00:00
<TabAtkins>
Hixie: justify-content handles alignment in the main axis, align-items in the cross axis. By default, a flexbox is horizontal, so its main axis is horizontal.
00:07
<Hixie>
TabAtkins: neat
00:07
<Hixie>
pity about the prefixes ;-)
00:08
<TabAtkins>
Hixie: FF's unprefixed stuff is percolating through their releases, Opera is already unprefixed, and we will be shortly.
00:08
<Hixie>
cool
00:08
<TabAtkins>
IE10 is both prefixed and uses an older set of names, because they did a code-freeze about a month before we did a mass-rename.
00:09
<Hixie>
so #container { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; right: 0; bottom: 0; display: -webkit-flex; -webkit-justify-content: center; -webkit-align-items: center; } basically centers kids in a row in the viewport?
00:09
<Hixie>
cool stuff
00:10
<TabAtkins>
Correct.
00:10
<Hixie>
is there a way to center boxes with overflow going to multiple rows?
00:10
<Hixie>
(similar to what whatwg.org has, but with flex)
00:10
<TabAtkins>
-webkit-flex-wrap: wrap;
00:10
<TabAtkins>
It won't balance the rows, but as soon as one fills up they'll break to another one.
00:11
<TabAtkins>
(Balancing is planned for level 2, but it's complicated and wasn't necessary for most cases.)
00:11
<Hixie>
sweet
00:12
<Hixie>
yeah, nice, this is awesome
00:12
<Hixie>
cool, need to read up on this
00:12
<TabAtkins>
flexbox++
00:12
<TabAtkins>
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox
00:12
<TabAtkins>
Pretty happy with how we wrote that spec.
00:36
<Yuhong>
On http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2029
00:36
<Yuhong>
IE10RP
00:37
<Yuhong>
Click Open does nothing.
00:37
<Yuhong>
In IE10 mode.
00:38
<Hixie>
cool, thanks
00:38
<Yuhong>
Same in IE9 mode.
00:38
<Yuhong>
IE8 just tested, same thing.
00:38
<Yuhong>
IE7 too.
00:38
<Hixie>
you have many IEs :-)
00:39
<Yuhong>
Thanks to X-UA-Compatible.
00:39
<Yuhong>
And the developer tools.
00:40
<Hixie>
ah, you mean IE10 in IE7 mode
00:40
<Hixie>
k
00:40
<Yuhong>
Yea, I was just lazy.
00:40
<Hixie>
for the record, especially for this kind of thing (involving navigation) it's not always a given that the modes are exactly equivalent to the original browsers
00:40
<Hixie>
there are definitely cases where they're not exactly the same
00:41
<Hixie>
iirc, <base> handling changed at some point even in the old modes
00:41
<Hixie>
for example
00:41
<Yuhong>
I know. It can be done inadvertently, or it can be done deliberately, eg. CSS visited/link handling for privacy reasons.
00:42
<Yuhong>
Navigation in particular require cooperation from the chrome.
00:44
<erlehmann>
i can test IEs down to one :3
00:44
<erlehmann>
but i won't
00:44
<Yuhong>
I see no reason to anyway.
00:44
<zewt>
use your power for good, not evil
00:48
<erlehmann>
btw, i still do not know how to go further in the media fragments for embedded content thingy
00:48
<Yuhong>
I wonder why IE9 don't use the original jscript.dll in the IE8 and IE7 modes.
00:48
<erlehmann>
should i pick a browser and make an extension?
00:50
<Yuhong>
Of course, this would come at a cost of losing the performance enhancements in jscript9.dll.
01:26
<jwalden>
probably DLL incompatibilities
01:26
<jwalden>
all but certainly those
01:26
<jwalden>
newer JS has a lot of stuff to it that could have been done differently before; I doubt the old interface could be used compatibly
01:45
<zewt>
heh, i hate the "opening windows only on click" thing, because it makes me afraid to click
01:53
<zewt>
all minified javascript needs to be shot into the sun
01:54
<erlehmann>
zewt, use a different browser with keyboard? vimperator or conkeror?
02:27
<erlehmann>
this is using my audio polyfill http://warumnicht.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/wn-15.html
03:27
<JonathanNeal>
hello
07:29
<Krinkle>
Hi, as exercise to get comfortable with spec-language and other interesting things I'm working on a javascript implementation of TreeWalker. However I'm hitting a bug and not sure whether the bug is in Chrome's implementation, the spec or my implementation.
07:29
<Krinkle>
in WebKit, firstChild() is never the root node.
07:30
<Krinkle>
in my interpretation of the spec however, the first call to firstChild() is the root node
07:30
<Krinkle>
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-dom-20120105/#dom-treewalker-currentnode
07:30
<Krinkle>
http://www.w3.org/TR/dom/#concept-traverse-children
07:31
<Krinkle>
The filter accepts the root node as the bitmask matches it and it is a valid result.
07:31
<Krinkle>
it never even accesses .firstChild of the root node, nor does the currentNode pointer changes in this case.
07:31
<Krinkle>
Any ideas?
07:33
<Krinkle>
document.createTreeWalker(document.body, NodeFilter.SHOW_ALL).firstChild()
07:35
<Krinkle>
document.createTreeWalker: currentNode = root; TreeWalker..firstChild: node = currrent = currentNode; FilterNode:: node.nodeType -> FILTER_ACCEPT; TreeWalker..firstChild: return node;
07:44
<Ms2ger>
First of all, you want to look at http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/
07:46
<Krinkle>
This section hasn't changed in years.
07:46
<Krinkle>
I've looked at the dom.spec as well, same phrasing
07:47
<Krinkle>
document.createTreeWalker sets currentNode to root, TreeWalker:firstChild sets node to currentNode, it passes Filter, currentNode is set to the same value and returned.
07:49
<Ms2ger>
Second, Opera is weird
07:50
<Ms2ger>
Third, looks like you're right
07:50
<Krinkle>
Opera?
