| 01:17 | <tantek> | alright, looks like a Selection.toString inconsistency |
| 01:21 | <tantek> | and this looks like the place to file a bug about it https://github.com/w3c/selection-api/issues (unless there's some other better place someone wants to suggest) |
| 01:22 | <tantek> | for anyone who is curious, here is a failry minimized test/demo page that illustrates the inconsistency: https://kartikprabhu.com/static/demo/selection-encodeURI.html |
| 01:23 | <tantek> | (aside: encodeURI helps expose the incosistency but does not appear to be the source of any of the problem) |
| 01:39 | <KevinMarks> | Original bug is from 2010 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10583 |
| 01:39 | <tantek> | that's only regarding one aspect |
| 02:00 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: if in the IndieWeb spirit I want to host my own personal IM solution that people can chat with me one-on-one in real time, are there good options? |
| 02:00 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: Ideally want to just have a chatbox on my personal site |
| 02:00 | <MikeSmith> | web-based |
| 02:01 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - sounds like a good ideal |
| 08:47 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: thanks much for having taken time to raise all the checker issues you did |
| 08:47 | <MikeSmith> | sorry it took me so long to get around to them |
| 08:47 | <MikeSmith> | I still have a couple more to fix |
| 08:47 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: thanks for fixing 👍 |
| 08:49 | <tobie> | annevk: wrt https://github.com/heycam/webidl/issues/260, I'm not sure I understand where in the grammar this is an issue. |
| 08:49 | <MikeSmith> | sigh I want to make a change to https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MicrosyntaxDescriptions but I’ |
| 08:49 | <MikeSmith> | ...I’m getting the “A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.” thing again |
| 08:50 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: annevk lemme know if you are able to view the wiki while logged in, without getting that error |
| 08:50 | <annevk> | tobie: can you write "serializer stringifier attribute href;"? |
| 08:51 | <annevk> | zcorpan: I can't seem to view the wiki |
| 08:51 | <MikeSmith> | ah ok |
| 08:51 | <annevk> | GPHemsley is in charge, but he's not around much so maybe someone needs to look into it |
| 08:52 | <annevk> | tobie: in any event, I'm okay with dropping the whole serializer thing and just make folks write toJSON() in their IDL but then we need to stop forbidding people putting toJSON() there and make that change instead |
| 08:53 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: I also get that error. Last time it helped to clear cookies. Now it did not help. :-( |
| 08:53 | <tobie> | annevk: oh! That's what you had in mind. I imagine the right syntax for that would be: stringifier attribute href; serializer = [ href ]; |
| 08:53 | <tobie> | annevk: but it seems we want to get rid of this AND no one implements it |
| 08:53 | <annevk> | tobie: yeah, bz mentioned that in the original issue |
| 08:54 | <annevk> | tobie: but I'm not going to add that with the whole serializer thing being in flux |
| 08:54 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: yeah I think the cookie-clearing thing might have just been a coincidence. In the past for me it just clears up by itself after some period of time. I am kind of wondering if this is some anti-spam measure gone awry |
| 08:54 | <tobie> | annevk: agreed. Was just trying to figure out what the exact issue was |
| 08:57 | <zcorpan> | GPHemsley: halp |
| 09:06 | <annevk> | If I want to write a couple of basic web pages that make use of the https://github.com/jsdom/whatwg-url library, what's the best way to do that these days and where can I read a tutorial? |
| 09:06 | <annevk> | I imagine copy-and-pasting the code is no longer the way to go here... |
| 09:07 | <tobie> | annevk: quick question before you start learning React and Webpack: |
| 09:08 | <tobie> | annevk: any idea what identifier is refered to in step 2 of https://heycam.github.io/webidl/#es-serializer |
| 09:09 | <tobie> | annevk: "the identifier of the serializer, and" |
| 09:10 | <annevk> | tobie: that might be a bug, seems like not all operations have an identifier |
| 09:10 | <annevk> | tobie: anyway, if we remove serializers that problem goes away |
| 09:10 | annevk | looks at Webpack |
| 09:10 | <tobie> | annevk: don't |
| 09:11 | <annevk> | It looks complex |
| 09:11 | <tobie> | annevk: yeah--I was joking |
| 09:11 | <annevk> | I really just need <script src=latestversionofjsdomwhatwg-url> |
| 09:15 | <Sebmaster> | annevk: browserify is a bit simpler |
| 09:15 | <Sebmaster> | It has kinda come out of fashion for some reason |
| 09:16 | <tobie> | annevk: you need babel for the conversion, imho |
| 09:16 | <tobie> | annevk: sadly not joking this time. |
