| 00:05 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: checked in |
| 00:08 | <TabAtkins> | What section is it in? |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | search for cssElementMap |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#dom-document-csselementmap |
| 00:09 | <TabAtkins> | Sigh. To do that I have to load the single-page version. |
| 00:09 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, that works. |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | (it's in the DOM tree accessors section, for lack of a better place to put it) |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | the single-page version works fine with chrome, fwiw |
| 00:10 | <TabAtkins> | You messed up a <dfn> tag in the first sentence. |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | oops |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | will fix |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | thanks |
| 00:12 | <TabAtkins> | Looks good to me, Hixie. Thanks. |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | np |
| 00:12 | <TabAtkins> | Hm. The "specified" seems redundant. Wanna drop that? |
| 00:13 | <Hixie> | sure |
| 00:14 | <TabAtkins> | Oh, wait, one thing. |
| 00:15 | <Hixie> | yes? |
| 00:15 | <TabAtkins> | Only img, canvas, and video should be assignable to the map while out-of-document. |
| 00:15 | <Hixie> | can't enforce that since you can add it to the map and then remove an element |
| 00:15 | <TabAtkins> | Any other element shouldn't be assignable while out-of-document, and should remove itself from the map if removed from teh doc. |
| 00:16 | <Hixie> | that would be rather confusing -- better to just make it that a reference to an unusable element gets ignored on the CSS side, imho |
| 00:16 | <Hixie> | or i can make those elements not define the mapping for you |
| 00:16 | <Hixie> | but still have them be in the API's map |
| 00:17 | <Hixie> | it'd be confusing because you don't want it to matter whether you create, then add to the list, then append to the doc, or create, then append, then add to hte list |
| 00:17 | <Hixie> | and you don't want things to break when all you're doing is moving an element around the dom (which involves being removed from the doc briefly) |
| 00:17 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, makes sense. So yeah, make it so they don't map to the CSS identifier while not in the document. |
| 00:17 | <Hixie> | k |
| 00:18 | <Hixie> | img, video, canvas is a rather arbitrary list |
| 00:18 | <Hixie> | what about <input type=image>, <object>, <embed>...? |
| 00:19 | <TabAtkins> | <input type=image>, sure. object, embed, iframe I'm not sure of right now - I've already asked about them on the list. |
| 00:19 | <TabAtkins> | I think the answer should be "yes", though there are wrinkles, like iframes not loading until they're added to the document. |
| 00:20 | <Hixie> | do i have to have the HTML side also handle the case of the <img> element's bitmap not being available yet? |
| 00:20 | <TabAtkins> | It should just be any element whos rendering is unaffected by surrounding elements by default. |
| 00:20 | <Hixie> | or of a <canvas> with height=0? |
| 00:20 | <Hixie> | it really seems best to have this be all handled in the CSS side |
| 00:20 | <TabAtkins> | No, CSS should handle that with "with an appearance exactly equivalent to that of the referenced element" |
| 00:20 | <Hixie> | well then if you can handle <img alt="x" src="bogus"> out of doc why can't you handle <span>x</span>? |
| 00:21 | <Hixie> | battery's dying, gotta go. will check in once i'm near power again. |
| 00:21 | <TabAtkins> | The problem with doing this on the CSS side is that CSS has no notion of elements outside the document. So I'm not sure how to talk about them. |
| 00:33 | <karlcow> | http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/layout_tables/history.htm |
