| 00:16 | <zewt> | oh, jesus christ |
| 00:16 | <zewt> | apparently webkit allows navigating to blob URLs, and people are using it for things |
| 00:17 | <zewt> | https://github.com/eligrey/FileSaver.js/blob/master/FileSaver.js this idiot is navigating to a blob url to basically polyfill FileSaver |
| 00:20 | <zewt> | not entirely sure how since this code is pretty unreadable |
| 00:22 | <zewt> | or maybe it's trying to do that on firefox and doing something else in webkit |
| 00:22 | <zewt> | stripping down the code to figure it out |
| 00:25 | <zewt> | whew: looks like it's trying to do that in firefox, but is already broken (maybe firefox used to allow navigating to blob URLs and they stopped that) |
| 00:25 | <zewt> | <- terrified of anything that could make blob URLs more complicated and poorly specced than they already are |
| 01:24 | <sicking> | ng |
| 01:25 | <zewt> | wt |
| 09:09 | jgraham | wonders how to answer "would it be possible to add tests" without sounding rude |
| 09:09 | <jgraham> | The answer is something like "yes, of course. But someone needs to write them" |
| 09:10 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Do you have any plans to add workers typed array tests? |
| 09:11 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: yeah i can do that |
| 09:12 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Did you see the email on public-webapps-testsuite? There is a WebGL test but it is in some other format |
| 09:12 | <zcorpan> | i guess structured clone and transfer in general needs tests |
| 09:12 | <jgraham> | https://github.com/KhronosGroup/WebGL/blob/master/sdk/tests/conformance/typedarrays/typed-arrays-in-workers.html |
| 09:12 | <zcorpan> | yeah lemme reply |
| 09:13 | <jgraham> | OK, that's one easy solution :) |
| 09:13 | <jgraham> | I thought we had some tests for structured clone kicking around in some context, but I'm pretty sure they predate typed arrays |
| 09:17 | <zcorpan> | yeah |
| 09:17 | <zcorpan> | and probably predate transfer, too |
| 09:20 | <zcorpan> | reviewing the microsoft worker gives me the impression that they have tried to get as many test *files* as possible with as little effort as possible |
| 09:20 | <zcorpan> | which is a bit annoying |
| 09:21 | <zcorpan> | e.g. compare http://w3c-test.org/webapps/Workers/tests/submissions/Microsoft/Worker_ErrorEvent_filename.htm and http://w3c-test.org/webapps/Workers/tests/submissions/Microsoft/Worker_ErrorEvent_lineno.htm |
| 09:21 | <zcorpan> | (or maybe s/with as little effort as possible//) |
| 09:22 | <tobie> | wrote some basic tests for structured cloning a while back. |
| 09:22 | <tobie> | let me try to dig them out. |
| 09:24 | <jgraham> | To be fair the old Opera test thing with top.rr encouraged the same behaviour |
| 09:25 | <jgraham> | Or encouraged you to do things like passed = e.someProp == "expected1" && e.otherProp == "expected2" && [...] |
| 09:26 | <jgraham> | So it's hard to know if it's just a cultral thing where they are writing tests in the same way they always have |
| 09:35 | <smaug____> | zcorpan: then r- the tests ;) |
| 09:35 | <zcorpan> | smaug____: working on it |
| 09:35 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: yes |
| 09:36 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: i'm sure i have tests that do this sort of thing as well |
| 09:37 | <Ms2ger> | So, git wizards |
| 09:37 | <Ms2ger> | How do I make "git pull w3c" work? |
| 09:37 | <Ms2ger> | To pull from https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests |
| 09:39 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: git remote add w3c git⊙gc:w3c/web-platform-tests.git |
| 09:39 | <jgraham> | If you don't already have a remote called w3c |
| 09:40 | <jgraham> | Otherwise git remote set-url w3c git⊙gc:w3c/web-platform-tests.git |
| 09:40 | <Ms2ger> | You asked to pull from the remote 'w3c', but did not specify |
| 09:40 | <Ms2ger> | a branch. Because this is not the default configured remote |
| 09:40 | <Ms2ger> | for your current branch, you must specify a branch on the command line. |
| 09:40 | <jgraham> | OK |
| 09:40 | <jgraham> | git branch --set-upstream {branchname} w3c/master |
| 09:41 | <jgraham> | (honestlky, I never use git pull. I always use git fetch and then explicity rebase) |
| 09:43 | <Ms2ger> | I have no idea what all of those are |
| 09:43 | <jgraham> | What all what are? |
