04:10
<Yuhong>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2001Mar/0023.html
04:11
<Yuhong>
about document.all and document.getElementById
04:11
<Yuhong>
from 2001 before IE6 was released by Hixie.
04:12
<Yuhong>
from 2001 before IE6 was released, by Hixie.
04:37
<jackjack>
Hello, everyone!
04:38
<jackjack>
is there anyone who is familiar with HTML tokenization states?
04:39
<jackjack>
I need a little help
04:39
<jackjack>
Thanks!
04:44
<espadrine`>
jackjack: do you have a question?
04:45
<jackjack>
Yes, as mentioned by HTML standards: " In some cases, the tokenizer state is also changed by the tree construction stage.
04:45
<jackjack>
"
04:46
<jackjack>
I am wondering what are the "some cases"?
04:48
<jackjack>
 "The exact behavior of certain states depends on the insertion mode and the stack of open elements."
04:50
<jackjack>
What are those "certain states" ?
04:50
<jackjack>
Anyone can help me ?
04:52
<espadrine`>
I would assume that this has to do with document.write, but I cannot assert that for sure
04:54
<espadrine`>
although it's bad to use document.write
04:55
<espadrine`>
cats die when you do that
05:58
<SimonSapin>
Tabatkins: Looking at your new CSS parser now. Do you exepect to have JS tests for it? How would these relate to a test suite for the spec?
06:41
<jwalden>
gsnedders: the yak-shaving and the __proto__ patch test out and are posted for review now!
06:41
<jwalden>
\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
06:42
<jwalden>
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773850 and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770344 if you care
06:44
<espadrine`>
yay for __proto__!
06:44
<espadrine`>
not sure what yak-shaving does though
07:18
<jwalden>
boo for __proto__
07:18
<jwalden>
but yay for its being implemented sanely, if it must be implemented at all
07:19
<jwalden>
the yak-shaving was some API cleanup/improvement over what we had before, which was thoroughly bizarre and unreadable
07:39
<annevk>
jackjack: <plaintext>, <script>, and such cause the tokenizer to change from the parser
07:40
<annevk>
jackjack: espadrine: document.write() just injects into the character stream, it does not actually change state (although the characters it injects could of course)
08:08
<rniwa>
annevk: not sure if you've read my rant about htmlcollection but can we somehow name HTML*Collection::namedItem saner?
08:08
<rniwa>
annevk: as is, it's implementation/API nightmare.
08:08
<rniwa>
somehow make*
08:10
<Ms2ger>
"<Yuhong> from 2001 before IE6 was released by Hixie."
08:10
Ms2ger
didn't read that as intended
08:11
<annevk>
how was that intended?
08:12
<Ms2ger>
A comma after "released"
08:12
<annevk>
rniwa: I recommend filing a bug on Gecko and Opera to see if they agree to implement saner behavior
08:12
<rniwa>
annevk: i don't think neither Gecko nor Opera implements what the spec says.
08:12
<Ms2ger>
rniwa, and test if we don't do that already :)
08:12
<annevk>
rniwa: if Hixie disagrees the simplest approach is to convince the other vendors of your right
08:13
<rniwa>
annevk: hixie mention that there are some comat. issues :\
08:13
<rniwa>
mentions*
08:13
<annevk>
rniwa: no he presumes there are
08:14
<rniwa>
annevk: hm... maybe i should try that then.
08:14
<annevk>
there might be compat issues and the people that can tell you are the other vendors
08:15
<annevk>
but sometimes e.g. Gecko is willing to take a small short term hit for long term API improvements
08:25
<rniwa>
annevk: yeah, Mozilla is good at that.
08:25
<rniwa>
annevk: wish we could do the same in WebKit :\
08:25
<rniwa>
annevk: but we have some constraints :(
08:25
<annevk>
you can in Chromium ;)
08:26
<rniwa>
annevk: oh well, we try not to diverse too much between ports
08:26
<rniwa>
annevk: we don't want to end up with 4-5 different flavors of webkit :)
08:27
<rniwa>
annevk: arguably, we're more liberal about changing web-facing APIs than other ports but still.
08:29
<Ms2ger>
And here I thought you already had ended up with 4-5 different flavours of webkit :)
08:30
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: noooo. don't point out the painful fact.
08:30
<Ms2ger>
:D
08:31
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: ironically, i use firefox on my android tablet because that's the only browser available on my ICS tablet that reliably lets me review/comment on bugs.webkit.org
08:32
<Ms2ger>
Yw ;)
08:32
<Ms2ger>
Now, what do you think about Chrome-on-Gecko? :)
08:33
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: you mean chrome inside BtG?
08:33
<rniwa>
BtoG*
08:34
<rniwa>
or was it B2G?
08:34
<espadrine>
rniwa: Firefox OS now
08:34
<rniwa>
espadrine: oh, that's right.
08:34
<rniwa>
espadrine, Ms2ger: so you want Chrome on Firefox OS?
