| 00:45 | <ZXY> | hey guys, I seem to be getting a different result for when I use line-height:1.5 vs 1.5em on headings |
| 00:46 | <ZXY> | on normal text it seems to work the same |
| 00:47 | <TabAtkins> | Yes, the two are quite different. |
| 00:47 | <TabAtkins> | 1.5em computes to a length, and inherits as such. |
| 00:47 | <TabAtkins> | 1.5 stays as a number, so it's always 1.5 times the current font-size, even when inherited. |
| 00:47 | <ZXY> | ah, that makes sense, thanks |
| 00:48 | <TabAtkins> | no problem |
| 01:09 | <ZXY> | http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/specs#css3-marquee |
| 01:09 | <ZXY> | awe come on now, really? |
| 01:13 | <heycam> | r |
| 01:13 | <heycam> | re |
| 01:13 | <heycam> | rea |
| 01:13 | <heycam> | eal |
| 01:13 | <heycam> | all |
| 01:13 | <heycam> | lly |
| 01:14 | <heycam> | ly! |
| 01:14 | <heycam> | y! |
| 01:14 | <heycam> | ! |
| 01:14 | <rillian_> | <marquee> |
| 01:15 | <erlehmann> | i hate every single one of you |
| 03:29 | <zewt> | heycam: fyi, what i have so far based on last night (a bit on the clumsy side): http://pastebin.com/C57S0Th6 |
| 03:29 | <zewt> | not sure about that first step (meant to pull in the dictionary with defaults when omitted) |
| 03:30 | <zewt> | (various pieces of that pulled from html and dom4, refs lost in the paste) |
| 03:31 | <heycam> | zewt, I think that's ok |
| 03:31 | <heycam> | rather than say "for each dictionary member defined" you should probaly say "for each dictionary member present" |
| 03:31 | <heycam> | and link that present to the web idl definition |
| 03:31 | <zewt> | that's pulled verbatim from dom4 event init, iirc |
| 03:31 | <heycam> | ok |
| 03:31 | <heycam> | i haven't reviewed that ;) |
| 03:31 | <zewt> | i mentioned earlier, that particular step might be something to give its own algorithm in webidl |
| 03:31 | <heycam> | ah right |
| 03:32 | <zewt> | since this seems like a pattern that'll come up a lot |
| 03:32 | <heycam> | like "assign this dictionary to this object" |
| 03:32 | <zewt> | yeah |
| 03:32 | <heycam> | still, it's not many words |
| 03:36 | <zewt> | yeah |
| 03:36 | <zewt> | has a bunch of refs though |
| 03:37 | <zewt> | http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#constructing-events |
| 03:37 | <zewt> | (the "if there is an argument" prefix only makes sense when the dictionary has no defaults) |
| 03:39 | <heycam> | yeah. ok, you've convinced me, I'll add a definition for it. |
| 03:55 | <zewt> | technically, the "empty dictionary" part in the first step is funny (it really should be the object type in the bound language, since it's the input to the conversion in the next step), but I guess it's good enough |
| 04:00 | <heycam> | zewt, oh yeah |
| 04:01 | <zewt> | or alternatively, it could say (abbreviated) "if invoked with a second argument, convert the argument; otherwise let options be a new value of type X with all members not present" |
| 04:01 | <zewt> | or something like that |
| 08:47 | <rniwa> | anyone familiar with attribute nodes? |
| 09:01 | <jgraham> | rniwa: Not really. What was the question? |
| 09:01 | <rniwa> | jgraham: oh I was about to ask if you can nest attribute nodes |
| 09:01 | <rniwa> | jgraham: but clearly not |
| 09:01 | <rniwa> | jgraham: we only allow text nodes and entities |
| 09:02 | <rniwa> | i guess we were sane enough not to allow that :) |
| 09:02 | <rniwa> | jgraham: thanks for pong though. |
| 09:02 | rniwa | wants to kill attribute nodes altogether. |
| 09:03 | <rniwa> | jgraham: i've been making some perf. improvements in dom, and we had some serious design flaw in the way child node lists are cached |
| 09:03 | <rniwa> | jgraham: in fact, those cache were making our node insertion algorithm O(n) where n is the depth of DOM |
| 09:03 | <rniwa> | well, it still is O(n) |
| 09:04 | <rniwa> | until I land the patch i'm working on now and then land a subsequent patch that make it O(1) |