07:50
<Krinkle>
What does Opera do
07:51
<Ms2ger>
Throw an exception
08:03
<Krinkle>
So basically as-specified TreeWalker has a fundamental flaw: it doesn't walk.
08:03
<Krinkle>
firstChild() and lastChild() both have this error. And all other methods can't be used on the root node.
08:03
<Krinkle>
(prev, next, parent)
08:04
<Ms2ger>
Can you file a bug?
08:04
<Krinkle>
newbie, where? I've been going back and forth between 100s of pages to find the correct version, not sure where to go from here.
08:05
<Ms2ger>
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=WebAppsWG&component=DOM
08:05
<Krinkle>
Thx
08:05
<Krinkle>
btw. since this is "just" a WD, where can I find the "latest stable version"?
08:05
<Krinkle>
I'd expect some kind of canonical link, but a redirect or overview would work too
08:06
<Krinkle>
I found versions with dates in the link and some with "REC-" in them, but since they only point backwards, not forwards, it is hard to find the latest (without also getting into DOM4)
08:10
<Krinkle>
interesting, confirmation mail is From: bugzilla⊙jwo (jessica.w3)
08:14
<Ms2ger>
"Tokenization for unquoted url()s doesn't makes sense to me"
08:24
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20445
08:38
<Stevef>
erlehmann: spec the heuristic, show how it meets the use cases, get implementers to implement etc. FYI uses cases and rationale doc for <main> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Sfaulkne/main-usecases#Introduction
08:41
<Stevef>
JonathanNeal: unrefuted data on use of <div id=main|content> to identify main content area including for skip links and role=main http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Oct/0109.html
09:37
<darobin>
had I known that W3CMemes would be this stimulated, I would've pressed to go to CR earlier
09:40
<Stevef>
darobin: hehe
11:10
<annevk>
it's actually DOM classes these days http://tantek.com/2012/353/b1/why-html-classes-css-class-selectors
11:11
<smaug____>
:)
11:15
<annevk>
darobin: yes, more silly things please!
11:17
<darobin>
annevk: I'll do my best buddy
11:18
<smaug____>
annevk: I managed to break only Thunderbird and Seamonkey with MutationObserserver callback interface removal. But those are Gecko specific, so hopefully (and probably) no web pages.
11:19
<annevk>
wow
11:20
<smaug____>
breaking things is part of our jobs
11:23
<darobin>
MikeSmith: do you know what script does the hg -> github sync for the HTML TS?
11:23
<darobin>
we should not forget to disable it...
11:38
<annevk>
hmm, my traversal algorithm had a bug :/
11:39
<Ms2ger>
I'm afraid it did
11:42
<erlehmann>
oh hello WHATWG
11:42
<erlehmann>
again
11:42
<Ms2ger>
Good morning, erlehmann
11:42
<erlehmann>
is there a web corpus for web compat?
11:43
<erlehmann>
i would want to enumerate if treating #foo&t=10 as fragment similar to #foo could be web compatible
11:49
<darobin>
Ms2ger: you said last night that you'd be interested in helping move things around in the TS?
11:49
<Ms2ger>
Well, interested... :)
11:49
<Ms2ger>
I wouldn't mind
11:49
<darobin>
haha
11:49
<darobin>
right, well, you volunteered of sorts :)
11:50
<darobin>
any preference for how to split up the work?
11:50
<darobin>
unless you want to do it all, of course
11:50
<Ms2ger>
I think I definitely would mind that ;)
11:50
<darobin>
:)
11:51
<Ms2ger>
No preference, really
11:51
<darobin>
ok
11:51
<darobin>
I propose that while we're moving, we keep it all in the temp/robin branch
11:51
<Ms2ger>
Branch? What is this magic? :):
11:51
<darobin>
once the move is done, we can just overwrite master with that
11:51
<darobin>
lulz
11:52
<darobin>
and after that still I'll take care of branching CR
11:52
<darobin>
(and turning submissions into PRs)
11:53
<Ms2ger>
Do you want the current submissions in branches too?
11:53
<darobin>
yes
11:53
<darobin>
well
11:53
<darobin>
I want to take all of approved and make that master
11:53
<darobin>
then take each submission dir and turn that into a pull request
11:53
<darobin>
(from my own fork)
11:54
<darobin>
but we'll cross that bridge when we get there
11:54
<darobin>
re the split, how about I take attributes — fonts and you take foreigncontent — xhtml5
11:54
<darobin>
then after someone finishes his lot we can resplit or whatevs
11:55
Ms2ger
looks
11:55
<Ms2ger>
Do you have a list?
12:00
<erlehmann>
where is the data? https://developers.google.com/webmasters/state-of-the-web/2005/
12:00
<darobin>
Ms2ger: sorry, got dropped
12:00
<darobin>
a list of what?
12:01
<Ms2ger>
The list that goes from attributes to xhtml5
12:01
<darobin>
oh, I was just looking in https://github.com/w3c/html-testsuite/tree/temp/robin/tests/html
12:02
<darobin>
err, no, I really wasn't
12:02
<darobin>
Ms2ger: I was looking here https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html/file/217839a97ea9/tests/approved
12:02
<Ms2ger>
Ah
12:03
<Ms2ger>
OK
12:03
<darobin>
I just split that in twain
12:10
<annevk>
erlehmann: there are some datasets, but none of them is very comprehensive
12:11
<erlehmann>
annevk, a list of urls would suffice. i can spider!
12:11
<annevk>
erlehmann: Google's data is not public
12:11
<erlehmann>
does mozilla have public data?
12:12
<annevk>
erlehmann: http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2012/04/html5-accessibility-chops-data-for-the-masses/ has a "top 10000" sites
12:13
<annevk>
there's another one, but I forgot the links
12:13
<erlehmann>
thx
12:13
<erlehmann>
> (Please only download if you are going to make use of the data)
12:13
<erlehmann>
oh i will!
