| 01:03 | <MikeSmith> | http://twitter.com/mattmay/status/25070606712 |
| 01:03 | <MikeSmith> | 「Are web devs REALLY that afraid of namespaces? Only people I've heard complain about it are (or were) browser devs. http://bit.ly/b99D0I 」 |
| 01:04 | <tabatkins> | To be honest, that's probably because most web authors don't know what namespaces are. *At best*, they're just part of the copypasta header they use on every page without knowing what it means. |
| 01:09 | <MikeSmith> | sicking: ↑ |
| 01:10 | <sicking> | MikeSmith: i seem to be lacking the scrollback you're pointing to |
| 01:10 | <MikeSmith> | http://twitter.com/mattmay/status/25070606712 |
| 01:10 | <MikeSmith> | 「Are web devs REALLY that afraid of namespaces? Only people I've heard complain about it are (or were) browser devs. http://bit.ly/b99D0I 」 |
| 01:11 | <MikeSmith> | …which cites your recent message on the subject |
| 01:11 | <AryehGregor> | "Waiting for a2.twimg.com..." |
| 01:12 | <MikeSmith> | AryehGregor: hey~ long time no talk — I seem to not be on here at the same time as you lately |
| 01:12 | <MikeSmith> | hope things are going well for your |
| 01:12 | <MikeSmith> | *you |
| 01:14 | <AryehGregor> | They are, thanks. |
| 01:14 | <AryehGregor> | Pretty sure we've talked at some point in the last couple of weeks. |
| 01:20 | <MikeSmith> | AryehGregor: ok — I guess it's due to my "long term loss of short term memory" issue |
| 01:21 | <MikeSmith> | I remember stuff better that happened 2 months ago than I do from 2 weeks ago… |
| 01:23 | <sicking> | hrm, i keep loosing connection :( |
| 01:24 | <AryehGregor> | sicking, would you be a good person to review https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=586763, once I have a patch that's reviewable? |
| 01:25 | <sicking> | AryehGregor: sure |
| 01:25 | <AryehGregor> | Okay, thanks. |
| 01:25 | <sicking> | AryehGregor: though i'll probably check against spec rather than against other impls |
| 01:25 | <AryehGregor> | I'm doing both. |
| 01:26 | <sicking> | AryehGregor: if gecko and other browsers disagree, and there's a very logical default, then we should probably use the logical one |
| 01:26 | <AryehGregor> | (and deciding what seems most reasonable when there's disagreement) |
| 01:26 | <AryehGregor> | Yes, that's the principle I'm abiding by. |
| 01:26 | <AryehGregor> | I've got all the rationale for my changes in the bug, I think. |
| 02:03 | <AryehGregor> | sicking, okay, I've got a patch there for you to review. I've CC'd you. |
| 02:14 | <sicking> | AryehGregor: r? me so that it ends up in my queue |
| 02:46 | <MikeSmith> | is it possible to change the width of the line that's rendered for <del> text content? |
| 02:46 | <MikeSmith> | text-decoration=line-through |
| 02:50 | <MikeSmith> | ah, ok |
| 02:50 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#text-decoration |
| 02:51 | <MikeSmith> | text-decoration: underline; |
| 02:51 | <MikeSmith> | text-decoration: navy dotted underline; /* Ignored in CSS1/CSS2 UAs */ |
| 02:52 | <MikeSmith> | hmm |
| 02:53 | <MikeSmith> | that still doesn't allow me to set the thickness |
| 03:03 | <jgornick> | Hey guys, quick question... Attributes values can't have escaped strings like: <myelement myattribute="\"this is a test\"" /> the value needs to be HTML entity encoded? |
| 03:31 | <MikeSmith> | jgornick: yeah |
| 05:26 | <tw2113> | good evening |
| 08:26 | <jgraham> | Hmm, element creation is atomic from the point of view of the spec, so I can't see how you could get different behaviour depending on attribute order |
| 08:26 | <jgraham> | Or am I missing something? |
| 08:26 | <jgraham> | (latest message on whatwg@) |
| 08:43 | <Peter-> | annevk: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46123 |
| 11:19 | <gsnedders> | Oh yay! Microsoft Office Outlook Web Access! |
| 11:20 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: May I be the first to offer my commiserations? |
| 11:21 | <jgraham> | (presumably this is to encourage you not to use your university mail account? Or to run an illicit webmail server of your own?) |
| 11:24 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Encourage you to not use your university mail account where they send important stuff. |
| 11:25 | gsnedders | has already missed an important email on his second day |
| 11:25 | <gsnedders> | Oh well. |
