| 00:02 | <Hixie> | dglazkov: vacation, back early feb |
| 00:08 | <tomz> | Hixie: any idea who to contact at W3C to notify them that http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/css3/selectors/fieldset.htm is out-of-date? |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | nobody at w3c, i would hope |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | who at microsoft, no idea |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/ has a message from Jason Upton, so I'd start with him |
| 00:10 | <tomz> | Hixie: ms posted that for errors in these tests to contact the appropriate wc3 group, i assume because they submitted these as standards tests. I'll track down Jason and ask for more details. |
| 00:11 | <Hixie> | oh if the tests are html wg tests then i guess you'd contact the html wg test group |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing/Feedback/ |
| 00:12 | <tomz> | Hixie: thanks. |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | you can probably just upload a fix if you're part of that group |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | it's a public repoi |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | repo |
| 00:15 | <Hixie> | hober: yt? |
| 00:18 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: do you know if the csswg has done anything with ::cover/::backdrop-of(), 'anchor', or any of the other things needed by fullscreen and <dialog>? |
| 00:23 | <TabAtkins> | hober and anne were the people owning that, but anne's gone and hober hasn't done anything. |
| 00:24 | <Hixie> | k |
| 00:25 | <Hixie> | is anne still doing css stuff? |
| 00:25 | <Hixie> | i thought he'd dropped all his css and cssom specs |
| 00:40 | <TabAtkins> | He did, yes. |
| 00:40 | <TabAtkins> | That's what I meant by "gone". |
| 00:40 | <Hixie> | oh i thought oyu meant he was on vacation :-) |
| 00:41 | <Hixie> | hopefully i can catch hober at some point and see what's up |
| 00:41 | <Hixie> | failing that i'll just spec the stuff in html the same way as for @global |
| 00:42 | <Hixie> | i need to understand fullscreen better though before i can do that |
| 00:42 | <Hixie> | also need to figure out what we want to have happen if you fullscreen a sibling of a modal active <dialog> |
| 00:43 | <Hixie> | and what we want to have happen if you show() a <dialog> in an iframe... does it break the frame? i'm guessing no, security-wise, but roc suggested the answer might be yes in one of the threads. |
| 00:44 | <TabAtkins> | Yes, it's something that needs some thought. |
| 00:45 | <Hixie> | oh fullscreen is probably still on anne's plate actually |
| 00:45 | <Hixie> | since iirc that was one of the specs he was doign outside the csswg |
| 00:45 | <Hixie> | caused a kerfuffle iirc |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | i guess i'll just wait for him to get back and speak to him about it |
| 00:47 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah. |
| 00:51 | <roc> | Hixie: fullscreen is restricted so that you can only fullscreen a descendant of the current fullscreen element |
| 00:51 | <roc> | avoids the sibling problem |
| 00:51 | <Hixie> | k |
| 00:51 | <Hixie> | not sure what that means for <dialog> exactly |
| 00:52 | <TabAtkins> | I guess modal dialogs should be treated as full-screen? |
| 00:52 | <Hixie> | you can have multiple <dialog> elements at once, when they're not modal |
| 00:52 | <Hixie> | coming from entirely different parts of the DOM |
| 00:52 | <roc> | my gut feeling is that <dialog> should be treated like fullscreen except without making the browser window fullscreen |
| 00:52 | <roc> | dunno about non-modal dialogs ... bleh |
| 00:53 | <Hixie> | well i'll study the fullscreen spec in more detail later |
| 01:00 | <Hixie> | ok i'm about to add a rule to HTML's ua.css sheet that has a selector that is eight lines long and has neither combinator nor comma. |
| 01:02 | <jamesr_> | how does that work? are you not considering space a combinator? |
| 01:02 | <Hixie> | space is a combinator |
| 01:02 | <jamesr_> | hm, lots o' pseudo? |
| 01:02 | <Hixie> | looooooots of pseudos |
| 01:03 | <TabAtkins> | I'm curious! |
| 01:03 | <Hixie> | though oddly enough, it's specificity is only 1 for the class level! |
| 01:05 | <Hixie> | ah, crap |