12:13
<annevk>
I wonder if someone created a wiki page for this
12:16
<annevk>
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Data
12:18
<darobin>
there's also a Community Group about datasets
12:20
<annevk>
http://www.w3.org/community/webobservatory/ ?
12:20
<annevk>
not sure that's quite the same
12:21
<erlehmann>
i'll use the 10000 html files first
12:25
<Ms2ger>
darobin, so, on your branch, where are the tests?
12:28
<MikeSmith>
yeah I know what script does that sync
12:29
<MikeSmith>
have to be ssh'ed into the dvcs.w3.org server to do it
12:30
<MikeSmith>
to add similar setup for another repo
12:30
<MikeSmith>
or to modify it
12:31
<darobin>
Ms2ger: on my branch, there are no tests :)
12:31
<Ms2ger>
!
12:31
<Ms2ger>
We're done, then? :)
12:31
<darobin>
yay!
12:31
<darobin>
I just nuked everything; I thought I'd move stuff from the hg repo
12:33
<Ms2ger>
That seems suboptimal
12:33
<darobin>
annevk: no, I meant http://www.w3.org/community/data-driven-standards/
12:33
<darobin>
Ms2ger: well, mv path/to/hg/stuff or git mv oldpath newpath didn't strike me as a big diff
12:34
<darobin>
but I can easily regenerate a repo in which the old structure has the tests in old-tests or some such
12:34
<Ms2ger>
The difference is that one preserves history and the other doesn't, no?
12:34
<darobin>
true
12:37
<annevk>
darobin: added to the wiki
12:37
<darobin_>
(well, I'll finish eating first, but after that it won't take a second)
12:37
<Ms2ger>
You sound French :)
12:37
<MikeSmith>
cheese course
12:38
<darobin_>
I am indeed eating a meal I got from the boulangerie next door
12:53
<annevk>
DOM now depends on HTML
12:53
<annevk>
Looking forward to hearing again about modularization
12:54
<SimonSapin>
annevk: how do you think we should compare URLs to break @import cycles?
12:55
<annevk>
SimonSapin: serialize the parsed object sans fragment identifier
12:55
<annevk>
SimonSapin: compare that
12:55
<annevk>
SimonSapin: that's what happens elsewhere in the platform, e.g. for <iframe>
12:55
<annevk>
at least per Hixie
12:56
<darobin>
hey we can have modularisation — it's just that we have this humongous blob as one of the modules :)
12:56
<SimonSapin>
annevk: makes sense. Thanks
12:56
<Ms2ger>
Which blob? "The Web"?
12:56
<darobin>
heh
12:56
<SimonSapin>
annevk: that implies normalizing percent-encoding, right?
12:57
<darobin>
actually, I've been meaning (as an idle research project that will likely never happen) to trace all the cross references to see if any logical modules appear
12:57
<Ms2ger>
Maybe we should merge the webapps/html test suites too
12:57
<darobin>
we probably could
12:59
<Ms2ger>
On another note, why not move html/canvas2d/microdata to the top level instead of putting them in tests/?
12:59
<darobin>
mmm, no strong opinion from me
13:01
<Ms2ger>
Alright, move them up, then :)
13:02
<Stevef>
erlemhann:note there is about 100 google search pages in there that are all the same (but from dif URLS)
13:03
<erlehmann>
stevef, thx
13:03
<Stevef>
darobin: there is also http://www.w3.org/community/webdevdata/ marcosc: stareted it recently but no much happened as yet
13:04
<Stevef>
erlehmann: no problem
13:04
<darobin_>
looks to me like some of those CGs could be merged
13:04
<SimonSapin>
annevk: actually I already have something like this in WeasyPrint to decide if an hyperlink is internal or external (they’re represented differently in PDF)
13:04
darobin_
shakes fist at crappy network
13:18
<annevk>
SimonSapin: no it doesn't normalize percent-encoding
13:22
<annevk>
darobin_: whenever I look at modularization of stuff I don't really see a way out
13:22
<annevk>
darobin_: but your CEO seems to think it's possible so hey, must work!
13:22
<annevk>
darobin_: although Fetch should prolly be factored out
13:26
<darobin>
annevk: a few things can be factored out, and I think that if we really tried we could do more of it, but the big question is cost
13:30
<erlehmann>
currently finding out IDs of elements
13:31
<erlehmann>
using this with a directory of html files http://mister-muffin.de/p/7aN4
13:31
<erlehmann>
as “./fragmentids.py html > html-id-list”
13:33
<annevk>
darobin_: such as?
13:35
darobin_
being driven mad by this net connection
13:36
MikeSmith
tries to lend darobin_ some network
13:37
<darobin_>
thanks man
13:37
<darobin_>
there's plenty of it, just in discrete chunks
13:42
<darobin_>
Ms2ger: so one advantage of having the spec dirs under "tests" is that I can point the root of a web server at that dir and not worry about also exposing tools and other such stuff
13:42
<darobin_>
but that's not a super strong case
13:42
<darobin_>
so if you want them at the root, speak inside of the next minute
13:42
<darobin_>
or forever hold your peace
13:43
<darobin>
Ms2ger: the branch with history is temp/new
13:51
<darobin>
Ms2ger: ok, I put a moving.txt file in there with assignments for movign
13:51
<darobin>
obviously, you don't have to do all of that, it's just that I won't do what's in your basket for now
13:57
<Ms2ger>
OK
14:06
<Ms2ger>
Oh man
14:07
<Ms2ger>
I forgot how awful those MS tests were
14:09
<darobin>
yeah, I hadn't seen them in a while and I'm feeling exactly the same...
14:09
<Ms2ger>
darobin, I think I'm going to get rid of the subdirs in syntax/parsing
14:09
<darobin>
Ms2ger: do as makes sense to you
14:10
<Ms2ger>
Hmm
14:10
<darobin>
but if you could keep a list of the changes that you make to the tree I'd appreciate it
14:10
<Ms2ger>
Do I need to create a new contains.json then?
