| 00:16 | <Hixie> | ok i failed to do canvas today. will try again monday. :-) |
| 00:38 | <Yuhong> | annevk: When Opera has to reparse XML as text/html, I suggest the reparse be done with *scripting disabled*. |
| 00:52 | <Velmont> | Yuhong: Why? |
| 01:26 | <Yuhong> | XSS attacks. |
| 01:33 | <danielfilho> | I can only receive the emails from whatwg mail list if I work for a w3c member organization? :( |
| 01:33 | <danielfilho> | oh, sorry. just found the other way :D |
| 06:15 | <[tm]> | jgraham: will get it set up but please remind me later if I forget |
| 06:17 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: I think I can probably set up a commit hook that will cause a push to github too every time somebody pushes to dvcs.w3.org |
| 07:32 | <MikeSmith> | zewt: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/video.html redirects to http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-video-element.html now |
| 08:03 | <GPHemsley> | What's the story with WebVTT? Is it being actively maintained? |
| 08:04 | <GPHemsley> | And how is the language content tagged? I don't seen any @lang equivalents. |
| 08:07 | <GPHemsley> | For example, I wonder how the video in this post might be subtitled/tagged: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/02/mozillas-boot-to-gecko-the-web-is-the-platform/ |
| 08:08 | <GPHemsley> | (The first video. It has interviews with many people in many different languages, and it is not graphically subtitled or translated.) |
| 11:07 | <annevk> | http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#utf-8-decoder |
| 11:07 | <annevk> | as a replacement for |
| 11:07 | <annevk> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.html#utf-8 |
| 12:06 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: Still, specifying something like http+aes is probably done better somewhere where server people are as well as (a small number of) client people are. |
| 13:14 | <Ms2ger> | http://www.w3.org/TR/css-style-attr/ "this specification will not exit CR before 14 November 2010." |
| 13:14 | <Ms2ger> | That seems to have turned out to be correct |
| 13:31 | <annevk> | haha |
| 13:33 | <annevk> | "I want to do the simplest thing possible" "How about adding this other redundant thing too?" "..." |
| 13:54 | <Ms2ger> | Is const in any ES spec already? |
| 14:20 | <Ms2ger> | "This test ensures WebGL implementations correctly implement compressedTexImage2D and compressedTexSubImage2D." |
| 14:20 | <Ms2ger> | That's the only mention of "compressedTexSubImage2D" in the file |
| 14:42 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: as far as getting automatic mirroring set up, hg-git is giving me nothing but grief right now |
| 14:42 | <MikeSmith> | so I'm giving up for now and will try again later |
| 14:43 | <MikeSmith> | # hg push git+ssh://git⊙gc:w3c/html-testsuite.git |
| 14:43 | <MikeSmith> | pushing to git+ssh://git⊙gc:w3c/html-testsuite.git |
| 14:43 | <MikeSmith> | importing Hg objects into Git |
| 14:43 | <MikeSmith> | creating and sending data |
| 14:43 | <MikeSmith> | error: index-pack died of signal 11 |
| 14:47 | <annevk> | I wish browsers would implement :any-link or some such already |
| 14:47 | <annevk> | typing :link:hover, :visited:hover is anoying |
| 14:47 | <zewt> | annevk: the :before for "note" is really annoying in Firefox, since you can't select the entire note, btw |
| 14:48 | <zewt> | (in encoding, at least) |
| 14:48 | <Ms2ger> | Well, you can't select the generated content |
| 14:48 | <zewt> | right; firefox bug but annoying to be triggering it |
| 14:49 | <annevk> | .note is a pretty universal thing though |
| 14:49 | <annevk> | so if you want that changed we'd have to change it across all specs |
| 14:49 | <zewt> | annevk: "Pre-processing is required ..." might be nice to mention webidl's domstring->unicode conversion there as an example (since it'll probably be the most common preprocessor) |
| 14:49 | <annevk> | the most common is form submission I think |
| 14:49 | <zewt> | havn't noticed it before; maybe I really havn't tried to copy a note before |
| 14:50 | <annevk> | wherey ou use entities |
| 14:50 | <zewt> | annevk: i mean the most common case where other specs need to do that |
| 14:50 | <annevk> | ah mkay |
| 14:50 | <zewt> | (not the most commonly-triggered by users) |
