| 09:12 | <annevk> | happy 2012 everyone |
| 11:50 | <annevk> | not a bad start: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-December/019112.html |
| 11:55 | <Ms2ger> | I wonder why ES people are so desperate to change typeof |
| 12:00 | <annevk> | not everyone is, but Brendan Eich says people are being bitten by just checking for object and then assuming it has properties |
| 12:01 | <annevk> | (typeof null == 'object') |
| 12:11 | <annevk> | On Twitter, "Who to follow" basically became a spam list? |
| 12:11 | <annevk> | E.g. for the @WHATWG account it suggests all kinds of Dutch crap to me |
| 12:45 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: Because it's the most common complaint about the language by web developers. |
| 12:52 | Philip` | can't remember having ever used typeof in any code he's written |
| 12:56 | Ms2ger | can remember Philip` using typeof |
| 12:57 | <Ms2ger> | I see two in canvas-tests.js and three in tests2d.yaml |
| 13:00 | <Philip`> | Pfft, tests don't count |
| 13:25 | <annevk> | Is someone maintaining a non-PDF Unicode specification? |
| 15:11 | <AryehGregor> | typeof null == "null" actually would be pretty nice. The fact that functions have typeof equal to "function" is annoying too. |
| 15:14 | <bga> | or just remove typeof operator because its text protocol/string typing, and use ===/instanceof instead |
| 15:15 | <bga> | anyway es6 will nonbackward compatible w/ es5- |
| 15:15 | <bga> | and we can do radical changes |
| 15:20 | <AryehGregor> | . . . according to Wikimedia traffic logs, WebKit almost has more market share than IE now. IE is down to 34.16% as of October. Wow. |
| 15:20 | <AryehGregor> | And Firefox is down from 30.71% in April 2009 to 23.56% in October 2011. |
| 15:20 | AryehGregor | clearly hasn't been paying attention |
| 15:21 | <bga> | thats good |
| 15:24 | <AryehGregor> | Dunno if the news about Firefox is good. |
| 15:25 | <AryehGregor> | A WebKit monoculture would sure be a lot better than an IE monoculture, but I don't think we actually want it. |
| 15:25 | <espadrine> | I think Firefox will increase again: the latest release has been acclaimed for its speed and they are starting to have a real web inspector |
| 15:26 | <AryehGregor> | Hope so. |
| 15:26 | <AryehGregor> | (this sentiment is not related to the fact that I started working for Mozilla today instead of Google) |
| 15:26 | <espadrine> | Good for you ;) |
| 15:27 | <espadrine> | what are you working on? |
| 15:33 | <annevk> | oh congrats AryehGregor |
| 15:45 | <zewt> | would be more interesting to compare webkit !mobile vs. IE than all webkit |
| 15:50 | <zewt> | espadrine: i wouldn't expect that--only developers can tell one FF release from another right now, and only if they're looking for it |
| 15:54 | <divya> | congrats AryehGregor |
| 16:22 | <gsnedders> | bga: The intention now is it will be backwards compatible with ES5-strict |
| 16:23 | gsnedders | has certainly used typeof plenty... in test harnesses. |
| 16:23 | <gsnedders> | I've written too many. :\ |
| 16:25 | <bga> | gsnedders Object(foo) instanceof String much better imho |
| 16:25 | <bga> | also it will be good if instanceof will work w/o Object() wrapper |
| 16:25 | <gsnedders> | bga: But how do we get rid of string/number/boolean primitives in a backwards compatible way? |
| 16:28 | <bga> | before i should collect examples when implict Object() to any primitives will break code |
| 16:29 | <bga> | of cource you can emulate typeof via instanceof |
| 16:30 | <gsnedders> | bga: Things rely upon the different semantics of the primitives v. their object wrappers. |
| 16:30 | <gsnedders> | So emulating typeof doesn't work. |
| 16:31 | <bga> | but rid of text protocols from js will make CS culture of js community much better |
| 16:32 | <bga> | gsnedders i understand, thats why modern langs dont support pritives, everything is object really |
| 16:51 | <gsnedders> | bga: Oh, I totally agree it would be a lovely change. |
| 16:51 | <gsnedders> | There never should have been the primitive/object duality of the String/Number/Boolean. |
| 16:52 | <gsnedders> | The situation would be much better if there was only one of the two --- regardless of which. Of course, I think most people would rather the object. |
| 17:04 | <Ms2ger> | AryehGregor, welcome :) |
| 17:05 | <AryehGregor> | espadrine, I'm working on specs. Same as before. Number one duty is still the editing spec, but that doesn't need much of my attention right now. The first thing I'm starting on other than that is writing tests for CSS transforms/animations. |
| 17:06 | <Ms2ger> | \o/ |
| 17:06 | <AryehGregor> | (for which I've never read the spec, but will soon, I guess) |
| 17:07 | <AryehGregor> | Also I'm apparently wanted to figure out exactly what we want [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] for. |
| 17:07 | <AryehGregor> | I think I'll do the CSS test stuff first. |
| 17:13 | <AryehGregor> | Ms2ger, do you have an opinion on the XXX here? http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/dom-core.html#dom-range-intersectsnode |
| 17:14 | <AryehGregor> | Or annevk or whoever. |
| 17:15 | <annevk> | AryehGregor: all implementations is WebKit/Presto? |
| 17:15 | <AryehGregor> | annevk, yes. |
| 17:16 | <AryehGregor> | (Apparently Gecko used to have support, but it dropped it.) |
| 17:16 | <annevk> | AryehGregor: I'd suggest asking someone from WebKit |
| 17:16 | <annevk> | generally I'm in favor of less exceptions |
| 17:16 | AryehGregor | will try sometime other than New Year's Day |
| 17:17 | <gsnedders> | fewer exceptions, damn it! |
| 17:17 | <gsnedders> | Sorry, I must not be a grasmmar nazi. |
| 17:49 | <annevk> | oh |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | the sleeper spam accounts have awoken again on the wiki |
| 17:51 | <annevk> | guess we-spam-wikis took a week off or so |
| 17:59 | <zewt> | just delete any old account that's never done anything? |
| 18:03 | <dglazkov> | Happy New Year, Whatwg! |
| 18:04 | <gsnedders> | Eh, so there are two dates that dglazkov has special messages for. |
| 18:05 | <zewt> | irc etiquette #1: no pointless timed messages |
| 18:05 | <gsnedders> | zewt: It varies too much in time to be that. |
| 19:12 | <GOtaYO> | heloo every body |
| 19:54 | <zewt> | ebay implementing fake scrollbars makes me sad |
| 19:56 | <bga> | doom of web |
| 20:27 | <Yuhong> | I wonder how the incomplete CSS1 test suite used to prove that IE6 was CSS1 "compliant" was designed in the first place. |
| 20:37 | <AryehGregor> | Most of the test suites before very very recently were not much to write home about. |
| 20:37 | <AryehGregor> | In fact, most of them today also aren't. |
| 21:20 | <gsnedders> | I believe the design of the testsuite was mostly "Hixie wrote a bunch of tests". |