00:52
<Hixie>
norbert_: the WHATWG spec will track whatever implementors do
10:09
<annevk>
some articles on the fork
10:09
<annevk>
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/22/3175248/html5-fork-w3c-whatwg
10:09
<annevk>
http://www.i-programmer.info/news/191-htmlcss/4531-which-html5-whatwg-and-w3c-split.html
10:10
<annevk>
http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/22/html5-work-splits-into-living-and-snapshot-standards-developers-need-not-standard/
10:10
<annevk>
nothing much interesting though
14:49
<BenoitRen>
Hi all.
14:50
<BenoitRen>
There's an old website I maintain (webmistress vanished from the interwebs more than a decade ago), and I've been looking through it again recently to improve the HTML further. One thing I'm having trouble with is images that get referenced explicitly in the text.
14:51
<BenoitRen>
Like, you have <p><img src="..."></p><p>This picture shows blahblahblah.</p>
14:51
<BenoitRen>
As this is supposed to be a standards compliant mirror of the original site, I don't have much leeway in changing the text. :/
14:53
<BenoitRen>
Example: http://users.skynet.be/fa258499/beyondalgo/story/you_guide.html
15:58
<AryehGregor>
BenoitRen, what's wrong with images that get referenced explicitly in the text?
16:07
<BenoitRen>
AryehGregor: The image might not be showing.
16:08
<AryehGregor>
BenoitRen, . . . and? You can't really do much about that. Provide alt text if that helps.
16:08
<AryehGregor>
But I mean, if the point of something is to talk about a picture, and the picture doesn't display, there's a limited amount you can do about it.
16:08
<BenoitRen>
AryehGregor: But what would I put in the alt text that logically precedes text like "This image shows...".
16:08
<BenoitRen>
?
16:09
<AryehGregor>
I dunno. "Image of ..."
16:09
<BenoitRen>
That's usually bad alt text, though. :/
16:09
<BenoitRen>
alt text should be a replacement for the image.
16:11
<AryehGregor>
If possible.
16:11
<AryehGregor>
Or, rather, to the extent possible.
16:12
<AryehGregor>
A good way to think about it is: "If I were reading this page to someone over the phone, how would I describe it?"
16:12
<AryehGregor>
The answer here would probably be something like "Then there's a picture of X, and after that it says . . ."
16:12
<BenoitRen>
Yeah.
16:13
<AryehGregor>
Sometimes you can't do any better than that.
16:13
<AryehGregor>
In other cases, you might read what the picture says (if it's really text in picture format), or just skip it (if it's decorative), and that's fine too.
16:14
<AryehGregor>
Although I think I read a survey of blind users who say they'd prefer to have decorative images mentioned.
16:14
<AryehGregor>
I guess because that just gives them a better idea of what the page contains.
16:16
<boogyman>
AryehGregor: can you give me an example of a semantically appropriate decorative image
16:16
<AryehGregor>
I don't know what that means.
16:17
<AryehGregor>
So no. :)
16:18
<boogyman>
An example of a decorative image that has meaning in the context of its placement, instead of just there for visual "decorative purposes".
16:18
<boogyman>
CSS and image replacement is around of a reason :| for the latter
16:25
<BenoitRen>
But a decorative image by definition isn't semantic...
22:03
<BenoitRen>
I'm going now. Bye! And thanks. :)
22:25
<david_carlisle>
MikeSmith: If someone opened a bug and it got cloned to WhatWG product, shouldn't they still be the reporter (or at least on the CC list) so that if (to take a random example) Hixie closes it as wontfix, the original reporter gets notified?
22:32
<annevk>
the clone script cannot set the reporter
22:32
<annevk>
does it not cc the original reporter?
22:32
<annevk>
also, you want to ask Hixie, he wrote the scripts
22:38
<david_carlisle>
annevk: apparently not:-)
22:40
<david_carlisle>
OK I thought I saw somewhere they were Mike's scripts, I may push back on the wontfix (of 17798) in which case I'd be contacting Hixie anyway (or I may not bother, too late to decide tonight)