| 02:46 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/meetings/2013-02-28#Mike_Smith__28_tm__29___27_s_Complaint |
| 02:47 | <MikeSmith> | "q+ to ask why tool authors who work for us get to wag the dog here" |
| 02:47 | <MikeSmith> | gotta love that kind of response |
| 02:52 | <Hixie> | hahaha |
| 02:52 | <Hixie> | "damn these people sending us valid feedback, why do we have to make a good technology that considers things we hadn't thought of" |
| 02:53 | <Hixie> | this is as opposed to when _I_ disagree with you, when that happens i just try to drown you in a wall of text, amirite? ;-) |
| 02:56 | <zewt> | Hixie: but they thought of everything, therefore the feedback must be invalid, qed |
| 03:07 | <MikeSmith> | not even clear to me from those minutes what point he was trying to make |
| 03:07 | <MikeSmith> | "I think that the tool is broken." |
| 03:08 | <MikeSmith> | broken in that it actually implements what the spec says, instead of, I guess, what they intended for it to say, or what somebody should be expected to assume from reading it |
| 03:08 | <MikeSmith> | I've had some many cases of that with the RDFa specs |
| 03:09 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., before the spec never explicitly stated that the values of the various RDFa attributes could be the empty string |
| 03:11 | <MikeSmith> | so beack then I commented about that and I think I got the same kind of response; i.e., something like "Well of course they can be the empty string. ANy fool can see that. So the spec doesn't actually have to say it." |
| 03:11 | <Hixie> | to be fair, a lot of spec authors are of the mindset that specs don't have to be thorough and precise |
| 03:11 | <Hixie> | a _lot_ of w3c and ietf specs are like that |
| 03:12 | <Hixie> | they give a general idea, and leave the details to implementors |
| 03:12 | <Hixie> | HTML4 being a classic example |
| 03:12 | <Hixie> | but by no means either the worst or the first |
| 03:13 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 03:13 | <MikeSmith> | but I would hope the bar is a lot higher these days |
| 03:14 | <Hixie> | a lot of people were never asked if they agreed with the kind of spec quality css2.1 started |
| 03:14 | <Hixie> | and so they're still in the old world |
| 03:14 | <Hixie> | where spec writing was easy :-) |
| 03:14 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 03:15 | <zewt> | wow, irssi is terrible |
| 03:15 | <zewt> | it takes _foo_ and underlines it |
| 03:16 | <zewt> | you know you've worked on crappy terminal irc client too long if you're implementing that and actually think it's not horrible gimmicky nonsense |
| 03:16 | <othermaciej> | implementors can't be trusted to figure out the details in a consistent way |
| 03:17 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: don't forget, this is the same mindset that thinks that non-conforming documents are irrelevant because interop doesn't matter if the author screwed up |
| 03:18 | <zewt> | (which itself assumes that a nonconforming document is the author's fault) |
| 03:20 | <Hixie> | it often is, to a first approximation, but that's of no consolation to the users when 97% of documents are trivially non-conforming in some way or other :-) |
| 03:21 | <zewt> | but 97% of documents are nonconforming != 97% of authors screwed up :P |
| 03:21 | <zewt> | (no, we're not disagreeing in any material way) |
| 07:04 | <Ms2ger> | annevk: I saw a Gecko patch for autoRevoke, btw |
| 07:25 | <zcorpan> | TabAtkins: do you have any URLs to sites that do smooth scrolling? |
| 08:00 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16920 seems good to me |
| 08:01 | <zcorpan> | hmm, except for "This should be done even if the video is paused, except if video playback hasn't ever started yet." |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | Why can https://cgi.w3.org/member-bin/MailingListQuery.pl?queryList=www-dom and such no longer be accessed with Member credentials? |
| 08:36 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, so how do I get my pr mirrored? |
| 08:40 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: dunno but maybe not intentional |