14:10
<darobin>
that way I can tailor the script to keep them up to date
14:10
<darobin>
no, don't both
14:10
<darobin>
bother
14:10
<Ms2ger>
OK
14:10
<darobin>
if you tell me that this and that dir are only level 2, I'll make the script know about that
14:10
<darobin>
and it'll generate the contains.json
14:10
<Ms2ger>
Sounds good
14:11
<darobin>
metadata is only good if you don't have to write it
14:11
<darobin>
the stats on how many tests have link@rel=help in there being a good proof if ever we needed one that humans cannot be entrusted with metadata
14:12
<darobin>
once we're done moving I'll also make a script that fixes all the broken links in there, gonna be many
14:12
<darobin>
Ms2ger: so don't bother about broken stuff
14:13
<darobin>
mmmmm, actually that script could be problematic if I don't want to break things (e.g. that test links)
14:13
<darobin>
I'll figure out a way
14:14
<Ms2ger>
Oh, woop
14:14
<Ms2ger>
s
14:14
<Ms2ger>
darobin, can you give me push access? :)
14:18
<darobin>
heh
14:20
<darobin>
Ms2ger: do you have push rights to any of the repos in https://github.com/w3c ?
14:20
darobin
can't seem to find you
14:20
<Ms2ger>
Don't think so
14:22
<darobin>
I've added you to "HTML WG"
14:22
darobin
MUAHAHAHAHA
14:22
<darobin>
anyhoo, you should now have access
14:23
<Ms2ger>
Noooo :)
14:23
<hober>
:)
14:24
<darobin>
looking at some of these tests, I hesitate between truly hardcore and very soothing music
14:25
<Ms2ger>
data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAMgAAADNCAYAAAD9lT8tAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJbWFnZVJlYWR5ccllPAAAolBJREFUeNrsfQeAHWW1/2/a7W33bi/JJptsNr2HFEILNVLFx1NREZUHz/fUZ33+7YhYn9grdgVRERCQXgIhhQRIb5u6vZfb25T/Od/M3d0UEFSaZMLHLXvv3JlvTvn9zjnfGfUmrMLJ7XWxNdKYS+NOGtbJ6XhlNvnkFLxutrfSWHxSOU4qyMnt+G0Bjf9Ho/vkVJxUkJPb0dt8Gn+i4adx5OR0nFSQV+q8Q68TWHUPjck04jS6TorsSQV5pbZLaHyGhvQaPLZFNP5IZOMWA1at8x57j0MnRfakgrwSm0njMI0v0LifRtNr4Jg4SvV2GnfTeIoO8N8sWHLFdBcUTe
14:25
<Ms2ger>
jwHhpDJ0X2ld3UN/C5b6SxgcZ5NB6i8QEHzrwSm+Rwitk0znQ8xkIaE3RYpL0WAiEVp14fgUSffPB/BulCSfefFNeTCvJKbIrjMdgiP0zjVBoTafyOxkdo/Pyf/HsajUoaDfw7BJua6XEJ7MhUmLyExnFbw9GaskYNDWd7Mf+6IErmuXDXeb28j37H053cTirIK2K9/5OGi8ZWGnl+Ltmk/ackrMP0eMc/sP8wjTk0ZtG+FhGHaCSPUC1BaiTNVGT6eYmeyIokVNUTUVFCfymb5ULtcjdqlrkRmKKJHY3syKN9bZY+Jv2RXvadFNeTCvJKbDrssOmTNBI8BxbNQmyGhNBeS5bzQkkG6f0nXsI+OYG3gsa59N0lpBBhgkqqiyheOQl7aKKKUIOGsukagnUKAjUKfJUy3GFSF1mC4pYgeyRbTXXaQ5oYiEfGlh8mkMmY5IIkH+37az
14:25
<Ms2ger>
SqYScKLYdD7aKxl8Zuh1e9EsbFOqkg//rb0zQO0JgiIhWEbwbOUDC0lJjyT/UoScAP6e2VL4IU/xuN9zBMI08RYAlViTRUzXZhyiU+VC10o2yGhsAklf9gy5aJccORNX5gxSg4r/0ShrfmsPdPKch2kO3q4seYn1iOpNpD6qfH7fT0MRp/prH/ZVKWd9LocWDpSQX5F98YVj1eVBCJJM4VA45cR3Bnq4XoJmMG6cwNDnE/kbDNpPENGhewsBboI8FSFY3nezHr6gCqFrmgkHcQDLso+LkXaXg5rkif3XBDDIlBg8k57d8S/9yKgmCFAlmTYNJ+s8Mme5hyUppVpEirCLF9hhRmq2RHwjY5RqDtH5wrhqLvo/EVGm9+I0KsSTS8zmTm30Dn/hSNa4q4wdNDIkgwp+1qgkN7TShx62oS6V/Sn5455ntvo/FtGhUsuC5iFQuuCmEeke
14:25
<Ms2ger>
ryxS5bnfL0zQwN6yWiET4Qr4Jt34phxx0p4TPcIQXTV3sx4QwPwTQFflIQxVGQzCApCCnJyP4C+rbk0bu14B05WFimm9Yy8mjMXQ7S2ONAsY0OHDvswEzjbwQWGM5dROMKGqc53332jaggj9KootFB47cOPt/7Bjj3Q46QKCyIapImIychOUvGwKkyqu8zvPTHD9Pfrxz3nWtp/IjEXuJwbPUsN1beGEHDRV5buNPW34/Q+fs+GQf/lMSazwyBCAwWXB3Goo+GEJxAh+h2Ulam8xv0+RK5mOO0xG/rpJQDOws48mgG7Wty9DzfGBvWG0lJLqRh0aez9OGk41UOO885Q38EdpCCk5IRJ8hQBzsUXdxu57jBGy6icxNWFYpQq0CzTpehR4H1e3r5ffxrZ26bHeNAlJkEa6WKfd9wQ85a8O82MeO/c5BNAYwWOCT4XBp/odcets5z3h
14:25
<Ms2ger>
7AGV8rgbtOtUm1NU7Q8RKpLAeeiZQfuj2Fe67qh0F+/E0/i2LaVQHb1heso4EeP7dMG45J8nhCYnMdvpp0Hn1b8+hYm8PhBzLofjqHXMqC4cA1yb7WzuGOHbTYNb3Wjj5CNiSz3iCG8+hLcx4mv8+AFJ68OIOpy+KItRuBdF5bRpj2SsnGn+yeM/+i58/woZIFJdMgY+gcDQrZ2E
14:26
<Ms2ger>
... Oops
14:28
<darobin>
lol
14:29
<zewt>
i don't think irc supports data:
14:29
<darobin>
#whatwg — the best place for Ms2ger pr0m
14:29
<darobin>
err pr0n
14:30
<Ms2ger>
What? No, I don't want to go to prom with you!