| 11:25 | <jgraham> | Presumably you get imap access? I mean they're not *insane*, right? |
| 11:26 | <Ms2ger> | Probably not |
| 11:26 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: IMAP access? You assume they're sane. :) |
| 11:26 | <annevk> | unknown use cases from the future |
| 11:27 | <gsnedders> | So, um, it uses an Exchange server within the univeristy's internal network. So, setup VPN and use IMAP to access the Exchange server? This is totally undocumented, but the "about" page in the webmail gives enough information to set this up I think… |
| 11:27 | <annevk> | please make them work now |
| 11:27 | <annevk> | o_O |
| 11:30 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: You are seriously telling me that you can't just connect to imap.gla.ac.uk:443 and log in? |
| 11:30 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: does OWA work in Opera? |
| 11:30 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Seriously. |
| 11:31 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: OWA? |
| 11:31 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Outlook Web App? |
| 11:31 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Outlook Web Access |
| 11:31 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: It appears to. |
| 11:31 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Than is in-fucking-sane. Are you sure the CS department don't have their own mail server? |
| 11:32 | <jgraham> | I would pretty much expect them to not put up with the setup you jut described |
| 11:32 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: At least in the Light version (this is Outlook 2007) |
| 11:32 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Staff have an entirely separate system which allows IMAP. |
| 11:32 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: So, uh, I guess no staff member has cared enough to get it set up. |
| 11:33 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: There's no separate CS server at all. |
| 11:33 | <gsnedders> | Anyhow, I have a CS lecture to get to… somewhere. |
| 11:33 | gsnedders | knows what building, but that's all |
| 11:33 | <Philip`> | Look for other confused-looking people, and follow them |
| 11:33 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: is "light" version something non-Ajaxy? |
| 11:34 | <jgraham> | Your homepage suffers from xkcd:773 |
| 11:34 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: I wasn't paying much attention. |
| 11:34 | <hsivonen> | does Opera support insertAdjacentHTML? |
| 11:34 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: But I think it does a bit |
| 11:34 | <gsnedders> | IIRC no |
| 11:34 | <gsnedders> | Anyhow, I'm off. |
| 11:35 | <hsivonen> | I'm just wondering how OWA could work in Opera unless they serve different code given OWA's reliance of createContextualFragment quirkiness when the context is "html" |
| 11:36 | <jgraham> | http://www.gla.ac.uk/services/it/forstudents/email/clients/ |
| 11:36 | <jgraham> | That could be wrong of course |
| 11:36 | <hsivonen> | annevk: thanks for the link. You can probably guess what my remarks here would be if the document weren't secret. |
| 11:38 | <jgraham> | link? |
| 11:39 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/WAI-Activities-DoC |
| 11:42 | <hsivonen> | It's ridiculous that Flash Player on Mac doesn't have an autoupdater |
| 11:42 | <hsivonen> | (or if it does, it's not working) |
| 12:10 | <MikeSmith> | if I have a position=absolute element and its height is greater than the height of the viewport, how do I get a browser to enable scrolling within it? |
| 12:11 | <MikeSmith> | that is, if I also have height=auto on the element |
| 12:11 | <MikeSmith> | I tried overflow-y=scroll but that doesn't work unless I also set an explicit height |
| 12:17 | <jgraham> | http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/bz/archives/020683.html is funny |
| 12:18 | <Dashiva> | MikeSmith: Would max-height: 100% work? |
| 12:19 | <MikeSmith> | Dashiva: will give it a try |
| 12:20 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, that causes it to be rendered at only 24 px or so |
| 12:21 | <MikeSmith> | due to the way I have it marked up, I guess |
| 12:21 | <MikeSmith> | maybe I can try making it draggable |
| 12:22 | <MikeSmith> | hey, that works |
| 12:22 | <MikeSmith> | it's better than scroll bars too |
| 12:22 | <MikeSmith> | I hate scroll bars |
