| 09:25 | <annevk> | again with the rain |
| 09:25 | <annevk> | at least I'm inside |
| 09:34 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: we haven't had rain for weeks here |
| 09:35 | <Rik`> | same here |
| 09:35 | <Rik`> | and it is most welcome, temperatures are down |
| 09:35 | <annevk> | we had some hail yesterday in between 25-30 degree heat |
| 09:36 | <annevk> | very large hail, even, almost golf ball sized |
| 09:45 | <annevk> | hsivonen, so if it's not XML5, what work on the XML parser is needed then? |
| 09:45 | jgraham | predicts off-the-main-thread parsing |
| 09:46 | <annevk> | but XML is hardly used, is that worth the effort? |
| 09:53 | <jgraham> | Maybe it helps for SVG content which could be very large |
| 10:02 | <MikeSmith> | privacy workshop is in progress |
| 10:02 | <MikeSmith> | minutes are here: |
| 10:02 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.w3.org/2010/07/12-privacy-minutes.html |
| 10:03 | <MikeSmith> | (refresh that once in in while to get the latest) |
| 10:03 | <MikeSmith> | and/or join #privacy on the W3C IRC server |
| 10:03 | <MikeSmith> | irc.w3.org, port 6665 or 80 |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | cheers MikeSmith |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | saw some of it on twitter already |
| 10:05 | <Peter`> | yup, thank you |
| 10:06 | <MikeSmith> | I think the 16:00-17:30 agenda slot will be especially interesting |
| 10:06 | <MikeSmith> | that's when Ian Fette and Marcos Caceres will be presenting |
| 10:07 | <annevk> | are any UI experts there? |
| 10:08 | <MikeSmith> | dunno |
| 10:08 | <MikeSmith> | Aza Raskin submitted a paper |
| 10:08 | <MikeSmith> | but not sure if he will be attending |
| 10:08 | <annevk> | but he's not presenting? |
| 10:08 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 10:08 | <annevk> | privacy UI would be interesting to read/see something about |
| 10:09 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: both Marcos and Ian Fette's paper also focus some on UI stuff |
| 10:10 | <MikeSmith> | Aza and Arun's paper proposes have a standard set of icons that signal info about privacy conditions |
| 10:11 | <annevk> | yeah, the Chrome paper was pretty good |
| 10:11 | <MikeSmith> | *proposes a standard set of icons |
| 10:11 | <annevk> | Marcos' paper didn't discuss how the problems could be addressed unfortunately |
| 10:15 | <MikeSmith> | there was a somewhat interesting side discussion about UI just now |
| 10:15 | <MikeSmith> | I refreshed the minutes |
| 10:16 | <MikeSmith> | see exchange with fette and hendry |
| 10:25 | <annevk> | hopefully someone writes a short blog post in the end with conclusions |
| 11:28 | <annevk> | note to self: hybi list participation does not seem worth it |
| 11:30 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: there's some cathartic value in it at least |
| 12:52 | <zcorpan_> | maybe speculative parsing for xml? |
| 12:55 | <adactio> | I'm trying to find the page on the wiki that hixie set up to document various kinds of text on video (karaoke, subtitles, etc.) but I'm not having much luck. Anyone got the URL? |
| 13:02 | <Workshiva> | adactio: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Use_cases_for_timed_tracks_rendered_over_video_by_the_UA |
| 13:02 | <adactio> | Workshiva: Thanks! |
| 13:02 | <Workshiva> | There are some other pages, but I think that's the one you mean |
| 14:58 | <karlcow> | http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/html5-id-class |
| 14:59 | <karlcow> | Topic: Access Control is an Inadequate Framework for Privacy Protection |
| 14:59 | <karlcow> | lalana: I do not propose any technical solutions. |
| 15:00 | <karlcow> | ... I will propose future directions researchs. |
| 15:01 | <karlcow> | ... Brandeis = access to information |
| 15:01 | <karlcow> | ... willis = use of information |
| 15:01 | <Peter`> | karlcow: wrong channel I think? |
| 15:01 | <karlcow> | doh |
| 16:23 | <karlcow> | Thanks Pe |
| 16:23 | <karlcow> | Thanks Peter` |
| 17:07 | <MikeSmith> | how has the meaning of the <em> element changed in HTML5? |
| 17:07 | <MikeSmith> | I have it marked as "changed" because somebody suggested I should |
| 17:08 | <MikeSmith> | but I can't remember what they said had changed about it |
| 17:10 | <Workshiva> | MikeSmith: Could it be some trivial detail that nobody actually cares about? |
| 17:10 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 17:10 | <MikeSmith> | I'm sure it is |
| 17:10 | <Workshiva> | I suppose you can't check html5-diffs :) |
| 17:13 | <MikeSmith> | Workshiva: it doesn't mention anything about em having changed |
| 17:14 | <MikeSmith> | I think Oli (boblet) was the one who has split hairs about this |
| 17:14 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100222#l-279 |