08:34
<Ms2ger>
No, I want Chrome to get rid of webkit and use Gecko instead :)
08:34
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: oh... not sure about that.
08:35
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: you guys don't support multi process model still :\
08:35
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: and don't support all those webkit extensions.
08:35
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: anyway, i think it's nice to have competition between different browser engines
08:35
<Ms2ger>
That's coming soon enough
08:35
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: maybe we'll consider once you've removed all the comments in your code :)
08:36
<Ms2ger>
Hah
08:36
<Ms2ger>
To make it look more like webkit? :)
08:36
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2012-July/thread.html
08:37
Ms2ger
snorts
08:37
<Ms2ger>
Hey, if you join us, you don't need to write ChangeLog entries ;)
08:38
<espadrine>
although you will need to struggle with mercurial queues
08:39
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: no, i love change logs :)
08:39
<rniwa>
espadrine: must use svn ;)
08:39
<Ms2ger>
Shrug, MQ is nice
08:40
<espadrine>
ouch. svn. I thought webkit people all used git as an svn front-end
08:40
<rniwa>
espadrine: no.
08:40
<rniwa>
espadrine: i actually prefer svn over git
08:40
<rniwa>
espadrine: git is way too complicated for my work flow
08:41
<rniwa>
espadrine, Ms2ger: if i do join mozilla, you'll find out how "unconventional" and how unhip i am :)
08:41
<Ms2ger>
rniwa, we hate git too ;)
08:41
<Ms2ger>
Except the a-team and webdev
08:42
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2012-March/019808.html for your enjoyment
08:42
<rniwa>
or http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2012-March/thread.html
08:42
<Ms2ger>
WebKittens?
08:42
<rniwa>
yeah
08:43
<espadrine>
one day we'll all have to move to git anyway
08:43
<espadrine>
Servo is handled by git :)
08:44
<rniwa>
espadrine: i'm not convinced.
08:44
<espadrine>
rniwa: don't worry, I won't make the elevator pitch.
08:45
<rniwa>
anyway, i have a serious problem with people who advocate for one-fits-all solution.
08:47
<rniwa>
they irritate me to no end
08:47
<rniwa>
just like people who jokingly talk about everything would have been easy if we all spoke English, etc...
08:48
<Ms2ger>
Imagine how many would speak en-AU then
08:52
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: I had a Scottish English teacher who lied in Ireland for years.
08:53
<rniwa>
lived*
08:53
<Ms2ger>
The original was more fascinating
08:53
Ms2ger
imagines an obsessive liar in a kilt
08:53
<Ms2ger>
... walking through the Irish countryside
08:54
<rniwa>
hehehe
08:55
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: actually, Dublin is the only city in Europe i've been to.
08:55
rniwa
is excited about TPAC in Lyon :)
08:55
<Ms2ger>
For the beer? :)
08:55
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: i was 17 at the time
08:55
<rniwa>
Ms2ger: so no beer for me.
08:55
<Ms2ger>
I see
08:56
Ms2ger
is never excited about TPAC
08:58
<volkmar>
Hixie: for the autocompletetype, my opinion (and bz when we talked) is that it is a very bad idea and we can solve that we current input types
08:58
<volkmar>
I've never found time to reply though, still in my todo list
09:00
<espadrine>
volkmar: you mean, by having a better "name=" de-facto standard?
12:45
<gsnedders>
Exciting times in ES land, trying to subvert what some people want…
13:32
<annevk>
gsnedders: isn't that what usually happens? :)
13:37
<gsnedders>
annevk: No, not in ES land.
13:38
<annevk>
ES4?
13:39
<gsnedders>
Well, that wasn't so much subvertion as just outright refusal to implement something they'd never been involved in. But I was really meaning Harmony onwards.
13:45
<annevk>
gsnedders: so what's going on?
13:46
<gsnedders>
__proto__, and whether it should be an accessor property or not.
13:54
<annevk>
I should invest time in learning JavaScript again at some point
13:59
<annevk>
Ms2ger: re the addendum stuff, writing time != publication time
14:00
<annevk>
e.g. Linköping story was well over a year old
14:00
<annevk>
the /\
18:25
<zewt>
grr no onerror for <link rel=stylesheet> on ios
18:27
<zewt>
at least <script defer> works
18:30
<zewt>
no onerror, yet onload works
18:30
<zewt>
guess i might be able to fudge it with that
18:31
<zewt>
wait, it doesn't work; oh well
19:50
<Hixie>
volkmar: please make sure to reply on the list soon, because right now all the feedback is positive and i'm ready to spec it
20:00
<Yuhong>
BTW, it is unfortunate that it took until just after Gecko introduced Almost Standards Mode before the first draft of CSS 2.1 was introduced.
20:02
<Yuhong>
*published.
20:12
<jackjack>
annevk: espadrine': thanks for answering my question.
22:04
<divya>
annevk: YOU MADE IT TI W3C MEMESS
22:53
<annevk>
divya: hahaha