| 12:22 | <MikeSmith> | don't know if a UX professional would judge it to be good or not |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: the comments are disturbing |
| 12:24 | <Dashiva> | When in doubt, "This site works best in 1920x1080" |
| 12:24 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 12:27 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: are you still experiencing the Ubuntu jumpiness during CPU-intensive tasks? |
| 12:28 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: as of today, things look good to me... |
| 12:31 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: It got better a while back when I rebooted |
| 12:31 | <jgraham> | Although it could just be less memory pressure now |
| 12:31 | <MikeSmith> | foolip: you there? |
| 12:33 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: good point. |
| 12:34 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I wonder if crashing X or suspend/resume have the same effect as rebooting |
| 13:02 | <annevk> | jgraham, especially the comments |
| 13:08 | <foolip> | MikeSmith, I'm here |
| 13:08 | <MikeSmith> | foolip: hey |
| 13:09 | <MikeSmith> | so I did briefly turn off bugmail to public-html |
| 13:09 | <foolip> | ok |
| 13:09 | <MikeSmith> | but I was told to turn it back on |
| 13:09 | <MikeSmith> | and there has been a subsequent discussion on public-html |
| 13:10 | <foolip> | ok, wasn't the idea to send mail for new bugs? |
| 13:10 | <MikeSmith> | the problem with that is that it will also send notifications for spam |
| 13:10 | <foolip> | I think I've read all of that discussion |
| 13:10 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 13:10 | <MikeSmith> | foolip: if you would comment on that thread, that'd be great |
| 13:11 | <foolip> | as I remember, there was no controversy to have an opinion on? |
| 13:11 | <foolip> | will look again |
| 13:12 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, there's only very little spam |
| 13:12 | <MikeSmith> | controversy is just about that level of bug notifications is appropriate for the list |
| 13:12 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah, true |
| 13:12 | <MikeSmith> | currently at least |
| 13:12 | <foolip> | what was the name of the thread? |
| 13:12 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: so as long as people can live with that small amount, I guess we can re-configure to have it send notices only for new bugs |
| 13:13 | <foolip> | if spam is a problem, can't we make bugmail be moderated, or will that double the amount of time spent on spam by someone? |
| 13:13 | <MikeSmith> | foolip: I will get you a url to archive |
| 13:14 | <MikeSmith> | no, I really don't want to make it moderated |
| 13:14 | <MikeSmith> | I don't think there's any way I can enable non-team moderator access to the list admin UI |
| 13:14 | <MikeSmith> | so it would mean I'd get stuck with moderating it all |
| 13:14 | <foolip> | oh well |
| 13:14 | <virtuelv> | whoah |
| 13:15 | <virtuelv> | everyone turn off JS on twitter |
| 13:15 | <virtuelv> | http://oh.no/#"@onmouseover=";alert('xss')"; does what you hope it wouldn't |
| 13:15 | <virtuelv> | it also allows style |
| 13:16 | <MikeSmith> | foolip: heh, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/thread.html#msg133 |
| 13:16 | <MikeSmith> | the thread is "Bug mail (Was: [Bug 10479] add role=radiogroup to details element)" |
| 13:16 | <MikeSmith> | foolip: you initiated it :) |
| 13:17 | <foolip> | yes, I've found it |
| 13:17 | <MikeSmith> | virtuelv: wow |
| 13:17 | <virtuelv> | MikeSmith: yup |
| 13:17 | <virtuelv> | it seems like they're failing input validation 101 |
| 13:18 | <virtuelv> | which, in this case be, "validate the generated output" |
| 13:18 | <foolip> | MikeSmith, is it othermaciej's suggestion you want a comment on? |
| 13:19 | <MikeSmith> | foolip: yeah please |
| 13:20 | <MikeSmith> | I think that asking the people who are still actively reading the list what their opinion is about the bugmail settings is not a complete answer |
| 13:20 | <foolip> | hehe |
| 13:54 | <hsivonen> | the Old Twitter unescaped HTML named character references, so it seems that keeping plain text plain isn't twitter's strong point |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | tomorrow I'm gonna present at a Flex meeting at Adobe |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | on HTML5 |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | ordering bulletproof vests online is tricky |
