| 01:49 | <Yuhong> | So almost everybody knows how the IE6 monopoly was bad by now. |
| 01:49 | <Yuhong> | Now, how many know how the Netscape monopoly was bad? |
| 01:49 | <Yuhong> | Now, how many know remember the Netscape monopoly was bad? |
| 01:50 | <Yuhong> | Now, how many remember how the Netscape monopoly was bad? |
| 02:02 | <Yuhong> | So almost everybody knows how the IE6 monopoly was bad by now. |
| 02:02 | <Yuhong> | Now, how many remember how the Netscape monopoly was bad? |
| 02:06 | <zewt> | ... |
| 12:32 | <alrra> | can someone explain to me how the collaboration between WHATWG and W3C works , or who to follow when it comes to the html5 spec (or what browser follow what spec) ? |
| 12:38 | <Ms2ger> | alrra, see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#is-this-html5? |
| 13:09 | <alrra> | Ms2ger: tnx :) |
| 15:56 | <jud> | oogelly ol ooo gnen gtff ar ar ar entubu |
| 15:57 | <erlehmann> | u jelly? |
| 15:58 | <jud> | eerrgnff fuzzl frrezzl eeuen |
| 15:59 | <jud> | chic bok |
| 16:24 | <annevk> | todo list so far: write WHATWG Weekly |
| 16:25 | Ms2ger | adds mutation events to that list |
| 16:26 | <annevk> | haha |
| 16:26 | <annevk> | I discussed them with Olli and he said he still plans on removing them |
| 16:26 | <annevk> | so I'm waiting for post Firefox 4 news |
| 16:27 | <annevk> | so I guess that will be a summer item :) |
| 16:27 | <annevk> | unless someone starts doing them before then |
| 16:27 | <Ms2ger> | Were you thinking of anybody in particular? :) |
| 16:28 | <annevk> | heh, nah I won't do that to you |
| 16:32 | <annevk> | guess I'll quickly add that todo.txt file Hixie asked for |
| 16:35 | <annevk> | http://tc.labs.opera.com/apis/EventSource/todo.txt |
| 16:37 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, your test runner is trying to run that |
| 16:37 | <annevk> | gah |
| 16:42 | <annevk> | hmm testrunner seems broken anyway |
| 16:44 | <Ms2ger> | No, it claims all tests fail in Gecko |
| 16:44 | <Ms2ger> | Surely that can't be true :) |
| 16:45 | <annevk> | so it does run fine in Gecko... |
| 16:45 | <annevk> | I guess it has something to do with one of the tests |
| 16:45 | <annevk> | maybe the document.domain test :/ |
| 17:27 | <zewt> | annevk: fwiw, if people really won't buy into making initEvent optional, it almost seems better to retain the no-empty-event-type restriction and to use webkit's check, avoiding adding a pointless initEvent-was-called flag |
| 17:27 | <zewt> | (mentioning it here instead of the thread since I think it'd just confuse things there at the moment) |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | agreed |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | but it seems e.g. Jacob argues for both? |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | or does not argue for anything in particular |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | from him I mostly get the impression he doesn't like change |
| 17:29 | <zewt> | not sure with jacob since he didn't seem to know what the phrase "null string" meant |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | but not what the event model should be instead where it is currently vague |
| 17:30 | <zewt> | (he seemed to think I meant "null") |
| 17:30 | <annevk> | well he tested and null is stringified to "null" in some implementations |
| 17:30 | <zewt> | "Actually, null string has nothing to do with it. Anne has spec'd the default to be empty string, not null." |
| 17:30 | <zewt> | ^ he was confused here |
| 17:31 | <zewt> | i think |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | null string is a vague word though |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | we use empty string for that |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | s/word/term/ |
| 17:31 | <zewt> | null string is pretty universally synonymous |
| 17:32 | <zewt> | his arguments based on "interoperable" is sort of hard to buy since there's so little consistency, heh |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | http://www.google.com/search?q=null+string |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | does not seem universal |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | though Wikipedia argues that way |
| 17:32 | <zewt> | i've used the term for 15 years and never seen anyone get confused by it before :P |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | first hit for me is "Checking a string for null or empty string - Jeff Key" |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | anyways |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | yeah agreed |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | and interoperable and magic fairies works for me |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | but then say what it should be since DOM Level 3 Events is ambiguous as hell |
| 17:33 | <Ms2ger> | I guess that's what MS likes about it :à |
| 17:33 | <zewt> | i personally don't care too much about whether type can be "" or not, if it's easier to get agreement on webkit's behavior and not allowing it then that's equally fine with me |
| 17:33 | <Ms2ger> | :) |
| 17:34 | <Philip`> | const char* str = NULL; // null string |
| 17:34 | <zewt> | firefox just seems sort of broken ... accessing e.type before calling initEvent throws, and dispatchEvent(createEvent()) does nothing whatsoever afaict |
| 17:35 | <zewt> | no, that's null, not the null string |
| 17:35 | <Philip`> | 'str' is a string, and it's null |
| 17:35 | <Philip`> | so it's a null string :-) |
| 17:35 | <annevk> | omg make it stop |
| 17:36 | <zewt> | i disagree but let's move on :P |
| 17:37 | <annevk> | anyway, unless this is somehow magically resolved by Monday Ms2ger will have to make edits or I'll pick this up again end of June |
| 17:37 | <zewt> | personally I think having as simple a spec as possible is also more important here than with most cases |
| 17:37 | <annevk> | I hear standards move at a glacial pace, so there's no rush |
| 17:37 | <smaug____> | removing Mutation events is something for next year, at earliest |
| 17:38 | <zewt> | since this is such a major, core algorithm and getting rid of totally unneeded steps means it's easier for users to fully understand it |
| 17:38 | <Ms2ger> | zewt, you must be new here ;) |
| 17:38 | <zewt> | not new to algorithms :P |
| 17:38 | <annevk> | smaug____, seems fine to me |
| 20:35 | <nimbupani> | TabAtkins: you are both live-minuting in different channels? |
| 20:37 | <Hixie> | oh it's sxsw today right? |
| 20:37 | <Hixie> | anything interesting going on? |
| 20:38 | <nimbupani> | TabAtkins: is apparently live-minuting some session but I am not sure where :P |
| 20:39 | <nimbupani> | o found it its #scificities |
| 21:12 | <Iarfen> | Hi!! |
| 22:43 | <hober> | Hixie: I think the browser wars panel was today |
| 22:43 | <hober> | Hixie: I know the CSS WG panel was today |
| 23:16 | <Hixie> | hober: anything interesting happen? |
| 23:32 | <hober> | Hixie: dunno, not there |