| 00:39 | <KevinMarks> | OK, so what is this 'tiny bit of javascript' to tell if the declarative audio tag with an mp3 in it is a useless waste of space? |
| 00:39 | <KevinMarks> | 'cos what I'm trying isn't working |
| 00:39 | <TabAtkins> | Create an audio, use canPlayType() to query it. |
| 00:39 | <TabAtkins> | If it can't, then grab all the audios, loop through them, and replace them with embed code. |
| 00:40 | <TabAtkins> | That's the simple way. You can be slightly more robust at the cost of a bit more code, but this'll work for the simple case of "I only have an mp3, but can feed it to flash for fallback." |
| 00:42 | <KevinMarks> | Ihave to create a new audio, I can't use an element I declared? |
| 00:42 | <KevinMarks> | I'd like to know if that specific one worked... |
| 00:43 | <TabAtkins> | Sure, you could do that too. |
| 00:43 | <TabAtkins> | Any audio will respond the same. |
| 00:43 | TabAtkins | is gone for a bit. |
| 00:59 | <MikeSmith> | Chrome has an experimental context-menu API? |
| 00:59 | <MikeSmith> | http://code.google.com/chrome/extensions/dev/experimental.contextMenus.html |
| 01:00 | <Cheery> | I enjoyed talking with you guys. it helped me understand your design choices behind websocket. |
| 01:05 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/extensions/context-menu-api |
| 01:17 | <karlcow> | Google and Apple joined IDPF (epub standard) http://reading20.posterous.com/idpf-grows |
| 01:18 | <karlcow> | that will change the dynamic… maybe |
| 01:26 | <MikeSmith> | some Apple people had already been attending the ePub 2.1 meetings anyway |
| 01:26 | <gsnedders> | http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/07/16/how-ie9-platform-preview-feedback-changed-the-javascript-standard.aspx |
| 01:28 | <MikeSmith> | gsnedders: great posting |
| 01:29 | <MikeSmith> | I wonder why chrome team is not also or instead implementing the HTML5 context-menu mechanism |
| 01:29 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/interactive-elements.html#context-menus |
| 01:29 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: That's an excellent question. |
| 01:30 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: maybe it's just a simple case that nobody realized it's in the spec |
| 01:30 | <MikeSmith> | it's an easy feature to miss, really |
| 01:30 | <MikeSmith> | and no other browser projects have shown signs of implementing it yet either |
| 01:31 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: Nod. I'm asking around. |
| 01:31 | <MikeSmith> | cool |
| 01:34 | <wirepair> | hey MikeSmith |
| 01:35 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: At the time we started working on that, the HTML5 stuff either didn't exist or was still pretty obviously immature. |
| 01:41 | <MikeSmith> | the HTML5 stuff has been in the spec since forever, relatively |
| 01:41 | <MikeSmith> | and has not really changed at all |
| 01:41 | <TabAtkins> | I'll investigate later to see what they think of the current stuff. |
| 01:41 | <TabAtkins> | Right now I'm too busy drinking. |
| 01:41 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 01:41 | <MikeSmith> | cheers |
| 01:41 | <MikeSmith> | wirepair: hey man |
| 01:42 | <MikeSmith> | wirepair: I found another sento in my neighborhood that's only 15-minutes walk, and open on Fridays (which my normal one ain't) |
| 01:42 | <MikeSmith> | you got to try out the sento lifestyle |
| 01:43 | <MikeSmith> | one downside I notice is that in summertime I get really sleepy after going to sento in the late evening |
| 01:44 | <MikeSmith> | so hard to get work done after |
| 01:44 | <MikeSmith> | but I guess being able to fall asleep easier at normal sleeping time maybe is more of an upside than a downside |
| 01:49 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: (when you get back0 |
| 01:49 | <MikeSmith> | oops |
| 01:49 | <wirepair> | MikeSmith nice, i just moved out of tokyo |
| 01:49 | <wirepair> | down south of yokohama, well, will be i came to san fran for a month to hang out and work remotely ;) |
| 01:50 | <wirepair> | making serious progress on my browser testing system, now supports an external runner app, and a javascript based version for running through testcases ;) |
