13:08
<hendry>
an HTML document is living and needs to be maintained over time
13:09
<hendry>
though how is one supposed to express the "birth time", the original publication date of a document?
13:09
<hendry>
bbc news regularly runs into this problems since their URLs are pretty opaque
13:17
<Ms2ger>
<p>Original publication date: 1 January 1953.</p>
13:22
<hendry>
Guess meta date didn't take off for some reason or another
13:26
<annevk>
Yeah, that seems like the kind of thing you'd mention inline, perhaps using <time> if you're having a good day
14:09
<Soni>
does WHATWG define any algorithm to derive a name from/for a form?
14:10
<Soni>
for the purposes of text browsers/screen readers/etc?
14:10
<Soni>
(and my attempt at making a feature to quickly find the right form)
14:11
<Ms2ger>
There's the "name" attribute, but that's not really intended for humans
14:11
<Ms2ger>
I'm not aware of anything else
14:13
<Soni>
can form elements be outside the form?
14:13
<Ms2ger>
Sure
14:14
<Soni>
uh what
14:14
<Soni>
;_;
14:16
<Soni>
is there an algorithm for collecting form elements and attaching them to forms?
14:22
<Ms2ger>
https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#dom-form-elements is relevant
14:24
<Soni>
idk what I'm looking at
14:24
<Soni>
;_;
14:34
<Jessidhia>
"A form-associated element is, by default, associated with its nearest ancestor form element (as described below), but, if it is listed, may have a form attribute specified to override this."
14:35
<Jessidhia>
<form id="foo"></form> can be referenced from outside by, say, <button type="submit" form="foo"></button>
14:35
<Soni>
so just grab the element and find the parent <form>?
14:35
<Jessidhia>
but otherwise yeah, just looks for the parent <form>
14:35
<Jessidhia>
or the closest one at least
14:36
<Soni>
when I say "parent" I'm including grandparent etc, sorry
14:59
<annevk>
Soni: you have to walk the entire tree effectively to see if elements have a form attribute set
15:00
<annevk>
Soni: it's not just ancestors
15:00
<Soni>
yeah it's parents and ids
15:00
<Soni>
right?
15:01
<annevk>
depends on what you mean, but sure, sounds about right
15:18
<Soni>
basically for input/textarea/etc in document: if element has form: form = element.form if not form: form = find nearest <form> ancestor?
15:18
<Soni>
(what happens if the id pointed to by the form attribute doesn't exist or isn't a <form>?)
15:25
<annevk>
Soni: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#association-of-controls-and-forms describes the processing model in detail
15:26
<annevk>
Soni: iirc in that case it would fallback to ancestor search
15:47
<Soni>
okay
15:47
<Soni>
what happens if there are duplicated id?
15:50
<annevk>
Soni: I recommend reading the algorithms as it's likely using me as proxy will lead to mistakes
15:51
<Soni>
the algorithms?
15:51
<Soni>
they appear to be all over the place
15:57
<Soni>
annevk: idk where you found these algorithms I can't seem to find them
16:08
<imacinto>
is the "fr" unit explicitly defined anywhere? I'm assuming "fraction" but it seems like saying something is "2 fractions wide" or "2 fractional units wide" is imprecise. if that's just the way it is, that's fine, but this seemed like the right place to confirm :)
16:10
<annevk>
imacinto: https://drafts.csswg.org/css-grid/#fr-unit
16:17
<imacinto>
annevk: thank you! this is as close as I came to a definition. would it be accurate to say "fr" is an abbreviation for "flexible length"? my interpretation was different; that flexible lengths are measured in "fr"s, just like my pants inseam is measured in inches
16:18
<annevk>
imacinto: per the definition there I suspect it literally stands for fraction
16:19
<annevk>
imacinto: I don't really know grid layout though
16:22
<imacinto>
annevk: right on. I appreciate it, I'm clearly going a little crazy trying to find it spelled out explicitly, but I think this is as good as I'll get. I got to this spot before and scratched my head thinking "1 fraction" vs "2 fractions" but I suppose if you consider it "fraction of the leftover space in the grid container" things are a little clearer (although way wordier!)
16:24
<annevk>
imacinto: irc.w3.org's css channel can prolly provide more context
16:24
<imacinto>
annevk: I didn't know there even was one! that's great, thank you
16:25
<imacinto>
I looked at the editor contact info and got to tabatkins mentioning this room. I'll check over there
16:28
<annevk>
I see, Tab would know the answer though 😃
16:28
<imacinto>
hehe, yeah, I feel like the answer is in an email thread someplace
16:30
<annevk>
So revamping event loops is the only blocker for browsing context groups at this point \o/
16:32
<gsnedders>
annevk: just a small blocker!
16:34
<annevk>
gsnedders: I have a half-baked patch with lots of good input from Domenic; [it's-happening.jpg]
16:34
<annevk>
But yeah, fixing that up will take a bit of time
16:51
<Soni>
irc.w3.org is awful
16:52
<devsnek>
its kinda empty
16:56
<Soni>
it's plaintext
17:14
<TabAtkins>
Argh, people leaving quickly before I can respond. :(
18:42
<annevk>
TabAtkins: tell me 😊
19:19
<TabAtkins>
It's just "fraction of the free space", like the spec says.