| 03:52 | <jgautier> | can anyone help me out with canvas? |
| 04:08 | <gsnedders> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4300504/jump-in-running-time-of-repeated-splice-in-webkit — O(2^n) behaviour in JSC apparently. Nice. |
| 04:34 | <MikeSmith> | gsnedders: I think it's not in JSC |
| 04:34 | <MikeSmith> | or not just in JSC |
| 04:37 | <MikeSmith> | because I see the same behavior when I try it in Chrome |
| 07:06 | <hsivonen> | Google browser sniffs, episode N+1: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614864 |
| 07:10 | <gsnedders> | You'd think with the evangelisim they do externally to get sites working with Chrome they could do more internally… |
| 07:40 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: well, it looks like they've done enough internal evangelism to get Chrome working. |
| 08:34 | <hsivonen> | what would be a good forum for getting Apache CGI advice? |
| 08:34 | <hsivonen> | (I want to limit the number of concurrently executed CGI scripts) |
| 08:35 | <hsivonen> | maybe serverfault.com? |
| 08:44 | <hsivonen> | I posted on serverfault: http://serverfault.com/questions/206895/how-to-limit-the-number-of-concurrent-cgi-script-invocations-in-apache-2-2 |
| 08:46 | <hsivonen> | In case anyone wonders, the Friday Validator.nu outage was caused by a single host rapidly GETting a lot of pages from bugzilla.validator.nu |
| 08:50 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: how did you fix it? |
| 08:51 | <MikeSmith> | just blocked the IP of that host? |
| 08:51 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: blocked the IP of that host and tweaked overall connection timeouts |
| 08:52 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: so it's not really fixed |
| 08:52 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 08:52 | <hsivonen> | I restored the timeout I had on the old server |
| 08:52 | <hsivonen> | I had failed to restore those when moving to a fresh VM |
| 08:53 | <hsivonen> | I'm still rather unhappy about the DoS killing 2.5 hours from my Friday night |
| 08:53 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, that sucks |
| 08:54 | <MikeSmith> | stuff like this always seems to happen at the worst times |
| 08:54 | <hsivonen> | I wonder if there's a way to tell Linux to always keep a RAM reserve for ssh+su+shell+nano |
| 08:55 | <hsivonen> | that would have helped *a lot* |
| 08:55 | <MikeSmith> | you mean because you couldn't even shell in? |
| 08:55 | <hsivonen> | ssh'ing into the server during the incident was ridiculously slow |
| 08:55 | <MikeSmith> | ssh in? |
| 08:55 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:55 | <MikeSmith> | well, that's something your hosting service should provide |
| 08:55 | <hsivonen> | which is why it took me 2.5 hours to resolve the situation |
| 08:55 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:56 | <hsivonen> | because I didn't want to just flip the virtual power switch out of fear of corrupting some files |
| 08:56 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:56 | <MikeSmith> | I was going to say, my service provides a special admin console |
| 08:56 | <MikeSmith> | but I think for this case that wouldn't have been what you needed anyway |
| 08:56 | <hsivonen> | fwiw, Gandi has a virtual console thingy, which I guess doesn't require RAM for sshd--only shell |
| 08:57 | <hsivonen> | but the host for the other VM doesn't provide that |
| 08:57 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:57 | <hsivonen> | but on balance, the other host keeps backups |
| 08:57 | <hsivonen> | and has customer service |
| 08:57 | <MikeSmith> | my hosting service gives me space for backups, but I have to run them myself |
| 08:58 | <hsivonen> | the VM that runs over at Gandi has no important data on it |
| 08:58 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:58 | <MikeSmith> | but this one has the bugzilla DB |
| 08:58 | <hsivonen> | yeah |
| 08:58 | <hsivonen> | I don't have any Gandi disaster recovery experience |
| 08:59 | <hsivonen> | but I assume that at a lower price with larger volumes and without a promise of backup, you shouldn't expect disaster recovery help |
| 09:00 | <hsivonen> | also, with the other host, I can take a bus to their office and go complain face to face in the same jurisdiction in the worst case |
| 09:01 | <Ms2ger> | "It's not like registering a character set with IANA is a particularly difficult or drawn-out process" |
| 09:01 | <hsivonen> | Ms2ger: haha. where's the quote from? |
| 09:01 | <Ms2ger> | http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11423 |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I set up mirrors of the validator.nu sources here: |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | https://github.com/validator |
| 09:09 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ok. what does this mean in practice? |
| 09:09 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: do you have some kind of git-svn bridge pushing stuff to svn still? |
| 09:09 | <MikeSmith> | pushing the other way |
| 09:09 | <MikeSmith> | from svn to git |
| 09:10 | <hsivonen> | ok. what's the benefit of git in that case? |
| 09:10 | <hsivonen> | also, why git/github? didn't you ask about moving to hg before? |
| 09:10 | <MikeSmith> | it gives us public diffs, for one thing |
| 09:10 | <hsivonen> | ok |
| 09:11 | <MikeSmith> | hg is great too, but as far as hosting goes, I've been using github a lot lately and have found it quite nice in a lot of ways |
| 09:11 | <hsivonen> | fwiw, I think svn sucks. I don't know if I should be wanting git or hg, but hg is currently more familiar, so git feels like yet another thing to learn |
| 09:12 | <hsivonen> | I see. I gather people really like github. |
| 09:12 | <hsivonen> | Is there a proper git plug-in for Eclipse these days? |
| 09:12 | <MikeSmith> | I think there are bigger network effects around github currently, compared to bitbucket |
| 09:12 | <MikeSmith> | not sure |
| 09:12 | <MikeSmith> | I've not used one myself, at least |
| 09:13 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: thanks for arranging public diffs |
| 09:13 | <hsivonen> | I really want to move away from svn, but I'm not yet sure what to think of git vs. hg |
| 09:14 | <MikeSmith> | it's never been clear to me why cvsdude does diffs the way they do |