14:49
<Ms2ger>
Hrm, xhtml5
14:50
<darobin>
Ms2ger: in case it helps, in tools/scripts/id2path.js is a script; you give it an ID and it returns the path
14:50
<Ms2ger>
<i>Note - This test checks for User Agent requirement as per HTML5 spec NOT the author requirement</i>
14:50
<Ms2ger>
Yes, thank you, MS...
14:51
<Ms2ger>
darobin, the main issue is finding the ID :)
14:51
<darobin>
yeah I know, but some of the file in there have that metadata — at least those can be processed faster :)
14:52
<darobin>
the tests are littered with that statement :)
14:52
<Ms2ger>
I love how area_noref.xhtml is a test for no*h*ref
14:56
<darobin>
I was wondering if this wouldn't be a good moment to rename files
14:56
<darobin>
I mean, since we're moving them anyway
14:56
<darobin>
in audio a lot of them are prefixed with audio_
14:56
<darobin>
which is daft
14:57
<Ms2ger>
Yeah
14:57
<Ms2ger>
Except for audio_001.htm, I think that's slightly better than 001.htm
15:00
<darobin>
yeah I guess
15:00
<darobin>
it's a terrible name either way :)
15:01
<darobin>
then again audio_001/2 didn't end up with audio_003
15:02
<Ms2ger>
Hrm
15:02
<Ms2ger>
When an img element, object element, or input element with a type attribute in the Image Button state is contained within a hyperlink and has a border attribute whose value, when parsed using the rules for parsing non-negative integers, is found to be a number greater than zero, the user agent is expected to...
15:02
<Ms2ger>
Does that mean border='' only works inside a hyperlink?
15:06
<darobin>
I thought border did nothing outside of a link anyway?
15:06
<darobin>
but then again, the only role img@border ever had was as something everyone set to 0 in their template
15:07
<Ms2ger>
http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/approved/xhtml5/img_border_percent.xhtml
15:07
<Ms2ger>
What's up here, then?
15:08
Ms2ger
moves it back to submissions
15:10
<darobin>
the test runs correctly in implems
15:10
<darobin>
I don't see why it's in XHTML though...
15:10
<darobin>
and I can't be arsed to look up @border in the spec, it brings back too many bad memories :)
15:10
<darobin>
good things those audio tests are being moved to media-elements — half of them apply to video too...
15:25
<Ms2ger>
Gah
15:25
<darobin>
you don't say
15:26
<Ms2ger>
darobin, do tell, how do I get that last commit out of the repo? :)
15:27
<darobin>
you mean revert something you pushed?
15:27
<Ms2ger>
Yeah
15:28
<darobin>
git revert deadb33f... should work
15:28
<darobin>
that's if you want to keep history
15:29
<Ms2ger>
Not really
15:29
<darobin>
if you did something particularly stupid like commit your credit card number, you'll want history rewriting tricks
15:29
<darobin>
well, unless there's a very strong reason to rewrite history in a shared repo, really don't :)
15:29
<Ms2ger>
Hmm, I seem to have already managed to destroy your base64 change
15:29
<darobin>
that's not nice of you
15:30
<darobin>
just do a revert
15:30
<Ms2ger>
Which doesn't make sense, because I still have it locally
15:30
<darobin>
it creates a commit that's the opposite of the one that you don't like
15:31
<Ms2ger>
And now I can't pull...
15:31
Ms2ger
clones again
15:31
<darobin>
it's quite fascinating to see how you have the same problems with git that I always have with hg :)
15:32
<Ms2ger>
This always happens when I use git
15:33
<darobin>
Ms2ger: it reminds me when I used to work for Joost
15:33
<darobin>
I had a windows laptop that I only ever used for testing, very limited stuff (checkout, start the app, see that it works, move on)
15:33
<darobin>
it was a perfect clone of the same setup everyone else had
15:33
<darobin>
but mine would always get weird problems, like losing the key to encrypted dirs and the such
15:34
<darobin>
they changed the hardware three time, but still the same
15:34
<darobin>
they eventually figured out that it was a fundamental incompatibility between me and windows, inscribed in the laws of the universe
15:36
<Ms2ger>
Boo, windows :)
15:39
<Ms2ger>
Okay, base64 is back
15:40
<odinho>
Ms2ger: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2030 waat is it? :|
15:41
<Ms2ger>
odinho, it was a sad unicorn
15:53
<Ms2ger>
darobin, stole a few of yours, btw
15:55
<darobin>
Ms2ger: cool, not canvas I hope
15:56
<Ms2ger>
No
15:56
<darobin>
good
15:56
<darobin>
because there's fuckloads of those and they're taking me a little while ot move :)
15:56
<Ms2ger>
Yeah
15:56
<Ms2ger>
They need an update, too
15:56
<darobin>
indeed
15:57
<darobin>
but that will wait a bit :)
16:05
<Ms2ger>
ssh: Could not resolve hostname github.com: Name or service not known
16:05
<Ms2ger>
Kris is right after all!