| 08:40 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: best to e-mail sysreq⊙wo to ask |
| 08:40 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: In theory, if you have push access, do nothing |
| 08:40 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: Since the code is totally untested and therefore broken, tell dom to start looking for the stacktrace in the log |
| 09:18 | <annevk> | I wonder why filing bugs no longer works on HTML? |
| 09:18 | <annevk> | Or did I just file dozens? |
| 09:23 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: there's a harness and then almost no tests |
| 09:24 | <hsivonen> | I know one should not read Internet comments, but there are just so many ill-informed people commenting on the Netflix HTML5 news on The Verge. |
| 09:29 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: pointer to the harness? |
| 09:29 | <a-ja> | hsivonen: read article, but not comments....pretty silly ones, eh? |
| 09:30 | <zcorpan> | anyone have API design opinions on https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20328 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19753 ? |
| 09:31 | <annevk`> | Looks like a future |
| 09:35 | <zcorpan> | allElementsFromPoint(x,y, 'document') ? |
| 09:36 | <Ms2ger> | 'document'? |
| 09:37 | <annevk> | lol, who is annevk`? |
| 09:38 | <annevk> | ah, should have known |
| 09:38 | <Ms2ger> | :) |
| 09:39 | <hsivonen> | a-ja: even the article was just press release journalism summarising the Netflix post without checking other sources for relevant info |
| 09:39 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20328 wants to use these methods outside the viewport, in the canvas area |
| 09:39 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: https://bitbucket.org/validator/validator/src/0d0e5f1771339b55adda64089b12a32c5dacb78c/test-harness?at=default |
| 09:40 | <annevk> | zcorpan: document.hitTest({x:2, y:5}) -> static list (same as the one to be returned from document.find() |
| 09:42 | <zcorpan> | annevk: and what about choosing which area you want (viewport vs document)? |
| 09:42 | zcorpan | bbiab |
| 09:42 | <annevk> | context:"page" / "client" or some such? |
| 09:42 | <hsivonen> | the coverage at Ars is a bit better, but is still pretty close to mere press release journalism |
| 09:46 | <hsivonen> | at least over at Ars, the commenters have more clue than over at The Verge |
| 09:48 | <annevk> | Oh that is interesting. Netflix made a bet on DRM ending up in HTML? |
| 09:53 | <hsivonen> | annevk: well, at this point, EME shipping on Chrome OS is not a bet anymore |
| 10:10 | <marcosc> | darobin: in respec, how do I escape [[HasOwnProperty]] without respect trying to associate it with a biblio entry? |
| 10:11 | <marcosc> | s/respect/respec |
| 10:11 | <Ms2ger> | Bwahahaha |
| 10:11 | <marcosc> | heh |
| 10:11 | <Ms2ger> | Try [<!-- -->[ |
| 10:12 | <marcosc> | no, Ms2ger, I'm sure Respec will handle this in a clever way |
| 10:12 | <marcosc> | :) |
| 10:18 | <Ms2ger> | Bwahahaha |
| 10:19 | <annevk> | You want to write a spec. You think, I'll use ReSpec. Now you have two problems. |
| 10:25 | <zcorpan> | annevk: do you have a fancy name for the new caretPositionFromPoint that returns a list? |
| 10:25 | <annevk> | caretHitTest? |
| 10:27 | <annevk> | note though that without defining hit testing this will create a ton of issues down the road :( |
| 10:31 | <annevk> | it also seems somewhat unclear what kind of list you want to return |
| 10:31 | <annevk> | e.g. if an element is transparent to hit testing, should it still be in the list? |
| 10:31 | <annevk> | where should it be in the list? |
| 10:31 | <marcosc> | annevk, one day we will convince mounir that there is only one true tool for spec writing :) |
| 10:32 | <annevk> | mounir is a co-chair now, he doesn't have to entertain the thought of spec writing anymore :p |
| 10:32 | heycam | wonders where this idea of co-chairing and not having to do spec writing comes from :) |
| 10:32 | <marcosc> | annevk pioneered that, heycam |
| 10:33 | <zcorpan> | it seems the stated problem can be solved by setting pointer-events:none on the top-most element and calling elementFromPoint or caretPositionFromPoint again |
