| 02:27 | <quiznilo> | how long do you guess IETC will upgrade 6455 to a draft standard? |
| 02:27 | <quiznilo> | *will it take |
| 02:34 | <quiznilo> | nevermind, I see here there are no more 'draft standards' by rfc 6410 |
| 06:00 | <MikeSmith> | if I want to cache binary objects on the client side for use in a Web app, what should I use? |
| 06:00 | <MikeSmith> | indexed DB? |
| 06:25 | <AryehGregor> | MikeSmith, how many, and how big? |
| 06:29 | <MikeSmith> | AryehGregor: a few dozen and around 500K or so I guess |
| 06:29 | <AryehGregor> | Around 500K each? |
| 06:29 | <MikeSmith> | up to 500K I gues |
| 06:29 | <AryehGregor> | Then IDB is probably your only real choice, I guess. |
| 06:31 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 06:31 | <MikeSmith> | I know there's the File System API |
| 06:32 | <MikeSmith> | but it is seeming like that might not get implemented across browsrs |
| 08:00 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: So, my feeling is that window.stop should probably abort the parser, but still go through The End in the normal way. Doesn't match Gecko or WebKit but almost matches Opera (and hopefully no one really relies on this behaviour) |
| 08:32 | <zcorpan> | should the html spec be changed to not suggest vendor prefixes? |
| 08:39 | <niloy> | does anyone know how to access a spdy enabled website, I tried the URL "spdy://google.co.in" but chrome just did a search on it |
| 08:40 | <annevk> | zcorpan: they have not been that harmful for HTML thus far, mostly due to them not being used |
| 08:41 | <annevk> | zcorpan: actually the one instance where they have (fullscreen) it has been harmful... |
| 08:41 | <jgraham> | annevk: "yes" was the shorter version of that answer |
| 08:42 | <annevk> | jgraham: hindsight |
| 08:49 | <doublec> | niloy: just accessing it normally with http://... should use spdy if the website supports it |
| 08:57 | <niloy> | doublec, thanks |
| 09:08 | <annevk> | for http://[12::]:12 Gecko omits [ and ] for .host |
| 09:08 | <annevk> | for .hostname sorry |
| 09:08 | <annevk> | no other browser does that |
| 09:10 | <annevk> | all these parsers are buggy as hell |
| 10:54 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: I'm here now |
| 11:13 | <annevk> | are there any URLs that do not have an authority component but do have a path component? |
| 11:27 | <zcorpan> | about:blank? |
| 11:29 | <zcorpan> | javascript:... |
| 11:42 | <annevk> | zcorpan: afaik those don't have a path component because e.g. javascript:"/../" does not get normalized |
| 11:47 | <AryehGregor> | annevk, file://? |
| 11:48 | <annevk> | AryehGregor: doesn't that have an implied authority component of localhost in most browsers? |
| 11:48 | <annevk> | (hence the triple slash) |
| 11:49 | <AryehGregor> | Um, I dunno. Syntactically it has no authority component. |
| 11:49 | <annevk> | yes it does |
| 11:49 | <AryehGregor> | Hmm. |
| 11:50 | <AryehGregor> | RFC 3986 doesn't allow an empty authority component, AFAICT. |
| 11:51 | <annevk> | yes |
| 11:51 | <annevk> | host -> reg-name -> *( unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims ) -> allows nothing |
| 11:52 | <AryehGregor> | Okay, I guess. |
| 11:52 | <annevk> | not that RFC 3986 is followed much |
| 11:53 | <annevk> | I'm sketching a new parser |
| 11:58 | <matjas> | Ms2ger, jgraham: would you mind giving some feedback on http://mathias.html5.org/tests/html/named-character-references/w3c/? trying to use the test harness correctly |
| 11:58 | <matjas> | is is ok like that, or would you prefer separate test() calls for each test? |
| 11:59 | <Ms2ger> | Mm.. Maybe |
| 11:59 | <Ms2ger> | With one test, you stop at the first failure |
| 12:00 | <Ms2ger> | So I guess if there are still browsers that fail anything there, a test() per entity would be better |
| 12:00 | <annevk> | put sketch for URL parser online http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/URL |
| 12:01 | <annevk> | [tm]: ^^ |
| 12:05 | <zcorpan> | annevk: some browsers expose .pathname for those urls, though |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | zcorpan: yeah, even query |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | zcorpan: not sure that makes a lot of sense, but we could reuse .pathname to store the data I guess |