| 09:44 | <jgraham> | git pull does two things by default: "git fetch" which pulls in all the commits from an upstream and "git merge" which tries to merge the current branch with the upstream branch it's tracking |
| 09:44 | <tobie> | zcorpan, jgraham: here: https://gist.github.com/tobie/3d81cd3d48859d2df1dd |
| 09:45 | <tobie> | LMK if that's of interest to you, in which case I'll submit them officially. |
| 09:45 | <Ms2ger> | I'm only pulling after my PR has been merged |
| 09:45 | <jgraham> | That is pretty silly behaviour because a) it is too easy to make a branch that's tracking the wrong thing and b) rebase is better than merge for unpushed changes |
| 09:46 | <Ms2ger> | And my unpushed changes are in a hg repo for my sanity |
| 09:46 | <jgraham> | So instead of doing the magic all-in-one operation, you can do each part independently (like in hg) |
| 09:46 | <jgraham> | git fetch, then git rebase {branch I think is the one this branch should be based on} |
| 09:46 | <annevk> | Hixie: I think I should give a response of sorts |
| 09:47 | <tobie> | Agreed. git fetch W3C and rebasing is a much more sane strategy. |
| 09:47 | Philip` | likes "git pull --rebase" |
| 09:47 | <jgraham> | You can also change the default behaviour of git pull to rebase |
| 09:48 | <zcorpan> | tobie: thanks |
| 09:48 | <Ms2ger> | So, I fetched |
| 09:48 | <Ms2ger> | Now I'm trying to push those commits to my fork |
| 09:48 | <jgraham> | (which is "git config branch.autosetuprebase always") |
| 09:49 | <jgraham> | git push {remote} HEAD:{remote_branch} |
| 09:49 | <jgraham> | Will push HEAD on your local checkout to {remote_branch} in the remote named {remote} |
| 09:50 | <jgraham> | (HEAD could be anything commit-like e.g. a branch name) |
| 09:51 | <tobie> | zcorpan: note I have zero recollection of why I implemented the structureClone helper function that way. |
| 09:51 | <jgraham> | (so you can do things like "git fetch w3c; git push ms2ger w3c/master:master" to update the master branch in the ms2ger remote with the latest commits from the w3c remote) |
| 09:51 | <Ms2ger> | *sigh* |
| 09:51 | <Ms2ger> | All I want to do is hg pull -u w3c && hg push |
| 09:51 | <Ms2ger> | Why is this so hard? |
| 09:52 | <jgraham> | It isn't :p |
| 09:52 | <Philip`> | Ms2ger: Because you make life hard for yourself by using two tools instead of one? |
| 09:52 | <Ms2ger> | Anyway, git pull w3c master and git push seems to have worked |
| 09:53 | <Philip`> | It only takes a few months to get used to how git does things |
| 09:54 | Ms2ger | tries to remember what he was going to do before git got in the way |
| 09:55 | <jgraham> | If all you are doing is shunting commits between different remote repos, I think you *really* don't want to use git pull |
| 09:55 | <jgraham> | But anyway, if you solved your problem, that's good :) |
| 09:56 | <Ms2ger> | Well, what did I want to do, then? |
| 09:57 | <Ms2ger> | Fetch did something, but apparently not enough |
| 09:57 | <SimonSapin> | eh, we found the packet of death that crashes our MTA … time to invoke http://xkcd.com/242/ |
| 09:58 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: fetch will bring all the remote commits into your local repository |
| 09:58 | <Philip`> | I think "git fetch" is equivalent to "hg pull" (without the "-u") |
| 09:59 | <Ms2ger> | Then how do I do hg update? |
| 10:00 | <SimonSapin> | Ms2ger: git merge origin/master (assuming the branch is master, and you want a merge rather than a rebase) |
| 10:00 | <jgraham> | I think the answer is "it depends exactly what you want to do" |
| 10:00 | <Ms2ger> | I don't want to merge |
| 10:01 | <SimonSapin> | although rebase and merge are the same if nothing have diverged. git calls that a "fast-forward merge" |
| 10:01 | <Ms2ger> | My tree is a subset of upstream |
| 10:01 | <jgraham> | If you want to checkout the upstream changes |
| 10:01 | <jgraham> | Then the safest option is git merge --ff-only |
| 10:02 | <SimonSapin> | Ms2ger: it’s still called a merge, although a "fast-forward" one |
| 10:02 | <jgraham> | Which will update your local branch but only if it is really a subset of upstream |
| 10:02 | <jgraham> | And throw an error if it isn't |
| 10:02 | <jgraham> | If you *do* have local commits |
| 10:02 | <Ms2ger> | A merge is when you have two heads, and you create a new commit with the two heads as parents |
| 10:03 | <SimonSapin> | Ms2ger: git calls that a non-fast-forward merge |
| 10:03 | <Ms2ger> | So git just calls things that aren't merges merges to confuse me? |
| 10:03 | <Ms2ger> | That sounds pretty much expected |