| 09:04 | <jgraham> | Cool |
| 09:04 | <rniwa> | jgraham: yeah, it's good to make something O(1) :D |
| 09:04 | <rniwa> | jgraham: node removal appears to be tricker |
| 09:05 | <rniwa> | jgraham: due to ranges :( |
| 09:05 | <rniwa> | auto-updates are so expensive |
| 09:05 | <rniwa> | and for historical reasons, we have 4 rangeboundarypoint-like objects for selection |
| 09:06 | <rniwa> | jgraham: I've learned that we want to avoid having to decide whether a node X belongs in the subtree of another node Y at all cost. |
| 09:07 | <rniwa> | it's super expensive! |
| 09:08 | <jgraham> | Yeah, that makes sense :) |
| 10:25 | <annevk5> | heycam|away: so is the overloading/defaulting only a problem for primitive ECMAScript types? |
| 10:25 | <annevk5> | heycam|away: I mean if you have Document or DocumentFragment it does not much matter as far as I can tell |
| 10:58 | <silentimp> | Hi all |
| 11:00 | <silentimp> | I want to ask: is there any polyfill based on JavaScript implementation of HTML Editing APIs specification created? (http://blog.whatwg.org/html-editing-apis-specification-ready-for-implementer-feedback) |
| 11:00 | <silentimp> | Or perhaps editor based on that script? |
| 12:49 | <FlorianX> | Hixie annevk5: It's done! Here you can find my thesis: http://post.ly/4CtMI The official Thanksgiving you can find on page IV :-) |
| 13:26 | <annevk5> | cool |
| 13:43 | <annevk5> | wiki still gets some spam each day :( |
| 13:44 | <annevk5> | but slowly all those users will be blocked |
| 13:44 | <silentimp> | nya Ж3 |
| 13:44 | <silentimp> | :3 * |
| 13:45 | <Hypah> | I motion for the direct integration of ActionScript 3.0 into HTML6 |
| 13:45 | <hsivonen> | the "json" responseType found its way to mozilla-central. still a little while before it gets into actual Nightly channel builds |
| 13:45 | <Ms2ger> | How about Java? |
| 13:46 | hsivonen | has learned not to say there's an implementation before the nightlies have spun |
| 13:46 | <hsivonen> | on public-webapps that is |
| 13:51 | <annevk5> | FlorianX: if you want you can write something about it on the WHATWG blog |
| 13:52 | <annevk5> | FlorianX: either in German or English |
| 13:52 | <annevk5> | hsivonen: still cool :) |
| 13:56 | <hsivonen> | FlorianX: why is the Scribd embed Flash? Didn't they "switch to HTML5" a while ago? |
| 14:00 | <hsivonen> | FlorianX: did the professor complain about the references not pointing to scientific journals? |
| 14:02 | <hsivonen> | (I'm totally OK with pointing to where the interesting information is. When I was writing my master's thesis, the professor did bring up the issue of scientific references.) |
| 14:09 | <silentimp> | Is there any polyfill of HTML Editing APIs specification (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/editing/raw-file/tip/editing.html) based on (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/editing/raw-file/tip/implementation.js) ? |
| 14:22 | <Ms2ger> | No |
| 14:24 | <FlorianX> | hsivonen: I think he has no problem with this |
| 14:24 | <hsivonen> | FlorianX: cool |
| 14:25 | <FlorianX> | hsivonen: posterous embed it automatically |
| 14:25 | <FlorianX> | so i cant choose in which way |
| 14:26 | <FlorianX> | annevk5: could i post the text of the other Blog? ^^ |
| 14:28 | <silentimp> | Ms2ger: is there any sense to try write one? Or spec will change so seriously that writing somesing make no sense at the moment? |
| 14:29 | <Ms2ger> | Dunno, most of it is implemented in browsers already |
| 14:30 | <Ms2ger> | Hrm |
| 14:30 | <Ms2ger> | http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMCore/tests/submissions/AryehGregor/interfaces.html doesn't seem to log anything |
| 14:39 | <silentimp> | Ms2ger: at the moment in all 4 main browser engines contenteditable блок generate different code and this code had anything to do with specification. We need polyfill to have standard suport in older browsers also. |