| 12:07 | <zcorpan> | matjas: one test() per test is better. there's a convenience function called generate_tests() or some such, though i haven't used it myself |
| 12:07 | <matjas> | zcorpan: the source said generate_tests() might be removed in the future, so i got scared |
| 12:08 | <zcorpan> | matjas: heh, ok. the other thing still applies though :-) |
| 12:08 | <matjas> | Ms2ger, zcorpan: thanks, on it! |
| 12:09 | <zcorpan> | general guideline: failing one test() shouldn't change the total number of tests |
| 12:10 | <jgraham> | matjas: generate_tests is pretty safe I would say |
| 12:10 | <Ms2ger> | matjas, generate_tests is deprecated-ish :) |
| 12:10 | <jgraham> | Heh |
| 12:10 | <matjas> | … |
| 12:10 | <matjas> | what just happened |
| 12:10 | <jgraham> | Well it can be problematic |
| 12:10 | <Ms2ger> | Unless jgraham removes that comment |
| 12:10 | <jgraham> | If you have an exception in the code that is generating the tests, you suddenly get 0 tests |
| 12:11 | <matjas> | so, like this? http://mathias.html5.org/tests/html/named-character-references/w3c/ what’s with the metadata warning? |
| 12:11 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: but that'd apply for a custom-written test generator equally, right? |
| 12:11 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Yes |
| 12:11 | <jgraham> | matjas: plinss being over0enthusiastic |
| 12:12 | <matjas> | jgraham: ok, i’ll just ignore it then. do the tests look ok otherwise? |
| 12:13 | <zcorpan> | matjas: looks ok from a quick look |
| 12:14 | <jgraham> | I don't see anything wrong at a glance. |
| 12:15 | <matjas> | ok, thanks for taking a look |
| 12:16 | <[tm]> | xslt2 implemented in Javascript, friends |
| 12:17 | <[tm]> | performantly |
| 12:17 | <zcorpan> | now implement javascript in xslt2 in javascript |
| 12:17 | <[tm]> | hahaha |
| 12:18 | <zcorpan> | performantly |
| 12:18 | <[tm]> | this odds a sure sign of the apocolypse |
| 12:19 | <[tm]> | i would like to see the code |
| 12:19 | <[tm]> | wait no i really wouldn't |
| 12:20 | <zcorpan> | hey icaaq |
| 12:20 | <[tm]> | next we implement visual basic in js |
| 12:20 | <icaaq> | zcorpan: hey! |
| 12:20 | <Ms2ger> | [tm], naaah |
| 12:20 | <Ms2ger> | Visual Basic in js-on-xslt-on-js |
| 12:20 | <zcorpan> | icaaq: how's things? |
| 12:21 | <icaaq> | zcorpan: great! tgif. long time since I was in this channel :) you? |
| 12:22 | <zcorpan> | icaaq: good good. i'm still here regularly :-) |
| 12:24 | <icaaq> | zcorpan: :) I heard chaals is leaving opera |
| 12:24 | <zcorpan> | yeah |
| 12:27 | <[tm]> | they are hiring Assa Dotzler to replace chaals |
| 12:28 | <Ms2ger> | Asa* |
| 12:28 | <Ms2ger> | And my condolences |
| 12:28 | <icaaq> | really? |
| 12:28 | <zcorpan> | icaaq: don't pay attention to these guys :-P |
| 12:29 | <Ms2ger> | Friday night for [tm] |
| 12:29 | <Ms2ger> | And, well, [tm] |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | also, Ms2ger |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | known troll |
| 12:29 | <icaaq> | haha |
| 12:29 | <Ms2ger> | Yw |
| 12:30 | <[tm]> | every night is Friday night for Mikey |
| 12:30 | <annevk> | Lachy: http://dbaron.org/css/intrinsic/ |
| 12:30 | <Lachy> | annevk, thanks. I found that already |
| 12:31 | <annevk> | I was going to update the wiki, but it eh is down? |
| 12:31 | <Lachy> | but stig wants me to pick something related to docxs instead of layout |
| 12:31 | <Lachy> | wiki works for me |
| 12:32 | zcorpan | wonders what Lachy and annevk are discussing |
| 12:32 | <Lachy> | zcorpan, I'm being assigned to more spec work. I need to find a spec that needs working on. |
| 12:33 | <zcorpan> | ah. nice! |
| 12:33 | <zcorpan> | going into css land? |
| 12:33 | <Lachy> | current options now include DOM Events and WebECMAScript stuff documented in the wiki. |
| 12:33 | <Ms2ger> | Apparently not |
| 12:34 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 12:35 | <annevk> | Lachy: could talk to olak as well |
| 12:35 | <annevk> | Lachy: sitecompat usually means a ton of spec issues somewhere |
