| 00:00 | <ajeffrey_> | Ah, so the idea is that the iframe gets removed (and so it's old BC is discarded) and when it gets reattached, the node that it's being attached to isn't part of a document with a BC any more? |
| 00:02 | <ajeffrey_> | annevk: so the important step is https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/iframe-embed-object.html#the-iframe-element:insert-an-element-into-a-document |
| 00:03 | <ajeffrey_> | in that we're inserting into a document which doesn't have a BC any more. |
| 00:03 | <ajeffrey_> | cbrewster: ^ |
| 00:03 | <ajeffrey_> | or do I mean cgbrewster over here? |
| 00:03 | <cgbrewster> | thats me |
| 00:04 | <cgbrewster> | cbrewster was taken :( |
| 00:04 | cgbrewster | reads backlog |
| 00:06 | <cgbrewster> | ajeffrey_: ahh yeah that does make sense... now to figure out what that means for us |
| 00:06 | <ajeffrey_> | annevk: thanks! we can go back to #servo now :) |
| 00:12 | <annevk> | ajeffrey_: yeah, iframe insertion/removal is rather brutal |
| 09:54 | <smaug> | hmm, how could we fix Promise scheduling |
| 09:54 | <smaug> | to not cause jank |
| 09:54 | <smaug> | I guess we can't change the current setup, but perhaps AsyncPromise objects might not be so horrible |
| 09:54 | smaug | is starting to feel so bad about misuse of microtasks |
| 09:55 | <wfpkhc> | hello |
| 09:55 | <wfpkhc> | anyone here from the w3c? |
| 09:56 | <smaug> | MikeSmith ^ |
| 09:56 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: but if the question is about some spec, just ask |
| 09:56 | <smaug> | someone may answer |
| 09:57 | <wfpkhc> | hello |
| 09:57 | <wfpkhc> | well its a possible error in a specification |
| 09:57 | <wfpkhc> | listed on the - https://www.w3.org/standards/techs/html#w3c_all |
| 09:57 | <wfpkhc> | page is mentioned that the current standard is html 5.1 |
| 09:58 | <wfpkhc> | the standard can be found here |
| 09:58 | <wfpkhc> | the problem is when i implement the attributes on the button element - https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/sec-forms.html#the-button-element |
| 09:58 | <wfpkhc> | and then validate the output - the validator says "no no" |
| 09:59 | <smaug> | oh, don't ask about HTML5.* spec here :) WhatWG maintains the canonical HTML spec. |
| 09:59 | <wfpkhc> | ok sir , sorry |
| 10:00 | <wfpkhc> | do you know which channel i may speak with someone about this topic? |
| 10:00 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: if you implement any features from HTML and HTML spec from WhatWG and HTML5.* spec from W3C disagree, rely on WhatWG spec |
| 10:01 | <smaug> | browser vendors in general rely on WhatWG spec. |
| 10:01 | <smaug> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/ |
| 10:01 | <wfpkhc> | really? |
| 10:02 | <smaug> | really |
| 10:02 | <wfpkhc> | this is the first i have heard of this over the last 20 years of web development |
| 10:02 | <wfpkhc> | why does everyone then say "follow w3c"? |
| 10:03 | <smaug> | in validator sense? That is not clear to me, and I don't know whether the validator follows W3C spec or WhatWG spec. |
| 10:03 | <wfpkhc> | k |
| 10:03 | <smaug> | W3C spec is mostly an old copy of WhatWG's spec |
| 10:04 | <wfpkhc> | (wasnt trying to be rude or anything, its just that this is the first time i have ever heard of you guys) |
| 10:04 | <wfpkhc> | k |
| 10:05 | <wfpkhc> | do you guys have a validator? |
| 10:06 | <smaug> | I'm not familiar with them, but perhaps https://validator.whatwg.org/ ? |
| 10:07 | <wfpkhc> | lol really? |
| 10:07 | <wfpkhc> | your new too? |
| 10:07 | <wfpkhc> | :P |
| 10:07 | <smaug> | I can't care less about validators |
| 10:07 | <smaug> | (and I'm far from new ;) ) |
| 10:07 | <wfpkhc> | i love validators - because it removes alot of bulldust from peoples rubbish code |
| 10:07 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: what is the exact issue you have? |
| 10:08 | <wfpkhc> | the HTML 5.1 spec does not agree with the validator on W3C website sir... |
| 10:09 | <wfpkhc> | the validator keeps telling me im a "bad kitty" |
| 10:09 | <wfpkhc> | because im following the latest standard listed on the other part of their website |
| 10:09 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: but about what property? |
| 10:10 | <wfpkhc> | Attribute formenctype not allowed on element button at this point. |
| 10:10 | <wfpkhc> | https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/sec-forms.html#the-button-element |
| 10:10 | <wfpkhc> | but the standard (including yours i think) does |
| 10:10 | <wfpkhc> | https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/form-elements.html#the-button-element |
| 10:10 | <smaug> | yup |
| 10:11 | <wfpkhc> | see the problem :P |