| 14:00 | <MikeSmith> | just be prepared to call in the air strike at the appropriate time |
| 14:02 | <MikeSmith> | and make sure to get Kurtz's diary before you escape |
| 14:02 | <MikeSmith> | a lot of gamers miss that part |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | I don't really know what to say... "Hi, my name is Anne; together with some other people I work on HTML5. We set out six years to eat your lunch..." |
| 14:08 | <MikeSmith> | s/eat your lunch/drink your milkshake/ |
| 14:08 | <MikeSmith> | but anyway that weren't the plan that was set out with back then |
| 14:08 | <MikeSmith> | afaict |
| 14:09 | MikeSmith | is listening to Teenage Dream by T. Rex from Zinc Alloy and the Hidden Riders of Tomorrow (Deluxe Version) (✮✮✮✮✮) |
| 14:09 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: ↑ |
| 14:10 | <annevk> | certainly was in the back of my mind |
| 14:10 | <MikeSmith> | that song is about the Plan |
| 14:10 | <annevk> | heh |
| 14:10 | <MikeSmith> | "Whatever happened to the teenage dream?" |
| 14:10 | <MikeSmith> | I am pretty sure that is the official theme song for The Plan |
| 14:12 | <hsivonen> | annevk: I thought Web Apps 1.0 wasn't Flash-motivated but Avalon-motivated |
| 14:14 | <annevk> | sorry, yeah, I meant plugins in general |
| 14:16 | MikeSmith | is listening to This Year by The Thrills from Teenager (✮✮✮✮✮) |
| 14:17 | <MikeSmith> | that's the song for the New Plan |
| 14:17 | <MikeSmith> | "I know, this year could be our year, this year could be our year" |
| 14:18 | <annevk> | I'm surprised Opera supports all this color crap you keep sending me |
| 14:18 | <annevk> | I have no idea how to generate that myself :) |
| 14:19 | <annevk> | meanwhile krijnh seems to simply strip out the markup it uses |
| 14:26 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, is setting draggable=true on an element not sufficient for making it draggable? |
| 14:26 | <MikeSmith> | something else I need to set? |
| 14:27 | <MikeSmith> | I mean, just for making it draggable -- I don't actually need to drop it anywhere in particular |
| 14:28 | <MikeSmith> | just to drag it to read the part that overflowed outside the viewport |
| 14:28 | <MikeSmith> | so, dragging it as an alternative to scrolling |
| 14:28 | <annevk> | might only work in Firefox? |
| 14:29 | <MikeSmith> | I thought everybody had some degree of drag-n-drop implemented at this point? |
| 14:30 | <MikeSmith> | after messing with this, I have to say, the dragging metaphor seems a lot more real-world-like natural than scrollbarring |
| 14:31 | <MikeSmith> | from a UX point of view, scrollbarring seems really suboptimal |
| 14:31 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: otoh, not having a clue about scrollable areas is bad UX, too |
| 14:32 | <MikeSmith> | not having a clue? |
| 14:32 | <MikeSmith> | a UI clue you mean? |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: right |
| 14:32 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, true |
| 14:32 | <MikeSmith> | what I did for that is change the cursor |
| 14:32 | <MikeSmith> | to "move" |
| 14:33 | <MikeSmith> | but I guess it should have some more obvious visual clue as weel |
| 14:33 | <MikeSmith> | that is, one that doesn't require hovering over the element first |
| 14:35 | <Philip`> | PDF readers seem to have done the drag-to-scroll thing since forever, but it hasn't really caught on anywhere else |
| 14:35 | <Philip`> | maybe because it conflicts with drag-to-select-text |
| 14:36 | <MikeSmith> | Philip`: I guess I have noticed that in PDF readers yet |
| 14:36 | <MikeSmith> | particular readers? does Acrobat do that? |
| 14:37 | <Philip`> | Yes |
| 14:37 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 14:37 | <Philip`> | (when you've got the hand tool selected, not the text-selection tool) |
| 14:38 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 14:39 | <MikeSmith> | I think the PDF format is way underappreciated |
| 14:39 | MikeSmith | is not a PDF-basher |
| 14:39 | <MikeSmith> | like, the stuff generated out of ConTeXt |
| 14:40 | <Philip`> | When we got electronic whiteboards (basically a projector plus touch-sensitive board) at school, one of the teachers seemed to love using it to display PDF files since he could use his real hand to drag the document up and down the board |