| 09:14 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I think github is worth taking a look at when you have time |
| 09:15 | <hsivonen> | all I've done on github so far is registering an account in order to file one bug |
| 09:15 | <MikeSmith> | if you set up an account, let me know and I will switch the ownership to you |
| 09:15 | <MikeSmith> | oh, so you do have an account? |
| 09:16 | <hsivonen> | I'm https://github.com/hsivonen |
| 09:16 | <hsivonen> | but I have about zero git skills |
| 09:16 | <MikeSmith> | weird, I looked for you but didn't find you for some reason |
| 09:17 | <hsivonen> | I've only had an account since Nov 12 |
| 09:19 | <MikeSmith> | OK, you should now have ownership of https://github.com/organizations/validator/ |
| 09:19 | <MikeSmith> | settings are at https://github.com/organizations/validator/settings |
| 09:21 | <MikeSmith> | as far as advantages of github, another thing I think is great is that it allows people to easily forking repos |
| 09:22 | <MikeSmith> | and then provides an easy way to send "pull requests" |
| 09:23 | <MikeSmith> | which are just patches from one repo to another |
| 09:23 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., from the forked repo back to upstream |
| 09:23 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: thanks. Do I need to take any admin action right now to accept? |
| 09:23 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: I have no idea how Google manages to have such a supposedly smart-across-the-board engineering team and keep making n00b mistakes like "web browsers never fix bugs" |
| 09:23 | <MikeSmith> | no, I don't think you need to take any action |
| 09:23 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ok |
| 09:25 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I don't really know what they assume. the code is so obfuscated that figuring out what exactly happens is not good use of time |
| 09:26 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I hope that at some point, so Google engineer takes the time to fix stuff |
| 09:26 | <hsivonen> | s/so/some/ |
| 09:27 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: maybe if you believe in your own skillz, you are more likely to try stunts like 6-ways browser-sniffed code paths |
| 09:28 | <hsivonen> | (IIRC, GWT is 6-ways these days) |
| 09:28 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: What are the six? |
| 09:28 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Sniffing on UA strings to work around browser-specific behaviour is a strategy predicated on the assumption that browser-specific behaviour will survive and not be treated as a bug to be fixed |
| 09:29 | <hsivonen> | safari, opera, gecko (older than 1.8), gecko 1.8 (1.8 or later), ie (6 and 7), ie8 |
| 09:29 | <hsivonen> | (don't ask me why they keep around code for Gecko < 1.8) |
| 09:29 | <jgraham> | So, which codepath does IE9 get? |
| 09:29 | <MikeSmith> | sniffing is evil |
| 09:30 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I don't know. Fun QA time for someone. |
| 09:30 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Gecko 1.8 |
| 09:30 | <gsnedders> | (I presume, it's the default, or at least was a year ago) |
| 09:30 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: For real? |
| 09:30 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: http://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/source/browse/trunk/user/src/com/google/gwt/user/UserAgent.gwt.xml |
| 09:31 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Do you want me to remind you about Opera and Google Wave? |
| 09:31 | <hsivonen> | looks like IE9 is going to get ie8 if the compat mode button hasn't been pressed or the site isn't on IE's blacklist |
| 09:32 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, http://googlenewsblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/credit-where-credit-is-due.html |
| 09:32 | <hsivonen> | fwiw, this stuff is why I haven't updated livedom.validator.nu in months |
| 09:32 | jgraham | is somewhat concered that javascript-as-bytecode and proprietry-protocols-over-websockets are the future of the web |
| 09:32 | <MikeSmith> | <meta name="syndication-source" content="http://www.publisherX.com/wire_story_1.html">; |
| 09:32 | <MikeSmith> | <meta name="original-source" content="http://www.example.com/burglary_at_watergate.html">; |
| 09:32 | <jgraham> | Which will make being a browser QA "fun" |
| 09:33 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: bah, I never found obfuscated JS that bad. |
| 09:33 | <gsnedders> | That was you who found it bad :P |
| 09:33 | <hsivonen> | does anyone have up-to-date charset sniffing tests for text/html |
| 09:33 | <hsivonen> | ? |
| 09:33 | <gsnedders> | (And then threw the bugs at me.) |
| 09:34 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Huh? |
| 09:34 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I never found JS-as-bytecode too bad as a browser QA. You were the one who did that… and gave me the bugs. :P |
| 09:35 | <hsivonen> | whoa! GWT has dropped "gecko" since I last took a good look at the file I linked to above |
| 09:35 | <hsivonen> | so it's only 5-ways sniffing these days |
| 09:37 | <hsivonen> | looks like I need to write some encoding sniffing tests :-( |
| 09:38 | <annevk2> | Hixie wrote a lot |
| 09:38 | <annevk2> | they're not sufficient? |
| 09:38 | <annevk2> | (and he wrote them from a script, so maybe you can reuse that) |
| 09:38 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: then I need to locate them |
| 09:38 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: also, the spec was buggy... |
| 09:38 | annevk | looks |
| 09:38 | <hsivonen> | still is |
| 09:39 | <annevk> | http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/ |
| 09:39 | <hsivonen> | thanks |
| 09:40 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I sent you mail about a patch that I can't remember getting any review feedback for yet |
| 09:40 | <MikeSmith> | for http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=749 |
| 09:41 | <MikeSmith> | patch is at http://bugzilla.validator.nu/attachment.cgi?id=181 |
| 09:41 | hsivonen | looks |