| 10:12 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: what kind of web page do you have? Do you have minimal web page showing the issue? |
| 10:12 | <wfpkhc> | omg |
| 10:12 | <wfpkhc> | same wiht your validator - i just tried it and it does not like my code |
| 10:12 | <wfpkhc> | im doing a basic test code |
| 10:12 | <wfpkhc> | what pastebin do you prefer? |
| 10:13 | <smaug> | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/ happens to be ad free |
| 10:13 | wfpkhc | frowns at mozilla but will use it anyway |
| 10:14 | <wfpkhc> | https://pastebin.mozilla.org/9025874 |
| 10:16 | <wfpkhc> | im building an element/component framework in php to handle php in OOP so that my php code doesnt look like a spagetti code base of mish mash |
| 10:16 | <wfpkhc> | and in the process of testing it - i have found this issue |
| 10:18 | <wfpkhc> | * to handle html 5.X in oop format (sorry correction) |
| 10:23 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: couldn't immediately see what the validator issue is. I thought first that it is because of the missing <form> element, but maybe not |
| 10:26 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: oh, wait, is it because of button type... |
| 10:27 | <wfpkhc> | so it must be nested? |
| 10:27 | <wfpkhc> | in the form? |
| 10:27 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: yes, type=submit |
| 10:27 | <smaug> | in button |
| 10:27 | <smaug> | and form attribute needs to refer to a form element etc |
| 10:27 | <wfpkhc> | as i understand sir, the button element can be outside of a form in html5 |
| 10:28 | <smaug> | sure, but form attribute needs to refer to a form element |
| 10:28 | <smaug> | and those attributes you're trying to use are valid in authoring sense only when type is submit |
| 10:29 | <wfpkhc> | well sir, i just dropped a "form" tag into that code - plain and simple and it still died |
| 10:30 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: did you change type to submit? |
| 10:30 | <smaug> | in button element |
| 10:30 | <wfpkhc> | no sir - im testing just a button element |
| 10:30 | <wfpkhc> | see a button element doesnt /shouldnt HAVE TO BE inside a form element |
| 10:31 | <wfpkhc> | after all - what if i wish to onClick and raise an alert |
| 10:31 | <wfpkhc> | i should not have to be |
| 10:31 | <wfpkhc> | inside a form for that |
| 10:31 | <wfpkhc> | wait |
| 10:31 | <wfpkhc> | i have it wrong - because |
| 10:31 | <wfpkhc> | the formaction attribute |
| 10:32 | <wfpkhc> | is causing the validation loss |
| 10:32 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: you have type=button |
| 10:32 | <smaug> | should be type=submit |
| 10:33 | <wfpkhc> | yes sir |
| 10:33 | <wfpkhc> | THAT is it |
| 10:33 | <wfpkhc> | im migrating away from w3c |
| 10:33 | <wfpkhc> | to this channel :P |
| 10:34 | <wfpkhc> | i dont like how microsoft is in on the w3c |
| 10:34 | <wfpkhc> | that has driven me away |
| 10:34 | wfpkhc | hugs smaug |
| 10:34 | <wfpkhc> | thank you so much sir |
| 10:34 | <wfpkhc> | you have not only helped me solve this issue |
| 10:34 | <wfpkhc> | you have helped me with my issue of WTF do i do now that MS is involved in the w3c |
| 10:35 | <wfpkhc> | i have an alternative |
| 10:35 | <wfpkhc> | i must go sir |
| 10:35 | <wfpkhc> | but just wanted to say a big thank you not just for this but for all the other work in the world you may or may not be apart of |
| 10:36 | <wfpkhc> | and under no circumstances ever give up - because there are people out there that are counting on you who cannot do what you guys do |
| 10:36 | wfpkhc | runs away |
| 11:43 | wfpkhc | wonders on into the channel |
| 11:43 | <wfpkhc> | hello again |
| 11:44 | wfpkhc | sits quietly in the corner of the irc channel waiting for someone |
| 11:46 | <wfpkhc> | hmmm |
| 11:46 | <wfpkhc> | guess no-one is around... |
| 11:47 | wfpkhc | sits and watches as the tumbleweed blows across the irc channel floor* |
| 11:49 | <wfpkhc> | if anyone is around - i have a question about the html5 standard |
| 11:51 | wfpkhc | continues to sit quietly* |
| 11:52 | <sknebel> | wfpkhc: don't complain about quiet, just ask. if someone knows the answer and sees it they'll answer, people are way less likely to react to general noise |
| 11:52 | wfpkhc | waves hello to sknebel |
| 11:53 | <wfpkhc> | hello sir |
| 11:53 | <wfpkhc> | i was speaking to mr smaug earlier :P |
| 11:53 | <wfpkhc> | about whatwg and w3c - and i have jumped ship and have come here :P |
| 11:53 | <wfpkhc> | my question is |
| 11:53 | <wfpkhc> | https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/sec-forms.html#the-button-element vs https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/form-elements.html#the-button-element |
| 11:54 | <wfpkhc> | the w3c has a "menu" |
| 11:54 | <wfpkhc> | attribute, but whatwg does not - which one is correct and why? |