| 14:50 | <annevk> | hacking on an IRC logging service now |
| 14:50 | <annevk> | maybe email or file a bug? |
| 14:50 | <zewt> | hack a one-click bug filing thing into the IRC log :P |
| 14:53 | <zewt> | heh what's this weird muddy blob on https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/ |
| 14:53 | <zewt> | it literally made me change tabs because my eyes went "there's something smeared on the monitor" |
| 15:02 | <annevk> | zewt: we have a plan to allow people to plug web services into the bot |
| 15:02 | <annevk> | or to expose some kind of API for it you can talk to over HTTP |
| 15:47 | <annevk> | zewt: actually, where pre-processing is mentioned it's something that most specs won't use |
| 15:48 | <annevk> | well I guess it doesn't really matter, but the intent was mostly about encodings that cannot represent the code points |
| 15:48 | <zewt> | don't follow |
| 15:49 | <zewt> | if you have a DOMString and you want to convert to UTF-8, WebIDL defines how to get Unicode out of it (including dealing with unpaired surrogates), and I assume the output of that is the input to the UTF-8 encoder |
| 15:49 | <annevk> | e.g. form submission to iso-8859-1 would require escaping characters not in the windows-1252 range |
| 15:50 | <zewt> | (plus recombining valid surrogates, of course, which people will want to do anyway) |
| 15:50 | <annevk> | yeah, that's noteworthy too, just something distinct from what I initially meant |
| 15:52 | <zewt> | that aside, it might be good to have a definition like "convert a DOMString to UTF-8" that just combines the two |
| 15:53 | <zewt> | (assuming that's the behavior that APIs standardize on; not sure if hixie's made a decision there yet) |
| 15:55 | <annevk> | ah yeah |
| 15:55 | <annevk> | Web IDL has to do that then |
| 15:55 | <annevk> | not gonna make Encoding depend on much |
| 15:58 | <Ms2ger> | "convert a DOMString to a sequence of Unicode characters" is just a forgiving utf-16 decoder, no? |
| 15:58 | <zewt> | yep |
| 16:04 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: I ignored all the hg push git+ssh stuff |
| 16:04 | <jgraham> | And just used hg gexport |
| 16:04 | <jgraham> | and git push |
| 16:05 | <jgraham> | hg bookmark -fr default master |
| 16:05 | <jgraham> | hg gexport |
| 16:05 | <jgraham> | git push [repo name] |
| 16:05 | <[tm]> | jgraham: I know nothing about that but will try out later |
| 16:06 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: Did you just typo the word "typo" in a bug about a typo? |
| 16:06 | <[tm]> | hg-git is a fail man |
| 16:06 | <jgraham> | [tm]: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2011/02/10/git-conversion-of-mozilla-central.html is what I followed |
| 16:07 | <jgraham> | More or less |
| 16:07 | <[tm]> | jgraham: thanks |
| 16:08 | <[tm]> | and thanks doublec i assume |
| 16:08 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, obviously intentionnaly |
| 16:08 | <jgraham> | (see also the followup post on the workflow to commit patches; I guess this makes using pull requests a bit difficult |
| 16:08 | <jgraham> | ) |
| 16:09 | Ms2ger | grumbles about WebGL |
| 16:10 | <jgraham> | http://blog.mozilla.com/halfire/2012/03/02/dvcs-survey-summary/ is also mildly interesting in that it suggests that the Mozilla folks might have to work on a solution for this |
| 16:48 | <[tm]> | http://www.marriedtothesea.com/011210/record-wishes.gif |
| 17:39 | <Hixie> | "Our business wouldn't be viable at all without regional restrictions" o_O |
| 17:40 | <Ms2ger> | That sounds like DRM |
| 17:41 | <Ms2ger> | (Yet another reason to send public-html straight to /dev/null) |
| 17:44 | <wilhelm> | I've done some work recently for a Scandiavian music streaming company. They have separate deals with the record companies for each country they have customers in. And they launch to one country at the time. |
| 17:45 | <Ms2ger> | Are you even allowed to tell us that? ;) |
| 17:45 | <Ms2ger> | Hi sicking |
| 17:46 | <wilhelm> | Most of the above should be public knowledge. (c: |
| 17:46 | <wilhelm> | It's puzzling to see how the entire entertainment industry seems to work like that. |
| 17:48 | <Hixie> | from talking with Mark about this it sounds to me like NetFlix actually _wants_ the movie/tv industry to do licenses like this |
| 17:48 | <jgraham> | Well presumably it is mostly, but not entirely, a historical artifact |
