| 00:00 | <heycam> | but maybe looking at root element, or the canvas element, makes sense as a fallback... |
| 00:00 | <Hixie> | there's no "canvas element" unless one was passed in |
| 00:01 | <heycam> | ah right |
| 00:01 | <Hixie> | (otherwise i'd always use it, which is what hte old methods do) |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | ok now about half of the text layout algorithm is just working out the default direction to use. |
| 00:05 | <Hixie> | that's just silly. |
| 00:06 | <Hixie> | i wonder if i shouldn't instead use direction:auto... |
| 00:54 | <Hixie> | hm no you wouldn't want direction:auto |
| 00:54 | <Hixie> | cos then you wouldn't know where you text would end up |
| 00:54 | <StoneCypher> | in a pile |
| 00:55 | <StoneCypher> | on the floor |
| 01:19 | <kennyluck_> | Hixie, I think in general bidi people want an extra argument to override it's directionality and the default behavior should be the result of applying the first-strong algorithm to the string like how window.alert works. |
| 01:19 | <Hixie> | no, that makes no sense as a default behaviour |
| 01:20 | <StoneCypher> | why |
| 01:20 | <Hixie> | at least not combined with textAlign=start or end |
| 01:20 | <Hixie> | because you wouldn't be able to predict where the text would end up |
| 01:20 | <StoneCypher> | oh. see, i dont' know what textAlign does. |
| 01:20 | <StoneCypher> | which is sad because i'm in the middle of writing internationalization software. |
| 01:22 | <kennyluck_> | Hixie, in any case I am not a bidi expert and you might want to send a mail to public-i18n-bidi. Aharon would probably give you more useful information. |
| 01:22 | <Hixie> | i'm pretty sure what the spec says now is the right thing for it to say, modulo maybe adding a direction override at some point |
| 01:22 | <Hixie> | but that can wait |
| 02:51 | <MikeSmith> | interesting case of ruby |
| 02:52 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/culture/news/20120308-OYT1T01125.htm |
| 02:53 | <MikeSmith> | uses <rb> |
| 02:53 | <MikeSmith> | though it doesn't really need to |
| 02:54 | <MikeSmith> | anyway, I don't think anybody is ever going to be able to know how that's supposed to be pronounced |
| 02:54 | <MikeSmith> | without the ruby I mean |
| 02:54 | <MikeSmith> | even native speakers |
| 02:55 | <MikeSmith> | 鬼 means demon |
| 02:56 | <MikeSmith> | which is almost always pronounced "oni" as far as I know |
| 02:57 | <MikeSmith> | but he's using it as "keen" (キーン) |
| 03:05 | <MikeSmith> | oh, it's "ki" in some words I guess |
| 06:00 | <glob> | . |
| 06:00 | <glob> | . |
| 06:23 | <rahaman> | Hi all, I need some clarification on border attributes for a <td> element, this is the relevant email I sent to the mailing list http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-March/034993.html.. |
| 06:24 | <rahaman> | can some one please spend 5 mins to help me with this ? |
| 06:24 | <rahaman> | Hi all, I need some clarification on border attributes for a <td> element, this is the relevant email I sent to the mailing list http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-March/034993.html.. |
| 06:24 | <rahaman> | can some one please spend 5 mins to help me with this ? |
| 06:25 | <Hixie> | sounds like a bug in webkit |
| 06:25 | <Hixie> | the spec in question would be the CSS spec, though, not the HTML spec |
| 06:25 | <Hixie> | sounds like a bug in webkit |
| 06:25 | <Hixie> | the spec in question would be the CSS spec, though, not the HTML spec |
| 06:26 | <Hixie> | (also, so that my comments aren't completely useless to you :-), know that you can simplify your DOCTYPE to just <!DOCTYPE HTML>) |
| 06:26 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: surely the rendering section is relevant |
| 06:26 | <Hixie> | (also, so that my comments aren't completely useless to you :-), know that you can simplify your DOCTYPE to just <!DOCTYPE HTML>) |
| 06:27 | <Hixie> | not in this case, as far as i can tell |
| 06:27 | <zcorpan> | oh |
| 06:27 | <Hixie> | oh... wait... |
| 06:27 | <Hixie> | maybe it is... |
| 06:27 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: surely the rendering section is relevant |
| 06:27 | <Hixie> | not in this case, as far as i can tell |
| 06:27 | <zcorpan> | oh |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | the border-width is ending up zero in webkit |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | interesting |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | wonder what the rendering section says about that... |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | oh... wait... |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | maybe it is... |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | the border-width is ending up zero in webkit |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | interesting |
| 06:28 | <Hixie> | wonder what the rendering section says about that... |
| 06:29 | <rahaman> | hixie: yeah i have debugged the relevant code in WebKit.. |
| 06:30 | <Hixie> | this does seem like a webkit bug, but zcorpan is right, it's a default rendering rules bug |
| 06:30 | <rahaman> | if i dont mention border-width explicitly, the border-width is coming as zero for <td> because of some code we have written in webkit... |
| 06:30 | <rahaman> | n when I discussed about whay those part of the code is thr in #webkit, we could not find out the reason as this is old code.. |
| 06:30 | <rahaman> | hixie: yeah i have debugged the relevant code in WebKit.. |
| 06:30 | <Hixie> | this does seem like a webkit bug, but zcorpan is right, it's a default rendering rules bug |
| 06:30 | <rahaman> | if i dont mention border-width explicitly, the border-width is coming as zero for <td> because of some code we have written in webkit... |
| 06:31 | <rahaman> | n when I discussed about whay those part of the code is thr in #webkit, we could not find out the reason as this is old code.. |
| 06:32 | <rahaman> | so me & Kling decided to discuss this here to get a clear idea of the expected behavior in such cases... |
| 06:32 | <rahaman> | so me & Kling decided to discuss this here to get a clear idea of the expected behavior in such cases... |
| 06:33 | <rahaman> | hixie: I did not understand this "but zcorpan is right, it's a default rendering rules bug " :( can u pls elaborate a bit? |
| 06:33 | <zcorpan> | see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html#tables |
| 06:33 | <zcorpan> | that specifies the expected behavior |
| 06:33 | <zcorpan> | webkit does something different |
| 06:33 | <rahaman> | hixie: I did not understand this "but zcorpan is right, it's a default rendering rules bug " :( can u pls elaborate a bit? |
| 06:33 | <zcorpan> | see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html#tables |
| 06:33 | <zcorpan> | that specifies the expected behavior |
| 06:33 | <zcorpan> | webkit does something different |
| 06:34 | <zcorpan> | i'd recommend writing tests against that, see that it passes other browsers (it it doesn't, maybe the spec is still wrong), and then implement it :-) |
| 06:34 | <zcorpan> | and share the tests :-) |
| 06:34 | <zcorpan> | i'd recommend writing tests against that, see that it passes other browsers (it it doesn't, maybe the spec is still wrong), and then implement it :-) |
| 06:35 | <zcorpan> | (this can be checked with javascript so you could use http://w3c-test.org/resources/testharness.js ) |
| 06:35 | <zcorpan> | and share the tests :-) |
| 06:35 | <Hixie> | webkit seems to have some default rule for border-width even when there's no border attribute |
| 06:35 | <Hixie> | which contradicts the section zcorpan cited |
| 06:35 | <zcorpan> | (this can be checked with javascript so you could use http://w3c-test.org/resources/testharness.js ) |
| 06:36 | <Hixie> | (sorry, would have explained earlier but ran into a bug with the status annotation script!) |
| 06:36 | <Hixie> | webkit seems to have some default rule for border-width even when there's no border attribute |
| 06:36 | <rahaman> | ok sure thanks zcorpan & Hixie for your time... |
| 06:36 | <Hixie> | (in case anyone got 500s changing annotations recently, that should be fixed now...) |
| 06:36 | <zcorpan> | np |
| 06:36 | <Hixie> | which contradicts the section zcorpan cited |
| 06:36 | <Hixie> | (sorry, would have explained earlier but ran into a bug with the status annotation script!) |
| 06:36 | <rahaman> | ok sure thanks zcorpan & Hixie for your time... |
| 06:36 | <Hixie> | (in case anyone got 500s changing annotations recently, that should be fixed now...) |
| 06:37 | <zcorpan> | np |
| 07:06 | <zcorpan> | hah, making <source> void ended up in "positive effects" of http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/issue-179_no_change |
| 07:07 | <zcorpan> | hah, making <source> void ended up in "positive effects" of http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/issue-179_no_change |
| 07:21 | <hsivonen> | has Chrome removed UI for character encoding? |
| 07:22 | <hsivonen> | I don't find the UI in Chrome 19 dev on Linux |
| 07:22 | <hsivonen> | has Chrome removed UI for character encoding? |
| 07:22 | <hsivonen> | I don't find the UI in Chrome 19 dev on Linux |
| 07:24 | <hsivonen> | annevk: is Chrome supposed to support iso-2022-jp? |
| 07:24 | <hsivonen> | annevk: is Chrome supposed to support iso-2022-jp? |
| 07:25 | <hsivonen> | nevermind |
| 07:25 | <hsivonen> | nevermind |
| 07:26 | <hsivonen> | what should I read to learn key differences and similarities of iso-2022-jp and shift_jis? |
| 07:27 | <hsivonen> | on the level of how they handle incoming bytes |
| 07:27 | <hsivonen> | what should I read to learn key differences and similarities of iso-2022-jp and shift_jis? |
| 07:27 | <hsivonen> | on the level of how they handle incoming bytes |
| 07:28 | hsivonen | studies http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#legacy-multi-octet-japanese-encodings |
| 07:29 | <hsivonen> | is there a trick that's equivalent with multiplying by 188 that can be performed in the ALU? |
| 07:29 | hsivonen | studies http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#legacy-multi-octet-japanese-encodings |
| 07:30 | <hsivonen> | is there a trick that's equivalent with multiplying by 188 that can be performed in the ALU? |
| 07:48 | <annevk> | hsivonen: what do you mean with ALU? |
| 07:48 | <annevk> | hsivonen: what do you mean with ALU? |
| 07:51 | <hsivonen> | annevk: arithmetic-logic unit |
| 07:51 | <hsivonen> | annevk: arithmetic-logic unit |
| 07:52 | <hsivonen> | annevk: the part of the CPU that evaluates +, -, ==, <=, &, |, etc. but not *, / or % |
| 07:52 | <hsivonen> | annevk: the part of the CPU that evaluates +, -, ==, <=, &, |, etc. but not *, / or % |
| 07:53 | <annevk> | decoding on the CPU? sounds like fun |
| 07:53 | <hsivonen> | annevk: all the "multiplications" in UTF-8 are powers of two, so they can be implemented as shifts instead of multiplications |
| 07:53 | <annevk> | decoding on the CPU? sounds like fun |
| 07:54 | <hsivonen> | annevk: so you can do UTF-8 within the ALU without using multiplications |