| 10:03 | <jgraham> | Well you are merging in the remote changes |
| 10:03 | <jgraham> | So it's not like it doesn't make sense |
| 10:06 | <jgraham> | (I don't tend to think in terms of "heads" with git. I just think in terms of branches) |
| 10:06 | <Ms2ger> | Not with my definition of merge :) |
| 10:07 | <Ms2ger> | Anyway |
| 10:08 | <Ms2ger> | Feel free to review :) |
| 10:10 | <jgraham> | I wonder why that didn't get a critic review |
| 10:11 | <Ms2ger> | It did |
| 10:11 | <Ms2ger> | This is an automatic message generated by the review at: |
| 10:11 | <Ms2ger> | http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/8 |
| 10:11 | <jgraham> | Oh, I'm just not set up as a reviewer there :) |
| 10:11 | <Ms2ger> | tobie, and I'm pretty sure ES doesn't accept tests from people who aren't employed by a TC member |
| 10:11 | <zcorpan> | does https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/37 have a critic review? |
| 10:13 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Does now: http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/9 |
| 10:13 | <jgraham> | I forgot to transfer the filters to the new repo. |
| 10:13 | <tobie> | Ms2ger: that is just absurd. |
| 10:13 | <Ms2ger> | tobie, indeed |
| 10:13 | <jgraham> | tobie: Also, true |
| 10:14 | <tobie> | mmm. |
| 10:14 | <Ms2ger> | tobie, but no, I'm not going to bother fighting them |
| 10:14 | <tobie> | I might. |
| 10:14 | <jgraham> | Pretty sure the right thing to do is smuggle them in via jwalden or someone |
| 10:14 | <tobie> | I live 10 min away from Ecma HQ. |
| 10:14 | <Ms2ger> | I could do that |
| 10:14 | <Ms2ger> | But then I have to do work |
| 10:14 | <jgraham> | Well I mean the right thing to do is to take pitchforks and burning torches to ECMA |
| 10:14 | <Ms2ger> | Whereas it's much easier to just route around the damage |
| 10:15 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, do the keyboard shortcuts actually work in Fx? |
| 10:16 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: I think they might not. If they don't work in Chrome either I guess it will get fixed soon ;) |
| 10:16 | <Ms2ger> | Heh |
| 10:16 | <jgraham> | Otherwise, patches welcome (or I will look) |
| 10:17 | <tobie> | what license is test262 under? |
| 10:17 | <tobie> | can't find this info on the website. |
| 10:18 | <jgraham> | darobin, MikeSmith, tobie, zcorpan, Ms2ger, others: if you had filters on the html-tetssuite repo. in critic you will need to readd tehm for the web-platform-tests repo. Sorry about that. |
| 10:18 | <jgraham> | https://github.com/tronical/test262/blob/master/LICENSE |
| 10:18 | <jgraham> | Perhaps? |
| 10:19 | <tobie> | jgraham: ty. |
| 10:20 | <jgraham> | https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/test262-discuss/2012-February/000086.html is also relevant |
| 10:20 | <tobie> | OK, so I guess we should try to fix the contribution situation at Ecma (I'll give it a try), or fork the repo and pull it in somehow. |
| 10:30 | <zcorpan> | is there something that returns a File without user interaction? |
| 10:30 | <tobie> | Happy birthday darobin! |
| 10:31 | <tobie> | zcorpan: nope. |
| 10:31 | <zcorpan> | this is annoying |
| 10:31 | <tobie> | There's a thread about that being an issue for testing on the whatwg mailing list, afaik. |
| 10:31 | <darobin> | thanks tobie :) |
| 10:31 | <zcorpan> | ah |
| 10:31 | <tobie> | where I complain direly. |
| 10:31 | <jgraham> | Oh, happy birthday |
| 10:32 | <darobin> | thank you man :) |
| 10:34 | <zcorpan> | tobie: i can't find the thread. what should i search for? |
| 10:34 | <tobie> | zcorpan: webapps, actually: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012OctDec/0675.html |
| 10:34 | <tobie> | and I must've dreamt about complaining. |
| 10:35 | <jgraham> | Maybe you are actually Victor Costan in disguise? |
| 10:36 | <tobie> | maybe. |
| 10:36 | <zcorpan> | tobie: thanks |
| 10:38 | <tobie> | jgraham: the more plausible answer is I failed at clicking send. |
| 10:39 | <tobie> | jgraham: or the content was so full of some of my signature garbled sentences it was trashed by a spambot. |
| 10:40 | <annevk> | darobin darobin darobin |
| 10:40 | <annevk> | happy b-day! |
| 10:40 | <Ms2ger> | I thought it was darobin's birthday just now... |
| 10:43 | <jgraham> | Maybe he's like the Queen |
| 10:45 | <tobie> | Ms2ger: Reached out to Ecma. we'll see how this goes. Will keep youposted. |
| 10:46 | <Ms2ger> | Ta |
| 10:47 | <tobie> | Do we have specs in the WebApps where we feel we have 100% test coverage? |