16:07
<hober>
I take it I should be happy I'm not on public-html-testsuite?
16:08
<Ms2ger>
You should be happy you're not my terminal
16:08
<Ms2ger>
Because I'd have to beat you :)
16:14
<SimonSapin>
does firefox have something like about:memory but for CPU usage?
16:15
<Ms2ger>
Not AFAIK
16:15
<Ms2ger>
Sounds difficult to do, too
16:16
<Ms2ger>
darobin, going to do dataset too
16:19
<darobin>
Ms2ger: ok, that's the last one, right?
16:19
darobin
just finished canvas
16:19
<Ms2ger>
Yep
16:19
<darobin>
did you end up only limiting to 2 inside syntax/parsing?
16:19
<Ms2ger>
Yeah
16:19
<darobin>
sweet
16:23
<Ms2ger>
Okay, looks like we're done
16:23
<Ms2ger>
Worked with git for a couple of hours and only hosed my repo once... Today was a good day.
16:24
<darobin>
hahaha
16:24
<darobin>
I sense that you are coming over to the dark side
16:24
darobin
high-fives Ms2ger
16:24
<darobin>
thanks a lot for that
16:24
Ms2ger
accidentally smacks darobin in the face
16:24
<darobin>
the update script now takes depth limitations into account and all, tpoo
16:24
<Ms2ger>
Np :)
16:25
<JonathanNeal>
good morning from southern california
16:25
<darobin>
hehe :)
16:27
<erlehmann>
1039 web % grep '&' html-attrib-id -c 2012-12-19 17:27:26 erlehmann pts/12
16:27
<erlehmann>
4
16:28
<erlehmann>
1045 web % grep '#' html-attrib-href | cut -d'#' -f2 | grep '&t=' -c
16:28
<erlehmann>
0
16:29
<erlehmann>
IDs using „&“ are stuff like „home_header_Food & Wine
16:29
<erlehmann>
bestseller_Clothing & Accessories
16:29
<erlehmann>
16:29
<erlehmann>
well
16:30
<erlehmann>
1058 web % grep ';' html-attrib-id -c 2012-12-19 17:30:22 erlehmann pts/12
16:30
<erlehmann>
0
16:31
<erlehmann>
this “grep '#' html-attrib-href | cut -d'#' -f2 | grep ';' -c” finds only JavaScript URIs
16:31
<erlehmann>
i'll summarize my findings on the list
16:34
<Ms2ger>
darobin, what kind of broken links were you seeing, btw?
16:35
<darobin>
Ms2ger: a bunch of things refer to common/*
16:35
<Ms2ger>
Ah, hmm
16:35
<darobin>
some refer to green-100x50.png
16:35
<darobin>
there might be a few others
16:36
<darobin>
$ grep -r common/ tests/* | wc -l
16:36
<darobin>
1657
16:36
<darobin>
"a bunch"
16:36
<darobin>
$ grep -r green-100 tests/* | wc -l
16:36
<darobin>
411
16:37
<darobin>
I see a lot of <script src="../../resources/testharnessreport.js"></script> too
16:37
<darobin>
always in files that have <script src="/resources/testharness.js"></script> right above it
16:37
<darobin>
which, ahm, how shall I put this?
16:37
<Ms2ger>
Kris
16:38
<darobin>
anyway, I'm going to fix those pretty quickly I reckon
16:38
<Ms2ger>
I fixed one of these
16:38
<darobin>
ok
16:38
<darobin>
but don't bother, I'll fix them with automation
16:38
<darobin>
Everybody Stand Back!
16:39
<darobin>
(ob https://xkcd.com/208/)
16:39
Ms2ger
stands well back
16:43
<JonathanNeal>
Nice.
16:49
<Stevef>
JonathanNeal: for you from earlier (in case you missed) http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20121219#l-326
16:50
<JonathanNeal>
thanks Stevef, reading
16:51
<Stevef>
JonathanNeal: also see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Sfaulkne/main-usecases#Introduction if it is of interest
16:52
<JonathanNeal>
Wow, just finished the first one. That's a pretty strong correlation.
16:56
<Stevef>
JonathanNeal: the data set is freely available for anyone to analyse and provide argument against...
17:00
<Stevef>
JonathanNeal: I also drilled down into a random sample of the pages that use id=main|content to look at what elemtn with the id contains https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlVP5_A996c5dHozOW14RkF4NEdEUFRvemxCZ2I4Z3c
17:06
<JonathanNeal>
Stevef: one question, regarding "The <main> element is a semantic element not unlike other new semantic elements such as <header>, <footer>, <aside>, <article>, <nav>, or <section>. Thus, it can also serve other uses where the main content on a Web page/Web application needs to be identified." Doesn't this give it the more liberal definition, e.g. allowing multiple <main> elements within a document?
17:13
<Stevef>
JonaThanNeal: don't think so the spec is pretty clear on that
17:14
<JonathanNeal>
Okay.
17:15
<Stevef>
JonaThanNeal: the 'other uses' Silvia's words , refers to utility for search engines as a styling hook, etc
17:16
<Stevef>
search engines, as a styling hook etc
17:23
<JonathanNeal>
Yes, I kept reading it incorrectly, associating it with sectioning groups, like <header>, <footer>, <aside>, <article>, <nav>, or <section>.
17:39
<Ms2ger>
Oh look, CSS is discussing case-sensitivity again
17:40
<Ms2ger>
... or not
17:48
<tantek>
Ms2ger - gotta pay (play?) more attention ;)
17:51
<Ms2ger>
sylvaing [IE]: Our browser sticks around a bit longer than the average
17:51
<Ms2ger>
That's a late submission for the understatement of the year right there
18:01
<tantek>
Ms2ger: "but we decided that last week" "no reason not to requestion it this week" ;)
18:02
<Ms2ger>
Sounds like the CSSWG
18:03
<jwalden>
there's always time to discuss it in committee!