| 09:41 | <hsivonen> | and it looks like my patch fails http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/012.html |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | this patch is so that instead of doing this: |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | Bad value for attribute href on element a: DOUBLE_WHITESPACE in PATH. |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | ...we instead do: |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | Bad value for attribute href on element a: The IRI path component contains illegal whitespace. |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | or actually, more like: |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | Error: Bad value http://example.com/?foo bar for attribute href on element a: Whitespace in query component. Use %20 in place of spaces. |
| 09:43 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: it seems a bit odd to initialize vc to null instead of initializing it to ZZZ_DUMMY_DEFAULT |
| 09:43 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 09:43 | <MikeSmith> | I'm probably not going to be able to remember why I did it that way |
| 09:44 | <MikeSmith> | so I'll just go ahead and change it |
| 09:45 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: other than that, look great. thanks |
| 09:45 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 09:45 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 09:47 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: another thing I've been wanting to ask you about is this part of the spec: |
| 09:47 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/webappapis.html#event-handler-content-attributes |
| 09:47 | <MikeSmith> | "Event handler content attributes, when specified, must contain valid JavaScript code matching the FunctionBody production. [ECMA262]" |
| 09:48 | <MikeSmith> | I think it might be possible to use Closure Compiler programatically to run a check to see if values are valid JavaScript code |
| 09:49 | <MikeSmith> | though not yet more specifically to check if they match the FunctionBody production |
| 09:49 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: Rhino is already included, so it makes more sense not to add another JS parser :-) |
| 09:49 | <MikeSmith> | OK, does Rhino have an API for reporting errors? |
| 09:50 | <hsivonen> | I has something. I haven't looked at the API since 2006, so I don't remember what exactly it has |
| 09:50 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 09:50 | <hsivonen> | If Closure is nicer and has an appropriate license, switching to Closure would work, too |
| 09:50 | <gsnedders> | For the parser? I don't think it has anything fine-grained enough to do that… |
| 09:50 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I think Closure actually has a dependency on Rhino |
| 09:51 | <MikeSmith> | I think it may actually be wrapped around Rhino |
| 09:51 | <hsivonen> | ok. in that case, I think it would make sense to first try to use Rhino directly |
| 09:53 | MikeSmith | reads Rhino docs to try to figure out what the entry point for using it is |
| 09:55 | <gsnedders> | MikeSmith: Note that CVS has a new API for this stuff which most stuff uses nowadays |
| 09:55 | <MikeSmith> | gsnedders: CVS of Rhino? |
| 09:56 | <gsnedders> | MikeSmith: Yeah |
| 09:56 | <MikeSmith> | wow, cool |
| 09:56 | <MikeSmith> | you got a URL handy? |
| 09:56 | <gsnedders> | No. |
| 09:56 | MikeSmith | finds http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/js/rhino/ |
| 09:58 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: the current entry lives in whattf/syntax/relaxng/datatype/java/src/org/whattf/datatype/IriRef.java |
| 09:58 | <hsivonen> | looks like the API used there is deprecated, though |
| 10:04 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK, thanks |
| 10:05 | <MikeSmith> | if I manage to get the even-handler attribute checking added, I can maybe also switch that to using the current API as well |
| 10:07 | <MikeSmith> | I guess it's now http://www.mozilla.org/rhino/apidocs/org/mozilla/javascript/ContextFactory.html#enterContext() |
| 10:47 | <thiessenp> | I'm newbing Canvas but oi, I'm having trouble because I keep trying to use it like a DOM. Would anyone know any papers/tutorials on thinking in Canvas (so to speak :)? |
| 10:49 | <annevk> | you could use SVG |
| 10:50 | <jgraham> | Or read something like http://billmill.org/static/canvastutorial/ maybe |
| 10:54 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODgzMA |
| 10:54 | <MikeSmith> | "A new feature though for GTK+3 is being worked on and its quite interesting: an HTML back-end that allows GTK applications to run natively within a HTML5 web-browser off a web server. " |
| 10:55 | <thiessenp> | annevk: don't temp me :) (just trying to get familiar with all the bits of HTML5 and canvas is the last one looming) |
| 10:55 | <thiessenp> | jgraham: thanks will read |
| 10:55 | <annevk> | SVG is part of HTML5 these days |
| 10:55 | <MikeSmith> | http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2010/11/23/gtk3-vs-html5/ |
| 10:55 | <thiessenp> | annevk: oh, hmm what to do now :) (thanks) |
| 10:56 | <thiessenp> | back to Starcraft2 I guess ... :) |
| 10:56 | <annevk> | food |
| 10:59 | <MikeSmith> | http://mkt.appmobi.com/ |
| 11:00 | <MikeSmith> | "an online PhoneGap Hosting Environment" |
| 11:34 | <hsivonen> | so the latest Debian stable has iceweasel 3.0.x |
| 11:34 | <hsivonen> | and Firefox 3.0.x no longer gets security updates from the Mozilla Corporation |
| 11:34 | <hsivonen> | does Debian actually backport all security patches to 3.0.x? |
| 11:35 | <hsivonen> | and what does Red Hat do, considering that they have a 10-year support cycle on the server at least? |
| 11:43 | <hsivonen> | looks like Red Hat ships new Firefox releases to old OS releases |
| 11:44 | <MikeSmith> | http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/i/iceweasel/iceweasel_3.0.6-3/changelog |
| 11:44 | <MikeSmith> | http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/i/iceweasel/iceweasel_3.5.15-1/changelog |
| 11:48 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: http://packages.debian.org/lenny/iceweasel shows 3.0.6-3 as the latest in stable |
| 11:48 | <hsivonen> | and that's what I got when I installed stable |
| 11:49 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 11:49 | <MikeSmith> | it looks like it has not been getting any security updates for a while |
| 11:49 | <MikeSmith> | more than a year |
| 11:49 | <Rik`> | http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=iceweasel |
