| 01:41 | <knownanon> | i need a friend(s) |
| 06:54 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: https://github.com/w3c/markup-validator/compare/master...XhmikosR:master?w=1 |
| 06:55 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 06:55 | <MikeSmith> | dang that’s a long changelog |
| 06:56 | <XhmikosR> | it's the whitespace changes hence ?w=1 |
| 06:57 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 06:57 | <XhmikosR> | should I keep tabs for indentation? |
| 06:57 | <XhmikosR> | it seems this repo is using tabs |
| 06:57 | <MikeSmith> | no don’t bother |
| 06:57 | <MikeSmith> | well if you have time |
| 06:57 | <MikeSmith> | I guess it is better to be consistent |
| 06:58 | <MikeSmith> | but that said, all this code it legacy stuff anyway |
| 06:58 | <MikeSmith> | so why do the PNGs show up in the CL? |
| 06:58 | <MikeSmith> | > htdocs/images/markup_validation_service.png |
| 06:58 | <MikeSmith> | > Diff not rendered. |
| 06:59 | <XhmikosR> | yeah the web interface doesn't load everything |
| 06:59 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: only dupe gif/png is v15445 |
| 06:59 | <XhmikosR> | how does the badge work? |
| 06:59 | <XhmikosR> | URI = http://validator.w3.org/images/v15445 |
| 06:59 | <XhmikosR> | Local URI = images/v15445 |
| 06:59 | <MikeSmith> | no clue |
| 06:59 | <XhmikosR> | doesn't specify the extension |
| 06:59 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 07:00 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 07:00 | <MikeSmith> | well W3C server use conneg |
| 07:00 | <MikeSmith> | *servers |
| 07:00 | <XhmikosR> | correction: there's also images/valid_icons which have both gif and png |
| 07:01 | <MikeSmith> | ah “Losslessly compress PNG files.” is why the PNGs changed |
| 07:01 | <XhmikosR> | I guess it should be left like that otherwise we'd need to redirect |
| 07:01 | <MikeSmith> | yeah I suppose so |
| 07:03 | <MikeSmith> | OK LGTM |
| 07:04 | <MikeSmith> | untested but not sure how to test it anyway |
| 07:04 | <XhmikosR> | I'll revert to tabs for indentation |
| 07:04 | <XhmikosR> | extra noise and it's not consistent for the repo |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | yeah that would be good |
| 07:09 | <MikeSmith> | anyway if you raise an actual PR for it I will review it and merge it and push it out to production |
| 07:09 | <MikeSmith> | with help from somebody on the W3C systems team to kick teh W3C Varnish caches |
| 07:10 | <XhmikosR> | and to verify we don't break anything with the gif images removal :) |
| 07:10 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 07:10 | <annevk> | zcorpan: how much of the ?wss variant tests of websockets/ actually work? |
| 07:12 | <zcorpan> | annevk: i think secure websocket doesn't work at all with wptserve (yet). But we used to run ?wss in Spartan |
| 07:16 | <annevk> | zcorpan: but constants.js doesn't use the secure port because secure sockets doesn't work, but then the tests still don't actually work |
| 07:16 | <annevk> | I dunno, seems annoying |
| 07:18 | <annevk> | zcorpan: are there any cross-origin tests? |
| 07:22 | <zcorpan> | annevk: no |
| 07:23 | <annevk> | zcorpan: would they be hard to make? |
| 07:23 | <annevk> | zcorpan: I haven't really figured out the setup |
| 07:23 | <annevk> | zcorpan: I need something like opening-handshake/003.html but then to an IDNA subdomain |
| 07:23 | <annevk> | zcorpan: so I can test the origin field of the events (which doesn't appear to be tested at all) |
| 07:27 | <zcorpan> | annevk: seems like it shouldn't be hard. Changing constants.js to SCHEME_DOMAIN_PORT = 'ws://{{domains[www1]}}:' + PORT; seems like it successfully opens a websocket |
| 07:28 | <annevk> | zcorpan: it failed for IDNA |
