| 08:48 | <Peter`> | That's one I'd like to see too, MikeSmith :) |
| 08:49 | <Peter`> | context menus would actually be really useful for Web Inspector too |
| 08:49 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:49 | <MikeSmith> | Peter`: your tweet about the details element reminded me that I've been meaning to open a bug for contextmenu |
| 08:51 | <Peter`> | Things are moving quickly |
| 08:51 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:51 | <Peter`> | I might be able to get support for @hidden in WebKit today, using othermaciej's patch |
| 08:51 | <MikeSmith> | that'd certainly be cool |
| 08:53 | <MikeSmith> | Peter`: it passes the tests now? |
| 08:54 | <Peter`> | Yes, The style attribute at an editing test wasn't closed, causing "overflow: hidden" to be interpreted as two attributes, which screwed up the patch |
| 08:55 | <Peter`> | which was the regression that caused it to be rolled out |
| 08:55 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10692 o_O |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | the inability to understand the issue runs deep it seems |
| 13:12 | <karlcow> | annevk: Manu closed it, it seems. |
| 13:13 | <annevk> | karlcow, yeah, I meant the comment with which he closed it |
| 13:13 | <karlcow> | ah ok :) |
| 13:25 | <MrWax> | concrete, which HTML5 apis are there? I am making a presentation about HTML5 and I think i practically listed them all, but to be sure, is there some clear overview of which we can distinct? |
| 13:26 | <annevk> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/HTML5_Presentations |
| 13:40 | <zcorpan> | i wonder how much time vlad alexander has spent bashing html5 and how it breaks xstandard instead of just implementing it in xstandard |
| 13:55 | <zcorpan> | http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/12/high_performance_web_socket_se.html wonder if he has the code in a public repo |
| 15:02 | <MrWax> | annevk: thanks, but they get into the language itself, the markup/tag/syntax renewals etc |
| 15:02 | <MrWax> | not about the JS APIS that come along with HTML5 |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | not all of them do, and most of the interesting new APIs are no longer part of HTML5 |
| 15:09 | <MrWax> | you mean like geolocation etc? |
| 15:10 | <jgraham> | geolocation was never really part of HTML5 |
| 15:10 | <MrWax> | ok |
| 15:10 | <MrWax> | I'm just trying to find a list of APIs that can be considered belonging to HTML5 (now) |
| 15:10 | <annevk> | just go through the spec index |
| 15:11 | <annevk> | i.e. through http://whatwg.org/html |
| 15:11 | <jgraham> | If you want the loose definition of HTML5 look at http://whatwg.org/C |
| 15:12 | <MrWax> | ok thanks i will read it and use it |
| 15:14 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: that's the "loose" definition? hahahaha |
| 15:16 | <annevk> | if you have an implicit section and you use <article> next, is it nested in the implicit section? |
| 15:16 | <zcorpan> | no (iirc) |
| 15:17 | <annevk> | too bad |
| 15:17 | <zcorpan> | it becomes a subsection of the nearest explicit section |
| 15:17 | <jgraham> | Well no, if you want the "loose" definition, you should add in http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work.en.html http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus#API_Specifications http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-abarth-websocket-handshake-01 and probably the latest version of silverlight too ("it's not flash!") |
| 15:19 | <MrWax> | Will WebSQL as part of localstorage be def not implemented? |
| 15:20 | <jgraham> | Not by anyone who hasn't already implemented it |
| 15:21 | <jgraham> | For suitable definitions pf "def" |
| 15:21 | <MrWax> | i mean in the html5 standard |
| 15:23 | <jgraham> | Oh well, no, unless the previous "def" is less definite than it seems |
| 15:23 | <jgraham> | No point standardising something that won't be standard |
| 15:36 | <annevk> | zcorpan, so you would say that e.g. on http://annevankesteren.nl/2005/12/links I better start using <article>? |
| 15:37 | <annevk> | bloats markup a little :/ |
| 15:47 | <zcorpan> | annevk: what's the question? |
| 15:47 | <annevk> | how I could improve the markup |