| 01:51 | <wirepair> | once i finish making sure the browser automation stuff is solid, going to work on building testcases/importing old chrome/firefox regressions |
| 01:51 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: (when you get back) the proposal at http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/extensions/context-menu-api seems to just be from earlier this year .. regardless, I am fairly certain the HTML5 context-menu stuff has not changed at all since the time that API was conceived, so if the existing spec was judged to be pretty obviously immature that time, then it is just as immature now |
| 01:52 | <MikeSmith> | and maybe other browser projects would judge it to be immature also |
| 01:53 | <MikeSmith> | ..if so, would seems to argue for having mailing-list discussion about it, and getting more feedback to help improve the spec |
| 01:53 | <MikeSmith> | wirepair: sounds great |
| 01:53 | <MikeSmith> | have you been talking with Sylvain? |
| 01:53 | <MikeSmith> | or the other testing folk? |
| 01:53 | <wirepair> | just syp |
| 01:54 | <wirepair> | i went with a different automation method |
| 01:54 | <wirepair> | using ldtp for *nix and pywinauto for windows |
| 01:54 | <wirepair> | then i have the js version as a back up |
| 01:54 | <MikeSmith> | wirepair: btw, TabAtkins is also involved with some of the browser-testing work with syp and others at W3C |
| 01:54 | <wirepair> | oh cool, good to know |
| 01:55 | <wirepair> | wrote a real real quick blog post on it: http://kougekiryoku.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-wbts-wbts.html |
| 01:56 | <MikeSmith> | nice posting |
| 01:56 | <MikeSmith> | cool to see that you're using twisted |
| 01:56 | <MikeSmith> | but maybe you'll have to do what all the cool kids are doing and switch to node.js |
| 01:57 | <wirepair> | ha |
| 01:57 | <wirepair> | unless they have a node-dns.js i don't think so ;) |
| 01:57 | <wirepair> | having a built in dns server is key. |
| 02:00 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: Ok. Yeah, I'll talk to the relevant dudes on Monday. |
| 02:00 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: thanks and go back to your tipple :) |
| 02:01 | <TabAtkins> | Done with that now. All the work is on my liver at this point. |
| 02:01 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 02:01 | <TabAtkins> | I'll take my notebook and be very studious. |
| 02:01 | <TabAtkins> | I should familiarize myself more with the html5 api this weekend so I'm prepared. |
| 02:04 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: I think it's pretty simple: you just create a <menu> element in the DOM, with an ID on it, and you put the @contextmenu attribute, with a ref to that ID, on whatever element(s) you want that context menu to show up on |
| 02:05 | <MikeSmith> | wirepair: what's the elevator pitch for MongoDB? |
| 02:05 | <MikeSmith> | similar to couch? |
| 02:06 | <wirepair> | elevator pitch? |
| 02:06 | <wirepair> | not sure i follow |
| 02:06 | <TabAtkins> | 1 minute summary |
| 02:06 | <wirepair> | ahh gotcha |
| 02:07 | <wirepair> | it is similar to couch, but has a binary protocol |
| 02:07 | <wirepair> | the idea of using http requests for accessing a db is pretty silly imho |
| 02:08 | <wirepair> | also it had a twisted client already written |
| 02:08 | <wirepair> | and it's super easy to work with creating new documents is a breeze |
| 02:08 | <MikeSmith> | I see |
| 02:09 | <wirepair> | also cross-platform support is good, no need for installation just ./mongodb --dbpath=wherever |
| 02:09 | <MikeSmith> | nice |
| 02:09 | <wirepair> | so yeah that's pretty much it |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/MeetingMinutes100707 |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | [[ |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | Markus: we have other options besides HTML5, like XForms |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | Peter-: XForms is basically dead |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | Markus: well, yes |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | ]] |
| 02:25 | <MikeSmith> | http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/TextContent |
| 02:25 | <MikeSmith> | http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/TextContent#Requirements |