| 09:17 | <tobie> | annevk: with the correct plugin depending on the flavor of ES this is written in. |
| 09:17 | <annevk> | tobie: I only need support latest browsers |
| 09:18 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: that looks okayish, still more work than I wanted to put into this |
| 09:19 | <tobie> | annevk: you still need one of those presets: https://babeljs.io/docs/plugins/#presets-official-presets |
| 09:20 | <annevk> | tobie: but why would I need Babel at all? |
| 09:21 | <tobie> | annevk: does your target browser support the "class" syntax? |
| 09:22 | <annevk> | My target browsers are nightly builds, so I guess |
| 09:22 | <tobie> | annevk: if they support all the syntax in: https://github.com/jsdom/whatwg-url/blob/master/lib/URL-impl.js |
| 09:23 | <tobie> | annevk: then you only really need something to resolve the require statements |
| 09:23 | <tobie> | annevk: in which case, browserify is fine |
| 09:23 | <annevk> | I'll find out I guess |
| 09:23 | <annevk> | If I get browserify working, someone else can layer additional dependencies to get older browsers to work |
| 09:24 | <annevk> | If I get it to work I'll put all the code up on GitHub |
| 09:26 | <Sebmaster> | annevk: should be able to do `npm i whatwg-url; echo 'window.MyURL = require("whatwg-url").URL;' > index.js; browserify index.js -o bundle.js` |
| 09:28 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: thanks, that would give index.js code access to MyURL which is whatwg-url? |
| 09:29 | <Sebmaster> | yep |
| 10:09 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: btw, if index.js ends up being empty, is there a better way of doing it? |
| 10:17 | <MikeSmith> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/41238350/why-is-safari-not-allowing-a-form-element-after-template-element is pretty odd |
| 10:18 | <MikeSmith> | bug in WebKit HTML parser |
| 10:18 | <Sebmaster> | annevk: how'd you access the URL instance? |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: as Url it seems like |
| 10:22 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: what you gave me is fine btw, I can just treat index.js as temporary resource and remove it afterwards |
| 10:23 | <Sebmaster> | annevk: I'm pretty sure you need something to expose the node module on window so you can access it "normally" |
| 10:26 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: okay, temp file will do |
| 10:28 | <annevk> | zcorpan: I can't review your PRs today looks like, have to fetch the kid |
| 10:29 | <zcorpan> | annevk: ok |
| 11:15 | <fourpie> | I have a question about mutation observers |
| 11:16 | <fourpie> | In https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#notify-mutation-observers, step 5.3 says "Remove all transient registered observers" |
| 11:17 | <fourpie> | but it doesn't say remove from what |
| 11:18 | <fourpie> | the surrounding text says "Each node has an associated list of registered observers", but I can't find a reference to a node in the algorithm either |
| 11:25 | <annevk> | fourpie: I guess it's reasonable to file an issue on that so we could clarify the language |
| 11:26 | <annevk> | fourpie: the meaning is some kind of global removal, remove any that exist whose observer is _mo_ |
| 11:26 | <annevk> | (not entirely sure how I'd clarify though) |
| 11:27 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: looking at the API for whatwg-url it doesn't seem like you log syntax errors somewhere, right? |
| 11:32 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: I guess I'd have to use URLStateMachine directly |
| 11:32 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: but that isn't exported |
| 11:36 | <fourpie> | annevk: I'm not sure what else (apart from a node) can hold a reference to a registered observer, but if they exist, "remove any that exist" sounds like removing every reference to it, whether it is from a node or not. Is that correct? |
| 11:36 | <annevk> | fourpie: they would be removed from the node |
| 11:37 | <annevk> | fourpie: the operation is basically asking to go through all the nodes and remove any whose observer is _mo_ |
| 11:38 | <fourpie> | ahh, I get it now, thanks |
| 11:40 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: I filed an issue |
| 12:08 | <zcorpan_> | botie: tell tantek Selection.toString should use the same behavior as innerText, though Selection.toString is not specced yet AFAIK. It's not super-clear to me how CSS's white-space processing works for this case |
| 12:08 | <botie> | will do |
| 12:09 | <zcorpan_> | botie: tell tantek https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#the-innertext-idl-attribute |
| 12:09 | <botie> | will do |
| 14:38 | <Ms2ger> | foolip, https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2109 |
| 15:01 | <Sebmaster> | annevk: yeah, not sure what API to put over that |
