |
| 21:56 | <jgraham> | (the short anser is "no" btw) |
| 21:56 | <AryehGregor> | Heh. |
| 21:56 | <AryehGregor> | Number of commits would be a good start. |
| 21:57 | <jcranmer> | l10n commits skew that statistic a fair amount |
| 21:57 | <jgraham> | You probably need to weight by complexity of change somehow |
| 21:58 | <jgraham> | and remember that employees are more likely to have commit access |
| 21:58 | <AryehGregor> | It says who wrote the patch, though, yes? |
| 21:58 | <jgraham> | (does Mercurial allow seperate author/committer like git?) |
| 21:58 | <AryehGregor> | Pretty sure, yes. |
| 21:58 | <AryehGregor> | Or something like that. |
| 21:59 | jgraham | wonders how many of JF's disability categories he fits into |
| 22:02 | <jgraham> | AryehGregor: The longer version of "no" is "I guess it is mostly employees these days" |
| 22:02 | <AryehGregor> | This has my name: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/511a92d06acf |
| 22:15 | AryehGregor | finds a google.com page on https with a little skull and crossbones in Chrome, because of insecure resources |
| 22:15 | <AryehGregor> | I didn't even try! |
| 22:16 | <AryehGregor> | Yay for HTTPS being broken. |
| 22:17 | <AryehGregor> | I also like how the Google Checkout credit card number field doesn't have autocomplete disabled. |
| 22:38 | <cardona507> | can we postpone the dev meeting on next wed until 11am so that I can attend this? http://pages.engineyard.com/Rails3-MobileAppswithYehuda-62010.html |
| 22:42 | <Philip`> | cardona507: Wrong channel? |
| 22:44 | <cardona507> | haha - oops my bad :) |