| 02:26 | <MikeSmith> | http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/TextContent#Migration_to_HTML5 |
| 02:26 | <MikeSmith> | "WG members may put forward counterproposals to the move towards HTML5. Until such counterproposals appear, the requirements listed in this section are written assuming that the HTML5 adoption is done." |
| 02:29 | <MikeSmith> | "Requirement: Documents adhering to the EPUB adaption of HTML5 must be compliant XML documents." |
| 02:30 | <MikeSmith> | MURATA: I like XML, but will content providers listen to us? Won't they anyway create non-XML HTML documents anyway? |
| 02:30 | <MikeSmith> | bravo Murata-san |
| 02:30 | <MikeSmith> | "Dan Hughes: Agree. If the spec - and downstream distributor/device/software - requires valid XML, content providers will produce it." |
| 02:34 | <MikeSmith> | "Rationale: EPUB as a whole remains an XML-based framework. Allowing the HTML serialization of HTML5 in EPUB would mean that all reading systems would have to ship with two parsers; homogenizing the serialization to XML at production time seems more economical." |
| 02:34 | <MikeSmith> | they are already going to be shipping with two parsers, if they are using any modern browser engine |
| 02:35 | <MikeSmith> | and if they are using a browser engine that can do anything with HTML5 content |
| 03:55 | <MikeSmith> | http://openwebcamp.org/ looks pretty cool |
| 03:58 | <boblet> | paul_irish: yt? |
| 03:58 | <MikeSmith> | me notices estellevw on the speakers list |
| 04:08 | <paul_irish> | boblet: yo! nice shots |
| 04:09 | <boblet> | paul_irish: heh, thanks :) seems like you tweeted about html5homi.es first so dunno if it’s you or Jon I should be pinging for inclusion |
| 04:09 | boblet | starts to worry about if there’s a gang initiation |
| 04:11 | <boblet> | MikeSmith: btw you got the msg about flyers yah? |
| 04:11 | <MikeSmithX> | ye-up |
| 04:11 | <MikeSmithX> | thanks |
| 04:12 | <boblet> | np. I’m making a Japanese version so prolly should try to distribute these ones asap, and thought I’d co-opt you into that |
| 04:12 | <MikeSmithX> | ok |
| 04:13 | MikeSmithX | flashes HTML5 gang sign at MikeSmith |
| 04:17 | <boblet> | MikeSmith: btw my post to the IEblog about @font-face hasn’t been approved :| |
| 04:17 | <boblet> | well… yet anyhow |
| 04:18 | <boblet> | a bunch of others have tho |
| 04:19 | <MikeSmith> | go figure |
| 04:20 | <MikeSmith> | maybe they are blocking based on IP address |
| 04:20 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., blocking postings from asia IP ranges or something |
| 04:20 | <MikeSmith> | I have seen other sites do stupid things like that |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | based on the assumption that nobody from china or japan or whatever has any use for their site |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | the (un)logic them being that if comments from jp or china ip address, must be spammer |
| 04:24 | <boblet> | possible |
| 04:24 | <boblet> | oh well, whatevs |
| 04:54 | <paul_irish> | boblet: its jon. :) all him |
| 04:54 | <paul_irish> | well and now slex does the domain. |
| 04:54 | <boblet> | paul_irish: slex? anyhoo, hopefully Jon can add me to the posse later :) |
| 04:55 | <paul_irish> | boblet: slexaxton. he will! also what was you comment on the ieblog post? |
| 04:57 | <boblet> | just mentioned some cross-browser examples from ’09; Craig Mod’s… |
| 04:58 | <paul_irish> | oh. yah ieblog approves in batches. |
| 04:58 | <boblet> | paul_irish: also the three http://nicewebtype.com/fonts/ demos |
| 04:59 | <boblet> | paul_irish: well I posted when there were 2 comments. still nice they gave you some props :) |
| 05:01 | <paul_irish> | yeah not bad! :) |
| 05:01 | <boblet> | also nice to see they’re getting back on the horse huh |
| 05:02 | <paul_irish> | bigtime. |
| 05:02 | <boblet> | big(about f’in)time? |
| 05:09 | <paul_irish> | boblet: u dun got inisheeat'd |
| 05:11 | <boblet> | paul_irish: aiiit boyee! dat’s wat I’m talkin’ about |
| 05:40 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: wassup homie. thankx for the add |
| 05:40 | <JonathanNeal> | my pleasure, and thank you. |
| 05:41 | <boblet> | the initiation was a bit brutal, having to shiv all those pages for IE |