| 10:47 | <tobie> | Trying to validate our test coverage mode, here. |
| 10:47 | <tobie> | s/mode/model/ |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | Mm |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | Progress events |
| 10:48 | <darobin> | annevk annevk! Thanks :) |
| 10:51 | <tobie> | Ms2ger: ty |
| 10:51 | <zcorpan> | if i'm reading webidl right, this should throw TypeError: postMessage(null, [null]); |
| 10:52 | <zcorpan> | since null isn't a Transferable and can't be converted to one |
| 10:55 | <Ms2ger> | What's the definition of postMessage? |
| 10:59 | <zcorpan> | void postMessage(any message, optional sequence<Transferable> transfer); |
| 10:59 | <zcorpan> | this is the worker postMessage |
| 11:01 | <Ms2ger> | Looks like it would throw, yes |
| 11:03 | <zcorpan> | hmm. cross-document messaging is a webapps spec, isn't it? i guess webapps needs to join the github thing if they want the tests i submitted there :-) |
| 11:04 | <zcorpan> | maybe i should send an email to public-webapps-testing about that |
| 11:04 | <Ms2ger> | We'll see what Art sorts out today |
| 11:05 | <zcorpan> | i guess the document structure in the testsuite is generated from the whatwg spec? |
| 11:06 | <zcorpan> | or maybe not |
| 11:06 | <Ms2ger> | darobin did it |
| 11:07 | <tobie> | zcorpan: if you want to use the tests I sent you, I'll need to run them through fb legal. Should be fast, but I still have to do it. |
| 11:07 | <Ms2ger> | Fun |
| 11:07 | <tobie> | Ms2ger: absolutely. |
| 11:16 | <darobin> | zcorpan: the structure is generated from the spec, err, I forgot which variant I used but the differences are small |
| 11:17 | <darobin> | as for webapps moving to github, everyone seems to be waiting on the approval from someone else |
| 11:17 | <darobin> | so what I would recommend is: JFDI |
| 11:17 | <darobin> | ask for forgiveness, not permission and all that |
| 11:17 | <darobin> | and even then, screw forgiveness |
| 11:17 | <darobin> | just do it |
| 11:25 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, Art said he'd try to sort it out today, so maybe we could wait for that :) |
| 11:26 | <darobin> | you're such a bureaucratic square Ms2ger |
| 11:27 | <Ms2ger> | If you wanted to jfdi, should've done that ages ago :) |
| 11:28 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: I'm not working on WebApps testing :p |
| 11:29 | <Ms2ger> | Why not? :) |
| 11:31 | <jgraham> | Because then plh will apply "jfdi" to his fingers with a hammer? |
| 11:33 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: because I have two or three other things to do... |
| 12:12 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: but progress events is a useless spec, might be worth adding :) |
| 12:12 | <Ms2ger> | True :) |
| 12:12 | <Ms2ger> | But he didn't ask that |
| 12:14 | <jgraham> | We could write the null spec with 0 conformance requirements so that we have one with complete test coverage |
| 12:14 | <jgraham> | Although by "write" |
| 12:14 | <jgraham> | I really mean "use HTML4" |
| 12:16 | <annevk> | brb, adding quotes to my desk |
| 12:27 | <annevk> | http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20130315#l-281 :-( |
| 12:27 | <annevk> | Sounds like Microsoft's CSS tests |
| 12:28 | <annevk> | But then of course they do contribute, whereas others just don't care that much... |
| 12:57 | <tobie> | Ms2ger: meeting with Ecma next week. Seems like this is fixable. |
| 12:57 | <Ms2ger> | We'll see |
| 12:58 | <tobie> | oh come on. A bit of optimism wouldn't hurt. :) |
| 12:59 | <Ms2ger> | You must be new here :) |
| 13:00 | <gsnedders> | "this"? |
| 13:00 | gsnedders | wonders if tobie is trying to let others submit tests to test262 |
| 13:00 | <Ms2ger> | Right |
| 13:00 | <tobie> | Ms2ger: you know I am. :) |
| 13:00 | <gsnedders> | I got the impression this had to go to the Ecma GA to get approved, and nobody had the drive to push it through there. |
| 13:02 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: You can tell we are talking javascript if you aren't sure what "this" referes to |
| 13:02 | <tobie> | jgraham: I was trying to find a joke to make around this but failed. |
| 13:02 | <Ms2ger> | Nicely done |
| 13:03 | <gsnedders> | But I know what this refers to! thisArg! |
| 13:05 | <zcorpan> | hmm. i'm trying to build cssom with the latest xref/ but get an error: ValueError: Expecting property name: line 26 column 1 (char 791) |