| 07:54 | <hsivonen> | annevk: all the "multiplications" in UTF-8 are powers of two, so they can be implemented as shifts instead of multiplications |
| 07:54 | <hsivonen> | annevk: so you can do UTF-8 within the ALU without using multiplications |
| 08:03 | <annevk> | hsivonen: yeah I know, I wasn't sure whether I should use shifts in a specification |
| 08:03 | <annevk> | hsivonen: yeah I know, I wasn't sure whether I should use shifts in a specification |
| 08:05 | <hsivonen> | annevk: Using shifts makes it more obvious what the reasonable implementation would be |
| 08:05 | <hsivonen> | annevk: Using shifts makes it more obvious what the reasonable implementation would be |
| 08:06 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: see if there's an obvious pattern here http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1370 |
| 08:06 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: see if there's an obvious pattern here http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1370 |
| 08:07 | <zcorpan> | the last two bits are always 0 |
| 08:07 | <annevk> | hsivonen: that's certainly true |
| 08:07 | <zcorpan> | the last two bits are always 0 |
| 08:08 | <annevk> | hsivonen: that's certainly true |
| 08:25 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I guess I can change that later again |
| 08:25 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I guess I can change that later again |
| 08:41 | <annevk> | hmm FocusEvent?! |
| 08:42 | <annevk> | guess I have to properly review DOM 3 Events again at one point... |
| 08:42 | <annevk> | hmm FocusEvent?! |
| 08:42 | <annevk> | guess I have to properly review DOM 3 Events again at one point... |
| 08:44 | <annevk> | didn't know Iceweasel was still a thing |
| 08:44 | <annevk> | didn't know Iceweasel was still a thing |
| 08:46 | <hsivonen> | annevk: AFAIK, the copyright licensing of the Firefox icon has changed since the disagreement with Debian, but Mozilla still hasn't given Debian a trademark license |
| 08:46 | <hsivonen> | annevk: AFAIK, the copyright licensing of the Firefox icon has changed since the disagreement with Debian, but Mozilla still hasn't given Debian a trademark license |
| 08:47 | <hsivonen> | (I might be wrong about the part after "but" and I realize that Debian folks will recognize the way I formulated the after-"but" part as being part of the problem) |
| 08:47 | <hsivonen> | (I might be wrong about the part after "but" and I realize that Debian folks will recognize the way I formulated the after-"but" part as being part of the problem) |
| 08:48 | <hsivonen> | annevk: Mark Pilgrim always remembered to point this out before he went 410 |
| 08:48 | <hsivonen> | annevk: Mark Pilgrim always remembered to point this out before he went 410 |
| 09:00 | <charlvn> | i wasn't aware that anything changed with the debian ice* situation, afaik that is still all that debian ships with |
| 09:00 | <charlvn> | i wasn't aware that anything changed with the debian ice* situation, afaik that is still all that debian ships with |
| 09:02 | <annevk> | hsivonen: yes, made me think of him too again when I saw it |
| 09:02 | <annevk> | hsivonen: colleague of mine apparently uses that version of Gecko |
| 09:02 | <annevk> | hsivonen: yes, made me think of him too again when I saw it |
| 09:02 | <annevk> | hsivonen: colleague of mine apparently uses that version of Gecko |
| 09:07 | <hsivonen> | annevk: it's worth noting that Iceweasel in Debian Stable has an ancient Gecko |
| 09:07 | <hsivonen> | annevk: it's worth noting that Iceweasel in Debian Stable has an ancient Gecko |
| 09:08 | <hsivonen> | charlvn: from the POV of what Debian ships, nothing has changed |
| 09:08 | <hsivonen> | charlvn: but the icon *copyright* licensing objection is now moot |
| 09:08 | <hsivonen> | charlvn: from the POV of what Debian ships, nothing has changed |
| 09:09 | <hsivonen> | charlvn: of course, the copyright licensing of the icon doesn't matter unless you are trademark licensed, too |
| 09:09 | <hsivonen> | charlvn: but the icon *copyright* licensing objection is now moot |
| 09:09 | <hsivonen> | charlvn: of course, the copyright licensing of the icon doesn't matter unless you are trademark licensed, too |
| 09:34 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I updated to validator datatype code today to support having a space in place of the T for the time microsyntax. |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | I made some other changes that I now realize you might not have wanted made, so I'd like to ask you about those |
| 09:35 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: what other changes? |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: you pinged me the other day |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I updated to validator datatype code today to support having a space in place of the T for the time microsyntax. |
| 09:36 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I changed the milliseconds checking so that it requires 1, 2, or 3 digits instead of just one or more |
| 09:36 | <MikeSmith> | I made some other changes that I now realize you might not have wanted made, so I'd like to ask you about those |
| 09:36 | <MikeSmith> | but then I remembered you might have outstanding feedback on that |
| 09:36 | <MikeSmith> | waiting to hear back from Hixie |
| 09:36 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: what other changes? |
| 09:36 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: you pinged me the other day |
| 09:36 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I changed the milliseconds checking so that it requires 1, 2, or 3 digits instead of just one or more |
| 09:37 | <MikeSmith> | if that's the case I'll back the code out |
| 09:37 | <MikeSmith> | but then I remembered you might have outstanding feedback on that |
| 09:37 | <MikeSmith> | waiting to hear back from Hixie |
| 09:37 | <MikeSmith> | if that's the case I'll back the code out |
| 09:38 | <Ms2ger> | MikeSmith, http://validator.w3.org/checklink?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsimon.html5.org%2Fdump%2Frefs.html&hide_type=all&recursive=on&depth=&check=Check claims that http://dvcs.w3 urls redirect to https://dvcs.w3 ones, but that doesn't seem to happen in my browser |
| 09:38 | <Ms2ger> | Do you happen to know anything about that? :) |
| 09:38 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: i first read "validator doctype code ..." |
| 09:38 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: if your code matches the current spec on milliseconds, it's ok |
| 09:38 | <Ms2ger> | MikeSmith, http://validator.w3.org/checklink?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsimon.html5.org%2Fdump%2Frefs.html&hide_type=all&recursive=on&depth=&check=Check claims that http://dvcs.w3 urls redirect to https://dvcs.w3 ones, but that doesn't seem to happen in my browser |
| 09:39 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK |
| 09:39 | <Ms2ger> | Do you happen to know anything about that? :) |
| 09:39 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: i first read "validator doctype code ..." |
| 09:39 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: if your code matches the current spec on milliseconds, it's ok |
| 09:39 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK |
| 09:40 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: so one other change I made had the effect of not reporting 1996-01-01T12:05Z as an error |
| 09:40 | <MikeSmith> | that is, second-less times in global-date-and-time strings |
| 09:40 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: so one other change I made had the effect of not reporting 1996-01-01T12:05Z as an error |
| 09:40 | <MikeSmith> | that is, second-less times in global-date-and-time strings |
| 09:41 | <MikeSmith> | but that one I now remember that you were still waiting on feedback from Hixie on |
| 09:41 | <MikeSmith> | iirc |
| 09:41 | <MikeSmith> | but that one I now remember that you were still waiting on feedback from Hixie on |
| 09:41 | <MikeSmith> | iirc |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: does not happen in my browser either |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | so I have no idea why checklink is reporting that it does |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: does not happen in my browser either |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | so I have no idea why checklink is reporting that it does |
| 09:43 | <MikeSmith> | it would be nice if it actually did, because if you try to push to http://dvcs.w3/.org it will fail |
| 09:43 | <MikeSmith> | it would be nice if it actually did, because if you try to push to http://dvcs.w3/.org it will fail |
| 09:55 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16203#c2 |
| 09:55 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 09:55 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16203#c2 |
| 09:55 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 09:56 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: btw, I noticed you did a pusj to the testsuite on dvcs.w3.org but it didn't get pushed to github. Did you get any error message when you pushed? |
| 09:56 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: under WebAppSec product, right? |
| 09:56 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: btw, I noticed you did a pusj to the testsuite on dvcs.w3.org but it didn't get pushed to github. Did you get any error message when you pushed? |
| 09:57 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: yeah, just name it CSP I guess |
| 09:57 | <MikeSmith> | hai |
| 09:57 | <Ms2ger> | MikeSmith, I told you about it, no? :) |
| 09:57 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 09:57 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: under WebAppSec product, right? |
| 09:57 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 09:57 | <MikeSmith> | so I fixed it after that |
| 09:57 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: yeah, just name it CSP I guess |
| 09:57 | <MikeSmith> | hai |
| 09:57 | <Ms2ger> | MikeSmith, I told you about it, no? :) |
| 09:58 | <MikeSmith> | sorry .. |
| 09:58 | <annevk> | so HTML / WebApps was 1-4 correct? |
| 09:58 | <Ms2ger> | :) |
| 09:58 | <annevk> | of May that is |
| 09:58 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 09:58 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 09:58 | <MikeSmith> | so I fixed it after that |
| 09:58 | <MikeSmith> | sorry .. |
| 09:58 | <annevk> | so HTML / WebApps was 1-4 correct? |
| 09:58 | <Ms2ger> | :) |
| 09:59 | <annevk> | splendid, looks like I'll miss Queen's Day again |
| 09:59 | <annevk> | of May that is |
| 09:59 | <annevk> | splendid, looks like I'll miss Queen's Day again |
| 10:00 | <jgraham> | You have a whole holiday dedictaed to singing Bohemian Rhapsody? |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | what lame shit is this |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | Jiro Dreams of Sushi is not out in NL until May 31 |
| 10:01 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: added |