| 15:51 | <zcorpan> | annevk: yeah i guess you could throw in an <article> there (and one <article> per comment if you want to do what the spec suggests) |
| 15:51 | <zcorpan> | annevk: and always use pubdate="" |
| 16:00 | <zcorpan> | here's one for all the URL regexpers: valid: http://foo_bar.example.org/ invalid: http://foo_bar.org/ |
| 16:03 | <annevk> | zcorpan, isn't _ always invalid technically? |
| 16:04 | <annevk> | zcorpan, also, that would require taking in account http://publicsuffix.org/ ... |
| 16:04 | <annevk> | zcorpan, at which point regexps will lose |
| 16:04 | annevk | still thinking about whether or not to use <article> and all |
| 16:13 | <zcorpan> | annevk: i end up getting confused when trying to find out whether _ is valid or not |
| 16:13 | <zcorpan> | annevk: the IRI RFC seems to allow it at least |
| 16:15 | <annevk> | you should look at the DNS RFC |
| 16:15 | <annevk> | http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1035 |
| 16:16 | <annevk> | according to that RFC _ should not work |
| 16:17 | <annevk> | however, I remember reading somewhere that it can indeed be used if you violate the RFC as software generally does not care |
| 16:19 | <zcorpan> | that only seems to allow a-zA-Z0-9- |
| 16:19 | <annevk> | hmm, http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4343 claims octets within the labels can be anything in the 8bit range |
| 16:19 | <annevk> | that seems wrong |
| 16:21 | <annevk> | zcorpan, right, IDNs are converted to that format using Punycode |
| 16:27 | <zcorpan> | annevk: oh right |
| 17:28 | <karlcow> | I think in the past I had seen an article of someone testing Link: in HTTP headers across browsers for CSS |
| 17:30 | <karlcow> | hmm test page from Anne http://annevankesteren.nl/test/html-element/style-header.php |
| 17:30 | <karlcow> | http://esw.w3.org/LinkHeader |
| 17:31 | <karlcow> | http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988 |
| 17:31 | <karlcow> | grand Pa of Link: http://www.w3.org/Protocols/9707-link-header.html |
| 17:31 | <karlcow> | http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/01/22/using-http-headers-to-serve-styles/ |
| 17:32 | <karlcow> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102907 |
| 19:05 | <Workshiva> | I have altered the spec. Pray I do not alter it further. |
| 20:45 | <zcorpan> | Workshiva: what spec? |
| 20:51 | <zcorpan> | the example document http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-xhtml-author-guide/html-xhtml-authoring-guide.html#example-document is not well-formed (nor valid as text/html) |
| 20:54 | <Ms2ger> | And doesn't have tbodies |
| 20:55 | <Ms2ger> | Also, links to w3schools |
| 20:55 | Ms2ger | reminds himself not to bother |
| 20:56 | <annevk> | http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/73139/trunk/WebCore/html/ColorInputType.cpp -- right, so all color names that are 7 characters long will still be incorrectly accepted? |
| 20:56 | <annevk> | e.g. fuchsia |
| 20:56 | <Peter-> | No, the first character has to be # |
| 20:56 | <Peter-> | (see line 45) |
| 20:57 | <annevk> | aah |
| 20:57 | <Peter-> | #fuchsi would be possible |
| 20:57 | <annevk> | good point |
| 20:57 | <annevk> | that makes it a little trickier :) |
| 20:57 | <Peter-> | but the Color constructor wouldn't be happy and wouldn't validate :) |
| 21:00 | <zcorpan> | ""Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents" is a normative specification" <http://www.w3.org/mid/E1PPi99-0005ql-I6⊙jwo>; |
| 21:00 | <AryehGregor> | But it will still allow #AAAAAA, although that's not valid for <input type=color>. Unless it correctly lowercases it for the submitted value. |
| 21:16 | <annevk> | Peter-, btw, form elements don't have a special constructor |
| 21:16 | <annevk> | Peter-, I think what is mentioned in that bug is not something exposed to the platform |
| 21:16 | <Dashiva> | zcorpan: No spec, I just felt like saying it |
| 21:16 | <annevk> | Peter-, but an implementation detail |
| 21:17 | <Dashiva> | It seems to be my "I have altered the X" day today |
| 21:17 | <Peter-> | annevk, I'll take a look, thanks |
| 21:17 | <zcorpan> | Dashiva: bummer |
| 21:18 | <Dashiva> | It would be a good line for Hyatt to have used if he ever edited anything :) |