| 01:21 | <karlcow> | about implementing current practices - http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/archives/HTML-WG/html-wg-94q3.messages/0042.html |
| 01:35 | <karlcow> | Where ... might be any number of idioms, including nothing at all, i.e. |
| 01:35 | <karlcow> | <!DOCTYPE HTML> |
| 01:35 | <karlcow> | I would take this declaration to mean "gimme the current version of the |
| 01:35 | <karlcow> | HTML DTD." |
| 01:35 | <karlcow> | in http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/archives/HTML-WG/html-wg-94q3.messages/0056.html |
| 01:36 | <TabAtkins> | Heh, that's exactly what it means now, except without the whole nasty DTD business. ^_^ |
| 01:46 | <karlcow> | TabAtkins, I spend a bit of time in the archives on a regular basis. And the discussions are *always* the same. |
| 01:56 | <MikeSmith> | we really should just write a separate spec for <!doctype html> |
| 01:57 | <MikeSmith> | and take it to Rec |
| 01:57 | <MikeSmith> | unattached from HTML5 |
| 01:57 | <MikeSmith> | which would enable anybody to use it on any doc they wanted for whatever purpose they wanted |
| 02:00 | <karlcow> | MikeSmith: ahahaha :D |
| 02:00 | <TabAtkins> | Man, this is a fascinating read: http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/NOTE-CSS-potential-19981210 |
| 02:01 | <TabAtkins> | Most of it is stuff we're either just now doing, or plan to do in the very near future. |
| 02:01 | <TabAtkins> | They had the future of CSS mapped out over a decade ago. ^_^ |
| 02:01 | <TabAtkins> | (Seriously, there's very little that we're doing now or plan to do soon that isn't already on the list.) |
| 02:02 | <MikeSmith_> | karlcow: really -- because as TabAtkins said, it really has nothing to do with any DTD at all |
| 02:03 | <MikeSmith_> | it's not asking for a gimme of anything |
| 02:03 | <MikeSmith> | and it's not asserting the document is an HTML5 document |
| 02:04 | <MikeSmith> | if it's asserting anything at all, it's simply that the document is an HTML document, period |
| 02:05 | <MikeSmith> | what the spec should say is that it's only needed to prevent UAs from processing the document in quirks mode |
| 02:06 | <TabAtkins> | Remember - all sequences of bytes are HTML documents. They may not be valid, but they can be processed as HTML. |
| 02:17 | <karlcow> | [21:02] <MikeSmith> which would enable anybody to use it on any doc they wanted for whatever purpose they wanted |
| 02:17 | <karlcow> | I thought you were proposing doctype html for word, wordperfect, multimate and wordstar documents |
| 02:18 | <MikeSmith> | ah, no |
| 02:20 | <karlcow> | hmm I haven't found a page which explains the history mess of html mailing lists such as w3c and ietf one running in parallel. |
| 02:37 | <karlcow> | MikeSmith: :)))) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2010JulSep/0001.html |
| 02:46 | <karlcow> | ok that is a start :) not perfect but still gives a way to people to find their ways http://www.w3.org/html/wiki/HTML_Mailing_Lists |
| 02:54 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: i don't understand what "with an appearance exactly equivalent to that of the referenced element" means. Consider an inline element, what is its appearance? |
| 02:55 | <Hixie> | give line breaking, e.g. |
| 02:55 | <Hixie> | or consider an element with a top-margin collapsed with a larger following margin -- what is its appearance? specifically, what is its origin? |
| 02:55 | <Hixie> | or consider an element with display:runin |
| 02:58 | <roc> | In Gecko, we draw the border-box of the first CSS box |
| 02:59 | <roc> | er wrong |
| 02:59 | <oojacoboo> | is it really recommended not to use quote with html attributes? |
| 02:59 | <oojacoboo> | quotes* |
| 03:00 | <roc> | what we do is |
| 03:00 | <roc> | we take all the CSS boxes for the element |