| 10:01 | <jgraham> | You have a whole holiday dedictaed to singing Bohemian Rhapsody? |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | what lame shit is this |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | Jiro Dreams of Sushi is not out in NL until May 31 |
| 10:01 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: added |
| 10:09 | <foolip> | Hixie, thanks |
| 10:10 | <foolip> | Hixie, thanks |
| 10:16 | <annevk> | what is the simplest way to test encoders? |
| 10:16 | <annevk> | what is the simplest way to test encoders? |
| 10:17 | <annevk> | using URL query strings might be an easy way... |
| 10:17 | <annevk> | using URL query strings might be an easy way... |
| 10:18 | <jgraham> | Yeah, that's a technique I used for shipping raw bytes around |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | ?{code points} -> ?{octets} |
| 10:18 | <jgraham> | Yeah, that's a technique I used for shipping raw bytes around |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | ?{code points} -> ?{octets} |
| 10:19 | <jgraham> | Either that or encode all the input data as specially constructed PNGs that you can read off a canvas |
| 10:19 | <jgraham> | (not a serious suggestion) |
| 10:19 | <annevk> | not sure how that helps with seeing how the euro character gets encoded in octets using the gbk encoding |
| 10:19 | <jgraham> | Either that or encode all the input data as specially constructed PNGs that you can read off a canvas |
| 10:19 | <jgraham> | (not a serious suggestion) |
| 10:20 | <annevk> | not sure how that helps with seeing how the euro character gets encoded in octets using the gbk encoding |
| 10:22 | <jgraham> | Ah, I was thinking about a different part of the problem. But sure, query strings. Form submission. There aren't that many places where encoder behaviour is exposed, right? |
| 10:22 | <jgraham> | Ah, I was thinking about a different part of the problem. But sure, query strings. Form submission. There aren't that many places where encoder behaviour is exposed, right? |
| 10:23 | <annevk> | forms require submission, or is there some way to get the data from script? |
| 10:23 | <annevk> | there's not that many places and the less the better, but for testing... |
| 10:23 | <annevk> | forms require submission, or is there some way to get the data from script? |
| 10:23 | <annevk> | there's not that many places and the less the better, but for testing... |
| 10:24 | <jgraham> | Well requiring submission isn't obviously a problem |
| 10:24 | <jgraham> | Well requiring submission isn't obviously a problem |
| 10:32 | <annevk> | whoa |
| 10:32 | <annevk> | in Gecko the character is stripped, in Opera it's encoded as two octets, and in Chrome/Safari it's one |
| 10:32 | <annevk> | whoa |
| 10:33 | <annevk> | and IE just gives the code point back...?! |
| 10:33 | <annevk> | not sure what that means |
| 10:33 | <annevk> | in Gecko the character is stripped, in Opera it's encoded as two octets, and in Chrome/Safari it's one |
| 10:33 | <annevk> | and IE just gives the code point back...?! |
| 10:34 | <annevk> | not sure what that means |
| 10:35 | <zcorpan> | it means content doesn't rely on either behavior and you can choose what's least insane |
| 10:35 | <zcorpan> | it means content doesn't rely on either behavior and you can choose what's least insane |
| 10:42 | <jgraham> | Alternative theory: it means that some content relies on each behaviour and you are screwed whatever you do |
| 10:42 | <jgraham> | Alternative theory: it means that some content relies on each behaviour and you are screwed whatever you do |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | I also like that it's different between gbk and gb18030 |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | well except in Opera, which uses what I think is the gb18030 mapping for gbk |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | I also like that it's different between gbk and gb18030 |
| 10:44 | <annevk> | well except in Opera, which uses what I think is the gb18030 mapping for gbk |
| 11:05 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: Was your summary of the DRM threads for some other forum than public-html itself? |
| 11:06 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: didn't finish it |
| 11:06 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: Was your summary of the DRM threads for some other forum than public-html itself? |
| 11:06 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: didn't finish it |
| 11:08 | <MikeSmith> | also I'm not caught up on the thread so there's probably been more requirements popping up in the mean time |
| 11:08 | <MikeSmith> | also I'm not caught up on the thread so there's probably been more requirements popping up in the mean time |
| 11:09 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: btw you saw my other question? about second-less times? |
| 11:09 | <MikeSmith> | http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120309#l-336 |
| 11:09 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: btw you saw my other question? about second-less times? |
| 11:09 | <MikeSmith> | http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120309#l-336 |
| 11:10 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: can you share your unfinished summary? |
| 11:11 | <MikeSmith> | I guess I could |
| 11:11 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: can you share your unfinished summary? |
| 11:11 | <MikeSmith> | I guess I could |
| 11:13 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: the spec makes seconds optional, right? |
| 11:14 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: and your code made them optional, too? |
| 11:14 | <hsivonen> | seems alright if so |
| 11:14 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: the spec makes seconds optional, right? |
| 11:14 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: and your code made them optional, too? |
| 11:14 | <hsivonen> | seems alright if so |
| 11:15 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK |
| 11:15 | <zcorpan> | what happened to the pdf version of the spec? |
| 11:15 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK |
| 11:15 | <zcorpan> | what happened to the pdf version of the spec? |
| 11:16 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I asked because I had thought you had asked a long time back for Hixie to make them required and were waiting on a response |
| 11:16 | <MikeSmith> | I had note in the microsyntaxes description about it |
| 11:16 | <MikeSmith> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MicrosyntaxDescriptions#date-or-time |
| 11:16 | <MikeSmith> | "Note: The validator currently allows some values that the HTML specification prohibits; for example, it allows 1996-01-01T12:05:25 (a date and time with no time-zone information) and 12:05:25Z (a time with no date but with time-zone information)" |
| 11:16 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I asked because I had thought you had asked a long time back for Hixie to make them required and were waiting on a response |
| 11:16 | <MikeSmith> | I had note in the microsyntaxes description about it |
| 11:16 | <MikeSmith> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MicrosyntaxDescriptions#date-or-time |
| 11:17 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: seems unlikely that I would have had asked for seconds to be mandatory |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | dunno why I would have noted it then instead of just changing the code to match the spec |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | hmm |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | sorry, I misread my own note! |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | "Note: The validator currently allows some values that the HTML specification prohibits; for example, it allows 1996-01-01T12:05:25 (a date and time with no time-zone information) and 12:05:25Z (a time with no date but with time-zone information)" |
| 11:17 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: seems unlikely that I would have had asked for seconds to be mandatory |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | dunno why I would have noted it then instead of just changing the code to match the spec |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK |
| 11:18 | <MikeSmith> | sigh |
| 11:18 | <hsivonen> | :-) |
| 11:18 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 11:18 | <MikeSmith> | hmm |
| 11:18 | <MikeSmith> | sorry, I misread my own note! |
| 11:18 | <MikeSmith> | sigh |
| 11:18 | <hsivonen> | :-) |
| 11:24 | <zcorpan> | "Font Awesome icons work great in buttons. |
| 11:24 | <zcorpan> | <a class="btn" href="#"> |
| 11:24 | <zcorpan> | <i class="icon-refresh"></i> Refresh</a>" http://fortawesome.github.com/Font-Awesome/ |
| 11:24 | <zcorpan> | "Font Awesome icons work great in buttons. |
| 11:24 | <zcorpan> | <a class="btn" href="#"> |
| 11:24 | <zcorpan> | <i class="icon-refresh"></i> Refresh</a>" http://fortawesome.github.com/Font-Awesome/ |
| 11:26 | <hsivonen> | is "fo*r*t" vs. "fo*n*t" some kind of kerning-related joke? |
| 11:26 | <hsivonen> | is "fo*r*t" vs. "fo*n*t" some kind of kerning-related joke? |
| 11:27 | <zcorpan> | hah, didn't even see that |
| 11:27 | <zcorpan> | hah, didn't even see that |
| 11:30 | <hsivonen> | I'm too lazy to download the package. Does the font use the PUA for stuff that's not in Unicode? what about for stuff that is in Unicode? |
| 11:30 | <hsivonen> | I'm too lazy to download the package. Does the font use the PUA for stuff that's not in Unicode? what about for stuff that is in Unicode? |
| 11:35 | <annevk> | it uses code points such as 0xF083 |
| 11:35 | <hsivonen> | does anyone want to guess when ICON FACEBOOK SIGN is going to appear in Emoji? |
| 11:35 | <annevk> | it uses code points such as 0xF083 |
| 11:35 | <hsivonen> | does anyone want to guess when ICON FACEBOOK SIGN is going to appear in Emoji? |
| 11:36 | <annevk> | which is PUA |
| 11:36 | <annevk> | which is PUA |
| 11:38 | <jgraham> | Do we already have ICON APPLE WITH SINGLE LEAF AND BITE REMOVED? |
| 11:38 | <jgraham> | Do we already have ICON APPLE WITH SINGLE LEAF AND BITE REMOVED? |
| 11:40 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I think it uses PUA for everything |
| 11:40 | <annevk> | which is not very awesome if you ask me |
| 11:40 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I think it uses PUA for everything |
| 11:41 | <annevk> | which is not very awesome if you ask me |
| 11:53 | <zcorpan> | annevk: wow i expected it to just use the ascii range or something |
| 11:53 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: there's a de facto PUA code point for that :-P |
| 11:53 | <zcorpan> | annevk: wow i expected it to just use the ascii range or something |
| 11:54 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: I am somewhat ashamed to admit I know :) |
| 11:54 | <matjas> | |
| 11:54 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: there's a de facto PUA code point for that :-P |