| 13:05 | <gsnedders> | How come WebKit/Gecko support blobs for WebWorkers? |
| 13:06 | <zcorpan> | File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 382, in raw_decode |
| 13:06 | <zcorpan> | obj, end = self.scan_once(s, idx) |
| 13:06 | <Ms2ger> | What's the deepest anolis frame? |
| 13:06 | <gsnedders> | I mean for the Worker constructor, here. |
| 13:07 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: the above is at the bottom of the traceback |
| 13:07 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan: But it's not a frame with Anolis in it. |
| 13:08 | <zcorpan> | ah. File "build/bdist.macosx-10.8-intel/egg/anolislib/processes/xspecxref.py", line 56, in buildReferences |
| 13:08 | <jgraham> | Is the latest xref/ actually valid json? |
| 13:09 | <Ms2ger> | Apparently not |
| 13:09 | <zcorpan> | what's broken? |
| 13:09 | <Ms2ger> | https://github.com/whatwg/xref/commit/dd82cfef17a9f9230fd487106a7475048f5ee79a |
| 13:09 | <Ms2ger> | You can't have a comma at the end of the line |
| 13:10 | <zcorpan> | oh, oops! |
| 13:14 | <jgraham> | Yeah, what a ridiculous notion |
| 13:15 | <zcorpan> | now make gives me `No such file or directory: 'data/xrefs/css/cssom.json'. Please create it first. ` and `[Errno 20] Not a directory: u'data/specs.json'` |
| 13:15 | <zcorpan> | though cssom.json exists there afaict :-/ |
| 13:17 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, so |
| 13:17 | <Ms2ger> | Hm |
| 13:18 | <Ms2ger> | Maybe try --xref="../xref"? |
| 13:20 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: where? |
| 13:21 | <Ms2ger> | In the makefile |
| 13:21 | <Ms2ger> | Like https://github.com/whatwg/xhr/blob/master/Makefile |
| 13:22 | <zcorpan> | https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/Makefile is the current makefile |
| 13:24 | Ms2ger | tries |
| 13:25 | <zcorpan> | i added --xref="data" (since that's where xref lives) but got the same result |
| 13:34 | Ms2ger | is confused |
| 13:36 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: about what? |
| 13:53 | <Ms2ger> | About the fact that anolis doesn't throw here |
| 13:53 | <Ms2ger> | But instead gives me an empty Overview.html |
| 13:54 | <Ms2ger> | The node stuff, probably |
| 13:54 | <Ms2ger> | Ah, here we are |
| 13:56 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, where do you get the webidl parser? |
| 13:56 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/README |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: did you write that |
| 13:59 | Ms2ger | gives up |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | I mean zcorpan |
| 13:59 | <zcorpan> | annevk: no |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | Defining HTML inline with IDL seems like a terrible idea |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | That's what ReSpec does and every spec with ReSpec runs into problems because of it |
| 14:00 | <jgraham> | "defining html inline with idl"? |
| 14:03 | <zcorpan> | example idl file: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/idl/CSSCharsetRule.idl and the html source which references idls: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/cssom-source |
| 14:03 | jgraham | wonders why kris and plh aren't "ext" in Art's email |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | it's the sole thing I dislike about Art |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | his email client |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | so annoying, I think sometimes it has leaked into my contacts |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | Well |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | To be fair |
| 14:06 | <Ms2ger> | Hrm |
| 14:07 | <Ms2ger> | It claims to be thunderbird |
| 14:07 | <jgraham> | It's better than all the non-plain-text, gmail-toting, Googlers |
| 14:07 | <Ms2ger> | And I can confirm that it's not a feature of thunderbird |
| 14:07 | <jgraham> | I assumed that it was a feature of nokia |
| 14:07 | <jgraham> | That people without @nokia.com addresses are marked external |
| 14:08 | <jgraham> | But that theory seems to be wrong |
| 14:08 | <Ms2ger> | Also better than: howcome's indented >'s for quoting, Chris Lilley' 'INITIALS>' |
| 14:09 | <jgraham> | And <bryan> |
| 14:10 | <Ms2ger> | My response is in red |
| 14:12 | <tobie> | jgraham: :D |
| 14:14 | <annevk> | I'm glad I got you guys inspired, this is entertaining |
| 14:20 | <zcorpan> | just do what bjoern does and paper over people's email client's quirks |