| 01:05 | <Hixie> | actually |
| 01:05 | <Hixie> | I can't make it 8 lines long |
| 01:06 | <Hixie> | since there's no way to split a selector that contains no spaces |
| 01:06 | <Hixie> | hmm... |
| 01:06 | <Hixie> | unless... |
| 01:07 | <Hixie> | aha! |
| 01:07 | <Hixie> | eeeexcellent |
| 01:08 | <roc> | this being Chrome-only sucks: http://getcrackin.angrybirds.com/ :-( |
| 01:08 | <TabAtkins> | Using newline escapes? |
| 01:09 | <Hixie> | newline escapes don't work in selectors |
| 01:11 | <Hixie> | tis checked in if you want to poke fun at me |
| 01:11 | <Hixie> | btw if you want to see other gnarly selectors in the HTML spec, check out the auto-generated 'quotes' rules now |
| 01:13 | <TabAtkins> | what section of Rendering is it in? |
| 01:14 | <Hixie> | the thing i just added is in Bidirectional text |
| 01:14 | <TabAtkins> | Woah, found it. |
| 01:14 | <Hixie> | and quotes is the next section |
| 01:15 | <TabAtkins> | :not() should accept a compound selector list, at least. |
| 01:19 | <jamesr_> | roc, tell rovio? |
| 01:20 | <roc> | why don't you tell them? They're your partners |
| 01:22 | <divya> | roc best part is the lol-worthy sniffing |
| 01:22 | <roc> | I actually contacted the contact email, who said "The web browser version of Angry Birds is only supported by Google Chrome. That’s how the original was built as well so we were locked into building on top of their existing platform." |
| 01:22 | <roc> | of course, chrome.angrybirds.com works fine in Firefox, and I pointed this out... |
| 01:22 | <divya> | https://github.com/miketaylr/Snort/blob/master/snort.yml#L1263 |
| 01:27 | <Hixie> | i don't understand why people who want to target a particular browser feel the need to roadblock other browsers |
| 01:27 | <Hixie> | maybe display a disclaimer about it not having been tested or something, but come on |
| 01:27 | <Hixie> | just write to the damn specs and let the browsers figure it out |
| 01:27 | <roc> | indeed |
| 01:28 | <roc> | in this case, if you hack past that roadblock, you get a page that mostly works but can't play due to some webkit-prefixed stuff (IIRC) |
| 01:29 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: i don't understand your most recent e-mail |
| 01:29 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: surely if the browser determins the tab order dynamically from the presentation, the whole point is moot |
| 01:30 | <TabAtkins> | I'd probably have to give some examples. Busy right now. |
| 01:30 | <Hixie> | k |
| 01:31 | <TabAtkins> | But the issue is definitely independent of presentation. |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | i don't see how, but ok. i gotta go now. if you could add more to the thread when you get a chance that would be fantastic |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | don't worry about it otherwise |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | right, bbl |
| 06:02 | <Hixie> | wtf |
| 06:03 | <Hixie> | why is chrome claiming my websocket server sends back non-utf-8 data |
| 06:03 | <Hixie> | are there any tools out there for debugging websocket servers? |
| 06:11 | <Hixie> | ohhhhh |
| 06:11 | <Hixie> | i am dumb |
| 10:42 | <asmodai> | So, what's the aim for Opera's MathML support? Full support or only the CSS profile? |
| 16:27 | kjetilkWork | is looking for annevk, is he hanging out on IRC much these days? |
| 16:30 | <Velmont> | kjetilkWork: Nope, he's vacationing :P |
| 16:31 | <kjetilkWork> | Velmont, OK, any idea when he's back? |
| 16:31 | <Ms2ger`> | Back next week-ish, I think |
| 16:31 | <kjetilkWork> | OK, thanks! |
| 16:32 | <Velmont> | Ms2ger`, or someone else: IndexedDB spec is referencing a DOMException that is TypeError, -- however, in the referenced DOM3, I can't really find that. TypeMismatchError, I can find, but not TypeError. Is it a) a bug in IndexedDB spec, or b) something else? -- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndexedDB/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#widl-IDBDatabase-transaction-IDBTransaction-any-storeNames-unsigned-short-mode |
| 16:33 | <Ms2ger`> | Velmont, there isn't one |
| 16:33 | <Ms2ger`> | But it may not be a bug |
| 16:34 | <Velmont> | Ms2ger`: They don't make a new DOMException TypeError themselves either, like they do for NotFoundError and other new types. |