| 11:54 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: I am somewhat ashamed to admit I know :) |
| 11:55 | <matjas> | |
| 11:56 | <matjas> | woah, i didn’t know U+F8FF can also represent the Windows logo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Use_(Unicode)#Example_code_point_U.2BF8FF |
| 11:56 | <matjas> | woah, i didn’t know U+F8FF can also represent the Windows logo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Use_(Unicode)#Example_code_point_U.2BF8FF |
| 11:57 | <matjas> | also, “The ConScript Unicode Registry suggests it be used for the Klingon glyph "KLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH." This is followed by e.g. Code2000.” |
| 11:57 | <matjas> | also, “The ConScript Unicode Registry suggests it be used for the Klingon glyph "KLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH." This is followed by e.g. Code2000.” |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | I wonder what the glyph that Ubuntu's Gnome Terminal uses for that code point represents |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | it's like a short minus sign with an acute accent and a mirrored other tilted line below |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | I wonder what the glyph that Ubuntu's Gnome Terminal uses for that code point represents |
| 12:11 | <hsivonen> | it's like a short minus sign with an acute accent and a mirrored other tilted line below |
| 12:12 | hsivonen | can imagine an epic debate about whether Ubuntu should ship Tengwar or Klingon support in that range |
| 12:12 | hsivonen | can imagine an epic debate about whether Ubuntu should ship Tengwar or Klingon support in that range |
| 12:14 | <zcorpan> | woah, i didn't know margins of the root element don't collapse |
| 12:14 | <zcorpan> | woah, i didn't know margins of the root element don't collapse |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | via Marcos: http://omfgdogs.com/ |
| 12:30 | <annevk> | via Marcos: http://omfgdogs.com/ |
| 12:46 | zcorpan | also learns http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1374 |
| 12:46 | zcorpan | also learns http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1374 |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | seems every browser but Gecko agrees |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | on the same height |
| 12:48 | <Ms2ger> | Then everyone is wrong, obviously :) |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | seems every browser but Gecko agrees |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | on the same height |
| 12:49 | <Ms2ger> | Then everyone is wrong, obviously :) |
| 13:04 | <zcorpan> | hmm. http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1375 isn't covered properly |
| 13:04 | <zcorpan> | hmm. http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1375 isn't covered properly |
| 13:08 | <Ms2ger> | Need body too? |
| 13:09 | <zcorpan> | no; the quirks spec would currently render it as http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1376 |
| 13:09 | <Ms2ger> | Need body too? |
| 13:10 | <zcorpan> | so i need to substract the margin/padding/border of the body when the root element is the containing block |
| 13:10 | <zcorpan> | another day |
| 13:10 | <zcorpan> | no; the quirks spec would currently render it as http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1376 |
| 13:10 | <zcorpan> | so i need to substract the margin/padding/border of the body when the root element is the containing block |
| 13:10 | <zcorpan> | another day |
| 13:35 | <StoneCypher> | uh |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | someone just told me html5 discarded all control over what tags may go inside what others |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | so <h1> would now be legal inside <span> and so on |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | i went to find the html5 doctype as a counter, but apparently there isn't one |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | is he correct? |
| 13:36 | <Ms2ger> | That's nonsense |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | okay so |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | where do i find a standard to defend that |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | because he's the ban-happiest troll op in history |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | uh |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | someone just told me html5 discarded all control over what tags may go inside what others |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | so <h1> would now be legal inside <span> and so on |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | i went to find the html5 doctype as a counter, but apparently there isn't one |
| 13:36 | <StoneCypher> | is he correct? |
| 13:36 | <Ms2ger> | That's nonsense |
| 13:37 | <Ms2ger> | See http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#element-definitions |
| 13:37 | <annevk> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Mar/att-0007/AB_List_of_Concerns-20120306.htm |
| 13:37 | <StoneCypher> | okay so |
| 13:37 | <annevk> | might be worthy of a review |
| 13:37 | <hsivonen> | StoneCypher: maybe it's not worth debating with ban-happy trolls |
| 13:37 | <StoneCypher> | unfortunately he also bans if you disengage |
| 13:37 | <annevk> | (the contents, not the Word-generated source code) |
| 13:37 | <StoneCypher> | and since freenode doesn't give a damn about abuse, there's sort of no option |
| 13:37 | <Ms2ger> | Concerns about? |
| 13:37 | <StoneCypher> | where do i find a standard to defend that |
| 13:37 | <StoneCypher> | because he's the ban-happiest troll op in history |
| 13:37 | <Ms2ger> | See http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#element-definitions |
| 13:37 | <annevk> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Mar/att-0007/AB_List_of_Concerns-20120306.htm |
| 13:37 | <annevk> | might be worthy of a review |
| 13:37 | <hsivonen> | StoneCypher: maybe it's not worth debating with ban-happy trolls |
| 13:37 | <StoneCypher> | unfortunately he also bans if you disengage |
| 13:37 | <annevk> | (the contents, not the Word-generated source code) |
| 13:38 | <StoneCypher> | Ms2ger: is <h1> now valid inside <span> |
| 13:38 | <Ms2ger> | No |
| 13:38 | <annevk> | it's not? |
| 13:38 | <annevk> | oh maybe just inside <a> |
| 13:38 | <Ms2ger> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-span-element |
| 13:38 | <StoneCypher> | and since freenode doesn't give a damn about abuse, there's sort of no option |
| 13:38 | <Ms2ger> | Content model: |
| 13:38 | <Ms2ger> | Phrasing content. |
| 13:38 | <Ms2ger> | Concerns about? |
| 13:38 | <StoneCypher> | Ms2ger: is <h1> now valid inside <span> |
| 13:38 | <Ms2ger> | No |
| 13:38 | <annevk> | it's not? |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | Phrasing content is the text of the document, as well as elements that mark up that text at the intra-paragraph level. Runs of phrasing content form paragraphs. |
| 13:39 | <annevk> | oh maybe just inside <a> |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | a (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | abbr |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | area (if it is a descendant of a map element) |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | audio |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | b |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | bdi |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | bdo |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-span-element |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | br |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | button |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | canvas |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | cite |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | code |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | command |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | data |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | Content model: |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | datalist |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | Phrasing content. |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | del (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | dfn |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | em |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | embed |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | i |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | iframe |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | img |
| 13:39 | <annevk> | dude |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | input |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | ins (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | kbd |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | keygen |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | Phrasing content is the text of the document, as well as elements that mark up that text at the intra-paragraph level. Runs of phrasing content form paragraphs. |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | a (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | abbr |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | area (if it is a descendant of a map element) |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | audio |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | b |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | bdi |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | bdo |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | br |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | button |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | canvas |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | cite |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | code |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | command |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | data |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | datalist |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | del (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | dfn |
| 13:39 | <Ms2ger> | em |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | label |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | link (if the itemprop attribute is present) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | embed |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | map (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | mark |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | i |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | math |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | meta (if the itemprop attribute is present) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | iframe |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | meter |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | noscript |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | img |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | object |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | output |