| 03:00 | <roc> | we compute the bounding box that contains all those CSS boxes |
| 03:00 | <boogyman> | oojacoboo: depends on the context, single word attribute values its acceptable, multi-word values must be encapsulated by quotes |
| 03:00 | <boogyman> | it's* |
| 03:01 | <roc> | er, the bounding box is the union of all the border-boxes of the CSS boxes |
| 03:01 | <oojacoboo> | I would think that just for semantics and good use, using them all the time, would be the most appropriate |
| 03:01 | <roc> | that defines the image bounds |
| 03:01 | <boogyman> | however in the spirit of consistent coding technique, I always use quotes and lower-case |
| 03:01 | <oojacoboo> | html5 spec is littered with attributes without quotes |
| 03:01 | <roc> | then we render all the CSS boxes into it in flow order |
| 03:02 | <othermaciej> | use of quotes or not is a matter of taste |
| 03:02 | <othermaciej> | html5 examples strive to use a variety of styles, to avoid expressing an opinion on what is best |
| 03:02 | <othermaciej> | particular quoting conventions are not more or less semantic |
| 03:03 | <oojacoboo> | othermaciej: then what is it? |
| 03:03 | <othermaciej> | what is what? |
| 03:03 | <oojacoboo> | the use or not use of quotes |
| 03:03 | <othermaciej> | it is a matter of taste |
| 03:03 | <othermaciej> | like I said |
| 03:03 | <oojacoboo> | it's not a matter of taste or semantics, what is it? |
| 03:03 | <oojacoboo> | you said it's NOT |
| 03:03 | <othermaciej> | no, I said: |
| 03:03 | <othermaciej> | "use of quotes or not is a matter of taste" |
| 03:04 | <oojacoboo> | :P |
| 03:04 | <boogyman> | oojacoboo: <element class=one> and <element class="one"> are both acceptable, however <element class=one two> and <element class="one two"> have separate meanings |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | you sometimes need quotes for certain values |
| 03:04 | <oojacoboo> | othermaciej: don't write confusing shit like that at this hour ;) |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | it's just like the Unix shell |
| 03:04 | <oojacoboo> | boogyman: right |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | sometimes you need quotes around command parameters |
| 03:04 | <oojacoboo> | yea |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | much of the time you don't |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | you can still use them when you don't need them |
| 03:04 | <oojacoboo> | I'll stick with my anal quoting routine :) |
| 03:05 | <othermaciej> | most people choose not to |
| 03:05 | <othermaciej> | in HTML, some people feel you should quote even when you don't need to |
| 03:05 | <oojacoboo> | yea, like me |
| 03:05 | <othermaciej> | others feel you should quote only when needed |
| 03:05 | <othermaciej> | HTML5 lets you do it either way |
| 03:05 | <oojacoboo> | anyone here familiar with the <figcaption> element? |
| 03:06 | <oojacoboo> | I was trying to get some specifics on it's intent for block level use |
| 03:07 | <oojacoboo> | the spec is extremely vague on this element, so far, I've just gone ahead and done it the way I think it should be, but if someone has some intimate knowledge into this element, I'd love to ehar it |
| 03:07 | <oojacoboo> | hear* |
| 03:07 | <oojacoboo> | http://dev.rentpost.com/managers (you'll see where I have used it in the <figure> at near the bottom on this page |
| 03:07 | <oojacoboo> | +) |
| 03:07 | <Hixie> | <figcaption> is allowed in one place only, and that's as a child of <figure> |
| 03:08 | <oojacoboo> | ummm... duh ;) |
| 03:18 | <oojacoboo> | curious on all the new input type values. How are the current UAs interpreting these? |
| 03:18 | <oojacoboo> | are there any backward compatibility techniques |
| 03:31 | <Hixie> | oojacoboo: they're doing some stuff on them, not great so far |