| 07:29 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: I split the patches for easier reviewing. Feel free to squash and merge those after proper reviewing, especially for the removed files |
| 07:29 | <annevk> | zcorpan: I did new WebSocket(url.replace("://", "://IDNA.")) |
| 07:33 | <zcorpan> | annevk: SCHEME_DOMAIN_PORT = 'ws://xn--n8j6ds53lwwkrqhv28a.web-platform.test:' + PORT; seems to work for me |
| 07:33 | <annevk> | zcorpan: does it also work with non-ASCII input? |
| 07:34 | <annevk> | I wonder what's going on |
| 07:35 | <zcorpan> | annevk: Failed to construct 'WebSocket': The URL 'ws://天気ã®è‰¯ã„æ—¥.web-platform.test:50591/origin' is invalid. |
| 07:35 | <zcorpan> | annevk: I suppose the test needs to declare encoding |
| 07:36 | <annevk> | zcorpan: yeah, add that and it'll still fail (at least in my experience) |
| 07:36 | <annevk> | zcorpan: but in a different way |
| 07:38 | <zcorpan> | annevk: with <meta charset=utf-8> in opening-handshake/003.html it passes in chrome and firefox, if I comment out `assert_equals(e.wasClean, true);` (which is not relevant to whether open handshake was successful) |
| 07:38 | <zcorpan> | annevk: what fails for you? |
| 07:39 | <annevk> | zcorpan: okay if I get back to you in a bit? |
| 07:39 | <zcorpan> | sure |
| 07:47 | <annevk> | For BroadcastChannel Fx already did ASCII weirdly enough |
| 07:48 | <annevk> | Okay, back to WebSocket |
| 07:50 | <annevk> | zcorpan: it works for me too now |
| 07:51 | <annevk> | zcorpan: I suspect I had ?wss there still or some such |
| 07:51 | <zcorpan> | annevk: ok, great! |
| 07:52 | <MikeSmith> | XhmikosR: thanks will take a look |
| 08:21 | <MikeSmith> | XhmikosR: thanksーdeployed to production |
| 08:21 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: did you regenerate the minified files? |
| 08:22 | <MikeSmith> | no |
| 08:22 | <MikeSmith> | dunno how |
| 08:22 | <XhmikosR> | there's a makefile |
| 08:22 | <MikeSmith> | is there are target for that in the makefile? |
| 08:22 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:22 | <XhmikosR> | I skipped this because I thought you guys do it |
| 08:22 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:30 | <MikeSmith> | XhmikosR: OK did that too |
| 08:31 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: all seems to be ok |
| 08:31 | <XhmikosR> | one thing I couldn't change due to the way things are done is this |
| 08:31 | <XhmikosR> | <style type="text/css" media="all"> |
| 08:31 | <XhmikosR> | @import "./style/base"; |
| 08:31 | <XhmikosR> | </style> |
| 08:31 | <XhmikosR> | this should be a link |
| 08:31 | <MikeSmith> | hmm yeah dunno why it is that way |
| 08:32 | <XhmikosR> | and perhaps add the favicon to the repo so that it's not served from w3.org |
| 08:32 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 08:32 | <MikeSmith> | that would be good yeah |
| 08:34 | <XhmikosR> | I'm not familiar with the src in order to make these changes myself |
| 08:35 | <MikeSmith> | I’m not either |
| 08:35 | <MikeSmith> | nobody else around now is either |
| 08:35 | <XhmikosR> | also are you sure the assets are being flushed? |
| 08:36 | <XhmikosR> | for js combined I see last modified Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:45:55 GMT |
| 08:36 | <XhmikosR> | and for the css |
| 08:36 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 08:36 | <XhmikosR> | basically all assets |
| 08:36 | <MikeSmith> | yeah I need systems team to do the Varnish thing |
| 08:37 | <XhmikosR> | oh ok then what we see live is the old stuff |
| 08:38 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:39 | <MikeSmith> | there is some mechanism that I can supposedly use myself to purge teh caches |
| 08:39 | <MikeSmith> | but every time I’ve tried it it seems to have no effect |
| 08:40 | <MikeSmith> | so I just wait til somebody who has perms can do it however they do |
| 08:45 | <MikeSmith> | XhmikosR: check again later and if they haven’t been updated by tomorrow lemme know |