| 11:55 | <wfpkhc> | and why is one implemented vs left out |
| 11:56 | wfpkhc | sits quietly and patiently |
| 11:58 | <wfpkhc> | and if smaug is reading this- just tried the input date thingy - didnt work on my browser either |
| 11:58 | <wfpkhc> | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input/date |
| 11:58 | <wfpkhc> | (didnt get the fortnightly though, just the version i have with "check update" |
| 11:58 | <smaug> | wfpkhc: I said Nightly |
| 11:59 | <wfpkhc> | oh your alive! |
| 11:59 | wfpkhc | hugs smaug |
| 11:59 | <wfpkhc> | hello sir |
| 11:59 | <wfpkhc> | i dont know how to get the nightly sir |
| 12:00 | <wfpkhc> | but i humbly give thanks to the mozilla team for finally implementing it....i have been waiting FOREVER for it :P |
| 12:03 | <wfpkhc> | sorry if i have offended you smaug sir |
| 12:03 | wfpkhc | sits quietly |
| 12:03 | <smaug> | you didn't |
| 12:04 | <wfpkhc> | ok then thats cool - you just went all quiet on me is all |
| 12:05 | <wfpkhc> | is there place i can recommend to re-write javascript from the ground up? |
| 12:06 | <wfpkhc> | :) and for it to be possibly implemented in browsers? |
| 12:06 | <wfpkhc> | or am i barking up the wrong tree? |
| 12:07 | <wfpkhc> | is that one of those things in life - where better of not opening that can of worms? |
| 12:08 | wfpkhc | sits quietly |
| 12:09 | <wfpkhc> | omg i just read this |
| 12:09 | <wfpkhc> | https://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/5swe9b/what_is_the_difference_between_the_w3c_and_the/ |
| 12:09 | <wfpkhc> | One of the more recent high-profile forks of this was their latest attempt to copy the WHATWG HTML Standard to create "HTML 5.1". This is widely recognized as a disaster, as the team of editors maintaining that document generally does not read or understand the content they are copying, leading to widespread errors and inconsistencies. |
| 12:09 | <wfpkhc> | i so agree with that |
| 12:09 | <wfpkhc> | comment |
| 12:09 | <wfpkhc> | currently it is a disaster |
| 12:10 | <wfpkhc> | so is it definitely safe to say that WhatWG is the one followed by FF and not W3C? |
| 12:11 | <wfpkhc> | ill just go then :( |
| 12:11 | <wfpkhc> | bye |
| 12:12 | <nox> | That was an epic journey. |
| 12:19 | <nox> | http://w3c.github.io/html/ So they again removed all authors, btw? |
| 12:21 | <nox> | Ah no it's in acknowledgments I'm dumb. |
| 12:34 | <Guest80480> | is anyone working on polyfill for CSS Shadow Parts https://tabatkins.github.io/specs/css-shadow-parts/ ? |
| 13:56 | <sangwhan> | @annevk: after locking the thread, was there any further discussion on obsoleting shared workers in favor of service workers with implementors? |
| 16:32 | <TabAtkins> | I... I think that person hated both Moz *and* MS? For some reason? |
| 17:31 | <virmaha> | Hello. If I've a static video url, how can I determine if I can use it as a mediasource? |
| 17:40 | <virmaha> | TabAtkins: any idea? |
| 17:48 | <TabAtkins> | virmaha: I've never used the MediaSource API, but https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/MediaSource seems fairly comprehensive. |
| 17:50 | <virmaha> | TabAtkins: yeah I am familiar with that link. more research says that only fragmented mp4 files can be used as mediasource |
| 17:51 | <virmaha> | though I am wondering if there's non fragmented file, how can browser play the video almost instantly? |
| 17:53 | <annevk> | virmaha: if it doesn't need to be loaded all at once to be played |
| 18:08 | <virmaha> | annevk: yeah i saw that from network tab in chrome dev tools. My question is if that mp4 is not fragmented, how can browser get few initial chunk of data and start playing it? |
| 18:11 | <annevk> | virmaha: by having enough bytes to decode frames |
| 18:12 | <annevk> | virmaha: for media the browser also does some range requests, but I'm not super familiar with the setup of that |
| 18:14 | <virmaha> | annevk: I am still confused :S |
| 20:10 | <wanderview> | Domenic: we pushed our [replaceable] name worker property... it fixes the prettier site for us |
| 20:10 | <wanderview> | so I think landing the spec changes would be good |
| 20:34 | <virmaha> | https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=370927 How can I figure out mimetype from a video just as commentator 1 in the link? |
| 20:34 | <virmaha> | vlc player's codec detail wasn't much helpful |
| 20:51 | <Domenic> | wanderview: I think we landed the spec change, maybe the tests too; let me check |
| 20:51 | <Domenic> | wanderview: ah nope not yet. And you even reviewed the tests IIRC |
| 20:52 | <Domenic> | OK, and then they got merged. I'll land the spec, haha |
| 21:10 | <hsivonen_> | mystor: https://github.com/hsivonen/recode_rs/blob/master/src/main.rs#L258 |