| 14:21 | <Ms2ger> | I'd love to see his stuff implemented in my client |
| 14:44 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: jgraham: does https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/38 have a critic review? (how do i create one myself if there isn't?) |
| 14:44 | <zewt> | pretty much the most hopelessly broken thing in email today is people who do the "no quote markers at all" thing |
| 14:45 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, there is one |
| 14:45 | <zewt> | which is essentially "i don't care about how the internet does things and it doesn't bother me if i break the thread for everyone else" |
| 14:45 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/8 |
| 14:46 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Did you add yourself as a reviewer on that repo? |
| 14:46 | <zcorpan> | no |
| 14:47 | <jgraham> | You should :) |
| 14:47 | <jgraham> | I will try to teach critic to comment on the pull request itself at some point |
| 14:47 | <zcorpan> | done. yeah that would be nice |
| 14:50 | <tobie> | yes. We'll be logging comments shortly, so having critic working properly there would be useful. |
| 14:52 | <jgraham> | Logging comments? |
| 14:52 | <tobie> | see Im hopeless after 3pm |
| 14:52 | <jgraham> | (I just meant critic would push a message saying "Critic review at {url}") |
| 14:52 | <tobie> | oh. |
| 14:52 | <tobie> | Well that's not very useful. |
| 14:53 | <jgraham> | (doing something more is probably possible but I'm not really sure hwo well the data models match) |
| 14:53 | <jgraham> | (e.g. as far as I can tell, github things of comments as things that apply to commits) |
| 14:53 | <tobie> | yeah, possibly. |
| 14:53 | <tobie> | some of them. |
| 14:53 | <jgraham> | (not to commits,pullrequest tuples) |
| 14:54 | <jgraham> | (also, less seriously, critic allows multiline comments and has two types of comment, whereas gh only has a single type of single line comment) |
| 14:54 | <jgraham> | *thinks |
| 14:54 | <tobie> | Don't make me have this conversation again. |
| 14:55 | <jgraham> | I'm not making you have any conversation |
| 14:55 | <jgraham> | I'm just pointing out that there are some difficulties |
| 14:55 | tobie | stays put. |
| 14:56 | <tobie> | :D |
| 14:57 | <jgraham> | http://developer.github.com/v3/pulls/comments/#create-a-comment does look a little more promising than I thought |
| 15:00 | <Ms2ger> | I complained on IRC once... |
| 15:02 | <Ms2ger> | Anyone who's on the webgl mailing list? |
| 15:30 | <zcorpan> | nice weekend guys |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | Hixie: http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1086158925&order=-1&count=1 seems we are now doing those kind of OS-level APIs :-) |
| 15:31 | <annevk> | zcorpan: you too! |
| 15:32 | <zcorpan> | thanks :-) |
| 15:59 | <darobin> | heh |
| 16:00 | <darobin> | what actually happened: "If three of the most bitter rivals in the marketplace — all of whom have extensive experience in the subject in question — agree on something, then it's probably [...]" |
| 16:00 | <darobin> | A) that they don't want the competition |
| 16:00 | <darobin> | B) that they have their heads so far up their arses doing what they've done that they can't see alternatives |
| 16:01 | <darobin> | C) that they're on their way to lose their dominance or even disappear |
| 16:01 | <darobin> | D) all of the above |
| 16:01 | <SimonSapin> | darobin: Is that about mobile carriers in France? |
| 16:02 | <TabAtkins> | jgraham: The way to answer that question is. "Yes. Are you volunteering to write them? ^_^" (the smilie at the end is important) |
| 16:06 | <darobin> | SimonSapin: no, it's about the 2004 Hixie blog post that annevk pointed to |
| 16:06 | <darobin> | featuring Sun Microsystems, assuming you're old enough to remember who that is |
| 16:07 | <SimonSapin> | were they W3C members? |
| 16:08 | <annevk> | I've not had time to fix many bugs yet, but it's up at http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/ now |
| 16:10 | <annevk> | I'm also thinking of putting basic CORS and redirect handling directly into basic fetch |
| 16:11 | <annevk> | Thoughts welcome |
| 16:15 | <darobin> | SimonSapin: oh yes |
| 16:22 | <SimonSapin> | darobin: I know about Sun, but it ceased to be before I knew about working groups |
| 16:42 | <darobin> | SimonSapin: they were very big in XML groups |
| 16:43 | <darobin> | and towards the end in anything related to mobile |