| 15:02 | <Sebmaster> | You should be able to require state-machine directly if you require("whatwg-url/lib/url-state-machine"), although I'd only recommend to hack something together since it might break in patch updates |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: could put some kind of flag on the URL record |
| 15:46 | <Sebmaster> | but then it doesn't match the spec anymore :( |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: ideally a list of syntax violation messages |
| 15:46 | <Sebmaster> | You could spec that :p |
| 15:47 | <Sebmaster> | And I'll happily add it |
| 15:47 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: URL records are an impl detail anyway |
| 15:48 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: I guess I could redefine syntax violations in that specific way, but hmm |
| 15:53 | <botie> | tantek, at 2016-12-20 12:08 UTC, zcorpan_ said: Selection.toString should use the same behavior as innerText, though Selection.toString is not specced yet AFAIK. It's not super-clear to me how CSS's white-space processing works for this case and at 2016-12-20 12:09 UTC, zcorpan_ said: |
| 15:53 | <botie> | https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#the-innertext-idl-attribute |
| 18:15 | <ajeffrey_> | annevk: Domenic: a question re the note at https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/browsers.html#the-session-history-of-browsing-contexts |
| 18:16 | <ajeffrey_> | it says "Each entry, when first created, has a Document. However, when a Document is not active, it's possible for it to be discarded to free resources. The URL and other data in a session history entry is then used to bring a new Document into being to take the place of the original, should the user agent find itself having to reactivate that Document." |
| 18:16 | <ajeffrey_> | can a Document be discarded even if user script has a reference to it? |
| 18:25 | <tantek> | hmm do we have any spec text anywhere for "Selection.toString should use the same behavior as innerText" ? |
| 18:25 | <tantek> | (sounds reasonable, and I can't think of any reasons why they should behave differently) |
| 18:30 | Ms2ger | looks |
| 18:30 | <Ms2ger> | Damn respec |
| 18:31 | <Ms2ger> | tantek, the spec for toString() is "See W3C bug 10583." |
| 18:31 | <Ms2ger> | So... technically? |
| 18:31 | <Ms2ger> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10583 |
| 18:33 | <tantek> | Ms2ger I feel like that bug is only about one specific aspect of toString |
| 18:33 | <Ms2ger> | c5 says "I'm working on this, along with innerText (it will be the same algorithm for both)." |
| 18:33 | <tantek> | innerText has a spec though |
| 18:33 | <tantek> | from roc |
| 18:33 | <tantek> | and I'd say this is the bug for toString: https://github.com/w3c/selection-api/issues/7 |
| 18:34 | <Ms2ger> | Whose summary links to that bug :) |
| 18:34 | <Ms2ger> | Anyway |
| 18:34 | <Ms2ger> | There's no normative text about toString() at this time |
| 18:34 | <tantek> | tests? |
| 18:34 | <Ms2ger> | Maybe in the next six years |
| 18:35 | <Ms2ger> | Not in wpt afaict |
| 18:46 | <Domenic> | ajeffrey_: I think it can be |
| 18:49 | <ajeffrey_> | Domenic: OK, so it's possible for a Document to be discarded, even though its browsing context isn't. |
| 18:50 | <Domenic> | ajeffrey_: yeah, I mean, I think that's correct from my reading, but this whole areas is a mess as we've previously discussed, so really what we should be talking about is the observable consequences and how different browsers behave. |
| 18:51 | <ajeffrey_> | Domenic: indeed. I'm trying to work out what to do in Servo, just to add another engine to the mess :) |
| 18:58 | <ajeffrey_> | Domenic: the main source of observable weirdness is that if we get the Document from an iframe, then navigate the iframe forward then traverse back, we may get a different Document or not, depending on whether the browser reclaimed the document while it was inactive. |
| 18:58 | <KiChjang> | is there a default value for the cancelable and bubbles attribute for Events? |
| 18:58 | <Domenic> | KiChjang: false |
| 18:59 | <Domenic> | ajeffrey_: yeah, and I guess the non-interop there is explicitly sanctioned by the spec, to allow for Firefox having a bfcache and others not. |
| 19:00 | <ajeffrey_> | Domenic: indeed. |
| 19:02 | <ajeffrey_> | Domenic: thanks! |
| 19:02 | <Domenic> | Yeah... wish I could be more helpful :) |
| 19:04 | <ajeffrey_> | Domenic: you are being as helpful as the spec allows :) |
| 20:51 | <smaug> | what is the file called in blink which defines default styling for html elements? |
| 20:51 | <smaug> | html.css I guess |
| 23:57 | <MikeSmith> | does anybody know why authors still use <link rel=apple-touch-icon sizes=...> |
| 23:58 | <MikeSmith> | are they putting it in only for users running some older Safari? |
| 23:59 | <MikeSmith> | or is it that standard <link rel=icon sizes=...> doesn’t work in current Safari? |