| 10:33 | <marcosc> | heycam: annevk also told me that if we got on the TAG, we could lounge around all day by the beach and just get paid. |
| 10:33 | <marcosc> | :) |
| 10:36 | <annevk> | zcorpan: on the element returned? |
| 10:36 | <zcorpan> | annevk: yeah |
| 10:37 | <annevk> | zcorpan: yeah, I guess at some point you might want to have things like "ignore pointer-events, ignore transparancy, ..." |
| 10:37 | <zcorpan> | annevk: similar to the current workarounds that remove or hide the element, but without any visual glitch |
| 10:37 | <annevk> | zcorpan: which the dictionary will help with |
| 10:37 | <heycam> | marcosc, ha |
| 10:38 | <zcorpan> | annevk: do you mean that you would want to get an element even if it is transparent or has pointer-events:none ? |
| 10:40 | <annevk> | zcorpan: yeah maybe, would have to study hit testing APIs out there |
| 10:43 | zcorpan | finds http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/HTML5/HitTest/ |
| 11:00 | <hsivonen> | wondering if I should file a bug to make Thunderbird and SeaMonkey always send email as UTF-8 |
| 11:01 | <hsivonen> | surely everyone can receive UTF-8 these days |
| 11:01 | <hsivonen> | (except maybe Hixie on pine) |
| 11:01 | <annevk> | yeah I'm not sure why that hasn't happened, but I'm thinking there might be some legacy out there in Japan and such on phones |
| 11:02 | <annevk> | so that if you want your friend to be able to read the email, it better use the right encoding... |
| 11:04 | <hsivonen> | I think we should find out |
| 11:04 | hsivonen | is generally annoyed by not doing stuff because of *maybe* weird stuff in Japan |
| 11:05 | jgraham | also uses (al)pine (sometimes) fwiw |
| 11:05 | <hsivonen> | (actual weird stuff anywhere is another thing) |
| 11:05 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: how does it deal with incoming UTF-8? |
| 11:05 | <jgraham> | I don't reacall having character encoding issues |
| 11:05 | <jgraham> | But I haven't exactly tested |
| 11:05 | <hsivonen> | alpine was written in the mid-2000s, so it would be shameful for it not to support UTF-8 |
| 11:06 | <hsivonen> | I guess I'll file the bug and see what happens to it |
| 11:07 | <annevk> | +1 |
| 11:08 | <marcosc> | annevk: any chance http://*.spec.whatwg.org could be CORS enabled? |
| 11:10 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Incoming UTF-8 seems to work fine |
| 11:10 | <annevk> | marcosc: yeah I guess |
| 11:10 | <odinho> | marcosc: Or at least fetch? :P |
| 11:10 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: great |
| 11:10 | <marcosc> | odinho: all would be nice :) |
| 11:11 | <marcosc> | annevk: should I file a bug somewhere? |
| 11:11 | <odinho> | I was just thinking about doogfooding. |
| 11:11 | <odinho> | Minus one o. |
| 11:11 | <marcosc> | fetching fetch? |
| 11:11 | <marcosc> | :) |
| 11:15 | <annevk> | so what's the way to make this work? |
| 11:15 | <annevk> | well, is there a simple way to add a header to the output of an entire domain |
| 11:16 | <annevk> | in fact, does .htaccess take effect if you put it above the directory the site is served from? |
| 11:18 | <jgraham> | annevk: No, but you can put it in the root, or change the apache config |
| 11:18 | <jgraham> | (the documentroot I mean) |
| 11:20 | <annevk> | stupid console |
| 11:20 | <annevk> | shows 304, but does not give a way to show what was actually returned from the cache |
| 11:21 | <annevk> | jgraham: so it does actually |
| 11:22 | <annevk> | marcosc: everything but dom.spec.whatwg.org now has Access-Control-Allow-Origin:* |
| 11:22 | <hsivonen> | bug filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=862292 |
| 11:22 | <marcosc> | thanks annevk! |
| 11:22 | <marcosc> | how come not dom? |
| 11:22 | <annevk> | by adding "Header set Access-Control-Allow-Origin *" to a .htaccess file shared across the domains |
| 11:23 | <annevk> | marcosc: I need to fix that one separately unfortunately |
| 11:23 | <annevk> | but should be easy |
| 11:23 | <marcosc> | np, thanks for doing that :) |
| 11:24 | <marcosc> | annevk: works well (confirmed with http://marcoscaceres.github.io/bib_entry_maker/) |
| 11:24 | <jgraham> | Holy crap it does |