| 12:36 | annevk | updated http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Specs_todo#CSS |
| 12:50 | <matjas> | can i submit this test somewhere? http://mathias.html5.org/tests/javascript/identifiers/ |
| 12:51 | <Ms2ger> | To ECMA? No |
| 12:52 | <Ms2ger> | They don't accept tests unless you work for a member company |
| 12:55 | <matjas> | and the W3C only accepts HTML/CSS tests, right? |
| 12:56 | <Ms2ger> | I guess |
| 12:56 | <annevk> | matjas: well, they typically accept tests for specs |
| 12:56 | <Ms2ger> | I'd take them ;) |
| 12:56 | <annevk> | matjas: but I think if you talk to plh / mike you can get a place for JavaScript tests |
| 12:57 | <matjas> | the above test tests for ECMAScript 5.1 + Unicode 6.1 + http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Web_ECMAScript#Identifiers |
| 12:57 | <matjas> | so it’s more of a compatibility tests than anything else |
| 12:58 | <matjas> | as the ES spec allows engines to use Unicode 3 (and doesn’t require the Web ECMAScript exception for identifiers) |
| 12:59 | matjas | looks at [tm] |
| 13:10 | <[tm]> | matjas: we shall make a place for js tests |
| 13:11 | <[tm]> | but out will have to |
| 13:11 | <[tm]> | will have to wait till really next week |
| 13:12 | <[tm]> | because the maker OS deep i |
| 13:12 | <[tm]> | is deep into his 7th chu-hai |
| 13:16 | <jgraham> | matjas: Tack för testerna :) |
| 13:16 | <matjas> | jgraham: du är välkommen! more useful ones coming |
| 13:17 | <matjas> | (blame Google Translate if that came out wrong) |
| 13:17 | <icaaq> | what's up with the swedish? :) |
| 13:18 | <matjas> | [tm]: deal |
| 13:19 | <hasather> | matjas: "Var så god" would've been correct :) "Välkommen" is "welcome" as in the greeting. |
| 13:19 | <jgraham> | icaaq: Varför inte Svenska? (actually I don't really know. Maybe I just feel bad that I know so little Swedish after living here for so long) |
| 13:19 | <icaaq> | du bor i sverige? var :) |
| 13:20 | matjas | sets lang=en |
| 13:21 | <jgraham> | I Linköping |
| 13:22 | <jgraham> | matjas: Sorry, I didn't mean to waken all the Swedes ;) |
| 13:22 | <icaaq> | ahh ok. Jag bor i Mora. *back to english* |
| 13:23 | <icaaq> | :) |
| 13:29 | <[tm]> | jag förstår inte |
| 13:42 | <Ms2ger> | [tm], also webgl, please :) |
| 13:44 | <[tm]> | hai |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | so yeah, I'm no longer the editor of CSSOM View |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | but it seems nobody else is either |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/log/1693d8c293a4/cssom-view/Overview.src.html |
| 13:48 | <annevk> | :/ |
| 13:50 | <[tm]> | annevk: hahaha |
| 13:50 | <[tm]> | real leadership going on over there |
| 13:51 | <[tm]> | great example to all of us of how to run things |
| 13:52 | <[tm]> | crazy plus crazy |
| 13:53 | <[tm]> | taking out to |
| 13:53 | <[tm]> | taking it to a whole nothet |
| 13:53 | <[tm]> | nother level |
| 14:04 | <[tm]> | ah Julian is such a treasure |
| 14:06 | <[tm]> | annevk: the answer is that if he wants that kind of spec, he can write one |
| 14:06 | <[tm]> | but he's not ever going to do that of course |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | I doubt that is feasible too |
| 14:07 | <[tm]> | far easier to just forever play guardian of purity from the sidelines |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | it's kind of hard to say conclusively of course, but I already like my pseudo-code a lot better than RFC 3986 to answer questions about URLs... |
| 14:07 | <[tm]> | yup |
| 14:20 | <[tm]> | Christ |
| 14:20 | <[tm]> | annevk: this is a really special neurosis |
| 14:21 | <[tm]> | that thread |
| 14:21 | <[tm]> | dude really needs to find another hobby |
| 14:48 | <zcorpan> | annevk: how silly of you not to consider what webkit will do tomorrow |
| 14:48 | <annevk> | heh |
| 14:48 | <annevk> | my idea was to write down what webkit will do tomorrow |
| 14:51 | <annevk> | the "patch the existing spec" tactic has fallen out of favor with me for specs that are not actively maintained |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | HTML, Media Queries, Cookies, MIME, DOM, Encoding all showed that to be much harder than starting with a fresh perspective |