| 03:32 | <Hixie> | oojacoboo: the back compat story is that older browsers treat them type type=text |
| 03:32 | <oojacoboo> | mmm, ok |
| 03:32 | <oojacoboo> | I was considering trying to code up some forms with html5, but I think that's probably going to be a waste at this time |
| 03:33 | <oojacoboo> | maybe type would be ok to use if they fall back to "text" |
| 03:33 | <oojacoboo> | at least for email on mobile you might not get the uppercase default onFocus |
| 03:36 | <oojacoboo> | Hixie: do you have any resources on backward compatibility at least for safe use, even if you have to replicate functionality in certain instances |
| 03:48 | <Hixie> | not off-hand |
| 03:48 | <Hixie> | diveintohtml5.org might have some useful stuff |
| 03:48 | <oojacoboo> | are people using things like modernizr and just using multiple form elements? |
| 03:49 | <oojacoboo> | not really wanting to write the html twice, doubling the markup |
| 03:49 | <boogyman> | oojacoboo: how about you do a couple of simple test cases before making templates for your "production" site |
| 03:50 | <oojacoboo> | boogyman: what do you mean? |
| 03:50 | <oojacoboo> | I don't plan on coding this straight to production, we do have a dev and stage server... |
| 03:51 | <boogyman> | create a simple html example and test in some user-agents |
| 03:51 | <oojacoboo> | I'd prefer not to waste the time coding up a bunch of things that someone already has the answer on |
| 04:19 | <Hixie> | roc: except for <img>, <video>, and <canvas>, right? |
| 04:20 | <Hixie> | roc: my point was just that the css spec would have to define all this, so having the css spec define what happens when the referenced element is an <img> with broken image data, or a <video> that's still spooling, or a <canvas> with height=0, etc, is something that would have to be defined in css anyway |
| 04:20 | <Hixie> | roc: so it's not something the html spec should define |
| 04:20 | <roc> | sure |
| 04:20 | <roc> | we actually treat <video>/<canvas>/<img> differently depending on whether they have CSS boxes or not |
| 04:20 | <Hixie> | makes sense |
| 05:07 | <oojacoboo> | Hixie: you write the lang type for the spec? |
| 05:07 | <oojacoboo> | html lang="en-US-x-hixie" |
| 05:45 | <jamesr_> | Hixie: you there? i'm trying to figure out how to upload something to your live dom viewer |
| 05:46 | <jamesr_> | i want to look at a test page i've created on an ipad |
| 05:46 | <jamesr_> | i tried clicking 'upload' and have no idea what happened |
| 05:47 | <jamesr_> | oh i probably want 'save' |
| 05:55 | <jamesr_> | figured it out! |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | oojacoboo: i write the spec |
| 06:29 | <jacobolus> | oojacoboo: it's sort of a joke I think :) |
| 06:44 | <hsivonen> | http://www.w3.org/News/2010.html#entry-8967 |
| 06:44 | <hsivonen> | I'm very confused by that announcement. When did the election start? |
| 06:45 | <hsivonen> | I thought just a couple of days ago, JeniT was contemplating whether to run for the election |
| 07:59 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: there was a nomination period, it just ended |
| 08:00 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: apparently, the number of nominees was the same as the number of seats up for election, thus making it a bit of a banana republic election |
| 08:00 | <jamesr_> | everyone wore a neutral-colored fleece and a scarf? |
| 08:01 | <othermaciej> | shows how much you know |
| 08:02 | <othermaciej> | banana republic is all about semi-desaturated non-primary tones |
| 08:07 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: I see. It would have been helpful for the announcement to say that it was an election without votes. |
| 08:07 | <hsivonen> | I guess it also means that Jeni Tennison chose not to run. |
| 08:08 | <othermaciej> | I guess so |