| 11:50 | <hsivonen> | Rik`: Is a user supposed to know that it's necessary to use backports to get security updates? |
| 11:50 | hsivonen | also observes that Camino uses a rather old Gecko branch |
| 11:51 | <hsivonen> | interesting that 3.6 is still in experimental and not even in unstable |
| 11:53 | <Rik`> | I'd say a Debian user has to know |
| 11:54 | <MikeSmith> | I'm a Debian user, and I didn't know… |
| 11:54 | <MikeSmith> | but then I've never run stable |
| 11:54 | hsivonen | had though Debian supported everything in main for the lifetime of the Debian release |
| 11:56 | <hsivonen> | to be clear, I think it preferable to move to a new Gecko major release compared to keeping a really old one on extended life support |
| 11:59 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: do you recall what the use case for http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=68 was and if we still want it? |
| 11:59 | MikeSmith_ | takes a look |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: don't remember :'( |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | guess it can just be closed |
| 12:00 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ok. thanks |
| 12:00 | <hsivonen> | I think it has something to do with copying the value of something that failed into the error message |
| 12:01 | hsivonen | wonders if Validator.nu got ISO Schematron support from upstream at some point... |
| 12:02 | <hsivonen> | I *think* oNVDL had it |
| 12:02 | <annevk> | if rel=up is for months, what is the relationship for days? |
| 12:03 | <hsivonen> | but did the validator-nu branch start before that part of oNVDL got merged into jing-trang trunk... |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I am pretty sure that it did |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | so no ISO Schematron support |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | btw, I think catalog resolver support was added to upstream jing some time recently |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | CSS question: negative values for cubic-bezier(), has that been discussed? |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | works in Opera/Gecko and is pretty cool (though negative time is weird of course) |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | but is not allowed per spec |
| 12:07 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: hmm, or I guess it's been there for a while |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: so it turns out that ISO Schematron *still* hasn't landed on jing-trang trunk. I wonder what the delay is about. |
| 12:10 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 12:10 | <MikeSmith> | maybe there was some problem trying to merge it in |
| 12:11 | <MikeSmith> | I wonder what George is actually running in oXygen |
| 12:11 | <hsivonen> | I have zero experience with branch merging with SVN. the whole idea of doing advanced stuff with SVN scares me, but at some point, I should take a good look at the differences between the trunk and the validator-nu branch of jing-trang |
| 12:11 | <annevk> | hmm, more registry failure: http://mail.apps.ietf.org/ietf/charsets/msg01510.html |
| 12:11 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: yeah, please do when you have time |
| 12:14 | <hsivonen> | annevk: are you going to comment on http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11423 ? |
| 12:15 | <annevk> | I was reading that and decided not to care for now |
| 12:15 | <annevk> | I think the solution for encodings is to not have a registry at all and just have a spec that defines everything |
| 12:31 | jgraham | thought git-svn was the solution to doing branch merges in svn :p |
| 12:33 | <thiessenp> | Just to say the Red Bean book is your friend for all things SVN (svnbook.red-bean.com) |
| 12:38 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: that's quite possible |
| 12:38 | hsivonen | wishes jing-trang transitioned to hg on Google Code |
| 12:43 | <hsivonen> | I'm a bit worried that requiring http-equiv="content-type" for content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2" to take effect is going to break sites with typos in the http-equiv="content-type" part |
| 12:43 | hsivonen | starts updating the html5lib encoding tests |
| 12:44 | <zcorpan> | if i uncheck 'allow comments on this post' on an old post in the whatwg blog, do the old comments disappear? |
| 12:44 | <hsivonen> | <script>alert('step 1 of 3 ("<FE>")')</script> |
| 12:44 | <hsivonen> | where <FE> is the byte 0xFE |
| 12:44 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: do we really want such bogus bytes in the encoding tests? |
| 12:44 | <annevk> | zcorpan, they shouldn't |
| 12:44 | <hsivonen> | makes the test file uneditable in gedit |
| 12:45 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: so we should find out which typos we need to support for web compat |
| 12:45 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: I remember nothing about these tests |
| 12:46 | <hsivonen> | the byte decodes to þ in Windows-1252 |
| 12:46 | <hsivonen> | I wonder if it intentionally overlaps a byte from the UTF-8 BOM |
| 12:46 | <hsivonen> | well, I guess I can manage editing this file as Windows-1252 instead of UTF-8 |
| 12:47 | <zcorpan> | annevk: thanks, they didn't |
| 12:47 | <hsivonen> | files that don't decode cleanly as either UTF-8 or Windows-1252 are much more annoying |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | maybe we should disable registering on the blog |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | it seems to mostly generate a lot of crap in the pending category |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | and anyone who wants a legitimate account can request one here |
| 12:49 | <zcorpan> | i'd like automatic disabling of comments after a few weeks |
| 12:49 | <annevk> | there's probably a plugin that does that |
| 12:49 | <annevk> | the spam filtering for comments is not good enough? |
| 12:49 | <zcorpan> | (and trackbacks) |
| 12:50 | <zcorpan> | maybe i can disable getting email for new comments and trackbacks instead, since that's what annoys me |
| 12:52 | <hsivonen> | we should blog more |
| 12:52 | <hsivonen> | Real Soon Now when I make an new release of the parser, I can blog about it |