| 08:46 | <MikeSmith> | during May some people are off or only partially around |
| 08:48 | <XhmikosR> | cool, I'll see if I can drop @import |
| 08:51 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 08:52 | <XhmikosR> | maybe some of the branches could be removed if merged? |
| 08:53 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: https://github.com/w3c/markup-validator/compare/master...XhmikosR:master but it's totally untested |
| 08:58 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 09:00 | <XhmikosR> | are there any tests we could run to verify we don't break anything? |
| 09:01 | <XhmikosR> | in theory my changes shouldn't break anything but I'd feel more confident if we could verify it |
| 09:02 | <MikeSmith> | if tehre were tests I guess there would be targets in the makefile |
| 09:04 | <XhmikosR> | test: |
| 09:04 | <XhmikosR> | misc/testsuite/harness.py --validator_uri=$(VALIDATOR_URI) run |
| 09:05 | <MikeSmith> | > AttributeError: 'ValidatorTestCase' object has no attribute '_cleanups' |
| 09:05 | <MikeSmith> | > Makefile:43: recipe for target 'test' failed |
| 09:06 | <XhmikosR> | the src is a mess :/ |
| 09:06 | <MikeSmith> | yup |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | this is the reason I never look at it |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | anyway https://github.com/w3c/markup-validator/compare/master...XhmikosR:master LGTM |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | I have no reason to expect it would not work as expected ni production |
| 09:09 | <XhmikosR> | me neither |
| 09:09 | <XhmikosR> | I have one more patch: switched to https for all http://validator.w3.org/ refs |
| 09:09 | <MikeSmith> | ah good yes please |
| 09:10 | <XhmikosR> | verifying we don't break anything |
| 09:10 | <XhmikosR> | total mess |
| 09:10 | <XhmikosR> | for example |
| 09:10 | <XhmikosR> | <xsl:param name="host" select="'validator.w3.org'"/> |
| 09:10 | <XhmikosR> | <xsl:param name="self" select="concat('http://', $host, '/whatsnew.atom')"/> |
| 09:10 | <XhmikosR> | this would break |
| 09:11 | <MikeSmith> | oh man xsl |
| 09:14 | <XhmikosR> | and would probably break some tests |
| 09:14 | <XhmikosR> | with referer and stuff |
| 09:15 | <XhmikosR> | on the other hand it should fix some things like the favelet over https |
| 09:16 | <XhmikosR> | hmm scratch that since there is a redirect anyway |
| 09:17 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: https://github.com/w3c/markup-validator/compare/master...XhmikosR:master |
| 09:17 | <XhmikosR> | if you still feel confident and take the resposibility, I can make a PR :) |
| 09:18 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 09:19 | <XhmikosR> | I also changed any URI encoded instances to https |
| 09:21 | <XhmikosR> | hmm why is htdocs\dev\tests\trailing-nul.html |
| 09:21 | <XhmikosR> | marked as binary in the diff? |
| 09:22 | <XhmikosR> | something isn't right |
| 09:22 | <XhmikosR> | hmm unless that's what it tests :) |
| 09:25 | <MikeSmith> | dunno but LGTM overall |
| 09:26 | <MikeSmith> | so please do PR it |
| 09:30 | <tobie> | What's the difference between the ECMAScript global object and the Primary Global Object if any? |
| 09:31 | <annevk> | tobie: Primary is the Window object, abstractly defined |
| 09:32 | <annevk> | tobie: I think we should get rid of the PrimaryGlobal extended attribute personally and require Exposed to always be used |
| 09:33 | <annevk> | tobie: that might be relatively easy cleanup if you want to do it, though will require lots of downstream changes, but those won't be hard |
| 09:33 | <annevk> | (and I'm happy to help out with downstream) |
| 09:33 | <tobie> | annevk: is there an open issue for this? |
| 09:34 | <tobie> | annevk: sorry: do you know of the top of your head if there's an issue open for this? |