| 14:40 | <hsivonen> | how is the twitter XSS being exploited? |
| 14:40 | <MikeSmith> | and pdfTeX |
| 14:41 | <MikeSmith> | Philip`: yeah, like that |
| 14:41 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: the biggest flaw of PDF itself is it's main feature: that the text doesn't reflow |
| 14:41 | <MikeSmith> | yup |
| 14:41 | <hsivonen> | (yes, I know about the accessibility stuff. It doesn't really count here) |
| 14:42 | <hsivonen> | other than that, the biggest flaw of PDF is Adobe Reader |
| 14:42 | <Philip`> | I've never really been concerned about lack of reflow |
| 14:42 | <Philip`> | since it's trivial to zoom and scroll to read whatever I need |
| 14:42 | <jgraham> | I find the inability to select text in logical order to be the worst thing |
| 14:42 | <jgraham> | Lack of reflow is second |
| 14:43 | <MikeSmith> | non-reflow-as-feature is not unique to PDF -- it's something that people also want for HTML-based presentations and such |
| 14:43 | <annevk> | need for a plugin first |
| 14:43 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., scribd |
| 14:43 | <annevk> | imo |
| 14:43 | <hsivonen> | I think Adobe Reader is the worst. Then lack of reflow when the document should have been published as HTML instead. then text selection. |
| 14:43 | <jgraham> | annevk: I'm not really interested as PDF-as-part-of-the-web so have never used a plugin |
| 14:43 | <hsivonen> | fourth the occasional occurrence of PDFs that come from 90s workflows and require font magic that only Adobe Reader does |
| 14:44 | <Philip`> | The most frequent pain I encounter is copying-and-pasting fl ligatures - it ought to get automatically decomposed but doesn't (at least in Okular) |
| 14:44 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I want native PDF support in Firefox but I haven't used a plug-in since I decided the Adobe was too unstable in the Netscape 2.0 days |
| 14:45 | <jgraham> | I don't want to encourasge people to use PDF on the web |
| 14:45 | <hsivonen> | PDF 1.4: good |
| 14:45 | <jgraham> | So I don't want native support |
| 14:45 | <hsivonen> | Adobe Reader: bad |
| 14:46 | <jgraham> | Since it isn't really a format that plays well with the whole web ideal |
| 14:46 | <Philip`> | Is Google's in-browser PDF renderer considered a good thing or a bad thing? |
| 14:46 | <Philip`> | (The one you get when you say "View" on PDF attachments in Gmail) |
| 14:46 | <jgraham> | (what I really want is TeX-quality typography in HTML, including for maths, so that people stop using PDF for e.g. scientific papers) |
| 14:47 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I want that, too |
| 14:47 | <Philip`> | jgraham: You'd probably have to solve diagrams and graphs in HTML, too |
| 14:47 | <jgraham> | Philip`: SVG |
| 14:47 | <jgraham> | In principle |
| 14:48 | <jgraham> | I mean it is not a-priori obvious that outputting a diagram to SVG has to be worse than outputting it to PDF |
| 14:48 | <jgraham> | Although that turns out to be true with much current content-creation software |
| 14:48 | <Philip`> | You need the text and the shapes to be aligned correctly, which means you need to know the font metrics in advance |
| 14:49 | <Philip`> | and you want the text to match the text in the rest of the document else it looks ugly |
| 14:49 | <jgraham> | Right, but doesn't @font-face solve that? |
| 14:49 | <jgraham> | Philip`: A surprising number of papers are ugly through not matching text in figures / body |
| 14:49 | <Philip`> | Probably not unless all platforms' font renderers use precisely the same metrics |
| 14:49 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: only for fonts with reasonable licenses |
| 14:50 | <Philip`> | (which they probably don't, because of sub-pixel positioning etc) |
| 14:50 | <hsivonen> | for fonts with unreasonable licenses, we really need the ability for SVG paths to have text alternatives |
| 14:50 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: that's an issue with PDF as well |
| 14:50 | <jgraham> | Philip`: I expect you can get good enough compared to the aesthetic taste of most scientists |
| 14:50 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: oops, I misread what you said |
| 14:50 | <Philip`> | jgraham: Lots are ugly, but I'd prefer not to switch to a technology that forces all to be ugly |