| 14:39 | <Ms2ger> | Then go for it :) |
| 14:40 | <silentimp> | Yep :) |
| 14:40 | <silentimp> | I just hope that someone already do something )))) |
| 15:30 | <AryehGregor> | Ms2ger, I forgot to push my changes to make it work with idlharness.js changes. |
| 15:30 | <AryehGregor> | Fixed now. |
| 15:30 | <Ms2ger> | Ah, great |
| 15:41 | <zewt> | anyone have a notion off-hand of how common UTF-8 is in Chinese pages? |
| 15:42 | <zewt> | and/or whether Chinese UTF-8 pages actually tend to set @lang? |
| 15:43 | <zewt> | curious about the fact that Firefox defaults to Japanese fonts (which I think is a good thing, encouraging people to set @lang, but I'm surprised it doesn't cause compat problems) |
| 15:56 | <kennyluck> | zewt, I think there's been discussions about the Japanese font issues in the Mozilla Taiwan community which handles the l10n for zh-TW. |
| 15:58 | <kennyluck> | zewt, I am pretty sure the answer to the @lang question is no. Although Google actually sends it... |
| 15:59 | <kennyluck> | (the Google part doesn't seem to hold anymore although I am not sure…) |
| 15:59 | <zewt> | it seems like either 1: firefox is broken for chinese users on lots of utf-8 pages, 2: chinese users don't use utf-8 much, or 3: chinese users set @lang |
| 16:00 | <kennyluck> | zewt, when you say Chinese users, do you mean zh-CN or zh-TW or both? |
| 16:01 | <zewt> | both (to the extent that they both use different glyphs than Japanese) |
| 16:02 | <kennyluck> | Well, I think Japanese and Traditional Chinese share quite a few characters/glyphs. I am not sure though. |
| 16:02 | <zewt> | i think they share a lot more, but still differ |
| 16:03 | <zewt> | i'm wondering because it would be great if other browsers could follow suit in this, encouraging CJK users to set @lang |
| 16:04 | <zewt> | (as opposed to heuristics, etc) |
| 16:05 | <kennyluck> | zewt, I just randomly view the source of three pages and see no @lang set. |
| 16:05 | <zewt> | are they utf-8? |
| 16:06 | <kennyluck> | I am using ja-i18n browsers by the way, and I see nothing broken. |
| 16:06 | <kennyluck> | l10n |
| 16:06 | <kennyluck> | yes |
| 16:07 | <zewt> | well, if you can't read chinese, you probably wouldn't notice if it's using the wrong glyphs :) |
| 16:08 | <kennyluck> | zewt, I read Chinese and I am a Chinese, I just happen to use a ja laptop so all my softwares are in ja. |
| 16:09 | <zewt> | kennyluck: -CN or -TW? |
| 16:09 | <zewt> | (identifying people by language codes; welcome to the future) |
| 16:09 | <kennyluck> | zh-Hant :p |
| 16:10 | <zewt> | now you're just not being fair :P |
| 16:14 | <zewt> | is it using a JA font for those pages for you? |
| 16:15 | <kennyluck> | zewt, I always want a API to let me know what font the page is showing me T__T. That is, I really can't tell. |
| 16:16 | <zewt> | yeah. though, i sort of prefer pages not being able to tell, so long as the default handling is so wildly different across browsers |
| 16:17 | <zewt> | it's one less thing causing backwards-compat problems that would prevent browsers from converging |
| 16:57 | <kennyluck> | zewt, OK, in MacOSX, those pages indeed give me JA font, HiraKakuPro, which has 20317 glyphs. I think this number is big enough to cover common Chinese uses. There's also HiraginoSansGB, which has 29064 glyphs, which covers all Chinese characters, but these two are very similar to the point that I probably can't tell if a page uses both. |
| 16:58 | <kennyluck> | They are both in the Hiragino family. |
| 17:07 | <ebwise1> | hello world, |
| 17:07 | <ebwise1> | when using input type=number, is there a way to preserve a leading zero? |
| 17:12 | <zewt> | kennyluck: the problem is where the glyphs differ between languages, not just having the codepoints at all |