| 16:35 | <Ms2ger`> | Hm |
| 16:35 | <Ms2ger`> | It's probably meant to be a JS-TypeError |
| 16:35 | <Velmont> | Ah, yes. |
| 16:50 | <mhausenblas> | any opinions on ReSpec v2? |
| 16:50 | <Ms2ger`> | Use Anolis instead |
| 16:50 | <mhausenblas> | hu? |
| 16:51 | mhausenblas | currently using http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html |
| 16:51 | <mhausenblas> | not clear what the diff is and how 'stable' v2 is |
| 16:51 | <Ms2ger`> | Writing a document that's unusable without JS is an antipattern |
| 16:51 | <mhausenblas> | ah! gsnedders's work, right |
| 16:52 | <mhausenblas> | Ms2ger`, only during spec writing, then it's saved to pure HTML |
| 16:52 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger`: Or, as we say on the web "pattern" |
| 16:52 | <Ms2ger`> | jgraham-- |
| 16:52 | <jgraham> | Add a comma as needed |
| 16:52 | <jgraham> | Or a (semi)colon, I suppose |
| 16:52 | <jgraham> | If that's your thing |
| 16:55 | <mhausenblas> | tx guys. seems ReSpec doesn't resonate with ye ;) |
| 16:55 | jgraham | understands that some people really like ReSpec |
| 16:55 | <Ms2ger`> | Well, some people like git |
| 16:55 | <mhausenblas> | it's handy |
| 16:55 | <mhausenblas> | I do! |
| 16:56 | <mhausenblas> | git > hg > svn > CVS |
| 16:56 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger`: Those people are "people who got over the learning curve" I think |
| 16:56 | <jgraham> | s/curve/cliff/ if you like |
| 16:56 | mhausenblas | bets Ms2ger` prefers CVS, right? :P |
| 16:57 | <Ms2ger`> | HG, actually |
| 16:57 | <mhausenblas> | no, really? |
| 16:57 | <Ms2ger`> | CVS is an abomination in the eyes of the lord |
| 16:57 | <Ms2ger`> | And I don't like it much either |
| 16:57 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger`: oh you are just ashamed to admit your VSS fetish |
| 16:57 | mhausenblas | used to be a bitucket fanboy but TBH github seems more productive to me |
| 16:57 | <mhausenblas> | he he |
| 16:57 | <mhausenblas> | VSS rules! |
| 16:57 | <Ms2ger`> | VSS? |
| 16:58 | <mhausenblas> | Visual Source Safe? |
| 16:58 | <mhausenblas> | or so |
| 16:58 | mhausenblas | admits that he's been using this piece of $hit some 10y ago |
| 16:59 | <jgraham> | First palce I ever worked was a game company that used VSS. Their method of version control seemed to involve lots of shouting at each other to release the locks |
| 16:59 | jgraham | didn't really understand version control or software development at the time |
| 17:00 | <jgraham> | But I understood that VSS sucked! |
| 18:00 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 18:00 | <Ms2ger`> | Good night |
| 18:59 | <TabAtkins> | Um. Can someone who speaks Japanese tell me what the hell this is? https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/431090_361580643870743_164814896880653_1241513_2073993201_n.jpg |
| 19:03 | <AryehGregor> | Surprise: table rendering is not interoperable! |
| 19:03 | <divya> | :)) |
| 19:04 | <AryehGregor> | Who'd've thunk it? |
| 19:05 | <AryehGregor> | . . . Does Gecko display only one caption per table? |
| 19:07 | <AryehGregor> | Well, it seems that's invalid, but the extra ones should still render. |
| 19:08 | <TabAtkins> | What's the behavior with multiple display:table-caption elements? |
| 19:08 | <AryehGregor> | CSS2.1 says they should all be rendered. |
| 19:08 | <AryehGregor> | Gecko seems to not render any past the first. |
| 19:09 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, I just wondered if Gecko had a difference between HTML and CSS captions. |
| 19:09 | <AryehGregor> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=144517 |
| 19:09 | <AryehGregor> | Dunno. |
| 19:10 | <AryehGregor> | Ah, looks like there are reftests in the CSS2.1 suite that Gecko fails because of this. |
| 19:10 | <AryehGregor> | Okay, so it's a known issue on all counts. |
| 19:21 | <Ms2ger`> | AryehGregor, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=144517 |
| 19:21 | <AryehGregor> | Ms2ger`, I already found it. |
| 19:22 | <AryehGregor> | Thanks, though. |
| 19:25 | <Ms2ger`> | Np |
| 20:26 | <roc> | TabAtkins: is Chrome going to add a same-origin restriction for fonts? |
| 20:27 | <Ms2ger`> | "Well that's just silly." |
| 20:27 | <Ms2ger`> | Oh, isn't it |