| 21:19 | <heycam> | interesting that loading an example with script in Hixie's Live DOM Viewer with Safari makes it say "Refused to execute a JavaScript script. Source code of script found within request." |
| 21:20 | <heycam> | s/interesting/annoying in this instance/ |
| 21:21 | <Peter-> | annevk, I've removed the sentence |
| 21:21 | <Philip`> | heycam: IE's XSS filter triggers the same problem |
| 21:22 | <heycam> | Philip`, seems like a good idea in general |
| 21:22 | <zcorpan> | breaking live dom viewer is not a good idea in general :) |
| 21:23 | Ms2ger | wishes the IE guys knew that |
| 21:25 | <Philip`> | Hixie could easily fix it by adding some header to disable IE's XSS filter, but I think he said he didn't want to |
| 21:25 | <annevk> | zcorpan, about 5 errors so far, mostly escaping errors |
| 21:26 | <annevk> | pretty bad |
| 21:26 | <annevk> | (re twitter) |
| 21:28 | <zcorpan> | annevk: how many of those do you count for escaping errors? |
| 21:29 | <annevk> | actually, are there other errors? |
| 21:29 | <zcorpan> | yes |
| 21:29 | <annevk> | there's a lot of stuff like & in links, literal &s, literal <p>, literal <p /> |
| 21:32 | <annevk> | empty <p> element usage and various examples only make sense looking at the source code |
| 21:32 | <annevk> | what else is there? |
| 21:32 | <zcorpan> | no <tbody> in the second table |
| 21:33 | <annevk> | and the first does not use <colgroup> |
| 21:33 | <zcorpan> | a link pointing to w3schools |
| 21:33 | <annevk> | ooh, only required if there's a <col> element |
| 21:34 | <zcorpan> | the live page is different from the inline example (doesn't have the escaping problems and uses <code> elements) |
| 21:36 | <zcorpan> | claims identical trees (with the exception of the xmlns attribute on the root element) when processed as HTML and when processed as XML, but it doesn't have that (if we assume the escaping and tbody problems are fixed, whitespace still results in different trees) |
| 21:37 | <zcorpan> | an attribute value contains literal line breaks |
| 21:41 | <zcorpan> | i guess that's about it |
| 21:41 | <zcorpan> | also, i love 6.5.2 Elements that Cannot Contain Special Characters |
| 21:41 | <zcorpan> | apparently <plaintext> is OK in polyglot markup |
| 21:42 | <zcorpan> | (but only if it doesn't contain <>&) |
| 21:43 | <hober> | I like how if you view source on SamplePage.html it's quite different than the source listed at #example-document |
| 21:44 | <zcorpan> | yeah |
| 21:45 | <annevk> | comments on markup welcome: http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/11/fear |
| 21:45 | <annevk> | (chose that page because it is rather short) |
| 21:46 | <annevk> | (not entirely sure still on the rel=up business) |
| 21:47 | <zcorpan> | what changed? |
| 21:48 | <annevk> | since when? |
| 21:48 | <annevk> | :) |
| 21:49 | <zcorpan> | oh, i thought you just changed something on that page and wanted feedback |
| 21:49 | <hober> | no <nav>? |
| 21:50 | <annevk> | well, I did just add usage of rel=up and rel="up up" and such |
| 21:50 | <annevk> | overall I changed various small aspects over the past seven days ago |
| 21:50 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 21:50 | <annevk> | I don't quite get the distinction between rel=index and rel=archives |
| 21:51 | <annevk> | hober, I was not quite sure how that would fit in |
| 21:51 | <zcorpan> | did you change to "Less than a week ago." recently? |
| 21:52 | <annevk> | yes, but that is frontpage only |
| 21:52 | <hober> | s/<ul id="nav">/<nav><ul>/ |
| 21:52 | <annevk> | hober, so adding an element? hmm |
| 21:52 | <zcorpan> | (no pun intended if you changed it less than a week ago :P ) |
| 21:53 | <annevk> | I have been thinking about putting that in the archived pages too, but I was not sure how exactly to fit it in nicely |
| 21:53 | <annevk> | also, so far it only gives non-meaningful phrases up to a little over a year |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | hober, I have been wondering about <nav> <a/> <a/> <a/> </nav> -- reducing the amount of elements |
| 21:54 | <jgraham> | http://books.google.com/googlebooks/error.html <-- the internet totally needs more twitter / moby dick crossover 404 pages |