| 08:08 | <othermaciej> | there would have been more nominees, but I couldn't convince Dave Singer to nominate people who explicitly said they'd refuse |
| 08:37 | <hsivonen> | good to see some chairing on bugs that attempted to circumvent the WG Decision on ISSUE-30 |
| 08:54 | asmodai | eyes the latest chrome dev build |
| 08:56 | <asmodai> | It's not even loading the html5test.com test anymore :| |
| 08:58 | <hsivonen> | Chrome no longer supports HTML5!11!11!11111!!!1 |
| 09:00 | <asmodai> | hsivonen: yea :) |
| 09:01 | <asmodai> | anyway |
| 09:01 | <asmodai> | so me and my colleagues are wondering wtf WebSQL stopped |
| 09:01 | <asmodai> | I mean, isn't it a good thing if all vendors settled on an implementation? |
| 09:01 | <asmodai> | So what's so much a problem about them all using SQLite? |
| 09:05 | <asmodai> | Mmm, funny, same version of Chrome on Mac works |
| 09:10 | <asmodai> | aha, chrome --disable-accelerated-compositing makes it work on Windows at least |
| 09:12 | <hsivonen> | asmodai: Staying compatible with the version of SQLite that Safari used for the JS-exposed SQL database isn't a goal of the SQLite project |
| 09:12 | <hsivonen> | asmodai: thus, keeping compatibility will potentially involve forking SQLite and being on the hook for security patches independently |
| 09:14 | <asmodai> | hsivonen: ok, I can understand that not being a goal of SQLite, but it shouldn't be an issue if some fork for webbrowsers was available? Would only ease maintenance for all vendors if they cooperated on that. Maybe I just see things too rose-coloured :) |
| 09:14 | <hsivonen> | asmodai: also, it's considered healthy that a feature practically requires all vendors to ship the same code |
| 09:14 | <Ms2ger> | unhealthy? :) |
| 09:14 | <hsivonen> | Ms2ger: oops. s/healthy/UNhealthy/ |
| 09:15 | <hsivonen> | I think gzip might be an area where everyone ships the same code, but it's not clear if everyone *has* to |
| 09:15 | <hsivonen> | for PNG, everyone probably ships the same code, but probably wouldn't have to |
| 09:16 | <hsivonen> | investigating how realistic it would be to ship a JFIF impl. other than the Independent JPEG Group's would be an interesting exercise |
| 09:17 | <asmodai> | s/gzip/zlib/ |
| 09:17 | <asmodai> | At least, I see more acknowledgements for zlib rather than gzip ;) |
| 09:17 | <hsivonen> | but at least the zlib project itself aims to keep compatibility |
| 09:17 | <asmodai> | fair enough |
| 10:30 | jgraham | notes that if you have <div class="wrap1">…<div class=wrap8> all nested inside each other, you are probably doing it wrong |
| 10:40 | Workshiva | endorses the idea of w3c member archives on wikileaks |
| 10:47 | <jgraham> | Seems kinda dull for them. This week on wikileaks: New secret emails reveal that Sir Tim Berners-Lee prefers Fudge Ice Cream to Vanilla" |
| 10:55 | <zcorpan> | that's what they discuss in TAG |
| 11:21 | <asmodai> | jgraham: sort of like: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Wikileaks-Cables-Reveal-That-Canada-Is-Boring-2668 |
| 12:36 | <annevk> | ooh, the TAG thing was not even an election? hahaha |
| 12:38 | <jgraham> | annevk: You should "stand" next time |
| 12:38 | <jgraham> | cat amongst the pigeons |
| 12:38 | <annevk> | Maciej threatened to get me nominated during TPAC |
| 12:38 | <annevk> | I have since been wondering what I have done to upset him |
| 12:43 | <hsivonen> | does anyone happen to remember if removing a script from the DOM before it has been executed resets 'already started' in IE and Opera? |
| 12:45 | <hsivonen> | now that I'm implementing execution prevention for scripts that have changed docs between "run" and "execute", it would kinda make sense to clone the IE/Opera behavior of canceling a script and unblocking the parser if a pending script is removed from the doc |
| 12:48 | <hsivonen> | awesome. the m-c was closed because a test tried to load .swf from zombo.com |
