| 03:29 | <Hixie> | well the css-discuss thread about <table> is pretty much everything i feared and more, and i haven't even updated the spec yet |
| 19:53 | <Xdega> | does anyone know who maintains this channel? |
| 19:58 | <Hixie> | Xdega: how do you mean, "maintains"? |
| 20:00 | <Xdega> | maybe |
| 20:00 | <Xdega> | heh |
| 20:00 | <Xdega> | well just curious if a link to the forums could be added |
| 20:01 | <Xdega> | forums.whatwg.org |
| 20:01 | <Xdega> | in the welcome message |
| 20:01 | <Xdega> | so i guess anyone that is able to edit the welcome message |
| 20:01 | <Hixie> | pretty much anyone is able to edit the message, i think, but we have so many links (blog, forums, wiki, spec, etc) that we just put them on www.whatwg.org/ and then link to that instead |
| 20:02 | <Xdega> | kk |
| 20:03 | <Xdega> | also looks like the facebook page is missing a link to the website even. Just a copy paste from wikipedia. (and no whatwg logo) |
| 20:04 | <Hixie> | we have a facebook page? o_O |
| 20:04 | <Hixie> | dunno who's running that |
| 20:04 | <Xdega> | aparently, lol http://www.facebook.com/pages/WHATWG/116109708402918 |
| 20:04 | <Xdega> | only 9 likes atm though. |
| 20:04 | <Hixie> | i don't even have a facebook account :-) |
| 20:05 | <Xdega> | that is awkward, cause it's not possible to make a page with the same name, and the person running the page is meant to be a representative of the grp or organization per facebooks terms |
| 20:05 | <Hixie> | i don't see how to change that page without making a whole facebook profile and stuff |
| 20:05 | gsnedders | should create an Ian Hickson public-figure page just to like that |
| 20:05 | <Hixie> | but anyone who does the facebook stuff and cares about this is welcome to do whatever is the appropriate thing |
| 20:06 | <Hixie> | feel free to make that your contribution to the community :-) |
| 20:06 | <Xdega> | well if i could find out who has that current page I would be more than happy |
| 20:06 | <Hixie> | doesn't it say? |
| 20:06 | <Xdega> | already working with the forums, trying to get them a little more active. I think facebook could be a good window |
| 20:06 | <Hixie> | cool |
| 20:09 | <Xdega> | well just submitted a report to facebook for a "fake page" If it gets removed I will make a new one heh. |
| 20:11 | <Xdega> | also trying to find a way to convert the mailing list to RSS feed, and then will work on implementing some kind of integration with Twitter RSS and Mailing list RSS on the forums :D |
| 20:13 | <Hixie> | neat |
| 20:54 | <Xdega> | so how would I go about getting access to submit an article for the WHATWG Blog? |
| 20:55 | <Hixie> | i should be able to do it but since we removed the admin link i don't remember the page to do it from :-( |
| 20:55 | <gsnedders> | Xdega: Can you not just create an account? |
| 20:55 | <Xdega> | not seeing the option >.< |
| 20:56 | <gsnedders> | Oh, "User registration is currently not allowed." |
| 20:56 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: Is that deliberate, do you know? |
| 20:56 | <Hixie> | not sure |
| 20:58 | gsnedders | doesn't really want to change that |
| 20:58 | <gsnedders> | Xdega: what's your email (pm is fine if you don't want it logged)? |
| 20:58 | <gsnedders> | Xdega: And choose a username. |
| 21:07 | <gsnedders> | Xdega: Just ask here when you want to publish something, then someone with admin perms should be able to publish it for you. |
| 21:07 | <Xdega> | ok. well i plan on writing an article later (maybe tommorow). I will let you guys know. |
| 21:08 | <Xdega> | although it appears I have the ability to click "publish" from the WP dashboard. |
| 21:11 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: I think it is deliberate |
| 21:11 | <jgraham> | Once you have an account you can publish |
| 21:11 | <jgraham> | But you have to ask for an account |
| 21:14 | <Xdega> | well time for me to bounce, thanks for the account. |
| 21:17 | <jgraham> | boing |
| 21:18 | Ms2ger | hits jgraham over the head with a balloon |
| 21:20 | gsnedders | watches jgraham get entagled in the balloon and float up and away |
| 21:21 | Ms2ger | gets his crossbow |
| 21:22 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: Trying to harm the opposition by making me have to work in the same room as that guy? |
| 21:22 | jgraham | gets out his bra-ket notation |
| 21:23 | <gsnedders> | Well, for the occasions when I'm in Lkpg :P |
| 21:23 | <Ms2ger> | You're a student. What do you mean, work? |
| 21:24 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: I work part-time for Opera. And when I work in an office, I tend to work in the same room as jgraham. |
| 21:26 | <jgraham> | Are you saying that when you go to the other offices you don't work? |
| 21:28 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: What do you think they do in Göteborg if not play Quake 3? |
| 22:08 | <smaug____> | (Stikki did sound immediately someone from Finland, even before noticing the domain ;) ) |
| 23:39 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: ping? |
| 23:39 | <Hixie> | here |
| 23:40 | <eric_carlson> | what is the rational for not having cues in the DOM? |
| 23:41 | <Hixie> | they are in the dom |
| 23:41 | <Hixie> | same as CSS and JS |
| 23:41 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: the text for the current cue? |
| 23:42 | <Hixie> | the text for the current cue of the first track of a video element /video/ is video.tracks[0].activeCues[0].getCueAsHTML() |
| 23:43 | <nessy> | it's not in the page DOM though, right? |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | it's in the page DOM just like CSS and JS is...? I don't understand the question. |
| 23:44 | <nessy> | as in - a cue could be added as a <div> underneath e.g. the <track> element |