| 21:55 | <zcorpan> | i think i like dates better, but maybe that's just me. not that i actually care... |
| 21:55 | <annevk> | yeah, I think I'll keep to dates on the archived pages |
| 21:56 | <zcorpan> | i meant on the front page |
| 21:56 | <annevk> | sure |
| 21:58 | <annevk> | Hixie, what is the difference between "index" and "archives" supposed to be? |
| 22:01 | <zcorpan> | annevk: afaict archives is an index of *documents*, while index is an index of sections of one big document that has been split to several pages |
| 22:04 | <annevk> | zcorpan, the examples and description of index in HTML5 do not support that |
| 22:05 | <zcorpan> | uh, you're right, i misread the description for index |
| 22:06 | <zcorpan> | i guess the thing distinguishing them is 'hierarchical structure', which is pretty subtle |
| 22:07 | <annevk> | so in my case it would be index then |
| 22:08 | <annevk> | it's pretty hierarchical |
| 22:08 | <zcorpan> | and index can be used together with up |
| 22:08 | <zcorpan> | maybe they should be merged into one keyword |
| 22:09 | <Hixie> | annevk: dunno, file a bug. i think we should nuke them all anyway. |
| 22:09 | <Hixie> | they're not useful in practice |
| 22:09 | <annevk> | Hixie, also, do you see a problem with <nav> <a/> <a/> <a/> </nav> ? |
| 22:09 | <annevk> | yeah, I added them for matjas and to test HTML5 out |
| 22:10 | <Hixie> | you mean a <nav> that just contains one paragraph? not especially. |
| 22:10 | <annevk> | yeah, my navigation is really simple... |
| 22:10 | <annevk> | might be nice to have an example to that effect in the spec as well -- guess that would be another bug |
| 22:11 | <matjas> | I remember Hixie confirmed that <nav><a>Foo</a> | <a>Bar</a></nav> was okay like a year ago |
| 22:11 | <Hixie> | sure |
| 22:11 | <annevk> | I don't want to use separators |
| 22:11 | <Hixie> | yeah seems fine to me |
| 22:11 | <Hixie> | so long as it works fine without css :-) |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | there will be a space |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | also, AT users don't really like funny characters inbetween it seems |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | s/it seems/I heard/ |
| 22:12 | <zcorpan> | "so long as it works fine without css" - i think that's where it'll fall apart if we recommend it in the spec |
| 22:12 | <Hixie> | a11y users also find it annoying when links run into each other, from what i've heard (i.e. when two words next to each other are both links) |
| 22:12 | <Hixie> | but *shrug* |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | oh |
| 22:14 | <annevk> | yes |
| 22:14 | <annevk> | style sheet is going to be easier |
| 22:14 | <annevk> | o_O |
| 22:22 | <annevk> | fuck specifity |
| 22:22 | <annevk> | specificity even |
| 22:24 | <oojacoboo> | are there any plans to support variables and hierarchical ordering in stylesheets, like LESS CSS ? |
| 22:24 | <oojacoboo> | http://lesscss.org/ |
| 22:25 | <oojacoboo> | when writing complex application UI's stylesheets in their current format become very difficult to manage |
| 22:26 | <oojacoboo> | you end up including multiple classes in your html element attributes as a stop-gap solution, but that's just extra markup and makes the html side harder to manage |
| 22:26 | <annevk> | you want www-style⊙wo |
| 22:26 | <oojacoboo> | as more applications make their way to the web, this is going to be an increasing issue |
| 22:27 | <oojacoboo> | annevk: ? |
| 22:28 | <oojacoboo> | is that a mail group? |
| 22:28 | <AryehGregor> | Yes. |
| 22:28 | <AryehGregor> | This has been suggested a bunch of times before. |
| 22:28 | <oojacoboo> | those still exist :/ |
| 22:28 | <AryehGregor> | No progress has been made AFAICT, dunno why. |
| 22:29 | <AryehGregor> | Yep, and so do IRC chats. :) |
| 22:29 | <oojacoboo> | at least this is remotely instant... has purpose |
| 22:29 | <matjas> | Erm, I'm currently tethering my 5 kbps Edge connection from my phone to my laptop. I’ve been trying out every Geolocation demo I can think of, and they all seem to fail, in every browser. Does tethering throw off geolocation for some reason? |
| 22:29 | <AryehGregor> | So does e-mail . . . |