| 17:14 | <zewt> | i've heard vague mentions that Japanese users seem to be more sensitive to this than Chinese users; perhaps that's why Japanese is the detail (squeaky wheel) |
| 17:15 | <zewt> | default |
| 17:17 | <kennyluck> | zewt, yeah, if you are talking about this → http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Unification#Examples_of_language_dependent_characters , I would say it really wouldn't be an incentive for people to use lang at all. |
| 17:17 | <zewt> | kennyluck: i think it is for Japanese users, at least |
| 17:18 | <zewt> | and more generally: if the results of choosing the wrong language font bothers the actual users, they'll use it; otherwise it doesn't matter (as much) if they don't |
| 17:20 | <zewt> | (which at least for the font problem, I think is OK) |
| 17:23 | <zewt> | fyi, IE uses the user's locale to choose (which is *bad*), and Opera apparently uses heuristics |
| 17:27 | <kennyluck> | agreed that using locale to make the choice is ultimate evil (ex. default encoding) |
| 17:27 | <zewt> | yep, the problems are almost 1:1 |
| 17:30 | <zewt> | (perhaps worse, in a sense, because it causes problems that are very hard for non-readers to notice) |
| 18:01 | <Hixie> | ebwise1: in the rendering or in the submission? |
| 18:35 | <AryehGregor> | Oh, no. Now Gmail's rich-text editor also has the broken RTL handling of Google Docs. |
| 18:36 | <zewt> | google likes to break things badly, then propagate the badness one by one to each of their other products |
| 18:36 | <zewt> | so you see one product to go hell, and you know it'll be just a short time until the horrors reach something you actually use |
| 18:36 | <AryehGregor> | Protip: "left" means "visual left", not "logical left". It's an arrow, it points left. That's a visual direction. People who read RTL languages do not think a leftward-pointing arrow means "move cursor right". |
| 18:36 | <AryehGregor> | Ugh. |
| 18:36 | <AryehGregor> | Fortunately, I use plaintext e-mail almost exclusively. |
| 18:37 | <TabAtkins> | Oh jeezus. |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | No, wait. |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | Hmm. |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | Maybe it's erratic. |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | Now it seems to work. |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | In Gmail, at least. |
| 18:37 | <zewt> | gmail's editor is nothing if not erratic |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | In Docs, no. |
| 18:37 | <zewt> | editing quotes in it is an adventure |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | Test-case: paste a Hebrew word like קידושין into Docs, try navigating with arrow keys. |
| 18:37 | <zewt> | by which i mean i feel like I'm playing Shadowgate, and if I touch the wrong thing I'll get sucked out into space |
| 18:37 | <AryehGregor> | Repeat in any sane editor. |
| 18:38 | <AryehGregor> | Observe different results. |
| 18:38 | <AryehGregor> | Also, it puts the cursor in the wrong place sometimes when there are two possible places to put it (which happens when you mix LTR and RTL). |
| 18:38 | <zewt> | AryehGregor: navigating right works for me (currently...), though navigating right and then left is broken |
| 18:39 | <AryehGregor> | Like if you have abcABC, and the cursor is logically between "c" and "A", visually it will look like abcCBA, and the cursor could visually be to the right of A or to the right of c. |
| 18:39 | <AryehGregor> | There are conventions here, and Docs gets it wrong sometimes. |
| 18:39 | <zewt> | eg. if I hit right until I go to the next line, it works; but if I then press left, it goes to the leftmost edge of the previous line, instead of undoing the previous right press |
| 18:39 | <AryehGregor> | zewt, what does "it works" mean? The cursor moves visually right when you press right, even in RTL? |
