| 05:38 | <gwillen> | Could someone shed some light for me on the meaning of "Points on the path itself are considered to be inside the path." in the documentation of isPointInPath for the canvas element? |
| 05:38 | <gwillen> | In particular, whether the path is defined to have any particular nonzero width for this purpose? |
| 10:13 | <Philip`> | gwillen: It just means that if you do rect(0, 0, 100, 100) then points (0, 0), (100, 100), (0, 50), etc, return true for isPointInPath |
| 12:50 | Ms2ger | supports http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11621 |
| 12:53 | <espadrine> | some people have the amazing guts of being funny. That is good! |
| 15:30 | <karlcow> | I don't know if I should cry or just laugh http://webstylemag.com/ "Webstyle Magazine is the lifestyle mag for web professionals. Our mission is to delve deep into what it means to be a web professional and share what we find." |
| 15:31 | <karlcow> | The sirens of marketing have no limits. |
| 15:33 | <charlvn> | karlcow: i don't know how "Dark Chocolate and Basil Truffles" are related to web development but i have to say, they look delicious! |
| 15:33 | <karlcow> | heheh |
| 15:35 | <mhausenblas> | my personal favourite: "After all, web professionals are people too, ..." |
| 15:35 | <charlvn> | really? wow, i never knew! :P |
| 15:36 | <charlvn> | i thought we were super human... my mistake :) |
| 15:36 | <mhausenblas> | yup. must be true. http://webstylemag.com/about says it is. and they know ... |
| 15:56 | <webr3> | lmfao, good find karlcow |
| 15:59 | <webr3> | ooo http://webstylemag.com/geek-chic-done-right |
| 17:04 | <AryehGregor> | http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/sep/24/1 |
| 18:41 | <Philip`> | AryehGregor: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100927#l-329 |
| 18:42 | <Philip`> | Old news :-p |
| 18:42 | <boxendirst> | Should :invalid really be being applied to my input field before the user has even focused in it, much less attempted to submit a form? That’s what Chrome appears to be doing. On page load, wham, :invalid. |
| 18:42 | <AryehGregor> | boxendirst, yes. There's a discussion about this going on right now. |
| 18:42 | <AryehGregor> | Either whatwg or www-style, not sure. |
| 18:42 | <miketaylr> | FF4 has taken a different approach, no? |
| 18:42 | <AryehGregor> | Mozilla has :-moz-ui-invalid and :-moz-ui-valid selectors. |
| 18:42 | <AryehGregor> | Which implement a much nicer algorithm. |
| 18:43 | <boxendirst> | I don’t like it — here’s why: It makes it look like the user has made a mistake, but they haven’t yet. |
| 18:43 | <AryehGregor> | Generally speaking, WebKit's HTML5 form support is horrible. |
| 18:43 | <AryehGregor> | Right, Mozilla is much better. |
| 18:43 | <AryehGregor> | WebKit HTML5 form support deserves to be indefinitely blacklisted by authors, IMO, until they fix it up. |
| 18:43 | <boxendirst> | Is that possible except by browser sniffing? |
| 18:43 | <AryehGregor> | Probably not. |
| 18:43 | <miketaylr> | not really |
| 18:44 | <boxendirst> | Oh hey miketaylr, that’s a familiar name. |
| 18:44 | <AryehGregor> | Philip`, I got it from Raymond Chen's semiannual link clearance. |
| 18:44 | boxendirst | is actually Alan Hogan, fwiw |
| 18:44 | <miketaylr> | hi boxendirst |
| 18:44 | <boxendirst> | Howdy |
| 18:45 | <miketaylr> | aha |
| 18:47 | <boxendirst> | So, should I complain anywhere else? Chrome feedback I guess? |
| 18:47 | <karlcow> | hmm I didn't get the joke of the guardian. |
| 18:47 | <Philip`> | AryehGregor: Maybe he reads the WHATWG logs and got it from here |
| 18:48 | <AryehGregor> | boxendirst, Chrome or WebKit, yeah. |
| 18:48 | <AryehGregor> | This is really a WebKit issue, but I don't think there's an actual policy that you can't file WebKit complaints in Chrome's tracker. |
| 18:48 | <Philip`> | karlcow: Have you read many science articles on the BBC News site? |
| 18:48 | <AryehGregor> | The guy working on HTML5 forms is working for Google, anyway. |
| 18:49 | <AryehGregor> | karlcow, or the New Scientist, or most other "science for the masses" type things? |
| 18:49 | <miketaylr> | boxendirst: hunt down paul_irish when he's around too, he can point you in the right direction |
| 18:49 | <karlcow> | Philip`: I do not read a lot of "science" news articles. My academic background is astrophysics. |
| 18:49 | <boxendirst> | miketaylr will do |
| 18:50 | <boxendirst> | AryehGregor Which guy would that be (more specific than Hixie I assume)? |
| 18:50 | <karlcow> | so the answer would be no. I guess not. |
| 18:50 | <AryehGregor> | boxendirst, I mean, the guy working on WebKit's HTML5 implementation. |