| 09:34 | <annevk> | tobie: no |
| 09:34 | <annevk> | tobie: to the latter |
| 09:35 | <annevk> | tobie: I might have filed one though |
| 09:37 | <tobie> | https://github.com/heycam/webidl/issues/365 |
| 09:40 | <annevk> | tobie: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26425 |
| 11:37 | <XhmikosR> | on a side note MikeSmith, the CSS and JS files don't have cache busting of any kind |
| 11:38 | <XhmikosR> | also, it doesn't seem you guys redirect to https |
| 11:38 | <XhmikosR> | C:\Users\XhmikosR\Desktop>curl -ILl http://validator.w3.org/ |
| 11:38 | <XhmikosR> | HTTP/1.1 200 OK |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | XhmikosR: I think that might be intentional but I dunno |
| 12:04 | <MikeSmith> | XhmikosR: if anybody uses http://validator.w3.org/ to check a document with a non-obsolete doctype I have long ago made it redirect to https://validator.w3.org/nu/ anyway |
| 12:05 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: so those changes are not in httpd.conf in the repo |
| 12:06 | <XhmikosR> | I'm using for years https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/dist/.htaccess with some minor adaptations. I believe we should use this here too |
| 12:06 | <XhmikosR> | but since I don't know how you maintain this thing, it's just a suggestion |
| 12:21 | <smaug> | I wonder, given that Promises are an easy way to write jank-y web pages |
| 12:21 | <smaug> | should there be some way to schedule Promises in a different way |
| 12:22 | <smaug> | something like IdlePromise |
| 12:22 | <smaug> | or AsyncPromise |
| 12:23 | <annevk> | smaug: how did you arrive at that premise? |
| 12:24 | <smaug> | profiling Firefox devtools |
| 12:24 | <smaug> | and it shows up quite often |
| 12:24 | <smaug> | long promise chains |
| 12:25 | <smaug> | all resolved at the end of a microtask |
| 12:25 | <smaug> | which looks like async operation to JS |
| 12:25 | <smaug> | but from UA point of view is sync |
| 12:28 | <annevk> | smaug: are microtasks costly then? |
| 12:28 | <smaug> | annevk: that is not the point |
| 12:28 | <smaug> | point is running too much JS during a task |
| 12:29 | <smaug> | which means no user input can be processed, nor do painting etc |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | If you didn't want that presumably you'd use setTimeout(..., 0) |
| 12:30 | <smaug> | annevk: well, that complicates the code a bit |
| 12:30 | <smaug> | since one can't use the then() stuff |
| 12:33 | <annevk> | smaug: as I understand it a lot of libraries wanted to microtask-timing for their stuff so it would happen before paint, but I guess it's getting abused then |
| 12:33 | <smaug> | I can totally see reasons for the current scheduling |
| 12:33 | <annevk> | smaug: we could add more promise-based APIs though, for timers or run in next task, but it's unclear if those would see adoption |
| 12:33 | <smaug> | but I can also see reasons to have different kind of scheduling |
| 12:35 | <ondras> | Domenic: is it possible that jsdom's XHR would fail when sending ArrayBufferView instances? (works with .buffer though) |
| 12:35 | <annevk> | smaug: filing a bug against HTML seems reasonable if you want to further explore it |
| 12:36 | <annevk> | smaug: it seems you keep running into this, https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/512 has similar suggestions (something that doesn't block paint, but runs asap) |
| 13:50 | <MikeSmith> | XhmikosR: caches purged |
| 14:20 | <annevk> | hsivonen: pretty good thread you got going there: http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2017-May/thread.html#5389 |
| 14:27 | <annevk> | Even includes a couple of asides on file systems |
| 14:28 | <nox> | annevk: Is the tone always like that on this ml? |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | nox: I don't know, I don't read it often |