| 12:53 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: are the encoding tests really meant to test the full stack and not just prescan? |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | yeah, where did markp go? |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | though activity has gone down somewhat on WHATWG-related matters |
| 12:55 | <jgraham> | Well yeah, what would a blog post say? "HTML5: it's pretty much done"? |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | that is, focus is more on implementing / conformance / fixing minor bugs |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | and the new features are very sketchy still |
| 12:55 | <jgraham> | Well I guess I should blog about the testsuite or something |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 12:59 | <hsivonen> | I guess I could blog about exciting stuff like HTML in annotation-xml and two-character named characters when my patch queue lands |
| 13:00 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: I guess that's what they were supposed to test since that's what the code does. It might not be sensible of course |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | annotation-xml, whoo |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | reddit will go crazy |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | (does seem like a good idea though) |
| 13:02 | <erlehmann> | it is always fun to glance at inevitable success as it is planned :D |
| 13:02 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: supposed to test the full stack that is? |
| 13:02 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Yes |
| 13:02 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: it's quite easy to miss severe bugs in the prescan if you test the full stack |
| 13:03 | <hsivonen> | my testing was miserable until I started testing the prescan in isolation |
| 13:03 | <hsivonen> | but ok, I won't change the test that should pass if you test the full stack |
| 13:03 | <hsivonen> | *tests |
| 13:04 | <jgraham> | annevk: If we wanted to make reddit go crazy we would have to link HTML5 to drug legalization or whatever current hangup is |
| 13:04 | <jgraham> | +their |
| 13:05 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: You are probably right |
| 13:06 | <annevk> | TSA |
| 13:06 | <annevk> | also Wikileaks |
| 13:06 | <annevk> | reddit is awesome |
| 13:07 | <hsivonen> | I'm scheduled to board 3 flights in the U.S. next month :-( |
| 13:07 | <jgraham> | I don't get reddit. I mean the s/n is *so* low |
| 13:07 | <jgraham> | in the comments |
| 13:07 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: better or worse than slashdot? |
| 13:07 | <annevk> | they're fricking funny |
| 13:07 | <annevk> | usually |
| 13:08 | <jgraham> | annevk: I think that's the problem. Being cute and funny is valued over being insightful. So there are just endless lame attempts at humor and nothing substantial |
| 13:08 | <annevk> | there's insight too as far as I can tell; it varies |
| 13:09 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Different. /. is usually just full of people being wrong. reddit is usually full of people making 2 word puns and stuff |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | e.g. the topvoted comment here seems insightful: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ed2in/wikileaks_asked_the_us_for_help_redacting/ |
| 13:10 | <jgraham> | annevk: Sure, there is some. There is probably some fabulous content. But there is an awful lot of noise |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | not in my experience |
| 13:10 | <jgraham> | Enough that I can't be bothered with it |
| 13:10 | <hsivonen> | annevk: is "When comparing a string specifying a character encoding with the name or alias of a character encoding to determine if they are equal, user agents must remove any leading or trailing space characters in both names, and then perform the comparison in an ASCII case-insensitive manner." the Web-compatible way to compare? |
| 13:12 | <annevk> | I think Firefox only did ASCII lowercasing |
| 13:12 | <annevk> | IE also strips leading and trailing whitespace |
| 13:12 | <annevk> | Opera plans to match IE |
| 13:13 | <annevk> | (not sure whether the patch landed yet) |
| 13:13 | <hsivonen> | annevk: ok. |
| 13:13 | <hsivonen> | then the Validator.nu Java code is wrong |
| 13:14 | <annevk> | it is definitely a lot better than UTS22 |
| 13:14 | <annevk> | that breaks shit |
| 13:15 | <hsivonen> | is UTS22 where you ASCII-lowercase and throw away everything except a-z and 0-9? |
| 13:15 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 13:15 | <hsivonen> | ok |
| 13:16 | <hsivonen> | some of these tests are so old that the spec has probably changed to UTS22 and back without the tests following |
| 13:16 | <erlehmann> | annevk, jgraham, post it on hacker news if you don't like reddit? |
| 13:17 | <annevk> | hsivonen, could be, Hixie_ generates his tests from a script |
| 13:17 | <annevk> | hsivonen, so they should be easy to fix I guess |
| 13:17 | <erlehmann> | rationalists will rip your parser apart, of course. ;) |
| 13:17 | <jgraham> | erlehmann: Huh? |
| 13:18 | <annevk> | erlehmann, only if you don't use sufficient variables |
| 13:18 | <erlehmann> | jgraham, there: <http://news.ycombinator.com/>; |
| 13:20 | <jgraham> | erlehmann: Yeah, I know Hacker News. It is even quite bearable (mod "humor" to oblivion, narrow focus of articles) despite the crazy startups/self-improvement bent it has. But it was the next line I didn;t understand |
| 13:20 | <jgraham> | "rationalists will rip your parser apart, of course. ;)" |
| 13:21 | <erlehmann> | jgraham, the self-improvement part often has some kind of rationalist ring to it, i.e. articles from eliezer yudkowski. |
| 13:24 | <jgraham> | erlehmann: You could be right, I haven't noticed |
| 13:25 | <erlehmann> | jgraham, careful. it could be a bias on my part, hehe |
| 13:26 | <erlehmann> | quick, reroute auxilliary power to the bayes coils to increase its efficiency in subspace! |
| 13:27 | <jgraham> | You are making combined Star Trek / Bayes theorem jokes? This must be some definition of geekiness |
| 13:56 | <hsivonen> | annevk: looks like Hixie's tests are out of date: http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/018.html |
| 13:58 | <annevk> | I think we should just drop ISO-8859-9 to be hoenst |
| 13:58 | <annevk> | honest* |
| 13:58 | <hsivonen> | drop in what sense? |