20:29
<TabAtkins>
I know SVG was approved over standing FOs. Wasn't there a big XML spec that got similar treatment? Any others?
20:30
<Hixie>
http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1155235213&count=1
20:30
<Hixie>
(it wasn't just standing FOs)
20:31
<Hixie>
dunno about xml though
20:31
<Hixie>
many specs went from LC to PR without a real CR, though
20:31
<Hixie>
technically though the process document does let you not bother with CR if you don't feel like it
20:31
<Hixie>
and you can ignore FOs if the director or his agents say you can
20:32
<TabAtkins>
Right, the director can let you ignore anything. Just because a process violation is legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. ^_^
20:32
<Hixie>
just because it's not a process violation doesn't mean it's a good idea either :-D
20:33
<shepazu>
you can only skip CR if you have satisfied all the CR exit criteria already… seems like a good optimization to me
20:33
<Hixie>
by "skip CR" i mean not bother proving interop
20:33
<shepazu>
nope, process doesn't allow that
20:34
<Ms2ger>
Hey, the web has proven interop
20:34
<Hixie>
shepazu: then how did SVG ever get to REC?
20:34
<shepazu>
Hixie: we have a stricter definition of interop now than we had back then
20:34
<shepazu>
times change
20:34
<Hixie>
yet the process hasn't hanged
20:34
<Hixie>
changed
20:35
<Hixie>
so either the process was being violated then, or it's still allowing the looser definition now
20:35
<shepazu>
the process isn't law… it's guidelines, to be interpreted
20:35
<Hixie>
clearly
20:35
<shepazu>
yup, clearly
20:35
Hixie
shall "interpret" it to mean "stop bothering with the w3c"
20:36
<shepazu>
your call :)
20:36
<shepazu>
the rest of us will still act like a society and work together :P
20:36
<Ms2ger>
Ha. Ha. Ha.
20:36
<shepazu>
you should make one of those separatist petitions :)
20:36
<Ms2ger>
You clearly aren't in webapps if you think that
20:37
<shepazu>
Ms2ger: who says people in a society always get along?
20:37
<Hixie>
shepazu: i did: http://whatwg.org/C
20:37
<Ms2ger>
You said something about "work together"
20:38
<shepazu>
Hixie: yup, you did a good job with that
20:38
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: There are tests? Interesting, can you tell me more / point me somewhere?
20:38
<Hixie>
Ms2ger: syria is a "society" too
20:38
<shepazu>
it really woke w3c up
20:38
<Ms2ger>
shepazu, not for long
20:39
<Ms2ger>
Krinkle, I don't know if there are good ones for traversal
20:39
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: What kind of tests?
20:39
<shepazu>
Ms2ger: w3c is a much better, more open environment than when I first got involved… always room for growth, of course, even with WHATWG
20:39
<Hixie>
more open, except that the flagship wg has two lists so private even the members don't see the archives
20:40
<Ms2ger>
Krinkle, http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMCore/tests/ has some
20:40
<shepazu>
Hixie: I personally believe that 1) all w3c wgs should operate in the public and 2) the HTML WG is a mess (which you helped to create)
20:41
<Hixie>
on that we can agree
20:41
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: Interesting, that's exactly what I was looking for.
20:42
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: I'm currently writing QUnit tests for my project, I'll let you know when I'm ready.
20:42
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: What I have so far is very similar to view-source:http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMCore/tests/submissions/Ms2ger/Document-createTreeWalker.html
20:43
<Krinkle>
and qunit's syntax is similar to what you're using there
20:44
<Ms2ger>
You're always welcome to use testharness.js and submit your tests :)
20:44
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: Are they also on github?
20:45
<Krinkle>
(the tests)
20:45
<Ms2ger>
Doesn't look like it
20:45
<Ms2ger>
MikeSmith, why not? :)
20:45
<Krinkle>
I can't figure from http://w3c-test.org/ where it is stored
20:46
<Krinkle>
Ah, http://w3c-test.org/webapps/README
20:46
<Krinkle>
Right, github is the mirror.
20:46
<Ms2ger>
Sorry, http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webapps
20:47
<Krinkle>
How do you take submissions? pull requests via github and submitted internally by those with commit access to hg? Or some other process?
20:47
<Krinkle>
oh, lol, you created those tests just a few hours ago
20:47
<Ms2ger>
This one, yes, because I was looking at your bug :)
20:48
<Krinkle>
webkit has -1 for SHOW_ALL, strange.
20:49
<Krinkle>
effectively the same as 0xFFFFFFFF in bitmasks ? Not sure.
20:49
<Ms2ger>
Yeah
20:49
<Krinkle>
bitmasks always confuse me, I've been putting it off for a long time. I want to understand them, but usuaully avoid them.
20:49
<Krinkle>
my js implementation of tree walker took about 2 hours, but the bit mask bit of acceptNode was like an hour of that.
20:50
<Ms2ger>
The bitmask arguments are 'unsigned long', which wraps modulo 2^32
20:50
<Krinkle>
That makes sense.
20:58
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: btw, whatToShow defaulting to SHOW_ALL, currently the spec doesn't say (and anything else is casted to 0)
20:59
<Ms2ger>
It does in the IDL block
20:59
<Ms2ger>
TreeWalker createTreeWalker(Node root, optional unsigned long whatToShow = 0xFFFFFFFF, optional NodeFilter? filter = null);
20:59
<Krinkle>
Ah, in createTreeWalker, not in TreeWalker itself
20:59
<Krinkle>
Okay
20:59
<Ms2ger>
Right
20:59
<Krinkle>
I didn't look in interface Document yet
21:00
<Krinkle>
thanks
21:00
<Ms2ger>
Np
21:02
<jgraham>
Ms2ger, darobin: you guys are awesome
21:04
<jgraham>
In much the same way that QUnit isn't
21:04
<Ms2ger>
Heh
21:05
<jgraham>
(fun story that I probably told before: we run all the jQuery tests in Opera. On the 31st of every month a whole bunch of date tests fail because apparently the person who wrote them didn't really understand how months worked)
21:06
<jgraham>
(not QUnit's fault of course, but a good way of knowing when it's the end of a 31-day month)
21:06
<jgraham>
(if you work for Opera)
21:06
<jgraham>
(although maybe we his those results by now)
21:07
<Ms2ger>
I would've assumed someone would have sent jquery a patch by now
21:19
<Krinkle>
Ms2ger: jQuery core? Or a jQuery plugin
21:19
<Krinkle>
Not sure how dates are relevant to jQuery
21:19
Krinkle
is a jQuery member.