| 12:48 | <jgraham> | tests + external servers === evil |
| 12:52 | <gsnedders> | m-c? |
| 12:52 | <jgraham> | mozilla-central |
| 12:52 | <jgraham> | I assume |
| 12:52 | <annevk> | hsivonen, not using http://html5zombo.com/ ?! |
| 12:58 | <hsivonen> | html5zombo.com is superior to zombo.com except as a plug-in test case |
| 13:14 | <karlcow> | annevk: there is still a chance. The last seat is to be nominated by tim ;) |
| 13:38 | <hsivonen> | hmm. I wonder what MikeSmith's plan regarding build.py updating was |
| 13:45 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I started hacking on build.py |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | I hate resolving URLs across multiple windows |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | before XMLHttpRequest I never even contemplated stuff like self[0].EventSource |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | kind of funny that I suspected the "first script" to be incorrect and the first time I run an actual test it does not appear to match implementations |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | I am disappoint |
| 14:31 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I've migrated build.py over. |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | next step is to detect if the user has MQ enabled and use hg pull --rebase instead of --update if so |
| 14:32 | <hsivonen> | but not today |
| 14:56 | <annevk> | 'When Microsoft says "HTML6," I hear "X-UA-Compatible-We-Fucking-Mean-It-This-Time."' |
| 14:56 | <annevk> | -- @diveintomark |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | hsivonen, btw, we have our own image code |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | hsivonen, re discussion earlier today |
| 17:31 | jgraham | curses DOM3 XPath (again) |
| 19:03 | <annevk> | Used <s> in a blog post |
| 19:03 | <annevk> | had to hack my blog software |
| 19:07 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, s/DOM3 // |
| 19:18 | <annevk> | anyone with ideas on structuring weblog archives? |
| 19:18 | <annevk> | especially for blogs without tags |
| 19:18 | <hober> | annevk: http://diveintomark.org/archives comes to mind |
| 19:18 | <Philip`> | annevk: Add a link to your favourite search engine |
| 19:19 | <Philip`> | Nobody's going to bother reading the archives any other way |
| 19:19 | <annevk> | search engines are |
| 19:19 | <annevk> | and I am too |
| 19:19 | <Ms2ger> | http://ln.hixie.ch/?command=index comes too mind |
| 19:19 | <annevk> | hober, yeah, thinking about that |
| 19:19 | <annevk> | oh, Hixie's one should be a lot easier |
| 19:20 | <annevk> | but it'll be a long... very long |
| 19:21 | <annevk> | there's 2500 entries |
| 19:21 | <annevk> | (this includes links) |
| 19:21 | <annevk> | (called HREF at one point) |
| 19:26 | <zcorpan> | have one page for each year |
| 19:26 | <annevk> | I guess I should start with the yearly and monthly pages indeed |
| 19:27 | <annevk> | yearly already exists, but currently excludes link posts |
| 19:30 | <zcorpan> | oh. maybe http://annevankesteren.nl/archives could list the years instead of the months then? |
| 19:37 | <annevk> | zcorpan, yeah prolly |
| 19:38 | <karlcow> | annevk: what do you mean by structuring archives |
| 19:38 | <karlcow> | access to old entries? I do this http://www.la-grange.net/map |
| 19:39 | <karlcow> | http://www.la-grange.net/2009/ http://www.la-grange.net/2009/01/ |
| 19:39 | <annevk> | yeah, I suspect I will do something like that |
| 19:39 | <annevk> | I like how your archives match the style of the site at the time |
| 19:40 | <annevk> | I can probably not do that |
| 19:41 | <karlcow> | annevk: yes I always kept the old style. There are part of the history of the content. |
| 19:42 | <karlcow> | I have a few broken links to fix here and there. |
| 19:43 | <annevk> | such a rebel |
| 19:43 | <annevk> | content != style karlcow |