| 13:58 | <annevk> | if we need to support Windows-1254 already and it is more compatible... |
| 13:58 | <annevk> | and it is a superset* |
| 13:58 | <hsivonen> | oh. in that sense |
| 13:59 | <hsivonen> | annevk: you wouldn't drop support for the iso-8859-9 label, though, right? |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | right, but it would mean Windows-1254 |
| 13:59 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: about typos in http-equiv="content-type", if you could run your html parser against a set of pages and compare the sniffed encoding compared to an older version of your html parser that doesn't have the http-equiv="content-type" check, and log the URLs where the encoding is different, I could have a look at those pages (some day) |
| 13:59 | <hsivonen> | that's what Hixie's test already expect |
| 14:00 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: good idea. I wonder if Philip` would run that test if I provide parser jars... |
| 14:01 | <hsivonen> | Hooray! Hixie's test cases are hosted on Dreamhost's broken Apache: http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/047.html |
| 14:01 | <hsivonen> | Hixie_: test baseline is broken |
| 14:02 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I see now why there was weird byte in the test suite |
| 14:03 | <hsivonen> | the weird byte came from Hixie and only makes sense as a full-stack test |
| 14:03 | <annevk> | re my CSS question, apparently the spec for transitions simply hasn't been updated yet |
| 14:06 | <hsivonen> | http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/057.html makes the spec look very suspicious on the document.write front |
| 14:11 | <karlcow> | http://googlenewsblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/credit-where-credit-is-due.html |
| 14:11 | <hsivonen> | assuming that http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10803#c2 is correct, given #c4 it would be nice is someone from Opera could say why Opera changed |
| 14:13 | <annevk> | <script type=whatever src=...> is still fetched? |
| 14:13 | <annevk> | what is the point of that? |
| 14:14 | <hsivonen> | annevk: not fetched in Opera, Firefox, WebKit trunk or the spec. Fetched in IE and old WebKit. |
| 14:15 | <hsivonen> | annevk: did you tune out the script-inserted script execution order discussion? |
| 14:17 | <annevk> | I think I reversed the pass condition of an internal bug; my bad |
| 14:17 | <annevk> | I am tuned out of that whole discussion, yes |
| 14:18 | <annevk> | thank you |
| 14:19 | <hsivonen> | annevk: anyway, the point is that in IE and old WebKit you get an onload event when the resource has loaded, so you can use it for preloading stuff to cache and you know when the content has been fetched |
| 14:22 | <hsivonen> | is this test correct per current spec http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/063.html |
| 14:22 | <hsivonen> | I suppose it is |
| 14:22 | <hsivonen> | I wonder what's happening there... |
| 14:22 | <hsivonen> | with my patches applied that is... |
| 14:25 | <hsivonen> | today gdb keeps hanging. not cool |
| 14:27 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: I could probably manage to do that |
| 14:28 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: cool. I make jars when I have debugged my patch |
| 14:28 | <hsivonen> | sadly, it seems that there's a lot to debug |
| 14:29 | <hsivonen> | which is rather counter-intuitive |
| 14:31 | <hsivonen> | it feels like stuff in Ubuntu just keeps regressing and regressing |
| 14:31 | <hsivonen> | gdb hasn't been systematically hanging before |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | I need to go to a virtual console to kill it |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | since it locks X event delivery until killed |
| 14:33 | <hsivonen> | I guess I will have to use printfs to debug why http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/063.html fails :-( |
| 14:34 | <hsivonen> | well, http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/067.html is interesting, too |
| 14:35 | <zcorpan> | i don't follow why http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/encoding/063.html expects windows-1252 |
| 14:36 | <zcorpan> | the prescan doesn't skip <script> blocks, does it? |
| 14:36 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: it doesn't |
| 14:37 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: but the prescan sets confidence to tentative and the tree builder should later change the encoding |
| 14:37 | <zcorpan> | oh |
| 14:37 | <zcorpan> | right |
| 14:41 | <zcorpan> | step 2 of "A sequence of bytes starting with a 0x3C byte (ASCII <), optionally a 0x2F byte (ASCII /), and finally a byte in the range 0x41-0x5A or 0x61-0x7A (an ASCII letter)" seems bogus if the byte found in step 1 was 0x3E (ASCII >) |
| 14:45 | <zcorpan> | <html>a="<meta charset=utf-8>" |
| 14:45 | <zcorpan> | the prescan misses the meta there afaict |
| 14:45 | <hsivonen> | oh joy. the parser does the right thing with 063.html but the rest of the browser rejects the reload request |
| 14:47 | <erlehmann> | is there something forbidding that a body element contains only a canvas? |
| 14:47 | <hsivonen> | not anymore, IIRC |
| 14:48 | <zcorpan> | erlehmann: depends on what the purpose of the <canvas> is |
| 14:49 | <zcorpan> | erlehmann: well, the spec wants children of the <canvas> itself (for fallback/accessibility) |
| 14:49 | <annevk> | there was no xml:id bug before today? |
| 14:49 | <annevk> | weird |
| 14:50 | <erlehmann> | zcorpan, it seems that with gecko, <canvas id=universe></canvas> will not be returned by getElementById() if it is the sole element in the body. if i add another element or fallback content is added, it will be returned. |
| 14:50 | <erlehmann> | webkit returns without fallback content, but you are right; i should add it. |
| 14:50 | <hsivonen> | erlehmann: which version of Gecko or Firefox? |
| 14:51 | <erlehmann> | hsivonen, Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de; rv:1.9.1.13) Gecko/20100916 Iceweasel/3.5.13 (like Firefox/3.5.13) |
| 14:51 | <erlehmann> | in before fixed in 4.0 |
| 14:51 | <zcorpan> | erlehmann: do you check getElementById in a <script> that is inside or after the <canvas>? |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | erlehmann, that's a parsing issue |
| 14:52 | <erlehmann> | after. |