| 13:40 | <annevk> | dude |
| 13:40 | <tomasf> | haha |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | progress |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | input |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | q |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | ruby |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | ins (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | s |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | samp |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | kbd |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | script |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | select |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | keygen |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | small |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | span |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | label |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | strong |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | sub |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | link (if the itemprop attribute is present) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | sup |
| 13:40 | <beverloo> | :-) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | map (if it contains only phrasing content) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | svg |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | textarea |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | mark |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | time |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | math |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | meta (if the itemprop attribute is present) |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | meter |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | noscript |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | object |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | output |
| 13:40 | <tomasf> | haha |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | progress |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | q |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | ruby |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | s |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | samp |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | script |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | select |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | small |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | u |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | var |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | span |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | video |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | wbr |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | strong |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | Text |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | Woops |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | sub |
| 13:41 | Ms2ger | blames Hixie |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | That totally doesn't look like it will be newline-separated when you paste it |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | sup |
| 13:41 | <beverloo> | :-) |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | svg |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | textarea |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | time |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | u |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | var |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | video |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | wbr |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | Text |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | Woops |
| 13:41 | Ms2ger | blames Hixie |
| 13:41 | <Ms2ger> | That totally doesn't look like it will be newline-separated when you paste it |
| 13:42 | <StoneCypher> | Ms2ger: thank you for the assist |
| 13:42 | <jgraham> | Oh, just admit that you are trying to catch up with Hixie in the stats |
| 13:42 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, ssh |
| 13:42 | <annevk> | has to catch up with you first |
| 13:42 | <annevk> | I think Hixie is writing more than me |
| 13:42 | <StoneCypher> | Ms2ger: thank you for the assist |
| 13:42 | <jgraham> | Oh, just admit that you are trying to catch up with Hixie in the stats |
| 13:42 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, ssh |
| 13:42 | <annevk> | has to catch up with you first |
| 13:43 | Ms2ger | goes for zewt first |
| 13:43 | <annevk> | I think Hixie is writing more than me |
| 13:44 | <Ms2ger> | "Hixie's faithful follower, AryehGregor, ..." |
| 13:44 | Ms2ger | goes for zewt first |
| 13:45 | <annevk> | are you going to copy & paste a bunch of nonsense again? might have to get paul_irish for a ban :p |
| 13:45 | <Ms2ger> | "Hixie's faithful follower, AryehGregor, ..." |
| 13:46 | <Ms2ger> | Who needs paul_irish for that? :) |
| 13:46 | <annevk> | mwaha |
| 13:46 | <annevk> | are you going to copy & paste a bunch of nonsense again? might have to get paul_irish for a ban :p |
| 13:46 | <annevk> | fear |
| 13:46 | <Ms2ger> | Who needs paul_irish for that? :) |
| 13:46 | <annevk> | mwaha |
| 13:46 | <annevk> | fear |
| 13:47 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: x = x + x + {...188 times} |
| 13:47 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: x = x + x + {...188 times} |
| 13:48 | <Ms2ger> | Make that {...47 times} and add << 2? |
| 13:49 | <Philip`> | Or I suppose 256*x - 64*x - 4*x |
| 13:49 | <Ms2ger> | Make that {...47 times} and add << 2? |
| 13:49 | <Philip`> | Or I suppose 256*x - 64*x - 4*x |
| 13:51 | <Philip`> | but an integer multiply in Core i7 apparently has latency of about 3 cycles (and can do one per cycle), so x*188 is probably faster than any longer expression |
| 13:51 | <Philip`> | but an integer multiply in Core i7 apparently has latency of about 3 cycles (and can do one per cycle), so x*188 is probably faster than any longer expression |
| 13:55 | <Dashiva> | Better write a test to find out |
| 13:56 | <Dashiva> | Better write a test to find out |
| 14:02 | <hsivonen> | the standard box model is the first item on http://www.impressivewebs.com/css-the-bad-parts/ ... |
| 14:02 | StoneCypher | doesn't actually think the box model is a bad thing |
| 14:02 | <hsivonen> | the standard box model is the first item on http://www.impressivewebs.com/css-the-bad-parts/ ... |
| 14:03 | StoneCypher | thinks most of people's horror towards the box model is vestigal memory of broken browsers |
| 14:03 | StoneCypher | doesn't actually think the box model is a bad thing |
| 14:03 | StoneCypher | thinks most of people's horror towards the box model is vestigal memory of broken browsers |
| 14:05 | <woef> | I think it's because people over-use width declarations in their css. |
| 14:05 | <woef> | I think it's because people over-use width declarations in their css. |
| 14:06 | <Philip`> | (Looks like GCC actually generates effectively "((x + x << 1) << 4 - x) << 2" on i586, and an imul instruction on i686+) |
| 14:06 | <Philip`> | (Looks like GCC actually generates effectively "((x + x << 1) << 4 - x) << 2" on i586, and an imul instruction on i686+) |
| 14:47 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: Cool |
| 14:47 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: Cool |
| 14:54 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: don't see zcorpan around but we're publishing next Thursday so need the date on the diffs doc switched to the 15th |
| 14:55 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: don't see zcorpan around but we're publishing next Thursday so need the date on the diffs doc switched to the 15th |
| 14:59 | <annevk> | can do |
| 15:00 | <annevk> | can do |
| 15:01 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: done |
| 15:01 | <MikeSmith> | tak |
| 15:01 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: done |
| 15:01 | <MikeSmith> | tak |
| 15:06 | <hsivonen> | sucks for roc's vacation for all this DRM and video "context" stuff to come up right now. :-( |
| 15:06 | <roc> | hmm? |
| 15:06 | <roc> | what video "context" stuff? |
| 15:06 | <hsivonen> | sucks for roc's vacation for all this DRM and video "context" stuff to come up right now. :-( |
| 15:06 | <roc> | hmm? |
| 15:06 | <roc> | what video "context" stuff? |
| 15:07 | <hsivonen> | roc: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Mar/0315.html |
| 15:07 | <hsivonen> | roc: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Mar/0315.html |
| 15:08 | <roc> | sigh |
| 15:08 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Well now you told him about it, it sucks |
| 15:08 | <jgraham> | :) |
| 15:08 | <hsivonen> | roc: sorry, from your posts to public-html, it looked like you were reading it already |
| 15:08 | <roc> | sigh |
| 15:08 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Well now you told him about it, it sucks |
| 15:09 | <roc> | I'm working today actually |
| 15:09 | <jgraham> | Europe turned out to be more boring than you expected? |
| 15:09 | <jgraham> | :) |
| 15:09 | <hsivonen> | roc: sorry, from your posts to public-html, it looked like you were reading it already |
| 15:09 | <roc> | I'm working today actually |
| 15:10 | <roc> | yeah, I need a holiday from my holiday |
| 15:10 | <roc> | actually I just wanted to check out the Paris office. |
| 15:10 | <volkmar> | roc: our best office ;) |
| 15:10 | <roc> | you wish :-) |
| 15:10 | <jgraham> | Europe turned out to be more boring than you expected? |
| 15:10 | <roc> | yeah, I need a holiday from my holiday |
| 15:10 | <roc> | actually I just wanted to check out the Paris office. |
| 15:10 | <volkmar> | roc: our best office ;) |
| 15:11 | <Ms2ger> | You've got glazou nearby ;) |
| 15:11 | <roc> | you wish :-) |
| 15:11 | <Ms2ger> | You've got glazou nearby ;) |
| 15:13 | <roc> | yeah, he came in and we had a good chat |
| 15:13 | <roc> | you should come in too so we can talk |
| 15:13 | <Ms2ger> | No thanks, bz has got me lot of review comments I need to fix |
| 15:13 | <roc> | yeah, he came in and we had a good chat |
| 15:13 | <roc> | you should come in too so we can talk |
| 15:14 | <roc> | foiled again! |
| 15:14 | <jgraham> | Surely meeting Ms2ger isn't actually possible? |
| 15:14 | <volkmar> | feels like it |
| 15:14 | <volkmar> | I tried a few times |
| 15:14 | <Ms2ger> | No thanks, bz has got me lot of review comments I need to fix |
| 15:14 | <roc> | foiled again! |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | Dude is either an AI or lives under a volcano. In belgium. |
| 15:15 | <StoneCypher> | the two are not mutually exclusive |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | Surely meeting Ms2ger isn't actually possible? |
| 15:15 | <StoneCypher> | an ai like that might want to be near geothermal power |
| 15:15 | <volkmar> | feels like it |