| 22:30 | <AryehGregor> | matjas, if your laptop doesn't have a GPS device in it, then geolocation might not work at all. |
| 22:30 | <AryehGregor> | I don't know if browsers use other location info sources in that case. |
| 22:30 | <oojacoboo> | AryehGregor: w/e, no way I want all that email coming in |
| 22:30 | <gsnedders> | AryehGregor: IP -> Geo lookup |
| 22:31 | <AryehGregor> | Then that might fail randomly, yeah. |
| 22:31 | <AryehGregor> | Dunno how cell phones get their IP addresses. |
| 22:31 | <annevk> | because I changed from #nav to nav CSS specificity is screwing me over |
| 22:31 | <matjas> | AryehGregor: I should clarify, my laptop does have a GPS device in it, and I've used Geolocation before (and tested these exact demos); they worked fine. |
| 22:31 | <zcorpan> | i don't think you need to subscribe to send email to www-style |
| 22:31 | <AryehGregor> | matjas, no idea then. What browser? |
| 22:31 | <annevk> | and fixing this sucks |
| 22:32 | <annevk> | guess I could :not(p) or some silly thing to hack around |
| 22:32 | <matjas> | AryehGregor: Well, I’ve tried every browser I have installed. Latest Chromium nightly, latest Chrome stable, latest Opera snapshot, latest Opera stable, latest Minefield nightly, latest Firefox stable… all failed |
| 22:32 | <annevk> | :any-link would be useful to have right now |
| 22:32 | <AryehGregor> | Interesting. |
| 22:32 | <AryehGregor> | What's your laptop's IP address? |
| 22:33 | <gsnedders> | Dunno what happens in the IPv6 case, FWIW |
| 22:33 | <matjas> | AryehGregor: You mean public IP right? 188.188.226.156 |
| 22:33 | <matjas> | Does that help at all? :) |
| 22:33 | <AryehGregor> | Some random geolocation site I pulled off Google gives no location info for that IP address. |
| 22:33 | <AryehGregor> | Er, wait. |
| 22:34 | <AryehGregor> | Hmm. |
| 22:34 | <annevk> | hmm not fixed |
| 22:34 | <annevk> | fail |
| 22:34 | <AryehGregor> | So maybe it's not using the GPS device for some reason, maybe it's using your IP address. |
| 22:34 | <AryehGregor> | And it can't geolocate the cell phone IP address. |
| 22:35 | <matjas> | [23:39:53] <JKarsrud_> matjas: Fails when tethering here too |
| 22:35 | <AryehGregor> | I wouldn't be surprised if IP-based geolookup typically fails when tethering. |
| 22:36 | <AryehGregor> | You'd expect it would use GPS info if you have a GPS device in the laptop, though. |
| 22:36 | <matjas> | AryehGregor: Yeah exactly. Too much weirdness |
| 22:36 | <gsnedders> | AryehGregor: Depends on drivers, etc. |
| 22:36 | <gsnedders> | matjas: What OS? |
| 22:36 | <matjas> | gsnedders: OS X |
| 22:36 | <matjas> | JKarsrud_ (who verified the problem in #html5) has a MacBook running OS X as well |
| 22:37 | <matjas> | gsnedders: So this is an OS issue? |
| 22:37 | <jgraham> | 101 signs that you spend too long thinking about standards #58: During a perfectly normal discussion about a phone implementing Near Field Communication, you keep wondering why people are talking about (Unicode) Normal Form C |
| 22:37 | <gsnedders> | matjas: No, but most OSes don't have any generic API to access GPS devices |
| 22:38 | <AryehGregor> | Oh, so looks like WebKit implemented marquee attributes after all. |
| 22:38 | <AryehGregor> | That answers that question. |
| 22:39 | <gsnedders> | matjas: So it's a matter of getting the geo data to the browser, which is ridiculously non-trivial |
| 22:39 | <matjas> | I don’t really get it… It works fine without tethering, why would it matter where the Internet connection is coming from? |
| 22:39 | <AryehGregor> | What's "most OSes" here? |
| 22:40 | <gsnedders> | AryehGregor: I can't remember |
| 22:40 | <AryehGregor> | matjas, because it's probably not using the GPS device at all. It's probably using your IP address. |
| 22:40 | <gsnedders> | Indeed. |
| 22:40 | <AryehGregor> | Which is different if you're tethering vs. using Wi-Fi. |
| 22:40 | <gsnedders> | There's a high probability that it's using IP lookup, or doing something like using the Google wifi database thing |
| 22:40 | jgraham | assumes there are environments in which geolocation actually works and that he has just never been in one |
| 22:40 | <matjas> | AryehGregor: Yeah, but why is it using the IP address lookup instead of the built-in GPS stuff when tethering is used? |