| 18:39 | <AryehGregor> | That's not what I see. |
| 18:40 | <zewt> | yeah |
| 18:40 | <AryehGregor> | Weird. |
| 18:40 | <kennyluck> | Do people find whatwg⊙lwo more open than www-style? And if so, why? |
| 18:40 | <zewt> | (bear in mind that google regularly gives different versions of code to different users) |
| 18:40 | <zewt> | also, FWIW, i'm testing in FF8 |
| 18:40 | <TabAtkins> | kennyluck: I would assume that asking in a room full of standards wonks and browser devs won't give you a very useful audience for the question. ^_^ |
| 18:41 | <zewt> | who else regularly posts on those lists? heh |
| 18:42 | <kennyluck> | TabAtkins, hmm.. OK. I am just curious. I wonder if it Is this channel that makes the difference. |
| 18:43 | AryehGregor | found www-style pretty open when he used to frequent it |
| 18:43 | <zewt> | i've rarely found any list particularly less open than others |
| 18:43 | <zewt> | (never followed that particular one) |
| 18:46 | <TabAtkins> | kennyluck: I started following both lists at the same time, very early in my web dev career. I found them similar. |
| 19:08 | <ebwise> | Hixie: in the rendering and submission the leading zero is removed. it seems to happen when the field loses focus after entry |
| 19:12 | <Ms2ger> | ebwise, well yes, it doesn't mean anything |
| 19:13 | <ebwise> | Ms2ger: leading zeros are significant when you are working with things like zip codes |
| 19:13 | <Ms2ger> | ZIP codes aren't numbers |
| 19:14 | <Ms2ger> | Use <input pattern=[0-9]{4}> or whatever |
| 19:14 | <TabAtkins> | Yes, they're numeric text. You want the number keypad on a phone, but not the numeric behavior. |
| 19:14 | <TabAtkins> | This is a job for the input_mode or whatever attribute on text inputs, which is getting evidence collected for it on the whatwg wiki. |
| 19:14 | <zewt> | Ms2ger: stabbing people who lock zip codes to 5 digits, because i have to use 9, heh |
| 19:15 | <TabAtkins> | zewt: You |
| 19:15 | <zewt> | me. |
| 19:15 | <TabAtkins> | zewt: You're actually forced to? |
| 19:15 | <zewt> | well it's a little more complex than that |
| 19:15 | <zewt> | if someone uses USPS, i either have to use 9-digit, or specify my po box |
| 19:15 | <hober> | I thought we disabled wiki account creation? |
| 19:15 | <zewt> | i prefer not to specify a po box, because for a lot of shippers that'll either 1: force them to use usps instead of ups/fedex, or 2: trigger a "we don't support po boxes" error |
| 19:16 | <zewt> | much simpler to use my street address and 9-digit zip, which works everywhere |
| 19:16 | <TabAtkins> | Hm, interesting. |
| 19:16 | <zewt> | ... except with incompetent shippers, who read my 9-digit, and then truncate it to 5 |
| 19:16 | <zewt> | gotta save on ink, I guess? |
| 19:16 | <TabAtkins> | Man, those pens are expensive. |
| 19:17 | <TabAtkins> | Like, 50 cents. |
| 19:17 | <TabAtkins> | I'm not made out of cash! |
| 19:18 | <zewt> | (it doesn't make stuff not get delivered, at this point; but it does make postal employees give me angry looks) |
| 19:19 | <gsnedders> | More users complaining about sites using WebKit prefixed CSS properties not working as well as in WebKit-based browsers. :( |
| 19:20 | <ebwise> | so, it seems like the input type attribute is specific to the uses of "numbers" as data input, where number is strictly for INT/FLOAT type data, where month is just for month(and year), tel is just for telephone, and the solution for zip codes is "text" -- even though these can all essentially be reflected by numeric data? is that right? |
| 19:20 | <gsnedders> | ebwise: Right |
| 19:20 | <zewt> | ebwise: zip codes in the US--the equivalents for other countries, not necessarily |
| 19:21 | <gsnedders> | Surprisingly China appears to be quite bad for relying upon -webkit- |
| 19:21 | <zewt> | (more generally, "postal codes") |