| 15:15 | <volkmar> | I tried a few times |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | Dude is either an AI or lives under a volcano. In belgium. |
| 15:15 | <StoneCypher> | the two are not mutually exclusive |
| 15:15 | <StoneCypher> | an ai like that might want to be near geothermal power |
| 15:16 | <roc> | jgraham: yeah, so far. But I live in hope. |
| 15:16 | <Ms2ger> | I hear NZ has nice volcanoes... |
| 15:16 | <roc> | jgraham: yeah, so far. But I live in hope. |
| 15:17 | <Ms2ger> | I hear NZ has nice volcanoes... |
| 15:18 | <roc> | yeah |
| 15:18 | <roc> | that's why I live there. |
| 15:18 | <Ms2ger> | As good a reason as any |
| 15:18 | <roc> | it's been weeks since I've seen a volcano, and it's starting to get to me |
| 15:18 | <roc> | yeah |
| 15:18 | <roc> | that's why I live there. |
| 15:19 | <jgraham> | You know, there are other types of mountain that are less likely to kill you? |
| 15:19 | <Ms2ger> | As good a reason as any |
| 15:19 | <jgraham> | s/,// |
| 15:19 | <roc> | yeah, but what a way to go |
| 15:19 | <roc> | it's been weeks since I've seen a volcano, and it's starting to get to me |
| 15:19 | <jgraham> | You know, there are other types of mountain that are less likely to kill you? |
| 15:19 | <jgraham> | s/,// |
| 15:20 | <roc> | anyway, the Auckland volcanic field is dormant. Sadly. |
| 15:20 | <charlvn> | or just buy a lava lamp instead |
| 15:20 | <roc> | chances of a deadly eruption in my lifetime are insignificant. |
| 15:20 | <roc> | yeah, but what a way to go |
| 15:20 | <charlvn> | much safer |
| 15:20 | <Ms2ger> | Wouldn't really be in your lifetime, I guess |
| 15:20 | <Ms2ger> | Maybe at the end of your lifetime |
| 15:20 | <roc> | anyway, the Auckland volcanic field is dormant. Sadly. |
| 15:20 | <charlvn> | or just buy a lava lamp instead |
| 15:20 | <roc> | chances of a deadly eruption in my lifetime are insignificant. |
| 15:21 | <charlvn> | much safer |
| 15:21 | <Ms2ger> | Wouldn't really be in your lifetime, I guess |
| 15:21 | <Ms2ger> | Maybe at the end of your lifetime |
| 15:24 | <roc> | The geologists claim they'd detect it in time to evacuate, although the behavior of the Auckland field is not completely understood, since the most recent eruption (Rangitoto) was quite anomalous |
| 15:24 | <roc> | The geologists claim they'd detect it in time to evacuate, although the behavior of the Auckland field is not completely understood, since the most recent eruption (Rangitoto) was quite anomalous |
| 15:25 | <roc> | you don't want to get me started talking about volcanoes, honestly |
| 15:25 | <roc> | you don't want to get me started talking about volcanoes, honestly |
| 15:26 | <Ms2ger> | Not even if it distracts you from public-html? :) |
| 15:26 | <Ms2ger> | Not even if it distracts you from public-html? :) |
| 15:34 | <roc> | I say that for your sake, not for mine |
| 15:34 | <roc> | I say that for your sake, not for mine |
| 15:37 | <roc> | hsivonen: thanks for fighting the good fight on public-html |
| 15:37 | <jgraham> | Well talk enough about Volcanos and you will make me slightly less unhappy I don't live in NZ |
| 15:38 | <roc> | hsivonen: thanks for fighting the good fight on public-html |
| 15:38 | <jgraham> | Well talk enough about Volcanos and you will make me slightly less unhappy I don't live in NZ |
| 15:39 | <hsivonen> | roc: I hope the effort results in a less bad outcome |
| 15:40 | jgraham | would also like to express his appreciation for all the people who have the enery to engage with the DRM thread |
| 15:40 | <hsivonen> | roc: I hope the effort results in a less bad outcome |
| 15:41 | <Ms2ger> | Same, with s/the DRM thread/the HTMLWG/ |
| 15:41 | <jgraham> | and s/enery/energy/ |
| 15:41 | jgraham | would also like to express his appreciation for all the people who have the enery to engage with the DRM thread |
| 15:41 | <Ms2ger> | Same, with s/the DRM thread/the HTMLWG/ |
| 15:42 | <jgraham> | and s/enery/energy/ |
| 15:59 | <smaug____> | Ms2ger: well, HTMLWG in general isn't that depressing, but the DRM discussion is |
| 16:00 | <Lachy> | doesn't seem like we'll be able to get any sort of outcome, so long as they continue to withold the requirements for a usable CDM, and refuse to discuss essential implementation details. |
| 16:00 | <smaug____> | yeah |
| 16:00 | <smaug____> | Ms2ger: well, HTMLWG in general isn't that depressing, but the DRM discussion is |
| 16:00 | <Lachy> | doesn't seem like we'll be able to get any sort of outcome, so long as they continue to withold the requirements for a usable CDM, and refuse to discuss essential implementation details. |
| 16:01 | <smaug____> | yeah |
| 16:02 | <Lachy> | nor while we're forced to discuss only with service providers, rather than the rights holders demanding DRM for their content. |
| 16:02 | <Lachy> | nor while we're forced to discuss only with service providers, rather than the rights holders demanding DRM for their content. |
| 16:03 | <Lachy> | since, no matter what alternative technical solution (other than 3rd party CDMs) we could come up with for offering protection, we'll have no idea if it'll be acceptable to the rights holders. |
| 16:03 | <Lachy> | since, no matter what alternative technical solution (other than 3rd party CDMs) we could come up with for offering protection, we'll have no idea if it'll be acceptable to the rights holders. |
| 16:04 | <Lachy> | No idea what minimum level of obfuscation and disabling of certain features (e.g. Save As, etc.) would be acceptable |
| 16:04 | <Lachy> | No idea what minimum level of obfuscation and disabling of certain features (e.g. Save As, etc.) would be acceptable |
| 16:09 | <AryehGregor> | Lachy, are you assuming the criteria are actually being set by technical people, rather than the DRM systems being concocted to make management or shareholders happy without any particular technical requirements at all? |
| 16:09 | <AryehGregor> | Lachy, are you assuming the criteria are actually being set by technical people, rather than the DRM systems being concocted to make management or shareholders happy without any particular technical requirements at all? |
| 16:10 | <AryehGregor> | Maybe you're right, but I'm not so confident. |
| 16:10 | <AryehGregor> | Maybe you're right, but I'm not so confident. |
| 17:00 | <kennyluck_> | In CSS, in what situation would some contents be clipped to the content edge, besides 'background-clip: content-box'? |
| 17:01 | <kennyluck_> | In CSS, in what situation would some contents be clipped to the content edge, besides 'background-clip: content-box'? |
| 17:02 | <Ms2ger> | In IE9? |
| 17:02 | <Ms2ger> | In IE9? |
| 17:04 | <kennyluck_> | Ms2ger, in the theory of the standards. |
| 17:04 | <kennyluck_> | Ms2ger, in the theory of the standards. |
| 17:05 | <kennyluck_> | I am reading CSS3 B&B and I don't quite understand why it defines the radii of the content edges. |
| 17:05 | <kennyluck_> | besides, well, for replaced elements. |
| 17:05 | <kennyluck_> | I am reading CSS3 B&B and I don't quite understand why it defines the radii of the content edges. |
| 17:06 | <roc> | yeah, those :-) |
| 17:06 | <Ms2ger> | I'd suggest TabAtkins_, if he isn't at sxsw |
| 17:06 | <kennyluck_> | besides, well, for replaced elements. |
| 17:06 | <roc> | yeah, those :-) |
| 17:07 | <Ms2ger> | I'd suggest TabAtkins_, if he isn't at sxsw |
| 17:23 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 17:23 | <Ms2ger> | Morning Glazkov |
| 17:23 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 17:24 | <Ms2ger> | Morning Glazkov |
| 17:27 | <dglazkov> | Hey, Ms2ger |
| 17:27 | <dglazkov> | Hey, Ms2ger |
| 17:32 | <dglazkov> | annevk: got a sec? |
| 17:32 | <dglazkov> | annevk: got a sec? |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | many secs |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | many secs |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | annevk: have you heard suggestions of adding selector methods to DocumentFragment before? |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | as in documentFragment.querySelector()? |
| 17:34 | <annevk> | I think that's already done |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | oh? |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | cool |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | where? |
| 17:34 | <annevk> | http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/#nodeselector |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | annevk: have you heard suggestions of adding selector methods to DocumentFragment before? |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | as in documentFragment.querySelector()? |
| 17:34 | <annevk> | I think that's already done |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | oh? |
| 17:34 | <dglazkov> | cool |
| 17:35 | <annevk> | or http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api2/#interface-definitions for v2 |
| 17:35 | <dglazkov> | weee |
| 17:35 | <dglazkov> | where? |
| 17:35 | <dglazkov> | that's great |
| 17:35 | <annevk> | http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/#nodeselector |
| 17:35 | <annevk> | or http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api2/#interface-definitions for v2 |
| 17:35 | <dglazkov> | weee |
| 17:35 | <dglazkov> | that's great |
| 17:38 | <dglazkov> | btw, this back-referencing is impossible to follow. Unless you know this spec exists, it's unknowable. I wonder if Selectors API should be a dependency in DOM4, and then the "implements" should be in DOM4 spec. |
| 17:38 | <annevk> | you knew about querySelector... |
| 17:38 | <dglazkov> | btw, this back-referencing is impossible to follow. Unless you know this spec exists, it's unknowable. I wonder if Selectors API should be a dependency in DOM4, and then the "implements" should be in DOM4 spec. |
| 17:39 | <annevk> | maybe querySelector should be defined in the DOM itself, but I dunno |
| 17:39 | <annevk> | you knew about querySelector... |
| 17:39 | <annevk> | maybe querySelector should be defined in the DOM itself, but I dunno |
| 17:40 | <annevk> | is "Decode and encode" a reasonable section name for a section defining the "decode" and "encode" algorithms specification must use? |
| 17:40 | <annevk> | maybe not must, but would typically use |
| 17:40 | <annevk> | is "Decode and encode" a reasonable section name for a section defining the "decode" and "encode" algorithms specification must use? |
| 17:40 | <annevk> | maybe not must, but would typically use |
| 17:41 | <dglazkov> | what else could it be called? :) sounds good to me. |
| 17:41 | <annevk> | k thanks, was wondering whether it lacked a word or something |
| 17:41 | <dglazkov> | what else could it be called? :) sounds good to me. |
| 17:42 | <dglazkov> | add a word "Awesome". that word always makes everything sounds better. |
| 17:42 | <Ms2ger> | WebDecode |
| 17:42 | <Ms2ger> | XEncode |
| 17:42 | <annevk> | k thanks, was wondering whether it lacked a word or something |
| 17:42 | <dglazkov> | add a word "Awesome". that word always makes everything sounds better. |
| 17:43 | <Ms2ger> | WebDecode |
| 17:43 | <Ms2ger> | XEncode |