| 17:12 | <annevk> | darobin: depending on this bus I'm about to take, I might be a bit early or late |
| 17:13 | <darobin> | annevk: that's okay, we're heading out in a few minutes so we'll be there |
| 17:14 | <annevk> | darobin: are you close to Leicester Square now by any chance? |
| 17:14 | <darobin> | not really |
| 17:14 | <darobin> | I'm in Bethnal Green |
| 17:15 | <darobin> | I'll be walking to that pub |
| 17:17 | <annevk> | nice |
| 17:17 | <Ms2ger> | Enjoy |
| 17:19 | <smaug____> | scheib: ping |
| 17:22 | <darobin> | annevk: actually, I'm in the wrong TZ — I'll be walking there in about 30min |
| 17:23 | <annevk> | right |
| 17:23 | <annevk> | it'll take me about an hour anyway |
| 17:29 | <marcosc> | darobin: happy birthday, fella! |
| 17:31 | <darobin> | marcosc: thanks man! |
| 17:36 | <jgraham> | Did anne really just say "my arrival time depends on how long it takes me to get there"? |
| 17:37 | <jgraham> | TabAtkins: In this case it wasn't so mcuh "write them" as "rewrite them to not be part of the WebGL testsuite" |
| 17:37 | <jgraham> | But as it turns out zcorpan is awesome |
| 17:38 | <jgraham> | Next week: sky blue |
| 17:57 | <darobin> | "I don't always go to Bethnal Green, but when I do my arrival time depends on how long it takes me to get there" --annevk |
| 19:04 | <scheib> | smug____: at lunch. Email? |
| 19:08 | <Ms2ger> | smaug____, you mean |
| 19:14 | <smaug____> | scheib: ping me after lunch ? |
| 19:15 | <smaug____> | scheib: I'm wondering about the focus handling and pointer lock |
| 19:15 | <smaug____> | and spec is unclear about documents and windows |
| 19:54 | <scheib> | smaug____: Let's discuss pointer lock and focus handling. |
| 19:55 | <smaug____> | scheib: so, first, "Pointer lock must succeed only if the target is in the DOM tree." |
| 19:55 | <smaug____> | what if the target is in a data document |
| 19:55 | <smaug____> | say, document.implementation.createHTMLDocument().body.requestPointerLock() |
| 19:55 | <smaug____> | what should happen? |
| 19:55 | <scheib> | I'm unfamiliar why that wouldn't be considered as part of the DOM, apologies. |
| 19:56 | <Ms2ger> | It's part of the DOM |
| 19:56 | <Ms2ger> | But there's no browsing context |
| 19:56 | <smaug____> | yes, it is part of DOM |
| 19:56 | <smaug____> | right |
| 19:57 | <smaug____> | then, about focusing. What should happen to pointer lock when focus is moved to an iframe ? |
| 19:59 | <smaug____> | per spec pointer lock is cancelled in that case |
| 19:59 | <smaug____> | but I'm not sure whether implementations actually do that always |
| 20:00 | <scheib> | So, I'm not personally familiar with createHTMLDocument() yet, just started looking. It seems to create a new document for you, but is it rooted anywhere? |
| 20:00 | <smaug____> | "rooted"? |
| 20:00 | <smaug____> | it is just a document |
| 20:00 | <Ms2ger> | Not in a frame or somehting |
| 20:01 | <scheib> | Ok, so you can request a lock on a document, and it will be rejected from locking if it is not the document of an active tab, and the tab in the OS level active window. |
| 20:01 | <smaug____> | yeah, something like that. Need to just use spec terminology |
| 20:01 | <scheib> | BTW, if we can improve the wording of the specification I'm happy to do so, suggestions welcome. |
| 20:01 | <smaug____> | browsing context and such |
| 20:01 | <smaug____> | scheib: the focus handling is more interesting |
| 20:02 | <smaug____> | hmm, actually, per spec, focusing an iframe doesn't exit lock state, since the parent window is still focused... I think |
| 20:02 | <smaug____> | but that may mean that key events go to domain X yet mouse events to domain Y |
| 20:02 | <scheib> | Ok, on to that. If focus is in the main document, and not an iframe, I expect a request for pointer lock to fail if made from the iframe. |
| 20:02 | <Ms2ger> | "Every bug is two bugs: the bug in your code, and the test you didn't write" |
| 20:03 | <smaug____> | scheib: request pointer lock in top level document |
| 20:03 | <smaug____> | scheib: then focus iframe |
| 20:03 | <smaug____> | what should happen to pointer lock |
| 20:03 | <smaug____> | note, mouse isn't used to focus the iframe |
| 20:03 | <smaug____> | only .focus() or some such |
| 20:04 | <scheib> | Right. I don't see a reason it should exit (yet). |
| 20:04 | <smaug____> | well, it is really really odd if key events go to domain X yet all the mouse events to domain Y |
| 20:04 | <smaug____> | key events follow focus |