| 23:45 | <Hixie> | ? |
| 23:45 | <erlehmann> | whyyyy would you do that? |
| 23:45 | <Hixie> | oh you mean putting the cues in teh page? |
| 23:45 | <Hixie> | i considered that but it seemed like most people would want thhe subtitles in a separate file |
| 23:46 | <nessy> | the idea is to parse the external file and upon parsing change the page DOM and add the cues in <div> elements |
| 23:46 | <erlehmann> | well, that would certainly be possible. but inline cues would be a mess. let's not go there. |
| 23:47 | <nessy> | why would they be a mess? |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | that makes no sense |
| 23:47 | <nessy> | (not necessarily saying I want that, but trying to understand the reasons) |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | why would something not in the page be in the page? |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | i don't think i understand the proposal |
| 23:49 | <erlehmann> | nessy, what would happen if track elements are in a video and in a div next to it? |
| 23:50 | <erlehmann> | in what order would video.tracks be filled? what if later the DOM changes? |
| 23:50 | <erlehmann> | what if the div with the tracks comes before the video? can tracks for one video also be used for another? |
| 23:50 | <nessy> | erlehmann: this is not the proposal |
| 23:50 | <erlehmann> | oh. i don't think i understand the proposal, then. |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | yeah me either |
| 23:51 | <erlehmann> | please elaborate, nessy. |
| 23:51 | <nessy> | erlehmann: the proposal is to parse an external file and to load the cues from that external file into the page and then ignore the external file |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | that's exactly what happens |
| 23:51 | <nessy> | like an iframe |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | the cues get parsed, just like js or css, into a dom structure |
| 23:51 | <erlehmann> | nessy, „into the page“? |
| 23:51 | <nessy> | ok, but right now we only add them to the IDL, not the page DOM |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | that's what video.tracks is |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | what's the difference between "the IDL" and "the page DOM"? |
| 23:52 | <nessy> | no, you cannot address it directly through CSS |
| 23:52 | <erlehmann> | i remain confused. nessy, what is video.tracks missing? |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | oh if you're talking about how you style it in CSS, then you use the ::cue pseudo-element |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | so in the page CSS you can say, e.g., viduo::cue(v[voice=narrator]) { color: red; } |
| 23:53 | <nessy> | sure, the question that is being asked here is why not put it straight into the page so we don't need a pseudo-element and can directly use a page element |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | well like i said, i did consider supporting having the cues directly in the page |
| 23:54 | <nessy> | e.g. video > track > cue |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | but it seems most people would want to use an external file |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | so i ended up not supporting that |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | we could certainly add support for in-page cues too i guess |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | if there's a good use case |
| 23:55 | <nessy> | the author wouldn't author them in the page - they would be authored in an external file |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | basically just define a maping of nodes to the Track API |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | you just said "having the cues directly in the page" |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | er, mispaste. you just said "why not put it straight into the page" |
| 23:55 | <nessy> | after the UA has parsed the file and included them into the page |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | wait wait wait, you're saying you want the VTT parser to actually parse into the HTML parser's output?! |
| 23:56 | <nessy> | yes - are there good reasons not to do that? |
| 23:56 | <Hixie> | sanity? |
| 23:56 | <Hixie> | i mean that would just be crazy |
| 23:56 | <nessy> | why? (sorry for asking the seemingly dumb...) |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | it would be completely inconsistent with everything the platform does with external files |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | it would prevent any kind of round-tripping of files containing links to cues |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | it would mean the DOM didn't reflect the markup even when no script has manipulated the DOM |
| 23:57 | <nessy> | iframes get rendered into the DOM, too |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | <iframe>s work exactly like cues |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | they are separate trees |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | that can be accessed via the DOM API |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | the child of the iframe isn't the iframe's browsing context's dom tree |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | that would be a security disaster |
| 23:59 | <nessy> | it's the round-tripping of links in the cue that would create the security disaster? |
| 23:59 | <Hixie> | i mean... if external cues went into the HTML tree, it would mean that an external cue file could affect form submission of unrelated forms, for example |
| 23:59 | <Hixie> | no the security disaster would be if iframes worked as you describe |
| 23:59 | <Hixie> | not for cues |