| 00:00 | <gsnedders> | Peter-: sent |
| 00:00 | <aho> | woo! :) |
| 00:02 | <aho> | now, if everything goes right this stuff will go straight into preprocessors like sass/less/cssmin/whatever |
| 00:03 | <gsnedders> | (for those curious, see www-arhcive) |
| 00:03 | <gsnedders> | *www-archive |
| 00:04 | <aho> | for the lazy ones: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Mar/0007.html |
| 00:04 | <aho> | <: |
| 00:05 | <aho> | sorted by length... odd :) |
| 00:05 | <aho> | -xv-voice-pitch-range |
| 00:05 | <aho> | <- what's that? |
| 00:06 | <zewt> | tts? |
| 00:06 | <aho> | -o-, -wap-, and -xv- prefixes... hum :> |
| 00:08 | <gsnedders> | aho: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/xhtml-voice-in-style/ |
| 00:08 | <aho> | -apple-dashboard-region |
| 00:08 | <aho> | <- and that one |
| 00:08 | <aho> | gsnedders, ah :) |
| 00:11 | <Philip`> | (You can get that list of properties just by running "strings" on the opera binary and looking at the right section) |
| 00:12 | <AryehGregor> | I love doing that. |
| 00:21 | <aho> | i wonder if it's possible to pull that out of document.documentElement.style somehow |
| 00:21 | <AryehGregor> | Just try assigning every possible string as a style property and see which ones work. |
| 00:21 | <aho> | but it seems like those properties are hidden by non-iter magic :l |
| 00:22 | <aho> | i.e. "in" works, but for-in doesnt |
| 00:23 | <gsnedders> | aho: That's just the [[Configurable]] property of the property in ES |
| 00:23 | <gsnedders> | Configurable? Enumerable. |
| 00:23 | gsnedders | is blatantly too tired |
| 00:23 | <aho> | ye, but there is no way around that, is there? |
| 00:24 | <aho> | i mean... except for brute force |
| 00:24 | <AryehGregor> | The longest one is only 29 characters. |
| 00:24 | <aho> | gonna try them all! :v |
| 00:24 | <gsnedders> | aho: No, there isn't. |
| 00:24 | <AryehGregor> | That's counting the hyphens, so I guess for our purposes it's really 25 characters. |
| 00:24 | <aho> | i wonder how long that would take with IE6-9's JS engines :> |
| 00:24 | <AryehGregor> | There are what, only 52 possible characters then? |
| 00:24 | <AryehGregor> | So it's only 52^25, which is, um . . . |
| 00:25 | <aho> | >>> print 52**25 |
| 00:25 | <aho> | 7944811378381907919170379739856654861074432 |
| 00:26 | <AryehGregor> | 7944811378381907919170379739856654861074432 |
| 00:26 | <aho> | 7.9 paininthearseillions |
| 00:26 | <gsnedders> | aho: pff, you should be using some JS prompt ;P |
| 00:26 | <AryehGregor> | I did /exec -o calc 52^25 |
| 00:26 | <aho> | had that one open .) |
| 00:26 | <AryehGregor> | But XChat complained that there was already a process running. |
| 00:27 | <AryehGregor> | So I had to do pstree, ps aux a couple of times, and some kills before XChat would let me run the command. |
| 00:27 | <AryehGregor> | So you beat me. :( |
| 00:27 | <aho> | > print(Math.pow(52,25)); |
| 00:27 | <aho> | 7.944811378381908e+42 |
| 00:27 | <gsnedders> | Though admittedly the exact behaviour of Math.pow is undefined |
| 00:27 | <aho> | meep :) |
| 00:28 | <aho> | well, i think this would take pretty long... :> |
| 00:30 | <AryehGregor> | I don't think you'd need more than about a trillion universe-lifetimes, if you had a decent supercomputer. |
| 00:30 | <AryehGregor> | Hardly worth talking about if you're used to thermodynamics. |
| 00:32 | <aho> | hm |
| 00:32 | <aho> | well, there are rules to this |
| 00:33 | <aho> | one could use some kind of dictionary |
| 00:33 | <AryehGregor> | One could also run strings on the binary. |
| 00:33 | <aho> | that's cheating :v |
| 00:52 | <AryehGregor> | Does ISSUE-56 matter? |
| 00:52 | <AryehGregor> | (IRI normative references) |
| 05:45 | <Yuhong> | FYI, <XMP> was deprecated when HTML was made based on SGML. |
| 05:46 | <Yuhong> | The problem is that they didn't like the SGML CDATA feature. |
| 05:50 | <Yuhong> | But the funny thing is that then they later added the <SCRIPT> and <STYLE> tags, which had to be CDATA. (STYLE is the older one, BTW) |
| 05:51 | <Yuhong> | Now that HTML is no longer based on SGML, I wonder whether it should be undeprecated. |
| 08:15 | <annevk> | short night o_O |
| 08:15 | <annevk> | but home safe home |
| 08:19 | <foolip_> | annevk, did you see the stuff in http://code.google.com/p/html5/issues/list ? |
| 08:20 | <annevk> | oh hey cool |
| 08:29 | <annevk> | foolip_, so no, but I will patch |
| 08:30 | <foolip_> | ok |
| 08:30 | <foolip_> | I'm playing with my "log by section" thing, so I poked around a bit in your tool |
| 08:31 | <foolip_> | it's been twice now that there have been changes in the video section that I didn't notice until much later and I consider to be regressions, so it'd be good to keep track of sections |