| 14:29 | <nox> | annevk: Good life choice I assume. |
| 14:30 | <annevk> | nox: I kinda would like to be more involved with Unicode at times, but the current process is just so closed it's not really worth investing time in |
| 14:31 | <nox> | annevk: If I ever get involved, it will only be to make Fitzpatrick modifiers apply on the baguette emoji to indicate how baked it is. |
| 14:31 | <annevk> | nox: Unicode also raises the "cannot publish as HTML flag", which makes me less interested |
| 14:31 | <nox> | annevk: You mean the dozens of PDFs? |
| 14:32 | <annevk> | nox: yes |
| 14:32 | <nox> | Yeah that's sad. |
| 14:32 | <annevk> | nox: with terrible xref etc. |
| 14:32 | <nox> | annevk: If only we had a plain text format with a precise definition of hyperlinks. :( |
| 14:32 | <annevk> | JavaScript switched recently and it's been so much better for collaboration |
| 14:33 | <annevk> | But JavaScript has the advance-by-in-person-meeting flag raised, which is also sad |
| 14:39 | <gsnedders> | foolip: how did you manage to repro the Edge flakiness on Edge 15? I can't get it to reproduce there at all? |
| 14:39 | <foolip> | gsnedders: I just reloaded in BrowserStack over and over |
| 14:40 | <gsnedders> | hmm, ok |
| 14:40 | <foolip> | It only took 5 or so tries to see it |
| 14:40 | <gsnedders> | foolip: I'm 99% sure this is a JIT bug with typeof HTMLAllCollection, FWIW |
| 14:42 | <gsnedders> | foolip: I couldn't get it to repro on BrowserStack |
| 14:42 | <foolip> | gsnedders: do you mean that there's some fast path where they forgot about the special behavior? |
| 14:42 | <gsnedders> | foolip: but it being a JIT bug dependent on previous executions make it unsurprising it went away trying to reduce it |
| 14:42 | <gsnedders> | foolip: well, in some sense, yes |
| 14:43 | <gsnedders> | foolip: though obviously the JIT compiler may not have such a fast-path explicitly there |
| 14:44 | <gsnedders> | foolip: I expect it type-specialises and then fails if it then sees some new document object it hadn't seen before? |
| 14:45 | <foolip> | gsnedders: your expectations are better than mine I think :) |
| 14:45 | <foolip> | gsnedders: did you reduce many of those for farre perhaps? |
| 14:45 | <gsnedders> | and jl, etc. :) |
| 14:45 | <foolip> | hej farre! |
| 14:46 | <gsnedders> | it's reliably failing on Edge 15 on browserstack for me |
| 14:46 | <farre> | hej foolip! |
| 14:46 | <foolip> | farre: waddayu working on? |
| 14:46 | <gsnedders> | (hej farre!) |
| 14:47 | <gsnedders> | foolip: completely consistent on 15, completely random on 14 unless devtools are open (which apparently disables JIT) |
| 14:48 | <farre> | foolip: currently timeout and/or requestIdleCallback stuff |
| 14:49 | <farre> | foolip: you? |
| 14:49 | <farre> | (hej gsnedders!) |
| 14:49 | <foolip> | farre: mmm, I guess requestIdleCallback is one where basically no shared tests can be written |
| 14:50 | <farre> | foolip: we have some in wpt |
| 14:50 | <foolip> | farre: Fullscreen, and generally web-platform-tests infrastructure, like the 2-way sync we have now. |
| 14:50 | <farre> | foolip: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/html/webappapis/idle-callbacks |
| 14:51 | <foolip> | farre: oh, much more than I would have guessed |
| 14:53 | <foolip> | farre: looks like callback-suspended.html is failing for us, I suppose that's not the most important of the lot? |
| 14:53 | <farre> | foolip: could be that I've written a crappy test |
| 14:53 | <foolip> | farre: unpossible |
| 14:53 | <farre> | foolip: I've had a hard time getting wpt running with chrome. |
| 14:55 | <farre> | foolip: for all browsers without some kind of bfcache, navigation should reload and have the test pass, but that might not be working |