21:19
<Ms2ger>
301 jgraham
21:31
<jgraham>
Well it might be an old version
21:31
<jgraham>
I don't remember
21:33
<jgraham>
We went through a phase of importing every version of major libraries' testsuites since the old version is still found in the wild after the new release
21:33
<jgraham>
Which is sometimes a major problem (c.f. TinyMCE)
21:33
<Ms2ger>
True
22:18
<jsbell>
odinho: ping?
22:18
<jsbell>
sicking: ping?
22:19
<sicking>
jsbell: pong
22:20
<jsbell>
sicking: IndexedDB question: would you expect a blocked event to fire against a deleteDatabase's request if deleteDatabase() was called during a "versionchange" transaction (i.e. while another connection was opening) ?
22:20
<sicking>
jsbell: yes
22:20
<jsbell>
IE10 fires blocked. FF17/19 doesn't fire blocked.
22:20
<jsbell>
Cool. I would as well, just checking.
22:21
<sicking>
jsbell: i'll file a FF bug, thanks for finding this
22:21
<jsbell>
No problem. Chrome doesn't but I'm fixing that.
22:21
<sicking>
jsbell: by the way, latest released version(s) of chrome uses the new version API, right?
22:22
<sicking>
someone poked me about it on twitter
22:23
<jsbell>
sicking: yes. 23 (stable) has it with some caveats around open w/o an explicit version (we fall into a back-compat path); 24 (beta) should be conformant
22:23
<sicking>
jsbell: awesome
22:24
<jsbell>
sicking: no kidding, sooooo much cleaner now
22:25
<sicking>
jsbell: by the way, we're using IDB heavily in B2G. It's the backend for our SMS, settings and address book databases. And several of the built-in apps use it too
22:25
<sicking>
B2G == Firefox OS
22:25
<jsbell>
cool.
22:25
<jsbell>
sicking: your impl is still on top of SQLite, right?
22:26
<sicking>
yeah, it likely won't change very soon. Too many other things are higher priority
22:26
<sicking>
might become a priority if someone can show that leveldb would give us significantly better performance
22:26
<sicking>
i think it would be faster, just a question of how much
22:26
<jsbell>
Heh. I was running performance comparisons and FF17 / Chrome25 / IE10 are all pretty close.
22:27
<sicking>
and apparently there are some nice things coming in sqlite4
22:27
<sicking>
jsbell: oh, cool
22:27
<sicking>
jsbell: oh, and we're going to support IDB for both temporary and permanent storage. Like you guys' filesystem stuff
22:28
<jsbell>
Nice. We still need to tackle Blobs in IDB.
22:28
<jsbell>
(speaking of using it for filesystem-like things...)
22:28
<sicking>
jsbell: we just landed the backend to support it. Next is adding the ability to control if from pages: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=785884#c3
22:29
<sicking>
yeah, looking forward to you guys supporting that :)
22:30
<jsbell>
.. and we'd discussed similar things around having open take a dict, for scoped storage, but haven't had to wire it up yet. I'll bookmark that.
22:30
<sicking>
"scoped storage"?
22:30
<sicking>
like session storage?
22:31
<jsbell>
temporary vs. permanent etc.
22:31
<sicking>
ah
22:31
<sicking>
yeah
23:16
<Hixie>
sortable tables...
23:16
<Hixie>
should the magic be on <th> or <col>?
23:17
<Hixie>
<col> has the advantage of making more sense, <th> the advantage of having half a chance of being in the markup
23:17
<Hixie>
i'm thinking <th>
23:19
<TabAtkins>
<col>!
23:19
<TabAtkins>
You can always add it if you want the functionality.
23:20
<TabAtkins>
Well, wait. Are we only sorting columns?
23:21
<JonathanNeal>
awesome
23:21
<Hixie>
TabAtkins: i hadn't even considered we might want to sort rows
23:21
<Hixie>
TabAtkins: let's say yes, just columns
23:22
<Hixie>
man colspan/rowspan are going to make this unpleasant
23:23
<Hixie>
ugh, <col span>
23:23
<Hixie>
let's not use <col> for this
23:23
<Hixie>
using <th> makes styling easier too, we can put a pseudo-class on the <Th>
23:23
<Hixie>
i'm thinking <th>.sort() should only work if the <th> has no colspan="" (rowspan is fine)
23:40
<Hixie>
anyone want to take a crack at figuring out how you sort this table? http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2034
23:42
<Hixie>
i'm thinking that any sequence of spanning rows should get treated as one immutable row, sorted by the top cell of the relevant column
23:43
<Hixie>
where a sequence of spanning rows is defined as follows: a row A is in the same sequence as a row B if there is a cell that spans A and B
23:49
<TabAtkins>
+ transitivity, right?
23:49
<TabAtkins>
So that table is sorted as one row?
23:50
<TabAtkins>
Oh wait, duh, that's per-column.
23:51
<TabAtkins>
Or, hm. No, you still have to do cross-column checking.
23:53
<Hixie>
yeah, that table would be one row
23:53
<Hixie>
row sequence
23:57
<mnot>
has there been any discussion of giving control to authors over whether images with display: none are downloaded?