| 22:40 | <jgraham> | I guess a mobile phone with GPS |
| 22:40 | <AryehGregor> | matjas, it's probably using the IP address lookup in both cases. |
| 22:40 | <matjas> | It uses the GPS chip just fine when I'm not tethering |
| 22:41 | <gsnedders> | matjas: Are you sure it uses the GPS chip? |
| 22:41 | <AryehGregor> | How do you know it's not doing geolocation on the IP address? |
| 22:41 | <jgraham> | That seems like a testable hypothesis |
| 22:41 | <matjas> | My mistake. I’m not sure at all, I just assumed MacBooks would use the built-in GPS chip |
| 22:41 | <jgraham> | If you proxy your connection and the location changes |
| 22:42 | <matjas> | I’m 100% sure my model has a GPS-chip built-in |
| 22:42 | jgraham | would guess that just using the IP address is more likely |
| 22:42 | <jgraham> | Or maybe one of those wifi database things if you are on wifi |
| 22:42 | <matjas> | jgraham: Interesting. I will try that out as soon as I can get hold of a better connection. |
| 22:43 | <gsnedders> | matjas: The latest MacBook doesn't seem to according to Apple's site, and OS X has no location API, so there'd need to be explicit support in the browser for the GPS chip if it does exist. |
| 22:43 | <AryehGregor> | Or just use some geolocation app that reveals your location in real time, and look at the granularity. |
| 22:43 | <matjas> | gsnedders: I stand corrected. Thanks for the info! |
| 22:43 | <AryehGregor> | If it's going off IP address, it won't change as you walk around, as long as you're on the same network. |
| 22:45 | <jgraham> | The way I tell that I am getting an IP address based location is that it thinks I am in friggin' Stockholm |
| 22:46 | <annevk> | hober, now using <nav> |
| 22:46 | <annevk> | I think I am up to 3 elements HTML5 newly introduced now |
| 22:47 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: You're in Stockholm at home? The office is in Borås, IIRC. |
| 22:47 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: It thought that the office was in Stockholm too last time I tried |
| 22:48 | <jgraham> | Dunno why it changed |
| 22:48 | <Hixie> | any brits looking to be paid to give a talk on contemporary html progress? |
| 22:48 | jgraham | assumes "brits living in Sweden" don't really count :) |
| 22:48 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: When I last tried was the day we first got geolocation support :P |
| 22:48 | <Hixie> | jgraham: i already proposed you :-) (i pointed them to the wiki page) |
| 22:49 | <Hixie> | apparently swedes living in britain would be fine, but brits in sweden not so much |
| 22:49 | <jgraham> | Hixie: Oh. Heh :) |
| 22:49 | <gsnedders> | I agree with the statement up to the "to give a talk" part :) |
| 22:49 | <annevk> | Hixie, try brucel⊙oc |
| 22:50 | <Hixie> | he's in the uk? |
| 22:50 | <Hixie> | cool, didn't know |
| 22:50 | <gsnedders> | Yeah. |
| 22:50 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 22:50 | <jgraham> | Oh, that would have been a useful suggestion |
| 22:50 | <gsnedders> | I was going to suggest him, but annevk beat me |
| 22:50 | <jgraham> | Specifically he is in Birningham. But we haven't managed to disown it yet |
| 22:50 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: Any more detail about what sort of talk? |
| 22:50 | <Hixie> | um let's see |
| 22:50 | <jgraham> | *Birmingham |
| 22:50 | Hixie | looks at e-mail closer |
| 22:51 | <jgraham> | (note for the angry people reading this: I actually have nothing against Birmingham and probably wouldn't chose to let it drift off into the atlantic given the chance) |
| 22:52 | <Hixie> | "One of [some company's] large public sector clients has asked if we can deliver a presentation to their developers and architects, presenting the pros and cons of moving to HTML5 immediately" |
| 22:52 | <jgraham> | (I mean without it there would be no Black Sabbath and hence no heavy metal) |
| 22:52 | <Hixie> | well i've told the guy about brucel, if anyone else is interested let me know and i'll forward your details also |
| 22:53 | <jgraham> | (given which there wouldn't be constant metal gigs in Linkoping taking up all the avaliable concert venues) |
| 22:53 | <annevk> | whoa |