| 17:49 | <jgraham> | But it might be a good thing for the industry because it means that you can vary the prices somewhat |
| 17:49 | <jgraham> | rather than having to have a uniform global price |
| 17:50 | <wilhelm> | There seems to be a ~20% difference between Swedish and Norwegian subscription fees in this particular case. |
| 17:54 | <zewt> | well, because markets will bear higher prices in different regions, so they want tech to help them do that |
| 17:55 | <zewt> | (i've been there, and while I "get" it, I sure as hell don't expect the open Web to assist it) |
| 17:56 | <zewt> | http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005HWAOOI http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00329NVYS US: $51 JP: $545 o_O |
| 17:57 | <zewt> | (to take the most extreme example I'm aware of) |
| 17:57 | <wilhelm> | Indeed. |
| 17:58 | <jgraham> | wilhelm: Well there also ahppens to be a ~20% difference between 1NOK and 1SEK, so that example isn't entirely helpful |
| 17:59 | <zewt> | (note--the extreme example is that entire genre; that particular example is not even slightly an isolated case) |
| 18:00 | <wilhelm> | jgraham: The Danish price is 50% lower, for some reason. (c: |
| 18:00 | <zewt> | it's sort of funny how Canadian prices still tend to be higher than USD prices, even though the CAD is above the USD now |
| 18:01 | <wilhelm> | I fully agree with Hixie's response to the proposal. But I am worried what those companies will do if the proposal is shot down. |
| 18:02 | <jgraham> | wilhelm: Well I don't know which scandinvian music service you are working for, but spotify at least seems to be 99 DNK|NOK|SEK or 9.99 GBP|USD |
| 18:03 | <jgraham> | Which is a huge variation in price (almost 100% between USD and NOK), but clearly set by marketing |
| 18:03 | <zewt> | gbp and usd aren't even close to 1:1, either |
| 18:04 | <jgraham> | Nope |
| 18:04 | <zewt> | that's enough of a difference to encourage people in britain to proxy through the US (or it would if it wasn't a fairly small amount of money to begin with) |
| 18:06 | <jgraham> | I guess that proxying isn't going to improve the quality of service, or likely work with mobile devices |
| 18:06 | <jgraham> | Although maybe the same people who will break the ToS by using a proxy have all rooted their phones |
| 18:06 | <zewt> | it encourages people to find a way |
| 18:07 | <jgraham> | Maybe |
| 18:07 | <zewt> | just as people in japan are (much more strongly) encouraged to re-import anime from the US, since it's ridiculously cheaper |
| 18:07 | <zewt> | (which is why DVD/BD region locks exist) |
| 18:08 | <jgraham> | I am not the best person to talk here since I don't even do the view-iPlayer-via-a-UK-proxy thing even though it is rather common (and I would happily pay the BBC substantial money every year to be allowed to do so, but apparently they only want my money if I also bought an iPad) |
| 18:09 | <zewt> | i don't think anyone in here is disagreeing about anything, anyway :) |
| 18:09 | <jgraham> | s/to do so/to watch their content/ |
| 18:10 | <jgraham> | Probably not, I just want to rant about the stupid "you can watch some iPlayer content from Sweden, but only on the iPad" policy |
| 18:14 | <zewt> | i expect every single "you can only watch this in *random weird configuration*" spawns from some publisher/distributor contract somewhere |
| 19:48 | <Philip`> | "I am worried what those companies will do if the proposal is shot down" - clearly the best approach to achieve the desired result is to pretend to be enthusiastic about the proposal, and then sabotage it by making it as complex and unwieldy as possible and slowing down the development as much as possible |
| 19:48 | <Philip`> | The first step is to ensure progress can only be made during fortnightly telecons |
| 19:50 | <zewt> | ... and really, what worse could they do than closing the web platform, which is implied by any kind of DRM, heh |
| 19:52 | <Ms2ger> | Philip`, pff, they're way better at accomplishing that than we would ever be |
| 19:53 | <yuhong> | Funny Picture: How to tell HTML(4) from HTML5: |
| 19:53 | <yuhong> | http://geekmontage.com/funny-picture-how-to-tell-html-from-html5/ |
| 19:53 | <yuhong> | Now, think about how would you tell HTML6 from HTML5. |