| 14:51 | <jgraham> | Philip`: I would trade a little ugliness for much improved usability |
| 14:51 | <hsivonen> | does SVG already support positioning individual glyphs if you want to do that? |
| 14:51 | karlushi | guesses he missed the twitter xss. |
| 14:51 | <Philip`> | I suppose what I'd really want is a high-quality TikZ-to-SVG-and-MathML converter, and then I'd be happy |
| 14:52 | <hsivonen> | karlushi: I wonder if it was on #newtwitter only. I'm still on old twitter. |
| 14:52 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: I thought it was the opposite |
| 14:52 | <karlushi> | I'm using an app, and it seems it was only the Web browser UI which was the victim. |
| 14:53 | <Philip`> | (TikZ seems a crazy idea but somehow it actually works and is really useful) |
| 14:53 | <Philip`> | (and I find it easier than using WYSIWYG editors for diagrams) |
| 14:54 | <Ms2ger> | Philip`++ |
| 14:54 | <Philip`> | (so it'd be nice to have something like that for SVG, instead of being stuck with Inkscape) |
| 14:58 | <hsivonen> | karlushi: I'm dogfooding the Web Platform, so I don't use Twitter clients |
| 14:59 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: how can I tell if my account was exploited? |
| 15:00 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: I have no idea |
| 15:00 | <jgraham> | I am jsut passing on the small amounts of information I picked up |
| 15:00 | <hsivonen> | (well, actually, I'm using Gwibber for notification of incoming @hsivonen mentions, but only because annevk's WG isn't done yet.) |
| 15:01 | <Rik`_> | hsivonen: in fact it was only on oldtwitter |
| 15:01 | <hsivonen> | Rik`_: ok |
| 15:02 | <Philip`> | Ooh, sounds like tex4ht might do TikZ->SVG already |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | http://www.xml.com/axml/notes/TheCorrectTitle.html XML could've been MAGMA (via mutter) |
| 15:11 | <zcorpan_> | would then xhtml be mhtml? |
| 15:12 | <Dashiva> | annevk: I'm a bit disappointed they used such a bad voting system to decide |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | They should have used proportional representation |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | We would be required to refer to it as MAGMA 4/13 of the time |
| 15:16 | <annevk> | you guys are putting too much thought into this |
| 15:18 | <Dashiva> | They ignored a third of the group in the final decision, that seems big to me |
| 15:19 | <Ms2ger> | XMAGMA? |
| 15:30 | <Dashiva> | Get out, MikeSmith |
| 15:31 | <Dashiva> | No pretending you're Norwegian on my twitter |
| 15:31 | <MikeSmith> | who's to say I'm not really Norwegian? |
| 15:32 | <Dashiva> | We all know you're Japanese |
| 15:39 | <MikeSmith> | speaking of Japanese, I heard that the following is somehow Japan-related: http://theshrinechi.blogspot.com/2010/05/kool-keith-howlin-wolf-q-bert-japan.html |
| 15:51 | <Philip`> | At the current rate of reviewing canvas test cases, it looks like it'll be finished after a mere 1.2 years |
| 15:52 | <jgraham> | I am not sure how we will cope when we get thousands of testcases |
| 15:53 | <jgraham> | e.g. AryehGregor's tests |
| 15:57 | <zcorpan_> | maybe it'll be finished in 2022 |
| 16:07 | <jgraham> | Well say be get 250,000 tests and review 25/week, that is 10,000 weeks or about 200 years |
| 16:11 | <jgraham> | (which would imply that we can't have more than 12,500 tests with the current system to be done by 2022) |
| 16:11 | <jgraham> | (whcih is clearly far too few) |
| 16:11 | <jgraham> | Now someone can point out why my maths is wrong |
| 16:12 | <workmad3> | jgraham: doesn't take into account multiple people/committees reviewing test for different sections? |
| 16:12 | <workmad3> | I don't know if that's actually happening... but it would make sense |
| 16:14 | <payman> | jgraham: You just need 200 reviewers and you are done in a year! |
| 16:14 | <workmad3> | payman: ooh, and if we get 9 women, we can have a baby made in a month! |
| 16:14 | <jgraham> | In either case we souls have to change the current system, which isn;t much like those :) |
| 16:15 | <payman> | workmad3: quite possibly! :D |
| 16:16 | <jgraham> | s/souls/would/ |
| 16:17 | <payman> | workmad3: If only we could quantize a baby! |
| 16:17 | <workmad3> | hmm... maybe if we took one apart to see how it worked... |
| 16:18 | payman | is afraid :S |
