| 03:45 | <MikeSmith> | http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/working_documents/mpeg-04/part29/WVC.zip |
| 03:47 | <MikeSmith> | the "WebVC" profile of H.264 that Apple and Cisco and others want to make royalty-free |
| 03:53 | <zewt> | zero confidence in anything "free" related to the MPEG-LA |
| 03:55 | <zewt> | the *most* benign motive i can think of for them doing anything like that is keeping more resources from going into genuinely-free competing tech |
| 04:18 | <MikeSmith> | zewt: yeah |
| 04:19 | <MikeSmith> | as Rob Glidden has put it, "It seems every few months a patent pool or some one manages to spin up wishful thinking that there will soon be a “new deal” that will answer the needs of royalty free communities, only to cleverly leave the hopeful twisting in the wind." |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | but WebVC is a bit different in that it's not an effort from MPEG overall, but instead a proposal from Apple and others that they are trying to convince the other MPEG members to make royalty free |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | so it seems good that they are trying at least |
| 04:47 | <zewt> | doesn't seem terribly good that they're trying to arrange for the web to use a format that's "free" in some particular (presumably limited profile) state, whose other features and future development have no promise of following suit |
| 04:48 | <zewt> | (call me cynical; with anything involving organizations like the MPEG-LA, it's usually the safest default) |
| 10:43 | <MikeSmith> | anybody aware of Selectors API test suites other than http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api-testsuite/ and http://ejohn.org/apps/selectortest/ ? |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | Gecko removed support for UTF-32 right? I wonder why it's still in http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/intl/uconv/src/charsetalias.properties |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | Quite a few cases in http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/intl/uconv/src/charsetalias.properties have uppercase characters in the key |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | e.g. "csMacintosh" and "csIBM864"... |
| 10:46 | <Ms2ger> | Those may be bugs, actually |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | Or not |
| 10:47 | <annevk> | At some point bugs become features :) |
| 10:48 | <annevk> | Gecko also still has the three Thai encodings as distinct |
| 10:49 | <Ms2ger> | I thought I remembered that those weren't picked up, but I don't find code to back that up |
| 10:49 | <annevk> | I believe that's true |
| 10:50 | <annevk> | aah https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=235090 |
| 10:51 | <annevk> | UTF-16 is as recent as 2004 |
| 10:51 | <annevk> | well part of it |
| 10:51 | <annevk> | I guess back then there still was a chance to get rid of it |
| 10:53 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: do you know of XHR test suite other than http://tc.labs.opera.com/apis/XMLHttpRequest/ ? |
| 10:54 | <annevk> | the CORS tests uploaded recently have XHR tests in them |
| 10:54 | <MikeSmith> | uploaded to where? |
| 10:54 | <MikeSmith> | dvcs? |
| 10:54 | <annevk> | http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webappsec/ |
| 10:55 | <MikeSmith> | hai |
| 10:55 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 11:56 | <annevk> | never really thought about this http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/nqerr/i_am_a_totally_blind_redditer/c3b6z7a that's kind of a major fail |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: does anybody support the From-Origin header yet? |
| 12:00 | <annevk> | don't think so |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 12:01 | <MikeSmith> | know if there are any test suites for data URL support? |
| 12:02 | <annevk> | http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/data/ |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 14:56 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, seeing some odd behavior with http://platform.html5.org/ in Opera |
| 14:57 | <MikeSmith> | try any of the links after the Server-Sent Events ones |
| 15:05 | <annevk> | works here... |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | ooh |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | a bit further on I do notice something odd |
| 15:06 | <smaug____> | Hixie: ping |
| 17:58 | <zewt> | wow. firefox with the single worst browser slogan I've ever seen: "Different by Design" |
| 18:12 | <zewt> | heh ff9 fullscreen api is seriously buggy ... no wonder it's disabled by default (but they shouldn't have mentioned it in the changelog) |
| 19:59 | <Yuhong> | I wonder about how much of the CSS2 recommendation from 1998 turned out to be implementable. |
| 20:00 | <gsnedders> | I don't there was that much that was, if only because it is so vague. |
| 20:00 | <gsnedders> | The vagueness leads to contradictions in edge-cases, though, to be fair. |
| 20:01 | <Yuhong> | Can anyone estimate a percentage? |