| 11:24 | <jgraham> | That's insane |
| 11:25 | <annevk> | DOM has it too now |
| 11:26 | <marcosc> | need to add all these references to Respec ... normative references to Living Standards For. The. Win...! |
| 11:42 | <hsivonen> | when do blobs get garbage collected if revokeObjectURL is not called? |
| 11:57 | <zcorpan> | i wonder how to define offset* for <col>/<colgroup> |
| 12:02 | <zcorpan> | is it sufficient to say that elements with computed value of 'display' of 'table-column' and 'table-column-group' must be considered to be CSS layout boxes for the purpose of the offset* attributes? |
| 12:04 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen, annevk : I did used to be that the mail clients on a lot of Japanese keitai did not support UTF-8 but I don't think that's the case any longer |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | it used to be that many did not even have fonts with glyphs for latin characters that have diacritical marks and such, non-ascii |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | but I think that's not that case any longer either |
| 12:06 | <MikeSmith> | lacking those glyphs it didn't matter much how a message was encoded anyway, because you wouldn't be able to read it regardless |
| 12:16 | <darobin> | marcosc: you use [[\Foo]] |
| 12:17 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I suspect when everything else is collected |
| 12:17 | <annevk> | hsivonen: although that might break fastback? |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | okay, so merging redirect fetch and CORS fetch was not a good idea :/ |
| 12:51 | <karlcow> | [07:07] * hsivonen is generally annoyed by not doing stuff because of *maybe* weird stuff in Japan |
| 12:52 | <karlcow> | I have the feeling is a combination of technology/culture at a certain point in space/time. |
| 12:52 | <karlcow> | I wonder what are the constraints on low-end phones in other territories |
| 12:54 | <karlcow> | maybe less an issue now given that the low end phones anyway are a lot more powerful than 10 years ago. |
| 12:54 | <karlcow> | bah |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | bah? |
| 12:57 | <karlcow> | ah. my 「bah」in a 「can't be helped」way. |
| 12:58 | <karlcow> | Shikata ga nai |
| 12:58 | <karlcow> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikata_ga_nai |
| 14:02 | <RobbertAtWork> | hsivonen: you did a lot of research on the HTML doctype in different browsers; is it a known effect that in IE6 the doctype is returned as comment node by getElementsByTagName()? |
| 14:02 | <RobbertAtWork> | hsivonen: freaks me out |
| 14:02 | <RobbertAtWork> | hsivonen: http://robbertbroersma.nl/demo/html5-ie6/ alerts "#comment" in IE6 |
| 14:03 | <marcosc> | darobin: thanks! |
| 14:03 | <marcosc> | Ms2ger: see! darobin made something clever :) |
| 14:04 | <RobbertAtWork> | hsivonen: it's not IE6 only by the way, it's IE8 as well |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | RobbertAtWork: I think that was a known quirk of their old parser |
| 14:07 | <RobbertAtWork> | annevk: I see. Never knew I had to filter getElementsByTagName() results by nodeType |
| 14:08 | <annevk> | RobbertAtWork: http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1137740632&count=1 |
| 14:08 | <annevk> | RobbertAtWork: has some related fun stuff |
| 14:11 | <RobbertAtWork> | annevk: thanks! |
| 14:20 | <Ms2ger> | marcosc, unpossible |
| 14:59 | <karlcow> | "Use the glass://map URI to request a map." — developers.google.com/glass/location :( |
| 15:03 | <annevk> | It renders as an image? |
| 15:07 | <karlcow> | annevk: it seems |
| 15:07 | <karlcow> | <img src="glass://map?w=width&h=height&marker=0;latitude,longitude&marker=1;latitude,longitude&polyline=;latitude,longitude,latitude,longitude" |
| 15:08 | <karlcow> | width="width" |
| 15:08 | <karlcow> | height="height"/> |
| 15:08 | <annevk> | I wonder if they're using a full browser or a subset of sorts |
| 15:09 | <bholley> | Hixie: yt? |
| 15:09 | <annevk> | oh Java and Python |
| 15:11 | <bholley> | Hixie: am reading the spec correctly to mean that enumerating cross-origin DOM objects (Window and Location) shouldn't throw, but should instead return the appropriate cross-origin-accessible properties? |