| 08:32 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 08:33 | <annevk> | I guess I should leave my server details with someone |
| 08:33 | <annevk> | In case it gets hacked again and for updating html5.org related services |
| 08:33 | <foolip_> | it got hacked? |
| 08:33 | <annevk> | I suspect that might be tricky from an internet cafe in Bolivia |
| 08:34 | <foolip_> | in any case you shouldn't work during vacation |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | there were a couple of suspicious files |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | so far I have not managed avoiding reading a bunch of stuff while on vacation |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | including mailing lists :/ |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | maybe this time it will be better, since it is so long |
| 08:36 | <foolip_> | well, if you trust me, I could take a hack at updating the icon and shorturl thing and get an account in the process |
| 08:37 | <annevk> | I do |
| 08:38 | <annevk> | the subversion stuff is somewhat disconnected from the actual code btw |
| 08:38 | <annevk> | the actual code lives somewhere on my server together with my own site and a dozen others |
| 08:38 | <foolip_> | is it in sync at least? |
| 08:39 | <annevk> | apart from the change I made the other day |
| 08:39 | <foolip_> | that it doesn't autoupdate doesn't surprise me, that'd be enterprisy |
| 08:39 | <annevk> | I can check that in and then give you the ssh password somehow |
| 08:53 | <foolip_> | gotta have breakfast, brb |
| 09:10 | <annevk> | Hixie, you online? |
| 09:11 | <annevk> | Hixie, can you add foolip to http://code.google.com/p/html5/ and maybe make someone co-owner or admin so we don't have to rely on just you? |
| 09:48 | <Peter-> | gsnedders: got it, thanks! |
| 09:59 | <smaug____> | annevk: do you happen to know why <progress> is a form-associated element? |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | I remember it being changed to that at some point on request |
| 10:01 | annevk | looks in logs |
| 10:03 | <annevk> | hmm, at least over 1000 revisions ago |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | smaug____, it was for <label> I think: http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=4530&to=4531 |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | which has http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8554 associated with it |
| 10:05 | smaug____ | looks |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | yay for web-apps-tracker |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | answering questions for at least a few years now |
| 10:07 | <smaug____> | why does having label require form association ? |
| 10:09 | <smaug____> | or what useful does having progress.form bring in? |
| 10:09 | <annevk> | the way <label> is defined it requires a form-associated element at the moment |
| 10:09 | <annevk> | I am not sure really, maybe we should change it somewhat |
| 10:10 | <annevk> | maybe it is for form.elements to make sense |
| 10:11 | <smaug____> | if progress was resetable, this all would make some more sense |
| 10:11 | <annevk> | can you have labeled progress bar outside a form? |
| 10:11 | <smaug____> | why not? |
| 10:12 | <annevk> | just asking |
| 10:12 | <smaug____> | actually, should <progress> be even submittabled |
| 10:12 | <annevk> | don't think so |
| 10:12 | <smaug____> | submittable |
| 10:12 | <annevk> | can you file a bug? |
| 10:12 | <smaug____> | yeah |
| 10:13 | <annevk> | maybe hixie didn't consider making <label> work for non-form controls |
| 10:18 | <smaug____> | annevk: btw, progress isn't even "Listed element", so it doesn't show up in form.elements |
| 10:19 | <annevk> | oh ok |
| 10:19 | <annevk> | I remember not knowing why Hixie did it at the time but not caring enough to question it |
| 10:19 | <annevk> | hopefully I have not that too often, but I guess others pick it up in due course |
| 10:20 | <smaug____> | I was reviewing volkmar's patch for this and wondered why there is the .form |
| 11:05 | <foolip_> | annevk, so diffs are cached in the diffs/ folder to relieve the SVN server in web-apps-tracker ? |
| 11:42 | <Dashiva> | MikeSmith: Even if you use a fake URL, you're still giving away intimate knowledge of what the place is called :P |
| 11:50 | <volkmar> | smaug____: there is a .form for progress? |
| 11:51 | <smaug____> | volkmar: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-button-element.html#the-progress-element |
| 11:52 | <smaug____> | volkmar: and in your patch you do implement .form |
| 11:53 | <volkmar> | eh, meter has .form too... |
| 11:53 | <smaug____> | volkmar: the w3c bug is about meter too |
| 11:53 | <volkmar> | smaug____: i guess i should try to think a little bit more when i implement something |