| 05:41 | <boblet> | gotta wash the angle brackets off my hands |
| 05:42 | <JonathanNeal> | what are you talking about, shimming for ie? |
| 05:43 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_(weapon) |
| 05:43 | <JonathanNeal> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(computing) |
| 05:44 | <JonathanNeal> | http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-experiments/phase-01.html |
| 05:44 | <JonathanNeal> | "The term shiv originates from John Resig, the creator of jQuery, who used the word as a metaphor to describe shiving support for HTML5 elements into Internet Explorer via javascript, where shiving is a slang term for a sharp object used as a knife-like weapon. There's also a chance that John had a moment of false etymology and meant to use the word shim, which in computing means an application compatibility workaroun |
| 05:44 | <JonathanNeal> | d." |
| 05:47 | <boblet> | heh |
| 05:48 | <boblet> | so I take it my attempt to combine gang and HTML language didn’t quite work out? |
| 05:48 | <franksalim> | so it's an eggcorn. an awesome eggcorn |
| 05:49 | <franksalim> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggcorn |
| 05:50 | <boblet> | franksalim: thanks for that |
| 05:50 | <JonathanNeal> | Oh I see what you did there, boblet |
| 05:50 | <boblet> | “mating name for maiden name” lolz |
| 05:51 | <JonathanNeal> | btw, I added your pic to the sandbox gang sign page |
| 05:51 | <JonathanNeal> | http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-gang-sign/ |
| 05:51 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: oh, two different sites? thanks again |
| 05:51 | <boblet> | (figured it was the same thing with a nice domain) |
| 05:52 | <JonathanNeal> | boblet, sandbox is where it started, but it spread wings and became something better |
| 05:52 | <JonathanNeal> | homi.es |
| 05:53 | <boblet> | indeedy. I shoulda taken the photos yesterday, but oh well |
| 05:53 | <JonathanNeal> | so, on the subject of whatwg and html5, boblet have you seen http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html-templates/html5.html ? |
| 05:54 | <JonathanNeal> | or any of the other templates in that directory? |
| 05:54 | boblet | looks |
| 05:58 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: are these general purpose or for internal use? |
| 05:59 | <JonathanNeal> | I'd like to use them to share. |
| 05:59 | <JonathanNeal> | And for all projects I start. |
| 06:00 | <boblet> | you’d probably want to start with a bunch of things commented out if shared (eg viewport, apple touch icon) |
| 06:01 | <boblet> | #content seems suitable for section or article depending on content |
| 06:02 | <JonathanNeal> | it focuses on all the basics you might use. |
| 06:03 | <boblet> | for the microdata itemprop="fn org" won’t map to any text in output (you ’d need to change to eg CSS image replacement |
| 06:05 | <boblet> | that’s about all I can say without seeing content. good base |
| 06:05 | <JonathanNeal> | what |
| 06:05 | <JonathanNeal> | i didn't do that |
| 06:06 | <JonathanNeal> | wait, i thought you said something else |
| 06:06 | <JonathanNeal> | why is that bad what I did? |
| 06:06 | <boblet> | what specifically? |
| 06:06 | <JonathanNeal> | it will map the alt text of the img |
| 06:06 | <JonathanNeal> | I remember this, specifically. |
| 06:07 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: oh really. huh. didn’t realise that. thanks |
| 06:07 | <JonathanNeal> | Because I was originally putting it on the img itself, and there was this feud over that. |
| 06:07 | <JonathanNeal> | that fn org shouldn't be expected to read the alt text for an image |
| 06:07 | <JonathanNeal> | but from the container, it was okay. |
| 06:07 | <boblet> | looks like I haven’t microdata’ed any images yet |
| 06:08 | <JonathanNeal> | boblet, any validators / readers on the web? |
| 06:08 | <boblet> | foolip’s Live Microdata tis all atm http://foolip.org/microdatajs/live/ |
| 06:08 | <boblet> | luckily it’s pretty good |
| 06:10 | <JonathanNeal> | it doesn't like what i did. |
| 06:11 | <boblet> | checking microdata spec |
| 06:16 | <boblet> | guess alt text is the img element’s textContent |
| 06:18 | <boblet> | Hixie: so for an image is the img element’s textContent it’s alt text? |