| 15:11 | <bholley> | Hixie: that is to say, "get the raw properties and then filter"? |
| 15:13 | <annevk> | oh so everything is JSON |
| 15:13 | <annevk> | and JSON can include some raw HTML |
| 15:13 | <annevk> | that's some weird shit |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | smaug____: yo |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | smaug____: so upload progress events |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | smaug____: combined with a 307 |
| 15:19 | <smaug____> | meeting |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | smaug____: your argument is invalid |
| 15:23 | <annevk> | So Gecko does not seem to dispatch a progress event in that sequence... |
| 15:23 | <annevk> | Lets try setting up some stuff to make a redirect work... |
| 15:43 | <nimbu> | Dear whatwg http://tjvantoll.com/2013/04/15/list-of-pseudo-elements-to-style-form-controls/ is terrible is this specced somewhere? |
| 15:43 | <nimbu> | or are there plans to? |
| 15:44 | <annevk> | only long term |
| 15:45 | <annevk> | nimbu: latest is https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/blink-dev/ZAdZJWahyF8 |
| 15:45 | <nimbu> | annevk: thnx! |
| 15:45 | <nimbu> | long term!! |
| 15:45 | <nimbu> | long term we will have 100 new nasty pseudo elms |
| 15:46 | <nimbu> | ok i will see what i can do. |
| 15:46 | <nimbu> | thnx annevk |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | well you know, HTML has been around for almost 20 years now and parsing got interoperable about a year ago |
| 15:47 | <annevk> | but yeah, I'd love for this to get fixed |
| 15:48 | <nimbu> | yeah no thanks to some super human efforts |
| 15:48 | <nimbu> | we dont want to be there again |
| 15:51 | <marcosc> | darobin: might be a bug, but using [[\Foo]] shows up as [[\Foo]] in the spec :( |
| 15:55 | <darobin> | marcosc: it works here — pointer? |
| 15:56 | <marcosc> | darobin: http://runtime.sysapps.org/ |
| 15:56 | <marcosc> | search for [[\ |
| 15:56 | <Ms2ger> | 0x7fdde645398 |
| 15:56 | marcosc | waits for robin to point out some dumbass mistake that marcos made |
| 15:57 | marcosc | will find a way to blame Ms2ger |
| 15:58 | <darobin> | marcosc: shows up as [[HasOwnProperty]] here... |
| 15:59 | <marcosc> | darobin: what browser? |
| 15:59 | <darobin> | I blame whatever benighted browser you must be using |
| 15:59 | <darobin> | Firefox |
| 15:59 | <darobin> | what else? |
| 15:59 | <marcosc> | um, |
| 15:59 | <marcosc> | that one with the funny color circle? |
| 15:59 | <darobin> | more seriously I doubt that there's a browser difference here |
| 15:59 | <marcosc> | checking |
| 15:59 | <darobin> | or rather, not in processing |
| 16:00 | <marcosc> | yeah, that would be weird on the Web |
| 16:00 | <darobin> | I suspect you have a rather old ReSpec aggressively cached maybe? |
| 16:00 | <darobin> | it would be weird for something this trivial :) |
| 16:00 | <darobin> | yeah, works in Chrome here |
| 16:00 | <darobin> | I suggest you reload with extreme prejudice |
| 16:00 | <marcosc> | ok, thanks |
| 16:00 | <marcosc> | will do that |
| 16:01 | <darobin> | looks like your Chrome is pulling off a classic Opera |
| 16:01 | <marcosc> | aren't they the same? :) |
| 16:01 | marcosc | drumroll please |
| 16:01 | <darobin> | ka-ching |
| 16:03 | <marcosc> | darobin: one more tiny question... in section 3.3, why is the algorithm counting from 14? (i.e., picking up from counter in section 3) |
| 16:03 | <darobin> | hah, that's funny |
| 16:03 | <darobin> | I don't believe that's something that ReSpec is doing... |
| 16:04 | <darobin> | it's... weird |
| 16:04 | <marcosc> | mkay |
| 16:05 | <darobin> | fascinating |
| 16:06 | <darobin> | actually someone did add support for algorithm styling, for whatever reason |
| 16:10 | <blink-bot> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 16:11 | <darobin> | marcosc: I'm very puzzle about why the counter-reset doesn't kick in here |
| 16:12 | <marcosc> | darobin: yeah, I thought the markup was ok. About to look at the CSS |
| 16:12 | <darobin> | feel free to use a different class name |