| 20:04 | <smaug____> | mouse events follow pointer lock |
| 20:07 | <scheib> | 'odd' may be subjective here. If mouse input has been locked to a particular target I believe it is reasonable for it to stay locked to that target unless there is a reason to break it (user exit, app exit, user moves operating system focus away from the web page). |
| 20:08 | <scheib> | The ability to move the keyboard input focus is intentional, it should move, you should still be able to type into different input boxes, move around with TAB, etc. |
| 20:08 | <smaug____> | even cross domain? |
| 20:08 | <smaug____> | anyhow, the spec should clarify this |
| 20:09 | <scheib> | Crossing into an iframe, from a user point of view, is essentially the same as moving between regions of a web page. Unless we are protecting a user from a security vulnerability I don't know that they should be concerned about the domain, in the same way they aren't normally concerned when they move keyboard focus when outside of pointer lock. |
| 20:10 | <scheib> | Re clarifying the spec: certainly, we can do that, let's wrap up that we're in agreement as to what should happen. |
| 20:10 | <smaug____> | I think I can live with focus moving |
| 20:10 | <smaug____> | at least until a security bug is found |
| 20:10 | <smaug____> | :) |
| 20:12 | <scheib> | Ok. BTW, I verify that webkit allows the transition in current implementation via http://scheib.github.com/HTMLMisc/PointerLockAndFullscreen.html |
| 20:13 | <smaug____> | based on code inspection Gecko allows focus changes in fullscreen mode, but I was thinking to change it |
| 20:13 | <smaug____> | but maybe I don't do that yet |
| 20:13 | <smaug____> | I'm adding the non-fullscreen mode |
| 20:20 | <scheib> | In clarifying the spec for focus, how does this addition in section 7. Requirements sound to you: "The Pointer Lock API must exit the pointer lock state if the user agent, window, or tab loses focus." by adding, " Moving focus between elements in a tab, including into other browser contexts inside iframes, does not exit pointer lock." |
| 20:21 | <smaug____> | scheib: sounds ok |
| 20:21 | <smaug____> | thanks |
| 20:36 | <smaug____> | scheib: if pointer lock and focus are first in iframe, and then focus is moved to parent, what should happen? |
| 20:36 | <smaug____> | iframe isn't focused anymore, so I guess pointer lock is cancelled |
| 20:46 | <scheib> | smaug____: Same arguments as above, I don't see a reason to exit pointer lock. |
| 20:47 | <scheib> | E.g. use case, a 3D model editor that is a composition of 3D window views and a property editor on the right hand side. Pointer lock engaged inside one the of 3D views that are each an iframe, and then keyboard focus moved to a number edit box in the property editor in the parent document. Why break the lock? |
| 20:53 | <smaug____> | scheib: well, then the spec needs still some clarifications |
| 20:54 | <scheib> | " Moving focus between elements in a tab, including into other browser contexts across iframe boundaries, does not exit pointer lock." ? |
| 20:55 | <smaug____> | hmm, actually, need to drop iframe |
| 20:55 | <smaug____> | we have frames and what not |
| 21:01 | <scheib> | " Moving focus between elements in a tab, including into other browsing contexts, does not exit pointer lock." ? |
| 21:07 | <smaug____> | ok |
| 21:07 | <scheib> | smaug____: Any suggestions on how to clarify in specification terms the relationship between a document and a tab with active window manager focus? |
| 21:17 | <scheib> | smaug____: mmm, I'm thinking along the lines of "active document of the browsing context currently focused by the OS/window manger, e.g. in the active tab of a browser." http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/browsers.html#active-document |
| 21:20 | <smaug____> | yeah |
| 21:20 | <smaug____> | something like that |
| 21:36 | <Hixie> | zewt: <a download> exists now |
| 21:37 | <zewt> | that doesn't let me set a filename without also forcing a download (like content-disposition: inline; filename=foo) |
| 21:37 | <Hixie> | ah, right |
| 21:38 | <zewt> | don't think i ever really understood why we didn't do <a download filename=foo>, keeping them orthogonal (like they are in C-D) |
| 21:39 | <Hixie> | more complicated |
| 21:41 | <zewt> | keeping unrelated things separate seems simpler to me, at least |
| 21:47 | <zewt> | uh gross, firefox is recommending putting BOMs on files (in the console) |
| 22:44 | <smaug____> | Web Audio API spec is so sad |