| 17:44 | <smaug____> | yeah, you need "Web" somewhere there |
| 17:44 | <dglazkov> | WebAwesome |
| 17:45 | <annevk> | but this spec is the opposite of awesome :) |
| 17:45 | <annevk> | encodings are a big legacy mess |
| 17:45 | <dglazkov> | :) |
| 17:45 | <smaug____> | yeah, you need "Web" somewhere there |
| 17:45 | <dglazkov> | WebAwesome |
| 17:45 | <annevk> | but this spec is the opposite of awesome :) |
| 17:45 | <annevk> | encodings are a big legacy mess |
| 17:45 | <dglazkov> | :) |
| 17:46 | <rniwa> | annevk: can we push back on region's spec not to use node list? |
| 17:46 | <Ms2ger> | Sure |
| 17:46 | <Ms2ger> | Regions' OM stuff should be ignored at this point, aiui |
| 17:46 | <rniwa> | annevk: can we push back on region's spec not to use node list? |
| 17:46 | <Ms2ger> | Sure |
| 17:47 | <annevk> | rniwa: so we want Node[] instead? |
| 17:47 | <rniwa> | annevk: yeah |
| 17:47 | <annevk> | is that used somewhere already? |
| 17:47 | <rniwa> | annevk: the problem is that as it's currently spec'ed |
| 17:47 | <rniwa> | annevk: we'll have to do the layout whenever the list is accessed :( |
| 17:47 | <rniwa> | annevk: because the list of elements that belong to the same named flow can change due to style resolution |
| 17:47 | <annevk> | good times |
| 17:47 | <Ms2ger> | Regions' OM stuff should be ignored at this point, aiui |
| 17:47 | <annevk> | rniwa: so we want Node[] instead? |
| 17:47 | <rniwa> | annevk: yeah |
| 17:47 | <annevk> | is that used somewhere already? |
| 17:47 | <rniwa> | annevk: the problem is that as it's currently spec'ed |
| 17:47 | <rniwa> | annevk: we'll have to do the layout whenever the list is accessed :( |
| 17:48 | <annevk> | you can make it a static NodeList though |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: it makes very little sense for it to be dynamic node list |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: right. |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: because the list of elements that belong to the same named flow can change due to style resolution |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: that'll be fine with me |
| 17:48 | <annevk> | that's what selectors-api has |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: but dynamic node list makes very little sense and will hurt performance |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: you mean static nodelist? |
| 17:48 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 17:48 | <annevk> | good times |
| 17:48 | <annevk> | you can make it a static NodeList though |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: it makes very little sense for it to be dynamic node list |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: right. |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: that'll be fine with me |
| 17:48 | <annevk> | that's what selectors-api has |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: but dynamic node list makes very little sense and will hurt performance |
| 17:48 | <rniwa> | annevk: you mean static nodelist? |
| 17:49 | <annevk> | you just say in the spec return a static list of elements as determined at x (i suppose) |
| 17:49 | <rniwa> | annevk: apparently i've been kicked out of www-style for some mail deamon issue |
| 17:49 | <rniwa> | don't know why :( |
| 17:49 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 17:49 | <annevk> | you just say in the spec return a static list of elements as determined at x (i suppose) |
| 17:50 | <Ms2ger> | File a bug |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | i left voluntarily, can't help you there |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: also, nobody knows me in www-style |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: ok |
| 17:50 | <Ms2ger> | That's where Regions issues live |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | Ms2ger: yeah, I guess I should. |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | rniwa: could ask hober to help you out maybe or TabAtkins_ |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: okay |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: apparently i've been kicked out of www-style for some mail deamon issue |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | TabAtkins_, hober: yt? |
| 17:50 | <hober> | yo |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | don't know why :( |
| 17:50 | <Ms2ger> | File a bug |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | i left voluntarily, can't help you there |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: also, nobody knows me in www-style |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: ok |
| 17:50 | <Ms2ger> | That's where Regions issues live |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | Ms2ger: yeah, I guess I should. |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | rniwa: could ask hober to help you out maybe or TabAtkins_ |
| 17:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: okay |
| 17:51 | <hober> | we've already pushed back on the regions om stuff, but if you'd like i can do more of that |
| 17:51 | <rniwa> | TabAtkins_, hober: yt? |
| 17:51 | <hober> | yo |
| 17:51 | <hober> | we've already pushed back on the regions om stuff, but if you'd like i can do more of that |
| 17:52 | <rniwa> | hober: can we not add another live node list? |
| 17:52 | <rniwa> | hober: it makes very little sense there |
| 17:52 | <hober> | especially when you consider that regions won't (always) be made up of elements |
| 17:52 | <rniwa> | hober: can we not add another live node list? |
| 17:52 | <rniwa> | hober: it makes very little sense there |
| 17:53 | <hober> | there won't be nodes to make up your node list |
| 17:53 | <hober> | especially when you consider that regions won't (always) be made up of elements |
| 17:53 | <hober> | there won't be nodes to make up your node list |
| 17:54 | <rniwa> | hober: yeah... |
| 17:54 | <rniwa> | hober: i'm fine with static node list |
| 17:54 | <rniwa> | hober: yeah... |
| 17:55 | <rniwa> | hober: but live node list is really bad because it needs to be updated/invalidated possibly on every style recalc :( |
| 17:55 | <rniwa> | hober: i'm fine with static node list |
| 17:55 | <rniwa> | hober: but live node list is really bad because it needs to be updated/invalidated possibly on every style recalc :( |
| 17:59 | <rniwa> | Ms2ger, annevk, hober: filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16286 |
| 17:59 | <Ms2ger> | Ta |
| 17:59 | <rniwa> | Ms2ger, annevk, hober: filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16286 |
| 17:59 | <Ms2ger> | Ta |
| 18:22 | <annevk> | okay you guys |
| 18:22 | <annevk> | win |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | i will rename octet to byte |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | meh |
| 18:23 | <Ms2ger> | Why? |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | (reason: byte order mark) |
| 18:23 | <Ms2ger> | Could call it OOM :) |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | okay you guys |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | win |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | i will rename octet to byte |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | meh |
| 18:23 | <Ms2ger> | Why? |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | (reason: byte order mark) |
| 18:23 | <Ms2ger> | Could call it OOM :) |
| 18:24 | <bga> | interesting |
| 18:24 | <bga> | http://pastehtml.com/view/bqsiaej5b.html |
| 18:24 | <annevk> | I thought we were against neologisms? |
| 18:24 | <bga> | i can observe real css values diring animation |
| 18:24 | <bga> | is it standard? |
| 18:24 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: but you like octet? |
| 18:24 | <Ms2ger> | I don't mind it |
| 18:24 | <bga> | interesting |
| 18:24 | <bga> | http://pastehtml.com/view/bqsiaej5b.html |
| 18:24 | <annevk> | I thought we were against neologisms? |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | bga: what do you mean observe? |
| 18:25 | <bga> | i can observe real css values diring animation |
| 18:25 | <bga> | is it standard? |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: but you like octet? |
| 18:25 | <Ms2ger> | I don't mind it |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | bga: what do you mean observe? |
| 18:26 | <bga> | hover <a> |
| 18:26 | <bga> | opacity changes lively |
| 18:26 | <annevk> | oh hmm |
| 18:26 | <Ms2ger> | I don't mind byte much either |
| 18:26 | <bga> | hover <a> |
| 18:26 | <bga> | opacity changes lively |
| 18:26 | <annevk> | oh hmm |
| 18:26 | <Ms2ger> | I don't mind byte much either |
| 18:27 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: octet sounds nicer to me, but it's kind of an uphill battle I reckon |
| 18:27 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: octet sounds nicer to me, but it's kind of an uphill battle I reckon |
| 18:34 | <annevk> | the only problem is some legacy files... |
| 18:35 | <annevk> | the only problem is some legacy files... |
| 18:36 | <Ms2ger> | Sounds like the web |
| 18:37 | <Ms2ger> | Sounds like the web |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | done |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | also renamed the files |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | please report any links that link to the old stuff |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | done |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | also renamed the files |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | please report any links that link to the old stuff |
| 18:39 | <annevk> | violating Cool URIs don't change like it's '99 |
| 18:39 | <annevk> | violating Cool URIs don't change like it's '99 |
| 18:41 | Philip` | dislikes octet, since he's never heard anybody use it in the real world, so it just makes the standards world seem more foreign to the developers who have to interact with it |
| 18:41 | Philip` | dislikes octet, since he's never heard anybody use it in the real world, so it just makes the standards world seem more foreign to the developers who have to interact with it |
| 18:43 | <Philip`> | (and everybody understands that a byte is 8 bits, and anybody on a bizarre architecture where it's not 8 bits will know that they're on a bizarre architecture and will know to be careful when anyone else talks about bytes) |
| 18:43 | <Philip`> | (and everybody understands that a byte is 8 bits, and anybody on a bizarre architecture where it's not 8 bits will know that they're on a bizarre architecture and will know to be careful when anyone else talks about bytes) |
| 18:44 | <annevk> | I nevertheless just added a sentence for those with bizarre architectures |
| 18:44 | <annevk> | I nevertheless just added a sentence for those with bizarre architectures |
| 19:38 | <annevk> | teehee, someone reviewing XHR |
| 19:38 | <annevk> | been a while |
| 19:39 | <annevk> | teehee, someone reviewing XHR |
| 19:39 | <annevk> | been a while |
| 19:40 | <smaug____> | annevk: kyle? |
| 19:40 | <smaug____> | oh, no |
| 19:40 | <smaug____> | annevk: kyle? |
| 19:40 | <smaug____> | oh, no |
