00:02
<astearns>
odd that 'shown' is more common than 'web' or 'link'
00:03
<dgorbik>
Hixie: hello. There is a WebVTT requirment "The 'display' property on WebVTT Ruby Objects must be set to 'ruby'." But for just ruby elements in HTML we have those styles: "text-indent: 0;". Should they be different? Or probably display: ruby is not implemented yet in WebKit?
00:03
<Hixie>
TabAtkins: do i have to say anything for :user-error in the HTML spec?
00:04
<Hixie>
dgorbik: text-indent doesn't matter in webvtt's case because it doesn't apply and thus can't be set to anything but zero
00:04
<Hixie>
dgorbik: the problem in HTML is that text-indent inherits, and so anything that's block-like in a phrasing context has to have its text-indent overridden back to 0 so it doesn't get its ancestor's indent
00:05
<dgorbik>
Hixie: then why don't we set display: ruby for HTML?
00:07
<Hixie>
we do
00:07
<Hixie>
search for "ruby {"
00:07
<Hixie>
the first match is where it's set to display:ruby
00:08
<Hixie>
wait, where did you find it set text-indent to zero in the spec?
00:08
<dgorbik>
Hixie: I don't see that in html.css
00:08
<Hixie>
it probably should, but i can't find that line...
00:08
<Hixie>
what's html.css?
00:08
<dgorbik>
No, I've found that in html.css
00:08
<Hixie>
oh
00:08
<Hixie>
i thought you were asking about the spec
00:08
<dgorbik>
these are default css styles in webkit for elements
00:08
<Hixie>
i'm not a webkit developer, so i've no idea
00:08
<dgorbik>
I am now trying to understand whether we have to set display: ruby for html elements as well.
00:09
<dgorbik>
Hixie: so the only thing I need — display: ruby should be set for HTML elements as well, not just WebVTT ruby elements?
00:10
<Hixie>
according to the spec, yes, but i have no idea how webkit implements ruby
00:10
<Hixie>
if it implements ruby
00:10
<Hixie>
maybe webkit has special optimisations to do it differently internally
00:10
<dgorbik>
Hixie: okay, thanks, I will try to find that
00:10
<Hixie>
the spec just says what the results have to be like, not what the implementation strategy has to be
00:10
<gsnedders>
Hixie: Why do you not know everything?
00:29
<esprehn_>
dgorbik: I don't think there's a ruby display type
00:30
<dgorbik>
esprehn_: is it being emulated somehow or just not implemented?
00:30
<esprehn_>
dgorbik: oh I see, css3-ruby specifies specific display types
00:31
<esprehn_>
dgorbik: webkit has a hack in RenderObject::createObject that checks the qname and looks at display and produces either an inline ruby or a block ruby
00:31
<esprehn_>
css3 ruby
00:32
<esprehn_>
err, css3 ruby's display types seem broken since it doesn't support block and inline modes
00:32
<esprehn_>
this spec is busted
00:32
<zewt>
it uses ... display types? o_O
00:36
<esprehn_>
zewt: yeah, but doesn't define an inline-ruby or block-ruby or I dunno
00:36
<esprehn_>
I don't think webkit could implement the spec without breaking existing ruby content
00:38
<zewt>
sounds like the wrong axis, though i havn't looked at that spec
00:39
<Hixie>
empty numeric control, you hit the step up button. what value does it take?
00:39
<Hixie>
same question, step down button
00:39
<dgorbik>
esprehn: do we render ruby the way specs require aside the fact we don't set some properties?
00:39
<zewt>
unless there's some use case for a particular behavior it's probably arbitrary
00:40
<zewt>
by default i'd probably just pick 0 (or 1 or an arbitrary value in range if there's a range limit)
00:40
<Hixie>
possible answers: minimum, maximum, default step base, step base, zero...
00:41
<zewt>
min and max don't seem correct, at least
00:41
<Hixie>
i was thinking just snap to the minimum
00:41
<Hixie>
let's see what real ones do...
00:41
<zewt>
what if the range is -9999999999 to 99999999999?
00:42
<Hixie>
what if indeed
00:42
<zewt>
zero or one at least don't go crazy if the range is huge (or if there isn't any range)
00:43
<dgorbik>
esprehn, Hixie: by the way (I was about to ask this at one point). Specs require that 'background-' style rules that are applied to WebVTT objects should be applied to the root of those objects instead (it's called webvtt cue box). So here is a question — do you have an idea of how to implement that? As far as I understand we create a RenderStyle for the parent first and then for the children, so we will have to recalc styles after w
00:43
<zewt>
after we$
00:43
<Hixie>
chrome default to zero then takes a step in the given direction, snapping to min/max if it's out of range, as far as i can tell
00:44
<Hixie>
dgorbik: not all webvtt objects, just the root, right?