| 20:35 | <tantek> | Yuhong, Gsnedders, most of it was implementable. |
| 20:36 | <tantek> | even if vague |
| 20:37 | <Yuhong> | tantek: Yea, text-shadow in particular was I read implemented by Tasman, while it is only IE10 that finally implemented it in Trident. |
| 20:37 | <tantek> | gsnedders, on the contrary, vagueness leads to being able to resolve apparent contradictions by selective interpretation of said vagueness. |
| 20:37 | <tantek> | It's excessive precision (duplicated across sections/chapters) that lead to most contradictions. |
| 20:37 | <gsnedders> | tantek: Yeah, I know |
| 20:37 | <Yuhong> | tantek: I bitched in Chris Wilson's blog about Tasman not being ported to Windows. You worked at MS doing it, right? |
| 20:38 | <tantek> | Yuhong, yes, I was the dev lead for Tasman |
| 20:38 | <gsnedders> | I was under the impression that Tasman was ported to Windows, albeit never shipped |
| 20:38 | <tantek> | gsnedders, that's right. |
| 20:38 | <annevk> | what's the difference between http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/intl/uconv/src/ and http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/intl/uconv/src/ |
| 20:38 | <gsnedders> | tantek: Not for IE, though, right? |
| 20:38 | <tantek> | and ported to numerous other OS's/processors (mostly embedded systems like set top boxes etc.) |
| 20:39 | <gsnedders> | tantek: Or was it intented that IE would use it eventually? |
| 20:39 | <tantek> | gsnedders - there was a Win32 Tasman Shell that ran the Tasman engine. |
| 20:39 | <tantek> | There was a possibility of using Tasman to do XHTML rendering. |
| 20:39 | <tantek> | But then it turned out that XHTML didn't matter. |
| 20:39 | <Yuhong> | tantek: Has hooking Tasman via X-UA-Compatible been considered? |
| 20:40 | <tantek> | Yuhong, since the latter years of the 2000s, browser engines long since eclipsed Tasman. |
| 20:41 | <Yuhong> | tantek: But it might have a good starting point. I know it is too late for it now though. |
| 20:41 | <tantek> | except perhaps in size/speed (we got it down to being smaller than Opera, less memory requirements, and much faster) |
| 20:42 | <Ms2ger`> | annevk, the latter is Firefox 3.0 |
| 20:42 | <gsnedders> | tantek: How many people did you have working on it the time of IE/Mac's cancelation? |
| 20:43 | <Yuhong> | tantek: But what about back in 2007-2008? |
| 20:43 | <Yuhong> | tantek: When X-UA-Compatible was being considered during IE8 development. |
| 20:44 | <gsnedders> | I doubt Tasman would be a better base than Trident as-of-IE8 for what has been implemented CSS-wise in IE9/10. |
| 20:45 | <gsnedders> | IE8 gave them a layout engine that's probably a decent advantage over everyone else for a lot of the more radical CSS3 modules. |
| 20:45 | <Yuhong> | gsnedders: I know by the time of IE9 it was too late, but I am talking about during *IE8* development. |
| 20:46 | <gsnedders> | Yuhong: I expect regardless of choice of Trident/Tasman you're gonna have to rewrite a lot of it for make up for years of non-development. |
| 20:46 | <gsnedders> | When you're rewriting it, it won't make much difference as to which you choose. |
| 20:51 | <Yuhong> | gsnedders: but note for example Tasman already implemented XHTML, while IE8 didn't. |
| 20:52 | <Yuhong> | gsnedders: And IE6/7 lack of support for XHTML was already bad enough. |
| 20:53 | <gsnedders> | True, but plenty of people don't view lack of XHTML support as a major concern. |
| 20:53 | <gsnedders> | (Though I was led to believe Trident had major architectural issues that made it difficult) |
| 20:57 | <annevk> | Ms2ger`: interesting, so where did charsetalias.properties move? |
| 21:00 | <annevk> | Ms2ger`: is that http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/intl/uconv/src/nsUConvModule.cpp now? |
| 21:00 | <Ms2ger`> | intl/locale/src/charsetalias.properties |
| 21:00 | <Ms2ger`> | (Bug 637599) |
| 21:01 | <Yuhong> | So can anyone estimate the percentage of CSS2 recommendation that was implementable? |
| 21:01 | <Yuhong> | So can anyone estimate the percentage of the CSS2 recommendation from 1998 that was implementable? |
| 21:01 | <Ms2ger`> | Sure |
| 21:01 | <Ms2ger`> | About 142%, I'd say |
| 21:05 | <annevk> | thanks Ms2ger` |
| 21:06 | <annevk> | Ms2ger`: that file looks more reasonable than the one I have been looking at |
| 21:06 | <Ms2ger`> | Np |
| 21:09 | <Yuhong> | gsnedders: Yea, IE9 had to rewrite the XML support. |
| 21:09 | <Yuhong> | gsnedders: Before IE9, XML parsing in IE used the external MSXML library. |
| 21:10 | <Yuhong> | (in IE6 and later, MSXML3) |
| 21:35 | <Yuhong> | I wonder if there is a way to fool sites into thinking that document.all exists. |
| 21:35 | <Yuhong> | I wonder if there is a way to fool sites into thinking that document.all exists in Mozilla. |
| 21:37 | <Yuhong> | (I want to play with this: http://grox.net/doc/web/javascript/dynduo/) |
| 21:38 | <Yuhong> | Funny thing that Mozilla only now is completing their support for the IE4 DOM. |
| 23:51 | <Yuhong> | Trivia: You can set contentEditable in IE8 and later's Developer Tools. |
| 23:51 | <Yuhong> | I am using that to play around. |