| 22:53 | <annevk> | bcc world news talks about HTML5 |
| 22:53 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Oh come on, there are almost none. |
| 22:53 | <jgraham> | (and so preventing me seeing any bands I actually like) |
| 22:53 | <jgraham> | (so yeah, fuck you Birmingham) |
| 22:53 | <annevk> | it is processor hungry |
| 22:53 | <annevk> | worse than a cookie monster |
| 22:53 | <annevk> | or something like that |
| 22:53 | <annevk> | and that was it, lol |
| 22:54 | <karlcow> | DOMContentLoaded is not defined in HTML5? (or am I missing something) |
| 22:54 | <karlcow> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-end.html#the-end |
| 22:54 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Well yeah and even if there were it wouldn't make good people suddenly play here. But if there was no metal maybe good bands would have more fans in Scandinavia |
| 22:54 | <zcorpan> | "Queue a task to fire a simple event that bubbles named DOMContentLoaded at the Document." |
| 22:55 | <annevk> | karlcow, you don't need much to define an event |
| 22:55 | <karlcow> | hehe |
| 22:55 | <annevk> | karlcow, i.e. what HTML5 says there is sufficient |
| 22:55 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Bleh, just think of all the good music there :) |
| 22:55 | <jgraham> | and stop doing "european tours" that consist of the UK, The Netherlands, France and Belgium |
| 22:55 | <jgraham> | I mean. Belgium |
| 22:55 | <annevk> | they have chocolate |
| 22:55 | <jgraham> | How awful is it to be below Belgium on the pecking order |
| 22:55 | <annevk> | and beer |
| 22:56 | <jgraham> | Belgian chocolate is not actually that nice |
| 22:56 | <annevk> | o_O |
| 22:57 | <jgraham> | Well there is probably some good stuff but all the great chocolate I find comes from France or Italy |
| 22:57 | <jgraham> | Possibly the belgians are just keeping it to themselves |
| 22:57 | <annevk> | that sounds really odd |
| 22:59 | <jgraham> | Not really. Valrhona: French. Amedei: Italian. Heaven in bar form. |
| 22:59 | <erlehmann> | can any one of you canvas experts explain to me why stroked shapes are always drawn a frame later than filled? http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/src/schwrkrft/test.html |
| 22:59 | <erlehmann> | (click on a particle in the main canvas and it gets hilighted in the secondary) |
| 23:01 | <jgraham> | Anyway the point is that The Decemberists are playing frickin' Belgium and ignoring Scandinavia entirely. Let alone anywhere I could actually get to on a weeknight |
| 23:03 | <jgraham> | And with that irrelevant rant, I will go to sleep |
| 23:05 | <annevk> | you could take some vacation ;) |
| 23:05 | <annevk> | but then you don't like the chocolate there and you don't drink beer... might be sad ;p |
| 23:08 | <erlehmann> | any one of the web cabal attending chaos communication congress at the end of the month? |
| 23:09 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I didn't see any dates announced anywhere near here :( |
| 23:09 | <annevk> | erlehmann, that's in Germany right? which days? |
| 23:10 | <gsnedders> | Yeah, they're playing in London, nowhere else in the UK :( |
| 23:10 | <gsnedders> | Or, alternatively, I can't read. |
| 23:10 | <gsnedders> | They're playing in Glasgow in March. Win. |
| 23:11 | <gsnedders> | Meh, it's the weekend I have people trying to convince me to go LARPing… |
| 23:11 | <erlehmann> | annevk, every year from 27.12 to 30.12 — but all complete-event tickets are sold out, so (as i understood it) they'll only sell day passes at the counter. |
| 23:12 | <annevk> | probably not going to make it then |
| 23:12 | <annevk> | bit unfortunate timing for me if it is the same each year |
| 23:13 | <erlehmann> | ahaha, i was just "don't worry, i'll ask again next year", but then … |
| 23:13 | <annevk> | heh |
| 23:13 | <annevk> | could organize our own one day |
| 23:14 | <annevk> | put a banner on the spec and I'm sure the masses will come :) |
| 23:14 | <erlehmann> | our own congress with thousands of hackers? hehe |
| 23:14 | <annevk> | and then when everyone arrives we announce the secret program |
| 23:15 | <annevk> | writing testcases for three days straight |
| 23:15 | <erlehmann> | “Nooooo! HTML5 testcases is … PEOPLE!” |