| 14:57 | <annevk> | matjas: what the hell is MySQL three-byte UTF-8 |
| 14:58 | <matjas> | annevk: MySQL’s `utf8` collation doesn’t support astral symbols |
| 14:58 | <annevk> | matjas: not natively or not at all? |
| 14:59 | <matjas> | annevk: not at all |
| 14:59 | <annevk> | I wonder how I manage to store those characters in blog posts then... |
| 14:59 | <gavinc> | BMP characters only :( |
| 14:59 | <matjas> | annevk: wat |
| 15:00 | <matjas> | annevk: to get the 𝌆 symbol in http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/javascript-encoding I had to use str_replace() |
| 15:00 | <matjas> | annevk: got an example of such a blog post? |
| 15:00 | <annevk> | hmm maybe I don't |
| 15:04 | <matjas> | annevk: i believe wordpress has a workaround, you might have written something similar |
| 17:53 | jwalden | is bemused to see that some readonly attributes in WebIDL can have setter functions associated with them in the ECMAScript bindings |
| 18:10 | <aklein> | smaug____: yt? got a question about an oddity with Firefox MutationObservers and the style attribute... |
| 18:12 | <smaug____> | aklein: yes? |
| 18:15 | <aklein> | smaug____: it appears that changing non-existent style properties triggers a MutationRecord creation. here's the test that passes in WebKit but fails in Firefox: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests/fast/mutation/observe-attributes.html#L741 |
| 18:17 | <aklein> | not a big deal, seems to me, but it's the one test that failed when I ran Aurora through our tests just now |
| 18:18 | <smaug____> | aklein: so the problem isn't about mutationobserver |
| 18:18 | <smaug____> | just about whether attr should change in that case... |
| 18:18 | <smaug____> | "Mutating the CSSStyleDeclaration object must create a style attribute on the element (if there isn't one already) and then change its value to be a value representing the serialized form of the CSSStyleDeclaration object." |
| 18:19 | <aklein> | true, it's a lower layer than MutationObserver |
| 18:19 | <smaug____> | aklein: so, per spec there should be a mutation |
| 18:21 | <aklein> | smaug____: thanks for the spec citation, I think this then buckets into the other set of failures (general behavioral differences). I very much doubt this would be a problem in practice. |
| 18:21 | <smaug____> | yeah |
| 18:27 | <smaug____> | aklein: in your test, perhaps you shouldn't use shouldBe |
| 18:27 | <smaug____> | but something like todo |
| 18:27 | <smaug____> | if you have todo |
| 18:27 | <smaug____> | so that it clearly indicates what the result should be |
| 18:36 | <matjas> | I bet Hixie is gonna ♥ JSON even more once he sees https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17490#c2 |
| 18:45 | <hober> | matjas: yeah, i rejected a patch to json.el that added octal & hex literals and the patch author was incredulous |
| 19:26 | <Ms2ger> | So, if you pass 4 arguments to drawImage, what should happen? |
| 20:46 | <Hixie> | oh are you effing kidding me |
| 20:47 | <Hixie> | how can json not support hex literals |
| 20:47 | <Hixie> | especially when it supports hex character escapes! |
| 20:47 | <Hixie> | wtf |
| 20:48 | <Hixie> | matjas: why the str()? does python not convert integers to strings when concatenated with strings? |
| 20:49 | <SimonSapin> | Hixie: no, to avoid surprises like '1'+1 being '11' … or maybe 2 |
| 20:50 | <Hixie> | so it's a dynamically typed language that doesn't do dynamic conversion? awesome. |
| 20:50 | <Hixie> | all the disadvantages of strong typing with none of its advantages |
| 20:51 | <SimonSapin> | yes, strong+dynamic |
| 20:51 | <SimonSapin> | strong/weak is not the same as dynamic/static |
| 20:51 | <Hixie> | yes, i am aware :-) |
| 20:53 | <SimonSapin> | right. Don’t feed the troll ;) |
| 21:04 | <zewt> | trying to get webgl folks to do the right thing can try one's endurance |
| 23:12 | <aklein> | Hixie: the HTML parser doesn't reference DOM4's mutation methods when constructing the tree, does it? from the text it seems to know how to create a tree all on its own. |
| 23:49 | <aklein> | Hixie: perhaps next week. in the meantime, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012AprJun/1198.html |