| 06:18 | <boblet> | (or anyone else) |
| 06:19 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: oh yeah, the \t\n is because it acts like <pre> so whitespace is significant. not sure this is a good thing actually |
| 06:22 | <boblet> | might email the list about this |
| 06:39 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: mind if I include that template in an email to WHATWG list? |
| 06:41 | <JonathanNeal> | yea, use any part of it |
| 06:41 | <JonathanNeal> | totally |
| 07:25 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: got word from Mike that @src isn’t part of textcontent |
| 07:25 | <boblet> | JonathanNeal: do you have a ref for where you learned about it? |
| 11:02 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: It seems the ePub people need a small amount of cluebat applied on the virtues of XML and relative difficulty of adding a HTML parser |
| 11:02 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: Also, what did gsnedders post that was good? |
| 11:03 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: I think there is not clear consensus in the ePub WG about that particular requirement |
| 11:03 | <MikeSmith> | certainly Murata-san is highly skeptical about it |
| 11:04 | <MikeSmith> | and given that he was one of the members of the WG that came up with XML to begin with, as well as somebody that has invested a huge amount of his professional work in XML-related technologies… |
| 11:05 | <MikeSmith> | well, you'd think they might be inclined to listen to Murata-san very carefully when he says something about XML |
| 11:05 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: the gsnedders thing was about the last IEBlog posting |
| 11:07 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I would ask you if I could borrow a loaf tin today, presuming you have one, but with the eather now… |
| 11:08 | <jgraham> | Yeah, the ether is often a problem around here |
| 11:08 | <gsnedders> | *weather |
| 11:09 | <gsnedders> | I fail. |
| 11:10 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: You are welcome to borrow a loaf tin |
| 11:10 | <jgraham> | If you like |
| 11:10 | <gsnedders> | I think I'm more just put off by the idea of getting it from you in this weather :) |
| 11:10 | jgraham | still can't find gsnedders insightful comment |
| 11:10 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: All I did was link to http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/07/16/how-ie9-platform-preview-feedback-changed-the-javascript-standard.aspx |
| 11:13 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: I can maybe drop a loaf tin off at your house |
| 11:15 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Although if you are making bread you can do without |
| 11:15 | <jgraham> | I guess if you are making some sort of cake, it is harder |
| 12:07 | <MikeSmith> | http://twitter.com/pl4n3/status/18757984398 |
| 12:08 | <MikeSmith> | http://pl4n3.blogspot.com/2010/07/bulletjs-javascript-physics-engine.html |
| 13:54 | <gsnedders> | http://perfectionkills.com/javascript-quiz/ |
| 13:54 | <gsnedders> | (I'd seen the original quiz linked to at the top of that, but not that one) |
| 13:54 | <gsnedders> | (I got 10/14) |
| 13:55 | <gsnedders> | 4, 9, 10, 12 is what I got wrong |
| 13:56 | <gsnedders> | (4 I think has changed in ES5, which is why I got that wrong) |
| 13:57 | <gsnedders> | (9 is evil, 10 I really should've got, and 12 I don't get the right answer) |
| 13:58 | <gsnedders> | Oh, wait |
| 13:58 | <gsnedders> | Duh |
| 13:59 | <gsnedders> | No, 4 is right under ES5 |
| 14:02 | <Workshiva> | I missed 13 |
| 14:03 | <Workshiva> | Never really thought about constructors returning values |
| 14:03 | <Workshiva> | I guess I should have assumed it wouldn't be on the test if it was the obvious answer :) |
| 14:06 | Philip` | gets 6 wrong |
| 14:07 | <Philip`> | (That is, six of the questions, not number 6) |
| 14:11 | <gsnedders> | Workshiva: Only 13 though? |
| 14:11 | <gsnedders> | 9, 10 and 12 I probably should've got |
| 14:12 | <gsnedders> | s/9/4/ |
| 14:12 | <gsnedders> | In all three cases I actually thought of what the right answer was, and the right reason why, then decided against it |
| 14:28 | <Workshiva> | gsnedders: Yeah, only 13 |