| 11:53 | <volkmar> | smaug____: what's the # ? |
| 11:54 | <smaug____> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-button-element.html#the-progress-element |
| 11:54 | <volkmar> | smaug____: NaN :) |
| 11:54 | <smaug____> | uups |
| 11:54 | <smaug____> | http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12254 |
| 11:55 | <volkmar> | thanks |
| 13:04 | <annevk> | foolip, right |
| 14:01 | <foolip_> | updated gecko, opera and ie icons on http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker, any objections? |
| 14:02 | <annevk> | wow much better |
| 14:03 | <annevk> | although not too great on the red I guess |
| 14:04 | <annevk> | volkmar, hope my reply helped |
| 14:05 | <volkmar> | annevk: yep |
| 14:05 | <foolip_> | annevk, difficult to do much about that, the icons are the colors they are |
| 14:05 | <foolip_> | well, one could add shadows or something, but I'm not gonna |
| 14:06 | <annevk> | yeah, I was thinking maybe forcing a background color or something |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | adding a box-shadow to img is funny though :) |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | but not sure it looks better |
| 14:08 | <foolip_> | if something can be done with just CSS, that'd be nice |
| 14:08 | <foolip_> | the ie icon is especially ugly on red |
| 14:10 | <foolip_> | annevk, see http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fhtml5.org%2Ftools%2Fweb-apps-tracker |
| 14:10 | <foolip_> | was it necessary to add value="" for some browser? |
| 14:10 | <foolip_> | just removing it still leaves an empty input box for me |
| 14:11 | <foolip_> | ah, I see it's because of the template |
| 14:11 | <foolip_> | maybe value="" should just be valid? |
| 14:12 | <annevk> | img { background:#fff; box-shadow:1px 1px 2px #fff } maybe? |
| 14:12 | <annevk> | value is not valid? |
| 14:13 | <annevk> | actually |
| 14:13 | <annevk> | img { background:#fff; padding:1px } |
| 14:13 | <annevk> | is pretty good |
| 14:13 | <annevk> | in Opera anyway |
| 14:15 | <foolip_> | isn't a box going to be very boxy? |
| 14:15 | <foolip_> | if one makes it blurry enough maybe it will look good |
| 14:16 | <foolip_> | filed http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12256 for the value="" thing |
| 14:18 | <annevk> | foolip_, it's boxy but decent looking :) |
| 14:18 | <foolip_> | annevk, are you editing it live now so I can see? |
| 14:18 | <annevk> | live in Opera :) |
| 14:18 | <annevk> | so no |
| 14:19 | <annevk> | I just did view source and save changes |
| 14:20 | <foolip_> | img { background:#fff; padding:1px } looks very white I'll say |
| 14:21 | <foolip_> | SVG filters would be better for this I think |
| 14:21 | <foolip_> | one wants a greyscale copy of the alpha channel and then to smear that a bit, maybe tainting it a bit white/yellow |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | well yeah, you could apply rocket science |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | i was just going for visible |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | :) |
| 14:25 | <annevk> | foolip_, where does it say valid="" is invalid? |
| 14:26 | <foolip_> | not sure if it does, just assuming validator.nu is correct |
| 14:26 | <annevk> | i cannot find it |
| 14:27 | <foolip_> | can you find anything that says that the value should be a floating point number? |
| 14:28 | <annevk> | ah good point, I guess I wasn't looking in the right section |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | "The value attribute, if specified, must have a value that is a valid floating point number." |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | not allowing the empty string there does indeed seem a bug |
| 14:31 | <foolip_> | annevk, should urlshortener.py be considered part of web-apps-tracker ? |
| 14:44 | <annevk> | I guess |
| 14:44 | <annevk> | structure is all kind of adhoc |
| 19:35 | <Hixie> | foolip_: what's your e-mail address? |
| 19:35 | <Hixie> | annevk: made more of you admins |
| 19:36 | <foolip_> | Hixie, for code.google.com purposes? |
| 19:36 | <foolip_> | if so, philip⊙fo |
| 19:37 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 19:37 | <Hixie> | k, you're added |
| 19:38 | <Hixie> | it auto-expanded you to a gmail address! |
| 19:38 | <AryehGregor> | What code is this? |
| 19:38 | <Hixie> | weird |
| 19:40 | <foolip_> | oh, I have added philip⊙fo as an alternative to my google account |
| 19:40 | <foolip_> | too bad, I don't want anyone to ever use my gmail address :) |
| 19:45 | <foolip_> | Hixie, looks like it worked, thanks! |
| 19:45 | <foolip_> | AryehGregor, just some changes to http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker |
| 19:45 | <AryehGregor> | Ah. |