| 19:41 | <Ms2ger> | Heh, it's weird Glenn |
| 19:42 | <Ms2ger> | Heh, it's weird Glenn |
| 19:51 | <annevk> | whoa |
| 19:51 | <annevk> | Nøgne Ø has sake too |
| 19:51 | <annevk> | whoa |
| 19:52 | <annevk> | Nøgne Ø has sake too |
| 19:57 | <Ms2ger> | http://html5.clearboth.org/spec.html < wut |
| 19:57 | <Ms2ger> | http://html5.clearboth.org/spec.html < wut |
| 19:58 | <annevk> | partial translation to Korean? |
| 19:58 | <annevk> | partial translation to Korean? |
| 20:39 | <Ms2ger> | Hmm, should Attr be an EventTarget? |
| 20:39 | <Ms2ger> | Hmm, should Attr be an EventTarget? |
| 20:42 | <annevk> | ew no |
| 20:43 | <annevk> | ew no |
| 20:47 | <smaug____> | please no |
| 20:47 | <annevk> | someone willing to raise that to "over my dead body"? |
| 20:47 | <smaug____> | please no |
| 20:48 | <Ms2ger> | Apparently not |
| 20:48 | <annevk> | someone willing to raise that to "over my dead body"? |
| 20:49 | <Ms2ger> | Apparently not |
| 20:50 | <smaug____> | Ms2ger: I think only gecko has event listeners on Attr |
| 20:51 | <Ms2ger> | Even better |
| 20:51 | <smaug____> | and that is just because attrnodes happen to be nodes, and all nodes are eventtargets in gecko |
| 20:51 | <smaug____> | though, have tested this for ages |
| 20:51 | <smaug____> | Ms2ger: I think only gecko has event listeners on Attr |
| 20:51 | <Ms2ger> | Even better |
| 20:51 | <smaug____> | and that is just because attrnodes happen to be nodes, and all nodes are eventtargets in gecko |
| 20:52 | <Ms2ger> | How's the MutationObserver work going? |
| 20:52 | <smaug____> | coming :) |
| 20:52 | <smaug____> | though, have tested this for ages |
| 20:52 | <Ms2ger> | How's the MutationObserver work going? |
| 20:52 | <smaug____> | coming :) |
| 20:53 | <smaug____> | annevk: btw, do you know if someone is implementing MutationObservers Presto |
| 20:53 | <annevk> | not yet |
| 20:53 | <annevk> | but it's being planned for |
| 20:53 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: how is removing Attr nodes going? |
| 20:53 | <smaug____> | annevk: btw, do you know if someone is implementing MutationObservers Presto |
| 20:53 | <annevk> | not yet |
| 20:54 | <Ms2ger> | Nothing much happening |
| 20:54 | <smaug____> | Ms2ger: are you waiting for something ? |
| 20:54 | <annevk> | but it's being planned for |
| 20:54 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: how is removing Attr nodes going? |
| 20:54 | <Ms2ger> | Nothing much happening |
| 20:55 | <Ms2ger> | Time |
| 20:55 | <smaug____> | the thing that no one has |
| 20:55 | <Ms2ger> | Get me a minion? :) |
| 20:55 | <smaug____> | Ms2ger: are you waiting for something ? |
| 20:55 | <Ms2ger> | Time |
| 20:55 | <smaug____> | the thing that no one has |
| 20:56 | <Ms2ger> | Get me a minion? :) |
| 21:00 | <jamesr_> | Ms2ger, does "weird Glenn" = the Glenn that isn't zewt? |
| 21:00 | <Ms2ger> | Yes |
| 21:01 | <jamesr_> | Ms2ger, does "weird Glenn" = the Glenn that isn't zewt? |
| 21:01 | <Ms2ger> | Yes |
| 21:03 | <zewt> | (hi) |
| 21:04 | <zewt> | (hi) |
| 21:06 | <Ms2ger> | Hi, smart Glenn |
| 21:06 | <Ms2ger> | Hi, smart Glenn |
| 21:07 | <jamesr_> | zewt, tbh sometimes you're weird too, but you definitely aren't "weird Glenn" |
| 21:07 | <zewt> | well, i *am* on a spec irc channel |
| 21:07 | <jamesr_> | zewt, tbh sometimes you're weird too, but you definitely aren't "weird Glenn" |
| 21:08 | <smaug____> | "CDM APIs are not that complex" eh. CDM API needs to be pretty close to NPAPI to have the functionality netflix&co want |
| 21:08 | <zewt> | well, i *am* on a spec irc channel |
| 21:09 | <smaug____> | "CDM APIs are not that complex" eh. CDM API needs to be pretty close to NPAPI to have the functionality netflix&co want |
| 21:40 | <annevk> | zewt: other glenn is too |
| 21:40 | <annevk> | zewt: just different channel |
| 21:40 | <annevk> | zewt: other glenn is too |
| 21:40 | <annevk> | zewt: just different channel |
| 21:58 | <annevk> | new WebApps charter: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/webapps-proposed-charter.html |
| 21:59 | <annevk> | new WebApps charter: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/webapps-proposed-charter.html |
| 22:03 | <oal> | Compression is not in the websocket spec yet, right? |
| 22:03 | <oal> | Compression is not in the websocket spec yet, right? |
| 22:13 | <Hixie> | oal: not yet |
| 22:13 | <Hixie> | oal: not yet |
| 22:16 | <oal> | Hixie: too bad. I found something from 2010 that said it was targeted for Websockets 2, when can we expect to see that? |
| 22:16 | <oal> | I just hope the websockets spec moves faster than ... ehm, some of the other web specs |
| 22:16 | <oal> | Hixie: too bad. I found something from 2010 that said it was targeted for Websockets 2, when can we expect to see that? |
| 22:17 | <astearns> | jgraham: how often does testharness.js change? |
| 22:17 | <Hixie> | oal: the ietf took over the spec after that plan was made |
| 22:17 | <oal> | I just hope the websockets spec moves faster than ... ehm, some of the other web specs |
| 22:17 | <astearns> | jgraham: how often does testharness.js change? |
| 22:18 | <Hixie> | oal: the ietf took over the spec after that plan was made |
| 22:19 | <oal> | So they no longer have any concrete plans for it? |
| 22:19 | <Hixie> | dunno, i stopped following that work a while back |
| 22:19 | <oal> | So they no longer have any concrete plans for it? |
| 22:19 | <Hixie> | dunno, i stopped following that work a while back |
| 22:21 | <jgraham> | astearns: define "change"? |
| 22:22 | <astearns> | when I add the file to the WebKit repository, how often am I going to have to update it? |
| 22:22 | <jgraham> | astearns: define "change"? |
| 22:22 | <astearns> | when I add the file to the WebKit repository, how often am I going to have to update it? |
| 22:23 | <astearns> | and should I expect changes that will require me to modify tests that were based on an older version? |
| 22:23 | <jgraham> | There are probably custers of changes ever week or two |
| 22:23 | <jgraham> | But it should remain backwards-compatible |
| 22:23 | <jgraham> | At least, the API won't change |
| 22:23 | <astearns> | and should I expect changes that will require me to modify tests that were based on an older version? |
| 22:23 | <jgraham> | There are probably custers of changes ever week or two |
| 22:23 | <jgraham> | But it should remain backwards-compatible |
| 22:24 | <jgraham> | If a test method is wrong it might be updated |
| 22:24 | <astearns> | where's the best place to discuss/monitor changes? |
| 22:24 | <jgraham> | e.g. there is a plan to update assert_throws to more closely match DOM4 |
| 22:24 | <jgraham> | At least, the API won't change |
| 22:24 | <jgraham> | If a test method is wrong it might be updated |
| 22:25 | <jgraham> | http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/resources has a feed or https://github.com/w3c/testharness.js |
| 22:25 | <astearns> | where's the best place to discuss/monitor changes? |
| 22:25 | <jgraham> | e.g. there is a plan to update assert_throws to more closely match DOM4 |
| 22:26 | <astearns> | ok - thanks! |
| 22:26 | <jgraham> | Discussion on public-test-infra mailing list or the html/webapps testing lists |
| 22:26 | <jgraham> | http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/resources has a feed or https://github.com/w3c/testharness.js |
| 22:26 | <astearns> | ok - thanks! |
| 22:26 | <jgraham> | Discussion on public-test-infra mailing list or the html/webapps testing lists |
| 22:33 | <annevk> | what is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/spec-prod/2012JanMar/0019.html about? |
| 22:33 | annevk | is confused |
| 22:34 | <annevk> | what is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/spec-prod/2012JanMar/0019.html about? |
| 22:34 | annevk | is confused |
| 22:35 | <astearns> | fantasia is taking on additional personas? |
| 22:35 | <astearns> | *fantasai |
| 22:35 | <astearns> | fantasia is taking on additional personas? |
| 22:36 | <smaug____> | strange |
| 22:36 | <astearns> | *fantasai |
| 22:37 | <smaug____> | strange |
| 22:38 | <pablof> | annevk, jgraham: fyi https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2012-March/019879.html |
| 22:39 | <astearns> | (that's why I was asking about testharness.js) |
| 22:39 | <pablof> | annevk, jgraham: fyi https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2012-March/019879.html |
| 22:39 | <astearns> | (that's why I was asking about testharness.js) |
| 22:40 | pablof | doesn't believe in reading the backlog |
| 22:40 | <pablof> | :P |
| 22:41 | jgraham | thinks that looks excellent :) |
| 22:41 | <jgraham> | Also that it is sleep time CET |
| 22:41 | pablof | doesn't believe in reading the backlog |
| 22:41 | <pablof> | :P |
| 22:41 | jgraham | thinks that looks excellent :) |
| 22:41 | <jgraham> | Also that it is sleep time CET |
| 22:42 | <smaug____> | can't be. EET is still awake |
| 22:42 | <smaug____> | can't be. EET is still awake |
| 22:45 | <annevk> | pablof: looks nice |
| 22:50 | <annevk> | so the email above is some kind of spam? |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | anyone from the W3C awake? |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | also appeared here now: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2012JanMar/0152.html |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: kennyluck_ ^^ |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | [tm]: ^^ |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | so the email above is some kind of spam? |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | anyone from the W3C awake? |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | also appeared here now: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2012JanMar/0152.html |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: kennyluck_ ^^ |
| 22:51 | <annevk> | [tm]: ^^ |
| 23:28 | <zewt> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2012JanMar/0152.html heh ... what? |
| 23:28 | <zewt> | some odd combination of multiple personalities and time travelling |
| 23:28 | <zewt> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2012JanMar/0152.html heh ... what? |
| 23:28 | <zewt> | some odd combination of multiple personalities and time travelling |
| 23:31 | <annevk> | someone is spamming |
| 23:31 | <annevk> | someone is spamming |
| 23:34 | <kennyluck_> | yeah I am surprised by that fantasai mail too. |
| 23:34 | <kennyluck_> | yeah I am surprised by that fantasai mail too. |
| 23:46 | <Hixie> | ok, i think i'm done with the Path object checkin (first of many to add new features) |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | of course, it doesn't yet let you paint the paths... |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | ok, i think i'm done with the Path object checkin (first of many to add new features) |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | so it's not very useful |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | of course, it doesn't yet let you paint the paths... |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | so it's not very useful |