| 00:02 | <zewt> | heh, unreadable examples on msdn ... because, as usual, of someone using nonstandard tab stops |
| 01:41 | <MikeSmith> | "You are really good master. It’s easy and enjoying to work with you." |
| 01:41 | <MikeSmith> | He is indifferent to music of Kraftwerk. |
| 01:42 | <annevk> | Well that explains it, Kraftwerk is awesome |
| 01:54 | <annevk> | http://quuz.org/webvtt/ now with <title> and <h1> |
| 02:16 | <MikeSmith> | I made some personal fashion changes recently |
| 02:16 | <MikeSmith> | this is my new look: |
| 02:16 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.oneyeartrip.com/2010/04/isawa-onsen.html |
| 02:16 | <MikeSmith> | feedback welcom |
| 02:16 | <MikeSmith> | oops |
| 02:17 | <MikeSmith> | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_88RoabsTacs/S92ZA4h7NDI/AAAAAAAACZ4/VBy0WeKWj9U/s1600/IMG_2060.JPG |
| 03:27 | <jarek> | Hi |
| 03:27 | <jarek> | what's the correct way for implementing toggle buttons with HTML5? |
| 03:27 | <jarek> | I can't find anything like <button type="toggle"> |
| 03:28 | <jarek> | should I be doing it the old-fashioned way? (a couple of divs with click events attached to them) |
| 03:30 | <jarek> | but this won't work when uses keyboard for navigation |
| 03:33 | <jarek> | another idea is to have something like <button data-is-toggled="true">, but I would still need event listeners to to watch and update button state |
| 03:34 | <jarek> | s/uses/user uses |
| 03:43 | <Hixie> | jarek: <input type=checkbox> |
| 09:19 | <annevk> | why is string lastIndexOf not the same as array lastIndexOf |
| 09:19 | <annevk> | what insanity is this? |
| 11:06 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: so do the canvas test-suite changes to add testharness.js need to be reviewed by anybody other than Philip` ? |
| 11:06 | <Ms2ger> | Anyone who's interested, I guess :) |
| 12:18 | <annevk> | why does onhashchange not expose old and new hash rather than old and new URL? |
| 12:28 | <hsivonen> | hmm. the Reader version of Opera Mobile Labs allows getUserMedia go through without prompting the user |
| 12:29 | <hsivonen> | i.e. it turns on the camera without prompting the user |
| 12:29 | <hsivonen> | not cool |
| 12:41 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: "The device API does not have a user interface yet. This will be added soon. |
| 12:41 | <zcorpan> | These are proof of concept builds, and should be considered experimental and for developer use only." |
| 12:48 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: ok. I reported it as a bug anyway, because I didn't like having the camera turn on without permission |
| 12:50 | <hsivonen> | btw, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/blog//2011-10/2011-10-21.html is interesting as far as the implications of an "always allow" option goes for allowing a given origin access the camera or the microphone |
| 12:58 | <zcorpan> | abarth: so does script need crossorigin=""? would it break the web to include an Origin header for script requests? |
| 14:38 | <adtykfhyipoh> | Hey, is anyone here? I need help. |
| 14:39 | <divya> | ask adtykfhyipoh |
| 14:40 | <adtykfhyipoh> | Hey, I am building a javascript application, and I have an if statement, and in the condition, I need to know if one variable equals the value of any item in an array. How can I do this? |
| 14:40 | <divya> | array.indexOf(variable) |
| 14:41 | <adtykfhyipoh> | that might work I'll try it |
| 14:48 | <adtykfhyipoh> | thanks mate it worked |
| 14:48 | <divya> | np mate |
| 15:21 | <gsnedders> | divya: You need indexOf(foo) >= 0 or !== -1 |
| 15:21 | <gsnedders> | divya: [1].indexOf(1) === 0 |
| 15:22 | <divya> | gsnedders: yep, I just wanted to point what f() to use to adty |
| 15:22 | <gsnedders> | divya: Kinda unclear from what you said, though |
| 15:23 | <divya> | yeah probably :P |
| 16:10 | <_bga> | heh but new trend is ~a.indexOf :/ |
| 16:10 | <divya> | coz that looks like you know what you are doing even if nobody else does |
| 16:12 | <_bga> | divya its for waste your brain "tacts", each time you remember that ~-1 == 0 and Bool(0) == false |
| 16:14 | <divya> | hah |
| 16:15 | <zewt> | bga: i'd smack anyone who tried to put garbage like that in my codebase |
| 16:15 | <_bga> | :) |
| 16:15 | <zewt> | leave that crap to obfuscated programming competitions; it belongs nowhere else |
| 16:16 | <Philip`> | How about "if (1+a.indexOf(b))" ? |
| 16:17 | <_bga> | i have some patterns for string lookup |
| 16:17 | <zewt> | that'd also incite me to install an "upside the head" device in someone's desk |
| 16:18 | <_bga> | https://github.com/bga/jbasis/blob/77683e222909279548a1fdc3e3ee03d4c83d96b4/src/$jb.Url.js |
| 16:18 | <_bga> | >>> 0, ~(~a || ~b || ~c) |
| 16:19 | <_bga> | + 1 for lastIndexOf |
| 16:19 | <zewt> | __this $$code _$_is $somewhat _unpleasant ___to __$$$read |
| 16:19 | <_bga> | :) |
| 16:19 | <zewt> | return ~(~s.lastIndexOf('?', s.lastIndexOf('#') >>> 0) || ~s.length) <- yeah sorry this is bad :) |
| 16:21 | <_bga> | writing something like if(i < 0) i = s.length is annoing |
| 16:22 | <zewt> | write a helper for it |
| 16:22 | <Philip`> | return urlSubstringAfterQueryBeforeFragment(s); |
| 16:22 | <zewt> | that's what functions are for :) |
| 16:22 | <Philip`> | Easy to write *and* to read |