00:44
<Hixie>
dgorbik: just apply the background to the cue's wrapping box rather than the root box
00:44
<dgorbik>
esprehn: or do some crazy preprocessing... Like manually walking over the rules and splitting them so that 'background-' rules would apply to parent nodes. And only then create renderers
00:44
<Hixie>
("just")
00:44
<Hixie>
opera seems to default to minimum if you go up and maximum if you go down
00:45
<dgorbik>
Hixie: I thought that's for all objects... If any object (even deeply nested one) has this property, it should be applied to the cue box which could be several levels above.
00:46
<dgorbik>
no?
00:46
<Hixie>
no, that would make no sense :-)
00:47
<Hixie>
how would you decide which one was the background?
00:47
<dgorbik>
Hixie: that what I was thinking too
00:48
<dgorbik>
Hixie: hm, is looks like it's now clear about this. I don't remember it was in the previous revision.
05:27
<bambu>
I have index.html, and I copy it to another file called about.html. I alter a paragraph containing the content, and I have a two page site!
05:28
<bambu>
However, to me it seems redundant to have basically two files that are the same apart from a small paragraph, lots of wasted space.
05:28
<bambu>
Is this just how its done?
05:28
<bambu>
Any alternatives?
05:46
<bambu>
Anyone care to read: http://pastie.org/private/7jdn5nelu1zgg6m69pg2dg
06:21
<zewt>
i'll never understand pages with image viewers that hide the image until it finishes loading
06:22
<zewt>
as i sit there waiting for several seconds on a spinner or whatever annoyed because they're jumping hoops to disable incremental loading that browsers have spend tons of time making work
06:23
<zewt>
sometimes i can only wonder if peoples' brains have an on/off switch (stuck in the more unfortunate position)
10:09
<ashemedai>
So this whole new Opera ICE using Webkit. I was amazed.
10:09
<ashemedai>
(Or Ice rather.)
14:15
<MikeSmith>
so who's the guy in the Opera Ice video?
14:15
<MikeSmith>
I don't recognize him
15:01
<espadrine>
MikeSmith: I thought that was Opera's CEO?
15:35
<Ms2ger>
Opera has a CEO?
16:01
<MikeSmith>
Ms2ger: yeah Opera has a CEO but they're planning to replace him with WebKit
16:01
<Ms2ger>
I see
16:01
<MikeSmith>
espadrine: that's no Opera's CEO in that video
16:01
<Ms2ger>
Insufficient pointy hair?
16:02
<MikeSmith>
heh
16:02
<MikeSmith>
well, for one thing, he wouldn't be caught dead wearing the shirt that guy is wearing
16:03
<MikeSmith>
there are a lot of varieties of bad fashion sense in the world, but there's nothing quite like the northern European variety
16:04
<MikeSmith>
especially Scandinavian
16:05
<MikeSmith>
I mean what message is dude sending with that shirt
16:05
<Ms2ger>
And that coming from MikeSmith :)
16:06
<MikeSmith>
well, I would make that shirt look good
16:06
<MikeSmith>
it's all about how you wear it
16:08
<Ms2ger>
Adding a cowboy hat, maybe?
16:10
<MikeSmith>
either that or one of my pimp canes
16:40
<Ms2ger>
"Leading the Web to its fool potential"
16:47
<divya>
:)))
16:47
<divya>
thats what i was wondering MikeSmith
16:48
<divya>
that dude looks so not like lars
17:54
<MikeSmith>
divya: indeed
17:54
<MikeSmith>
reminds me of somebody, but definitely not Lars
17:55
<MikeSmith>
https://mobile.twitter.com/kripken/status/292685421282988033
18:23
<hsivonen>
has annevk's URL spec been implemented in Java yet?
19:20
<zewt>
gar i need to write a gm script to somehow stop href from being changed during onmousedown, to kill those obnoxious fake-link things google and other sites do
19:34
<zewt>
http://pastebin.com/vcjZ7nuh bad enough that google was doing it, now other sites are starting to copy it
19:50
<zewt>
oh i left it killing all onmousedowns, that won't exactly scale heh
21:33
<Moo-_->
zewt: aah... so that's how they do it