| 14:52 | <zcorpan> | firefox 3.5 moves the <script> to head |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | erlehmann, if scripts occur before "significant content" they are moved to <head> |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | in Firefox 3.5 |
| 14:53 | <erlehmann> | interesting, thanks. |
| 14:57 | <zcorpan> | Hixie_: fwiw, the dialog that appears after submitting a bug in the spec always immidiately disappears again for me (in opera), i presume it's because it disappears when scrolling (even if i don't actually scroll) |
| 16:54 | <annevk> | o_O |
| 16:54 | <TabAtkins> | @_@ |
| 16:54 | <annevk> | http://www.saxonica.com/ -- I wonder if he even considered how Google is going to navigate that |
| 16:55 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, hm. I dunno if we run xsl or not. |
| 16:56 | <TabAtkins> | Augh, and he's got talismans on his <script>. |
| 16:56 | <annevk> | http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 -- was a bad idea in 2003 -- still is today |
| 16:56 | <TabAtkins> | s/xsl/xslt/ |
| 16:57 | <annevk> | haha #sneeuw is a trending topic on twitter |
| 16:58 | <jgraham> | Searching from the URLs on that page doesn't return the page, so I guess Google doesn't run XSLT |
| 16:58 | <jgraham> | Nor bing |
| 16:58 | <annevk> | nor should they really |
| 16:58 | <TabAtkins> | Argh, why does Hixie's domain think look like a link and feel like a link, but isn't actually a link? |
| 16:59 | <TabAtkins> | Setting "cursor:pointer" on something that isn't a link or otherwise meaningfully interactive is just *cruel*. |
| 16:59 | <jgraham> | TabAtkins: Surely you aren't suggesting a link between semantics and presentation |
| 16:59 | <annevk> | I think it used to do something |
| 16:59 | <jgraham> | It is there to test your faith |
| 16:59 | <annevk> | give a popover of some sorts |
| 17:00 | <jgraham> | A true believer in the Glorious Semantic Revolution would never question such things |
| 17:00 | <annevk> | ah yeah |
| 17:00 | <annevk> | Hixie uses h1 { -moz-binding: url(../bindings/sites.xml#menu); -khtml-binding: url(../bindi... which now fails everywhere |
| 17:00 | <TabAtkins> | I most certainly am. Presentation can convey semantics as well (it's just not universal design, and thus not a good idea in general). |
| 17:01 | <jgraham> | TabAtkins: The Inquisition will be talking to you., Although you will need to wait as there is a backlog |
| 17:02 | <TabAtkins> | Excellent. |
| 17:03 | <JonathanNeal> | hello |
| 17:03 | <TabAtkins> | Yo, J-nizzle. |
| 17:22 | <annevk> | whoa |
| 17:23 | <annevk> | dealing with XMLHttpRequest discussion |
| 17:23 | <annevk> | -100 emails |
| 17:26 | <JonathanNeal> | TabAtkins, thank you for that. |
| 19:27 | <TabAtkins> | ...dammit, my math is rusty. I just worked out that a circle of radius 1 centered at (1,1) actually has a radius of i*sqrt(3). |
| 19:27 | <TabAtkins> | I... don't understand what I did wrong here. |
| 19:27 | <TabAtkins> | (Other than get the wrong answer, obviously.) |
| 19:27 | <Hixie> | i'm hoping that i'm missing some context because otherwise that's a very odd circle :-) |
| 19:28 | <TabAtkins> | I'm trying to determine the major/minor axes of an ellipse that circumscribes a box with a particular axis ratio. I'm testing out my math with a simple example first, and it's, um, wrong. |
| 19:28 | <Workshiva> | Have you been hanging out with Cthulhu? |
| 19:29 | <TabAtkins> | ...wait, I worked out all this math earlier. Let me go dig up that code... |
| 19:30 | <TabAtkins> | (And I know it was correct at the time, because it generated correct pictures.) |
| 19:30 | <Steve^> | I think it's because you're restricting yourself to a single mathematic, you try using a few of them |
| 19:35 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, that's right. The size difference between an ellipse that is circumscribed by a rectangle and one which circumscribes the same rectangle with the same ratio is just sqrt(2). |
| 19:37 | <Workshiva> | http://homepage.eircom.net/~miscellaneous/images/animath.jpg |
| 19:41 | <paulschreiber> | i just found this transcript: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100321 |
| 19:41 | <paulschreiber> | . http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100321#l-656 [16:48] <MikeSmith> Error: Element script is missing required attribute src. |
| 19:41 | <paulschreiber> | . http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100321#l-657 [16:48] <MikeSmith> I really need to get that fix committed |
| 19:41 | <paulschreiber> | . http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100321#l-658 [16:49] <Philip`> That's still a far less helpful error than saying it's required because of the charset |
| 19:41 | <paulschreiber> | . http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100321#l-660 [16:49] <Philip`> People will think they have to add a src, they won't think they have to remove the charset |
| 19:41 | <paulschreiber> | that was the same error i hit with the validator |
| 19:42 | <paulschreiber> | what's the best way to get the error message fixed to help folks like myself? |
| 19:47 | <Schalk> | For the HTMLDocument implementation in Chrome it returns a HTMLBodyElement instead of the HTMLElement defined here: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dom.html#dom |
| 19:48 | <Schalk> | As such one does not seem to have access to the same attributes |
| 19:49 | <Schalk> | I cannot seem to find the documentation regarding the HTMLBodyElement |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | not sure what you mean |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | it returns it for what? |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | do you have a snippet of JS demonstrating the problem? |
| 19:51 | <paulschreiber> | @hixie are you talking to me? |
| 19:51 | <Hixie> | no, Schalk |
| 19:52 | <Schalk> | If I run : document.body I get body: [object HTMLBodyElement] |
| 19:52 | <Hixie> | paulschreiber: for your question, you want MikeSmith or hsivonen |
| 19:52 | <Schalk> | seems that is should return HTMLElement |
| 19:52 | <Hixie> | Schalk: HTMLBodyElement is an HTMLElement |
| 19:52 | <Schalk> | attribute HTMLElement body; |
| 19:53 | <Hixie> | document.body instanceof HTMLElement -> true |
| 19:53 | <Hixie> | document.body instanceof HTMLBodyElement -> true |
| 19:53 | <Schalk> | ok |