| 19:43 | <annevk> | after so many years at the W3C you should know |
| 19:43 | <karlcow> | hehe |
| 19:43 | <karlcow> | but style is part of the memories ;) |
| 19:44 | <annevk> | no, you're right |
| 19:44 | <annevk> | my content is stored in a dumb database, rather than something smart like HTML |
| 19:44 | <karlcow> | hehe |
| 20:14 | <karlcow> | " I see my job as making the Mozilla developer outreach channels the Switzerland of HTML5, explaining and showing how to get all the cool new things to work across browsers, platforms and markets." -- http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/html5_mozilla_and_the_future_of_the_web.php |
| 20:14 | <karlcow> | does it involve secret funds? |
| 20:16 | <annevk> | ok, yearly archives are now better |
| 20:16 | <annevk> | including a special style sheet for 2004 and 2005 |
| 20:16 | <annevk> | (because of HREF) |
| 20:18 | <miketaylr> | seems like a standards body would be a better switzerland |
| 20:24 | <annevk> | oh yes http://annevankesteren.nl/archives |
| 20:26 | <karlcow> | annevk: cool |
| 20:26 | <Ms2ger> | http://annevankesteren.nl/2004/01/multicol-spacer |
| 21:16 | <oojacoboo> | anyone familiar with the pseudo class that targets the red outline/border for required input elements with html5 |
| 21:17 | <oojacoboo> | particularly seems to be an incredible eye sore with gecko/-moz |
| 21:18 | <oojacoboo> | it's way too loud/in-your-face, whomever made the decision that that'd be the best method of indicated a required field either did it b/c they already had the code for :focus or just doesn't know what they are doing |
| 21:18 | <Ms2ger> | -moz-box-shadow: none? |
| 21:19 | <oojacoboo> | is that the style element? |
| 21:19 | <oojacoboo> | what's the pseudo class? |
| 21:19 | <oojacoboo> | :required ? |
| 21:19 | <Ms2ger> | :invalid, I guess |
| 21:19 | <oojacoboo> | I don't mind having this after a submit, but sitting before is insane |
| 21:20 | <oojacoboo> | I actually want it after a submit |
| 21:20 | <oojacoboo> | but not before! |
| 21:20 | <Ms2ger> | volkmar would know, but we might be fixing that |
| 21:20 | <oojacoboo> | something not so loud, PLEASE! |
| 21:21 | <oojacoboo> | it ruins the on page eye flow and funneling |
| 21:23 | <oojacoboo> | Ms2ger: that did the trick though, thanks |
| 22:32 | <oojacoboo> | anyone know what the style element is for the annoying 2px border around <button> on webkit? |
| 22:32 | <oojacoboo> | a border: 0 !important won't even nix it |
| 22:42 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: I don't see a border on => data:text/html,<button style="border:0">NoBorder |
| 22:43 | <JoePeck> | do you have a sample page / picture? |
| 22:43 | <oojacoboo> | it's not a "border" really, I think it's the accessibility border |
| 22:43 | <oojacoboo> | although, it kicks down the element 2px which I do not want it doing |
| 22:44 | <oojacoboo> | inspector says the ua stylesheet is styling border though |
| 22:44 | <oojacoboo> | which can't be overridden |
| 22:44 | <JoePeck> | hmm, "-webkit-box-sizing: border-box;" help at all? Just a thought. I am not familiar with accessibility items |
| 22:44 | <oojacoboo> | tried that, nope |
| 22:44 | <oojacoboo> | that's the default for it anyway |
| 22:44 | <oojacoboo> | one second, I can get an example |
| 22:48 | <oojacoboo> | http://dev.rentpost.com/managers @ JoePeck |
| 22:48 | <oojacoboo> | JoePeck: see the button at the bottom with the contact form, notice how in webkit it's positioned lower |
| 22:50 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: it has a margin of 2px |
| 22:51 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: although I don't know where it comes from |
| 22:51 | <oojacoboo> | it's not a margin, I don't think so |
| 22:51 | <oojacoboo> | almost 100% certain |