| 16:19 | <workmad3> | too far? :) |
| 16:35 | <jgraham> | Philip`: Do you mind increasing the tolerance on your toDataURL.jpeg tests? |
| 17:03 | <gsnedders> | yay! there is really hard-to-find documentation on IMAP access to student email! |
| 17:09 | <Philip`> | jgraham: No |
| 17:09 | <Philip`> | jgraham: Just the one that was mentioned on the list? |
| 17:12 | <jgraham> | Philip`: I don't know of any others |
| 17:13 | <Philip`> | There are others but they use default/high quality |
| 17:13 | <Philip`> | It sounds like only the one with 0.01 quality was exceeding the tolerance |
| 17:13 | <Philip`> | since nobody has complained about the others yet |
| 17:13 | <jgraham> | Philip`: Just changing that one for now would be fine |
| 17:14 | <jgraham> | Also, if you could update the test that throws NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR to throw TypeError, that would be great |
| 17:15 | <Philip`> | Is WebIDL correct in requiring that? |
| 17:15 | <jgraham> | No idea |
| 17:15 | <Philip`> | If people are uncertain, maybe it's safer to make it accept any exception |
| 17:15 | <jgraham> | But it's not like we don't have other tests that will have to change if a spec changes |
| 17:15 | <Philip`> | and then the exact exception type is someone else's problem |
| 17:15 | <Philip`> | Yeah, I suppose it's easy enough to change again |
| 17:15 | <jgraham> | I would somewhat prefer to have a specific type |
| 17:16 | <Philip`> | For the cross-origin tests it seems I can simply use http://test2.w3.org/html/tests/approved/images/yellow.png (as long I don't want to use any not-yet-approved images) |
| 17:17 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: BTW re: bugmail, at this point my main priority is that we *stop* getting bugmail for random keyword additions |
| 17:18 | <jgraham> | I am OK with getting it for new bugs, but I am not OK with getting content-free mails from random fiddling with a11y keywords (or indeed any keywords) |
| 17:19 | <jgraham> | (that is, I consider any change that leads to not getting those emails to be a relative win) |
| 17:20 | <david_carlisle> | hsivonen: just to let you know I do sometimes do something other than moan that the html5 parser is all wrong, validator.nu says it likes this html5/svg/mathml document |
| 17:20 | <david_carlisle> | http://monet.nag.co.uk/~dpc/d02agf.html#MAT |
| 17:22 | <jgraham> | david_carlisle: sweet |
| 17:37 | <Philip`> | jgraham: Pushed some changes |
| 17:37 | <david_carlisle> | just need to get it working in ie9... |
| 17:39 | <jgraham> | IE9 has MathML support? Or you will do some magic to work around that? |
| 17:39 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: It does into the right namespace, AFAIK |
| 17:39 | <david_carlisle> | mathplayer will render the maths, IE9 has regressed support for extensions but I have a plan.. (I think) |
| 17:40 | <jgraham> | Oh, mathplayer, yeah, I forgot about that |
| 17:48 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: understood (about the bugmail) |
| 19:10 | gsnedders | gets bitten again by the fact that X clipboards don't persist beyond the application's lifetime… ergh. |
| 19:22 | <Dashiva> | It's a feature, really |
| 19:23 | <Philip`> | Data loss is my favourite feature in any program |
| 19:32 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: Data loss is such a negative way to phrase it |
| 19:36 | <Philip`> | Liberating data from the shackles of existence, then? |
| 19:38 | <Dashiva> | Well, if you really cared about the data you would save it immediately, not keep it in the clipboard |
| 19:52 | <Hixie> | jgraham: i don't know how to get rid of the gotos. Every time I try to do 'while' and 'repeat...until' and 'for' loops, I end up making the text orders of magnitude harder to understand. It's like English doesn't have good structured loops, or at least I haven't worked out good wording for them. |
| 19:53 | <Hixie> | jgraham: if you have any suggestions for replacing gotos with structured loops, file bugs with suggested text, i'm certainly up for it. |
| 20:57 | <gsnedders> | Hmm, anyone know something with leak detection on armel Linux? |
| 20:58 | gsnedders | can't see this leaks on anything apart from ARM |
| 20:58 | <gsnedders> | Gah. :\ |
| 23:38 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, nested ul case is addressed with dbaron's cycle() proposal |