| 18:50 | <AryehGregor> | Not the spec. |
| 18:50 | <AryehGregor> | The spec is Hixie's. |
| 18:50 | <boxendirst> | course, gotcha |
| 18:50 | <AryehGregor> | The guy working on their implementation is Tamura Kent, or Kent Tamura, or something. |
| 18:50 | <AryehGregor> | He capitalizes one of the names, but I forget which one. |
| 18:50 | <boxendirst> | He around here much? |
| 18:51 | <AryehGregor> | I've never seen him in this channel. |
| 18:51 | <AryehGregor> | I only ran into him when I filed bugs against WebKit's HTML5 forms implementation. |
| 19:30 | <AryehGregor> | Is it just me, or is everyone who uses the term "cognitive dissonance" automatically wrong, always? |
| 19:31 | <Dashiva> | Can it be both, or would that be cognitive dissonance? |
| 19:31 | <AryehGregor> | Can what be both? |
| 19:32 | <Dashiva> | It's just you, and they're automatically wrong |
| 19:32 | <AryehGregor> | I think that would be logically inconsistent, due to the use of the word "just". |
| 19:32 | <AryehGregor> | If they are actually wrong, it's not "just" me. |
| 19:33 | <Dashiva> | What if it's only you realizing it |
| 19:44 | <AryehGregor> | I think it's fairly clear from context that that's not the intended meaning. |
| 19:46 | <AryehGregor> | "Get ready for HTML5 Graphics: Start the new year learning SVG" |
| 19:46 | <AryehGregor> | So I guess I'm used to CSS3 being called HTML5, but now SVG too? |
| 19:46 | <AryehGregor> | Meh, it's probably not even worth commenting on. |
| 20:40 | <boxendirst> | I made a test case page for when :invalid is applied |
| 20:40 | <boxendirst> | file://localhost/Users/ajh/Dropbox/Public/web/invalid.html |
| 20:40 | <boxendirst> | haha one sec |
| 20:40 | <boxendirst> | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/105727/web/invalid.html |
| 20:40 | <boxendirst> | There’s the public version ;) |
| 20:41 | <boxendirst> | Note I used ::-webkit-input-placeholder, it’s basically necessary to get your empty, invalid, placeholder-utilizing input elements to look good |
| 20:43 | <boxendirst> | (So I would like to see that standardized) |
| 20:44 | <AryehGregor> | Mozilla has an equivalent. |
| 20:44 | <AryehGregor> | There's been discussion about it. |
| 20:44 | <AryehGregor> | It'll be standardized at some point, it's just debated whether it should be a pseudoelement or pseudoclass. |
| 20:46 | <boxendirst> | Haha yeah that is a tricky question, AryehGregor, I was just convinced it was wrong over on irc.w3.org#html-wg |
| 20:46 | <boxendirst> | but then changed my mind |
| 20:46 | <boxendirst> | Hey Paul, thoughts on this? I submitted Webkit & Chrome bugs. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/105727/web/invalid.html |
| 20:47 | <AryehGregor> | boxendirst, WebKit is correct here per spec, and matches everyone else. |
| 20:47 | <AryehGregor> | (i.e., Opera and Gecko) |
| 20:47 | <AryehGregor> | A new class like :ui-invalid is being contemplated, but :invalid will apply to all invalid controls. |
| 20:48 | <AryehGregor> | boxendirst, see this discussion: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-December/029570.html |
| 20:48 | <boxendirst> | Oh sorry |
| 20:48 | <AryehGregor> | Unfortunately it's divorced from the earlier discussion on the same topic, since mailing lists stink and Hixie doesn't respond to stuff for months so it's not the same thread in the archives anymore since those are broken up by month. |
| 20:48 | <boxendirst> | > most > UI/UX guys would tell you that the current :invalid behavior is really bad. |
| 20:49 | <AryehGregor> | Earlier discussion: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-September/028742.html |
| 20:49 | <boxendirst> | Funny, because I consider myself a UI/UX guy. |
| 20:49 | <AryehGregor> | And you happen to agree with Mounir on this point? |
| 20:49 | AryehGregor | also does, as it happens -- yay Firefox 4 for being the first with a sane HTML5 form implementation |
| 20:50 | <boxendirst> | 110% I do agree with Mounir. |
| 20:50 | <AryehGregor> | Have you checked out the Firefox 4 implementation? |
| 20:50 | <AryehGregor> | Hopefully it will persuade other vendors to follow suit. |
| 20:50 | <boxendirst> | <span lang=de>nein</span> |
| 20:51 | <boxendirst> | I suppose I’ll have to |
| 20:51 | <boxendirst> | Are they the only ones to support :ui-invalid yet? |
| 20:54 | <AryehGregor> | It's their own extension so far, so yes. :-moz-ui-invalid. |
| 23:48 | <boxendirst> | AreyahGregor, do you work for Mozilla? |
| 23:48 | <boxendirst> | (jw) |
| 23:48 | <boxendirst> | Can you do novalidate="novalidate" when the input isn’t in a form? :-/ |
| 23:49 | <boxendirst> | Whoops, aryehgregor |