| 22:51 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: setting margin:0 made it look fine in my Safari |
| 22:51 | <oojacoboo> | :/ |
| 22:51 | <oojacoboo> | sec |
| 22:51 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: check the "Metrics" section of the inspector |
| 22:51 | <oojacoboo> | yea |
| 22:53 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: I have no idea where that margin came from. Might be worth making a reduction. If its webkit only maybe webkit has a bug |
| 22:53 | <oojacoboo> | it's not in firefox |
| 22:54 | <oojacoboo> | I don't know why the browsers have such a hard time with <button> |
| 22:54 | <oojacoboo> | it's one of the most frustrating elements in all of html |
| 22:54 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: it could be the built-in browser theming. If you're familiar with WebKit code, RenderThemeMac, etc |
| 22:55 | <JoePeck> | oojacoboo: maybe try: -webkit-appearance: none |
| 22:55 | <oojacoboo> | it's likely there for accessibility reasons |
| 22:55 | <oojacoboo> | or so I hope |
| 22:55 | <oojacoboo> | but I'd think outline: would be beng used for that |
| 22:55 | <oojacoboo> | I'll try that |
| 22:55 | <JoePeck> | hmm, the -webkit-appearance made no difference. Well, please file a bug on this |
| 22:56 | <oojacoboo> | no go JoePeck |
| 22:56 | <oojacoboo> | link? |
| 22:56 | <JoePeck> | https://bugs.webkit.org/enter_bug.cgi |
| 22:56 | <JoePeck> | preferably with a reduction |
| 22:57 | <oojacoboo> | yea, figured as much |
| 23:12 | <hober> | annevk: reading the new reply to your aria feedback |
| 23:12 | <hober> | "To reduce some of the confusion caused by our "boolean " value type[...] we have renamed the name of the type to "true/false "." |
| 23:12 | <hober> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2010OctDec/0020.html |
| 23:26 | <annevk> | hober, "and believe your proposal to allow host language remapping of ARIA data types would unnecessarily break implementations" |
| 23:26 | <annevk> | they are so full of shit |
| 23:27 | <annevk> | that was that they were saying |
| 23:27 | <annevk> | I was asking them to drop that "host language" stuff |
| 23:27 | <annevk> | glad we have gone full circle |
| 23:29 | <annevk> | "Response to the concerns raised in your acknowledgement" even says that |
| 23:29 | <annevk> | I guess this is what you get when you talk with committees rather than a single person |
| 23:34 | <annevk> | ooh, Hixie killed his style sheet |
| 23:34 | <annevk> | I was wondering what was going on |
| 23:35 | <annevk> | and his new style sheet follows w3.org conventions with meaningless dates?! |
| 23:35 | <annevk> | Hixie trying to get appointed by Tim? ;p |
| 23:36 | <Hixie> | it's not a meaningless date :-) |
| 23:36 | <Hixie> | it's the name of my stylesheet |
| 23:36 | <Hixie> | old one was "spaced out" |
| 23:36 | <Hixie> | then there was the never-completed "orange" |
| 23:36 | <Hixie> | and now "2010" |
| 23:37 | <Hixie> | it might get renamed once i've any idea what it looks like :-) |
| 23:37 | <Hixie> | also, wow, you noticed fast |
| 23:38 | <annevk> | I happened to be reading the archives |
| 23:38 | <Hixie> | aah |
| 23:38 | <annevk> | http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1033035916&count=1 -- quite amusing |
| 23:39 | <Hixie> | wow, i was right |
| 23:39 | <Hixie> | check out the number of replies |
| 23:40 | <annevk> | heh, never really looked beyond the contents :) |
| 23:58 | <AryehGregor> | Wow, Tantek actually got the name "t" on Twitter? Was he involved in founding it, or did he pay a large sum of money, or what? |
| 23:58 | <gsnedders> | AryehGregor: Early enough. |
| 23:58 | <hober> | he originally had 'tantek' |
| 23:58 | <gsnedders> | (IIRC) |
| 23:58 | <hober> | but switched to 't' |
| 23:59 | <gsnedders> | (My memory could be wrong) |
| 23:59 | <hober> | while several of the one-letter usernames were still available |