| 16:13 | <darobin> | but there's something really weird going on in the styling there |
| 16:13 | <smaug____> | annevk: back |
| 16:13 | <smaug____> | haa haa |
| 16:13 | <smaug____> | good morning blink-bot |
| 16:13 | <marcosc> | darobin: yeah, gets more funky if you toggle "counter-reset: numsection" |
| 16:13 | <marcosc> | then it goes to 21? |
| 16:14 | <smaug____> | is that what dglazkov uses his 20% time for, being a blink-bot :p |
| 16:14 | <Ms2ger> | He's off half of the time |
| 16:14 | <dglazkov> | smaug____: I have no idea how that happened. Must've been drunk last week or something |
| 16:15 | <darobin> | marcosc: I have no idea who added that horrible style or why |
| 16:15 | <darobin> | I have half a mind to yank it |
| 16:15 | <darobin> | whoever did it didn't add a test |
| 16:15 | <marcosc> | ok, now it makes sense |
| 16:15 | <marcosc> | I'll change the class name |
| 16:15 | <darobin> | marcosc: that's what's weird: the counter-reset works once, but not the second time |
| 16:16 | <marcosc> | it's like because it's in a sub section it won't reset |
| 16:17 | <marcosc> | darobin: it breaks anyway for sub steps |
| 16:17 | <marcosc> | darobin: you should probably yank it |
| 16:18 | <marcosc> | darobin: see any step in "teps for processing an application manifest " |
| 16:18 | <marcosc> | "steps for processing an application manifest" |
| 16:18 | <marcosc> | even |
| 16:18 | <darobin> | marcosc: yeah, I'm going to pull it |
| 16:18 | <darobin> | just looking through history to figure out who added it |
| 16:19 | <marcosc> | git blame!!! git blame!!! :D |
| 16:19 | <marcosc> | we need a "git name and shame " |
| 16:22 | <darobin> | ok, I don't think anyone uses that |
| 16:22 | marcosc | updates the spec |
| 16:31 | <darobin> | marcosc: that particular weird piece of madness is now gone |
| 16:31 | <darobin> | it's a change grandfathered from something that came from v2 in HG |
| 16:31 | <marcosc> | darobin: thanks!!! |
| 16:31 | <darobin> | so, I blame hg |
| 16:31 | <jsbell> | darobin: new respec.js push? I note the list of "undefined definition" errors in the IDB spec is way down today. |
| 16:31 | <Ms2ger> | marcosc, did you mess with its references database? |
| 16:32 | <darobin> | jsbell: yes, I found that the missing definition detection code had an issue |
| 16:32 | <marcosc> | heh, Ms2ger not today :) |
| 16:32 | <darobin> | which I plugged |
| 16:32 | <darobin> | jsbell: I still need to look at your other problems |
| 16:32 | <darobin> | I wish people stopped having issues with the current WebIDL code though, it would give me time to actually make the WebIDL bits modern and nice and all :) |
| 16:33 | <marcosc> | darobin: users are the worst! |
| 16:33 | <marcosc> | :) |
| 16:33 | <darobin> | yeah, they want all sorts of shit :) |
| 16:33 | <marcosc> | takes all the fun out of writing code |
| 16:33 | <jsbell> | darobin: cool, thanks. The remaining errors list looks mostly legitimate; still interested in how to correctly reference an enum or interface member. |
| 16:33 | <jsbell> | WANT WANT WANT |
| 16:33 | <Ms2ger> | <dfn>? |
| 16:34 | <darobin> | jsbell: I'll look at that tomorrow, right now I've just finished doing my taxes and I need a beer :) |
| 16:34 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, also, IDB has issues with TypeError claiming to be a DOMException |
| 16:34 | <jsbell> | no rush |
| 16:34 | <jsbell> | ms2ger: in an "Exceptio table" ? |
| 16:34 | <jsbell> | +n |
| 16:34 | <jsbell> | or in the prose? |
| 16:34 | <Ms2ger> | Table |
| 16:35 | <jsbell> | We need to kill the tables |
| 16:35 | <darobin> | KILL THE TABLES |
| 16:35 | <Ms2ger> | Yes please |
| 16:35 | <darobin> | isn't that what Anssi's legacyThingie does? |
| 16:36 | <jsbell> | I'm waiting on https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21555 before replacing the exception tales with prose. |
| 16:36 | <jsbell> | tables. Can't type today. |
| 16:36 | <darobin> | jsbell: look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sysapps/2013Apr/0132.html |
| 16:36 | <jsbell> | Ugh, wrong bug link too... |
| 16:36 | <jsbell> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17681 |
| 16:37 | <darobin> | jsbell: so yeah, it looks like noLegacyStyle: true in the config will kill the tables |