| 16:23 | <_bga> | zewt i made it when illed by "perfomance" |
| 16:25 | <_bga> | Philip` and you will have *alot* of fns, its not orthogonal |
| 16:25 | <_bga> | get intexes and slice is better |
| 16:25 | <zewt> | at least there are no yoda conditionals :P |
| 16:26 | Philip` | wonders why JS developers seem to focus so much on micro-optimisations like loop iteration conditions, rather than on profiling and optimising what actually matters |
| 16:27 | <_bga> | zewt i use _ prefix for fns to differ map which is hashtable from _map which is Array#_map |
| 16:27 | <_bga> | var a = a.map |
| 16:27 | <_bga> | what is that? |
| 16:27 | <_bga> | fn or data? |
| 16:28 | <zewt> | sorry, it's just hard on the eyes (and harder since there are both _functions and __functions) |
| 16:28 | <_bga> | __fn is private fn |
| 16:29 | <_bga> | zewt may be |
| 16:29 | <zewt> | bga: so use a clearer name ("mapping", "addressToUserMap", etc) |
| 16:30 | <_bga> | i do ir |
| 16:30 | <_bga> | *it |
| 16:58 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Because profilers for JS engines almost uniformly suck. |
| 18:02 | Philip` | wonders why profilers for JS engine almost uniformly suck, given the relatively large amounts of effort put into JS engine performance |
| 19:55 | <zewt> | Philip`: most profilers in all categories suck |
| 20:01 | <smaug____> | Shark is good. (Apple has managed to do something I like) |
| 22:25 | <jgraham> | Probably profiling jitted code is moderately hard |
| 22:26 | <jgraham> | At least you need to keep extra information around |
| 22:33 | Philip` | often feels that JIT people talk too much about how their clever dynamic compilation systems can produce code that's as fast as C, and ignore that practical performance optimisation actually depends on a feedback cycle between programmer and compiler, and that C/C++ are good for performance because that feedback cycle is pretty easy to understand |
| 22:34 | <Philip`> | (since they have adequate profiling tools and the compiler isn't too clever) |
| 22:35 | <Philip`> | I suppose working on profiling tools is less fun than working on clever compilers, though |
| 22:35 | <Philip`> | and doesn't help with benchmark results |
| 22:35 | <jgraham> | Yeah, that's what I was going to say |
| 22:36 | <jgraham> | Although maybe in the future it will be more important to have non-sucky profilers if games are going to take off in browsers |
| 22:36 | <Philip`> | That's even harder since you have to worry about GPU performance too :-( |
| 22:37 | <jgraham> | Being able to use the profiler to tune an application (or game) to work better in on javascript engine than another seems like a likely vector for things that only work acceptably well in one browser in the future |
| 22:38 | <Philip`> | That sounds like an excellent incentive for each browser vendor to produce the best profiling tools, so games are optimised for their browser rather than for their competitors |
| 22:39 | <jgraham> | Right, I think it probably will be |
| 22:39 | <zewt> | Philip`: well, there are endless cases in low-level languages of people who think they intuitively understand performance without profiling (and don't) ... high-level languages aren't unique there, it just raises the bar of understanding that much further |
| 22:39 | <jgraham> | It will also cause people to copy each other's optimisations of course |
| 22:40 | <zewt> | in particular since a single function may have differently-optimized versions under the hood for different arguments |
| 22:40 | <zewt> | (at least in C++, it's explicit when that's likely to happen--templates) |
| 22:43 | <jgraham> | I wonder if anyone published a reasonably up-to-date piece about how to get decent perf. from javascript. Just basic things like "don't change he types of variables" |
| 22:43 | <Philip`> | zewt: There will always be people who do it wrong, but at least with C/C++ you can run a compiler and profiler and look at assembly code and get a fair idea of what's going on if you want to, whereas higher-level languages seem to make that pretty much entirely impossible for anybody except the language implementers themselves |
| 22:44 | <Philip`> | (e.g. with SpiderMonkey it seems the only way to see what code compiles into is to run in the command-line shell with various environment variables to trigger dumps of the assembly code of the entire script, which isn't very practical for non-trivial applications) |
| 22:49 | <Laster> | naive question from a nube. why doesn't editor.html implement fontsize, fontcolor and a lot of other functionality? |
| 22:55 | <zewt> | Philip`: browsers should definitely expose more internals to their debuggers (bytecode, jit output, etc); browsers seem to treat developers like babies |
| 23:02 | <Philip`> | zewt: Are any other similar languages any better than JS at this? |
| 23:04 | <zewt> | you can read back the bytecode of a function in Python (but it doesn't JIT so there's no analogue there, and I'm not sure how documented its bytecode is) |
| 23:05 | <zewt> | there's also the dis module, but i havn't looked at it much |
| 23:07 | <zewt> | (i wouldn't suggest that anything about this sort of thing should be anything but browser extensions; not limiting optimizations is far more important) |