| 14:56 | <foolip> | farre: I was looking at our imported tests that run in content_shell, not a full Chrome. differences are possible |
| 14:57 | <jgraham> | farre: I'm working on making that easier fwiw |
| 14:57 | <jgraham> | SHould be able to expose it through mach soon |
| 14:57 | <farre> | hej jgraham! |
| 14:57 | <farre> | jgraham: and that would be awesome |
| 14:58 | <gsnedders> | oh wait, Edge does its compilation off-thread, IIRC, so a JIT bug might appear even more randomly depending on whether it JITs the code before the broken call happens |
| 14:58 | <foolip> | gsnedders: trying to minimize? |
| 14:58 | <gsnedders> | foolip: trying to understand why I can't observe any randomness in 15 |
| 14:58 | <gsnedders> | foolip: I can't really minimize until I can repro it :\ |
| 15:00 | <gsnedders> | also we should really be using assert_in_array instead of assert_true(foo || bar) |
| 15:02 | <gsnedders> | I'm seeing it about 50/50 in Edge 14, and never in 15. |
| 15:05 | <gsnedders> | oh, no, finally seen it repro |
| 15:22 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: something isn't right |
| 15:25 | <XhmikosR> | MikeSmith: scripts/combined is broken |
| 15:25 | <XhmikosR> | styles/base is fine |
| 16:23 | <annevk> | jgraham: you should email dev-platform once done, if not already planned |
| 16:31 | <Domenic> | Anyone want to tl;dr the Unicode thread for those of us who are only slightly morbidly curious? |
| 16:34 | <annevk> | Domenic: folks seem okay with changing UTF-8 error handling, some don't think it matters how you error, and some are upset like I am |
| 17:21 | <jgraham> | annevk: I will |
| 18:14 | <ondras> | Domenic: after looking into jsdom's xhr::send, I conclude that it indeed fails when sending ArrayBufferViews. I would send a PR, but am not sure how to actually *detect* an ArrayBufferView subtype... what would you suggest? |
| 18:14 | <Domenic> | ondras: maybe a better conversation for the jsdom issue tracker or the #jsdom channel |
| 18:14 | <Domenic> | But anyway, ArrayBuffer.isView |
| 18:14 | <ondras> | ah, thanks a lot. |
| 19:00 | <jugglinmike> | JakeA: Do you have a moment to confirm my reading of the service workers spec? |
| 19:21 | <wanderview> | jugglinmike: he's at google I/O I think |
| 19:24 | <jugglinmike> | wanderview: ah, got it. I found help from Marijn over in #chromium |
| 19:24 | <wanderview> | I should probably lurk in that channel |
| 19:24 | <jugglinmike> | so many channels |
| 19:26 | <wanderview> | jugglinmike: there is a #blink too... |
| 19:31 | <jugglinmike> | oh boy |
| 19:40 | <gsnedders> | #blink is dead now, AFAIK |
| 19:40 | <gsnedders> | I mean it probably still has people in it |
| 19:40 | <gsnedders> | But I think officially it's dead |
| 21:35 | <AutomatedTester> | TabAtkins: was /deep/ dropped from CSS selectors ? |
| 21:36 | <TabAtkins> | Kicked over to https://drafts.csswg.org/css-scoping/#deep-combinator and spelled differently |
| 21:37 | <TabAtkins> | Note that it's still only in the static profile, which means usable in querySelector() in related APIs, not in CSS stylesheets. |
| 21:37 | <AutomatedTester> | TabAtkins I am interested in querySelector cases |
| 21:37 | AutomatedTester | goes to read |
| 21:38 | <AutomatedTester> | TabAtkins: thank you! |
| 22:07 | <Domenic> | Firefox got a name option for workers already; that was fast! :D |
| 22:51 | <wanderview> | Domenic: yea, baku jumped right on that |
| 22:52 | <Domenic> | It makes me happy when a vendor can file an issue, go through a relatively-fast standardization process, and have multiple vendors start implementing their idea within a month or so |
| 22:53 | <wanderview> | Domenic: I think having the tests helps a lot... with something like this writing the test takes longer than the impl |
| 22:53 | <Domenic> | :D |
| 22:54 | <wanderview> | anyway, hooray for the process working! |