| 16:38 | <darobin> | of course, that'll kill whatever content you were expecting to put there, too :) |
| 16:38 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, ... again |
| 16:38 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: ? |
| 16:39 | <Ms2ger> | ReSpec made the tables disappear a while back |
| 16:39 | <jsbell> | right, that's the problem with the IDB spec. Not all of the exceptions are defined in prose. |
| 16:39 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: I think you're thinking about exceptions |
| 16:39 | <darobin> | completely different problem :) |
| 16:40 | <darobin> | IDB suffered when ReSpec dropped support for WebIDL exceptions |
| 16:41 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, I am talking about exceptions, yes |
| 16:41 | <jsbell> | Yep, we're relying on { idlOldStyleExceptions: true } |
| 16:41 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, what are you talking about, if not exceptions? |
| 16:41 | <jsbell> | I was talking about exceptions too, so confused. :) |
| 16:41 | <darobin> | I think I should add a feature to do spec linting, that would also collect the editors' emails, and would email them insults when they're doing stuff wrong :) |
| 16:41 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: there are other tables, parameters and shit like that |
| 16:42 | <darobin> | those need to go as well |
| 16:42 | <darobin> | in the grand scheme of things |
| 16:42 | <darobin> | which is moving everyone to better specs and all |
| 16:42 | Ms2ger | suggests anolis for that |
| 16:43 | darobin | giggles |
| 16:43 | <Hixie> | bholley: i hope so, but wouldn't guarantee it |
| 16:43 | <Hixie> | annevk: how does filing bugs not work? |
| 16:43 | <darobin> | anyway, not that you fine people don't make for enjoyable conversation |
| 16:43 | <darobin> | but as I was saying -> beer |
| 16:43 | <darobin> | thanks for the laughs though Ms2ger ;) |
| 16:44 | <bholley> | Hixie: can you confirm on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=862380 when you get the chance? |
| 16:45 | <Hixie> | send me mail - i'm mostly afk for the next few days |
| 16:46 | <Ms2ger> | Tired from the sprint the last few days? :) |
| 16:48 | <Hixie> | you could say that |
| 17:03 | <annevk> | Hixie: dunno, I filed one manually |
| 17:04 | <Hixie> | what wasn't working? |
| 17:09 | <annevk> | Hixie: using the form from within Firefox |
| 17:21 | <annevk> | Hixie: seems to happen in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html |
| 17:22 | <annevk> | Hixie: tried to report a bug about blink |
| 17:30 | <annevk> | smaug____: see public-webapps I suppose |
| 17:31 | <smaug____> | k |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | I'm still a bit stuck modelling http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#fetching |
| 17:34 | <annevk> | E.g. synchronous / asynchronous sharing a code path is hard. |
| 17:34 | <annevk> | The user being able to cancel the request at any point, regardless of synchronous, is hard. |
| 17:35 | <annevk> | Upload progress tasks being able to spain several requests, is hard. Although I guess the same goes for normal progress tasks... |
| 17:36 | <annevk> | I'm very much cheating my way out of this engineering challenge by having a set of encompassing requirements that accompany the algorithm. |
| 17:36 | <annevk> | Sorry, meant to so I'm close to doing that cheating. |
| 18:12 | <Ms2ger> | Nothing new on http://tc39memes.tumblr.com/ lately... |
| 18:17 | <jsbell> | Ms2ger: https://twitter.com/FakeAlexRussell isn't enough funny for you? |
| 18:32 | <karlcow> | A proposal for unprefixing https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/?fromgroups#!topic/blink-dev/E0OkYhvF7q8 |
| 18:51 | <Ms2ger> | TabAtkins, people still haven't figured out that you can have requirements for multiple conformance classes? |
| 22:43 | <TabAtkins> | zcorpan: Having to one-by-one strip out all the elements for hit-testing until you hit the bottom is not a good solution. :/ |
| 22:43 | <TabAtkins> | zcorpan: Plus, it's actually technically wrong, since a child can be below a parent in stacking order. |