| 17:14 | <MikeSmith> | pointing out that the spec says "stress emphasis" |
| 17:14 | <MikeSmith> | whatever the hell that's supposed to mean… |
| 17:18 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: It sounds like you can solve your problem by ignoring it |
| 17:19 | <MikeSmith> | I'm good at that |
| 17:19 | <MikeSmith> | good match for my skill set |
| 17:20 | <MikeSmith> | when I was in elementary school, I always got A's for "ignores well" on my report card |
| 17:21 | <jgraham> | I mean people love to argue about tiny demantic details |
| 17:21 | <jgraham> | *semantic |
| 17:21 | <jgraham> | But then never do anything with all the semantics |
| 17:21 | <miketaylr> | demantics sounds cooler |
| 17:22 | <jgraham> | So it is just a waste of entropy |
| 17:27 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: No, it didn't change in any meaningful way. <strong> did, *slightly*, only to make it something other than <em>++. |
| 17:27 | <GPHemsley> | I thought it was changed to stress that <em> !== <i> |
| 17:28 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: Oli asserts that it has changed -- see http://html5doctor.com/i-b-em-strong-element/ |
| 17:29 | <MikeSmith> | "<em> — was emphasis, now for stress emphasis, i.e., something you’d pronounce differently" |
| 17:29 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, that's the "didn't change in any meaningful way" part. |
| 17:30 | <MikeSmith> | "something you’d pronounce differently" is a way that the spec *could* state it, I suppose … but it actually doesn't |
| 18:52 | <KaOSoFt> | http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/07/12/1543248/How-To-Use-HTML5-Today |
| 20:42 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, finally got <audio> to work well in the browser. It was tricky to figure out how to handle a single sound being played multiple overlapping times. |
| 20:42 | <TabAtkins> | (The answer is to create multiple <audio>s with the same src, and just cycle through the set.) |
| 20:57 | <erlehmann> | TabAtkins what are you building with <audio> ? |
| 20:57 | <TabAtkins> | http://www.xanthir.com/collidingcircles |
| 20:57 | <TabAtkins> | Click around in the black square a bit. |
| 21:04 | <cardona507> | TabAtkins: nice work |
| 21:09 | <TabAtkins> | Thanks, cardona507. Just me playing around with <canvas> and <audio>, based on a challenge from brucel to replicate a Flash app that did approximately the same. |
| 21:10 | <cardona507> | very cool |
| 21:10 | <gsnedders> | Taking up challenges from brucel tends to be a bad idea |
| 21:12 | <TabAtkins> | Well, in this case it was good. I successfully finished it, and learned stuff in the process. |
| 21:12 | TabAtkins | figures he should actually learn <canvas> and such, since he's off doing talks about it. |
| 21:13 | <cardona507> | :) |
| 22:27 | <Hixie> | ok so this may seem like a dumb question |
| 22:27 | <Hixie> | but |
| 22:28 | <Hixie> | where does css require that UAs implement the CSS box model? |
| 22:29 | <annevk> | "A user agent is any program that interprets a document written in the document language and applies associated style sheets according to the terms of this specification." |
| 22:29 | <annevk> | -- http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html |
| 22:30 | <Hixie> | k |
| 22:31 | <annevk> | I think that statement is how CSS gets away with fluffy language, but you would know better having been an active editor and all :) |
| 22:31 | <Hixie> | when i was an editor (and still now) i thought we should scrap css's current text and rewrite it using rfc2119 terms |
| 22:32 | <Hixie> | so... |
| 22:32 | <annevk> | fair enough |
| 22:34 | <annevk> | I wonder how long CSS 2.1 will continue to be patched |
| 22:37 | <Slaanesh> | Until all the relevant CSS 3 equivalents are CR? |
| 22:38 | <annevk> | "CSS3" is just patches applies to CSS 2.1 |
| 22:38 | <annevk> | applied, even |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | we should just do the same as with html |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | and have one "CSS" spec |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | but anyway |
| 22:39 | <annevk> | if we had someone to do it that'd be great |
| 22:39 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 22:54 | <Hixie> | nothing prevents the root element from being position:absolute right? |
| 22:58 | <annevk> | nope |
| 22:58 | <Hixie> | excellent |
| 22:58 | <annevk> | I filed a bunch of bugs in 2004 to actually get that to work in browsers :) |
| 23:17 | <Hixie> | i haven't finished it or defined how the properties are mapped yet, but does this look like it uses the right incantations to invoke CSS for rendering subtitles? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#rules-for-updating-the-display-of-websrt-timed-tracks |
| 23:17 | <Hixie> | specifically step 7.6 |