| 20:29 | <Hixie> | that particular bug is ridiculous |
| 20:29 | <Hixie> | i don't even understand how we got there |
| 20:29 | <Hixie> | who implements those two functions as synonyms?! |
| 20:31 | Ms2ger` | has a look at bonsai |
| 20:31 | <TabAtkins> | roc: I hope so? |
| 20:32 | <roc> | the longer you wait, the more pressure builds on us to drop ours |
| 20:32 | <roc> | sorta like our stance on WebM |
| 20:32 | <TabAtkins> | I'll bring it up at the f2f. It's Apple people who were fighting it. |
| 20:33 | <roc> | does it need to be Webkit-wide? |
| 20:33 | <TabAtkins> | It's best for it to be so, yes. |
| 20:33 | <TabAtkins> | We try and minimize platform differences. |
| 20:33 | <Ms2ger`> | Hixie, kipp⊙nc ;) |
| 20:33 | <TabAtkins> | (Despite the fact that Apple's already forked WebKit...) |
| 20:33 | <roc> | huh? |
| 20:34 | <TabAtkins> | For all practical purposes, iOS uses a fork. |
| 20:34 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger`: kiiiippppp! figures. |
| 20:34 | <roc> | interesting |
| 20:34 | <Ms2ger`> | (Revision 1.1 of nsGlobalWindow.cpp has it) |
| 20:34 | <TabAtkins> | Not sure if iBooks uses the iOS fork or a new one, but it's in the same boat. |
| 20:35 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger`: probably brendan's fault in a netscape < 4 |
| 20:35 | <Ms2ger`> | Might very well have been |
| 20:35 | <Ms2ger`> | But that isn't on MXR, afaik |
| 20:36 | <Hixie> | indeed |
| 20:36 | <Ms2ger`> | I'd look up what Opera does, but they don't let me :( |
| 20:51 | <astearns> | TabAtkins: I've been told that iBooks is using Pages, not Webkit |
| 20:54 | <TabAtkins> | astearns: That doesn't seem correct from what I've seen, but I'm not certain. |
| 20:57 | <roc> | hyatt did a lot of Webkit work for iBooks (possibly an older version though) |
| 20:58 | <gsnedders> | iBooks is certainly using WebKit, as can be seen if you open up the ZIP archive. |
| 20:59 | <astearns> | the markup is one thing, the engine displaying that markup might be something else. I don't know for sure, though. |
| 20:59 | <gsnedders> | I doubt it's anything but WebKit given the number of -webkit- prefixes in it. |
| 21:01 | <Hixie> | surely not even microsoft would use a word processor engine to render html content |
| 21:01 | <Hixie> | oh wait |
| 21:01 | hober | is staying out of this one |
| 21:02 | <TabAtkins> | Hey, hober, Hixie was looking for you. |
| 21:03 | <hober> | Hixie: yo |
| 21:03 | <Hixie> | true |
| 21:03 | <Hixie> | something about dialog and fullscreen |
| 21:03 | <Hixie> | i forget what now |
| 21:03 | <hober> | oh, fun |
| 21:03 | <TabAtkins> | It's just a little bit up the scrollback, dude. |
| 21:03 | <Hixie> | i think i ended up concluding that i was waiting for anne to get back |
| 21:03 | <Hixie> | since he's still working on fullscreen |
| 21:04 | <hober> | ahh, i see |
| 21:04 | <hober> | yeah, the www-style thread on that didn't go anywhere iirc |
| 21:04 | <Hixie> | we need to figure out how the css parts of dialog and fullscreen work before i spec <dialog> |
| 21:04 | <TabAtkins> | It was about ::cover, and how it interacted with multiple dialogs (modal and not) and fullscreen. |
| 21:04 | <hober> | yes |
| 21:04 | <Hixie> | yeah, that sounds right |
| 21:10 | <Hixie> | anyone know if the dom ui events spec is tracking http://www.w3.org/mid/op.v5t7fxvq2q99of@coruscant ? |
| 21:10 | <Hixie> | or did they decide to punt on key events |
| 21:12 | <Ms2ger`> | They haven't done much since the f2f |
| 23:15 | <thedjpetersen> | 7/close |
| 23:20 | <Hixie> | heycam: should I liberally sprinkle [ArrayClass] everywhere? |
| 23:21 | <heycam> | Hixie, if you want your prototype objects to inherit from Array.prototype, sure |
| 23:24 | <Hixie> | k |
| 23:24 | <Hixie> | so how do i add it to something that inherits from EventTarget? |
| 23:27 | <Hixie> | ok looks like every single interface i have that i could apply [ArrayClass] to inherits from EventTarget |
| 23:28 | <Hixie> | d'oh |
| 23:37 | <Hixie> | sicking: see, i told you inheriting from EventTarget was a bad idea. :-P |
| 23:53 | <heycam> | Hixie, yeah it's not going to work in that case... |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | blimey, selectors still doesn't define that :hover works up the ancestor chain |