| 19:53 | <Hixie> | it's also an Element and a Node |
| 19:54 | <Schalk> | Ok, so all of these should be available from the Object : http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/elements.html#htmlelement |
| 19:54 | <Workshiva> | Guess we have dom core to thank for this... |
| 19:55 | <Hixie> | Schalk: yeah, document.body.getElementsByClassName for instance is a method |
| 19:55 | <Schalk> | sure |
| 19:55 | <Hixie> | Workshiva: i don't see anything wrong with inheritance here, it makes a lot of sense |
| 19:55 | <Schalk> | I am writing some JS to see the values returned by all these |
| 19:55 | <Workshiva> | I'm wondering when would document.body not be HTMLBodyElement? |
| 19:56 | <Hixie> | document.body is defined as returning just an HTMLElement and not an HTMLBodyElement btw is because in some cases it returns an HTMLFramesetElement |
| 19:56 | <Hixie> | for historical reasons |
| 19:56 | <Workshiva> | aha |
| 19:56 | <Schalk> | ah, perfect |
| 19:56 | <Schalk> | thanks Ian |
| 19:57 | <Hixie> | btw, Schalk, you might find http://whatwg.org/html prettier than the w3.org copy |
| 19:57 | <Hixie> | they're essentially the same other than the styling |
| 19:57 | <Schalk> | cool, let me jump into that |
| 19:57 | <Hixie> | if you like having lots of web specs in one place, http://whatwg.org/C is similar but subsumes other specs like web workers and web storage into the same document |
| 19:57 | <Schalk> | been there before ;D |
| 19:58 | <Schalk> | I am currently reading through the entire spec, I REALLY want to understand what I am working with |
| 19:59 | <Hixie> | awesome :_) |
| 19:59 | <Schalk> | thanks for all your hard work |
| 21:05 | <Hixie> | heycam: the extends thing lgtm |
| 21:05 | <Hixie> | let me know when it's specced and i'll update my specs |
| 21:15 | <heycam> | Hixie, cool ok |
| 21:18 | <MikeSmith> | heycam: btw, I've not been able to figure out yet what the cause of the cvs keywords problem is |
| 21:20 | <MikeSmith> | wow, you can make Google Translate beatbox |
| 21:20 | <MikeSmith> | http://translate.google.com/#de%7Cde%7Cpv%20zk%20pv%20pv%20zk%20pv%20zk%20kz%20zk%20pv%20pv%20pv%20zk%20pv%20zk%20zk%20pzk%20pzk%20pvzkpkzvpvzk%20kkkkkk%20bsch |
| 21:35 | <heycam> | MikeSmith, ok, thanks for looking anyway |
| 21:35 | <heycam> | MikeSmith, (I guess you tried deleting a file and `cvs up`ing it?) |
| 21:44 | <MikeSmith> | heycam: well, that's basically what I did to get the file to begin with |
| 21:44 | <MikeSmith> | I mean, I did not have a workspace with those files already |
| 21:45 | <MikeSmith> | I checked them out from scratch |
| 21:45 | <MikeSmith> | ah wait |
| 21:51 | <MikeSmith> | heycam: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/coords-trans-10-f.svg |
| 21:52 | <MikeSmith> | I realize that the problem was that cvs doesn't think the files have changed |
| 21:52 | <MikeSmith> | so it won't commit them |
| 21:53 | <MikeSmith> | so in order to get the repo copy updated you have to make some other change to the file also |
| 21:53 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., some some whitespace change or add a comment |
| 21:53 | <MikeSmith> | and then commit it |
| 21:54 | <MikeSmith> | but I have to say that, going forward, relying on RCS keywords for this kind may not be the most prudent thing to be doing anyway |
| 21:55 | <MikeSmith> | since modern VCS don't support it, by design |
| 21:56 | <MikeSmith> | http://twitter.com/#!/ryah/status/9362620238798848 "http clients are much harder than http servers" |
| 21:59 | <heycam> | MikeSmith, ah ok great -- so I just need to commit some actual change to each of those files. thanks! |
| 21:59 | <heycam> | MikeSmith, yeah the use of the revision numbers in the test slides isn't great. we won't be using them for future test suites. |
| 21:59 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 22:00 | <MikeSmith> | and yeah, sorry, but I think making some update to each of the files and then re-checking them in is the only way |
| 22:10 | <heycam> | MikeSmith, that's no problem |
| 22:10 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 23:32 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: i just noticed the link to the CP for -127 on the issue-status page is broken (points to a -129 CP if i'm not mistaken) |
| 23:34 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: ok, I'll look into it |
| 23:51 | <TabAtkins> | Hixie: Could you fix your blog's site heading to point back to the homepage? Right now it's just underlined and curser-pointing plain text, which is *really annoying* to interact with. |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | did the xbl break? 'doh |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | d'oh een |
| 23:51 | <TabAtkins> | It's never worked in my memory. |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | it worked in mozilla many years ago |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | i should fix the styling on my blog in general |
| 23:52 | <TabAtkins> | If you're overriding it with xbl, at least make the default rendering an <a>. |
| 23:52 | <TabAtkins> | s/rendering/tree or whatever/ |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | well it was just a page to fool around with, not ever a serious page |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | i'll add "redesign site" to my todo list |
| 23:52 | <TabAtkins> | Still, it trips me up *every time* I visit. ^_^ |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | i haven't blogged in forever, you can just not visit :-) |
| 23:53 | <TabAtkins> | I don't know that! |
| 23:53 | <TabAtkins> | also: blog more. |
| 23:53 | <TabAtkins> | note to self: blog more too. |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | i fear that if i blogged it'd all just be me ranting |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | e.g. about julian's latest CPs |
| 23:53 | <TabAtkins> | Ranting is interesting. |
| 23:54 | <TabAtkins> | And it gives people like cssquirrel something to do. |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | rofl, i just got to the mail where mark suggested that to make the pingback spec more reliably available, i should move it from hixie.ch to whatwg.org |
| 23:55 | <TabAtkins> | Hosted on the same server, right? |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | it's the same web server, same dns servers, and same registrant. |