| 19:55 | <yuhong> | Not to mention what if the client thinks a browser support "HTML5" but don't support for example <BDI> even though the browser claims to support "HTML5". |
| 19:57 | <yuhong> | Not to mention what if the client thinks a browser support "HTML5" but don't support for example <BDI> even though it is part of "HTML5'. |
| 20:00 | <yuhong> | Eventually IE8 will become obsolete and all browsers will support "HTML5". |
| 21:53 | <kennyluck> | heh. When the TR/ spec is newer than the dev.w3.org one, which do you link to? |
| 21:53 | <Ms2ger> | dev |
| 21:53 | <kennyluck> | I am taking about the DeviceOrientation Event spec → http://www.w3.org/TR/orientation-event/ |
| 21:54 | <kennyluck> | I don't understand how could this happen. |
| 21:55 | <Ms2ger> | You make the last edit to dev on Friday |
| 21:55 | <Ms2ger> | Publication happens next Tuesday |
| 21:55 | <Ms2ger> | TR/ has the publication data |
| 21:55 | <Ms2ger> | date, even |
| 21:55 | <kennyluck> | ah, makes sense. |
| 21:57 | <kennyluck> | (though it doesn't quite explain why the TR orientation-event is 1 December 2011 and the dev is http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source-orientation.html) |
| 21:58 | <kennyluck> | 12 July 2011 |
| 21:58 | <Ms2ger> | Heh |
| 21:58 | <Ms2ger> | Incompetence? |
| 22:01 | <kennyluck> | I guess I can no longer trust the pub date on a TR document. Perhaps that wasn't put on by the editor... |
| 22:01 | <Ms2ger> | s/the pub date on// |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | kennyluck: sometimes the PR team forgets |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | kennyluck: also sometimes the webmaster is delayed and they go with the original date anyway, sometime the webmaster forgets but updates the date |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | kennyluck: there's not much consistency in publishing |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | kennyluck: apart from it taking a long time |
| 22:03 | <Ms2ger> | But it not being as bad as the IETF |
| 22:04 | <kennyluck> | annevk, I don't think the webmaster should change the the date. That seems wrong. But anyway. |
| 22:04 | <annevk> | or the Chair will do it |
| 22:05 | <annevk> | e.g. for http://www.w3.org/TR/XMLHttpRequest/ I think the date I put on was January 10 |
| 22:06 | <kennyluck> | 7 days huh? It's 5 months different for orientation-event → http://www.w3.org/TR/orientation-event/ |
| 22:08 | <annevk> | http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/geo/api/spec-source-orientation.html shows that's more a problem of the editor's not doing their job |
| 22:09 | <Ms2ger> | <a href="#ref-domevents" shape=rect> |
| 22:10 | <fr00d> | Hello |
| 22:11 | <fr00d> | I'd like to setup my own validator of validator.w3.org. I'd like to know if I really need libxml 2.7.7 like I thin it's mentioned in "check" perl script? |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | this is the right channel for questions about http://about.validator.nu/ |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | well, I guess MikeSmith might be able to help with validator.w3.org |
| 22:12 | <sicking> | Ms2ger: hey there, you pinged |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | but I think he's still asleep |
| 22:12 | <Ms2ger> | sicking, so about RangeException :) |
| 22:13 | <sicking> | Ms2ger: i already reviewed that patch |
| 22:13 | <Ms2ger> | And the new patch? |
| 22:13 | <sicking> | arg |
| 22:13 | <Ms2ger> | How dare these people, writing patches! |
| 22:15 | <sicking> | Ms2ger: well.. it's really annoying to spend time reviewing a cleanup patch and then have to redo it |
| 22:15 | <sicking> | Ms2ger: i have no idea what has changed since the last patch |
| 22:17 | <Ms2ger> | sicking, fixed tabs and split out the raises stuff, apparently |
| 22:18 | <Ms2ger> | No rereview necessary, indeed |
| 22:53 | <annevk> | http://blog.mozilla.com/theden/2012/02/24/making-android-awesome-with-the-awesome-screen/ doesn't actually explain the feature... |
| 22:54 | <annevk> | not knowing what "Awesome Screen" is that page doesn't actually make a compelling argument for it |
| 23:04 | <jgraham> | annevk: Sounds like it is just a "speed dial" that is prepopulated with your most visited sites |
| 23:05 | <jgraham> | it might not be ofc, but if not the page is even worse than you suggest |