| 19:21 | <TabAtkins> | ebwise: All of those can get different input UIs, too. Numbers get a different keypad than phone numbers (which may allow address-book to be easily used), while month may expose month names. |
| 19:24 | <ebwise> | ok, i guess that clarifies the semantics for me, thanks |
| 19:24 | <zewt> | (9-digit zip codes typically contain a hyphen, too) |
| 19:28 | <ebwise> | zewt: true, but many US forms are designed to require the first 5 digits and make the last 4 optional by breaking the sections into two input fields. i am not saying that is the right way of doing things, but pointing out that hyphens are not always part of the input. anyway, wouldnt "3-2" be a number? ^_^ (jokes) |
| 19:30 | <zewt> | breaking zip codes into two fields is another thing that makes me want to stab people with a pen (thereby wasting yet more ink) |
| 19:31 | <ebwise> | use a pencil? |
| 19:35 | <astearns> | zewt: is breaking up phone numbers into 3-4 digit fields also pen-stabbing-worthy? |
| 19:35 | <zewt> | even more so |
| 19:36 | <zewt> | it's outright obnoxious |
| 19:37 | <zewt> | annoying to type, prevents my browser from autocompleting, prevents pasting |
| 19:37 | <gsnedders> | Do people in the US know their phone numbers in 3/4 digit segments? |
| 19:37 | <zewt> | yes |
| 19:38 | <zewt> | i mean, they're grouped as 3-3-4 to make it easier to remember |
| 19:38 | <ebwise> | gsnedders: very much so |
| 19:41 | <TabAtkins> | astearns: Omigod, yes, it's horribad. |
| 19:42 | <TabAtkins> | The correct telephone interface is to accept whatever the hell, then strip out everything but digits for storage. |
| 19:42 | <TabAtkins> | Then format as desired on output. |
| 19:42 | <astearns> | TabAtkins: oh yes, I agree. I was just curious about the perimeter is zewt's pen-stabbing zone |
| 19:42 | <zewt> | i had a lot of *cough* fun trying to ship something to Korea once |
| 19:42 | <astearns> | s/is/of/ |
| 19:43 | <zewt> | where the shipping company (don't remember which) wanted me to split the address apart into its tiny component sections |
| 19:43 | <zewt> | and of course, korea has utterly different conventions for that than the US; took like half an hour of searching to figure it all out |
| 19:45 | <zewt> | Changhang-Dong, Ilsandong-Gu, Koyang-Si, 410-837 Kyonggi |
| 19:45 | <zewt> | D: |
| 19:46 | <jgraham> | I would like to claim that US sites are particularly bad about not realising the rest of the world exists. But I am pretty sure that I have had European airlines ell me that I can only use "lette characters" in my address if I enter Linköping |
| 19:46 | <jgraham> | +r |
| 19:47 | <smaug____> | åäö are hard |
| 19:47 | <jgraham> | Although I say airlines and I am reasnably sure I mean Ryanair which is more like mobile torture services |
| 19:48 | <zewt> | i'd hope that international shipping services, at least, would know about the rest of the world |
| 19:48 | <zewt> | (but i'm pretty sure this was USPS, so ...) |
| 19:49 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Lkpg? That's a place? Oh, I never heard of anything that happened there. |
| 19:49 | <gsnedders> | Must be really dull. |
| 19:49 | <Ms2ger> | I hear they have their own IRC |
| 19:50 | <gsnedders> | Wow, I wonder if it supports Unicode. |
| 19:50 | <gsnedders> | Or declares any encoding. |
| 19:50 | <jgraham> | It is more like their own NNTP |
| 19:50 | <gsnedders> | Wait, the rest of the world might have heard of it if it did that. |
| 19:50 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I sent you an inline reply, did you not see it? |
| 19:50 | <gsnedders> | Oh, wait, you're not using the elisp client. |
| 19:51 | <jgraham> | I am also told that Judas Priest are the forthcoming local attraction |
| 19:52 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Waitwhat, a band people might have actually heard of playing in Lkpg? |
| 19:52 | <gsnedders> | Is the end of the world coming soon? |
| 19:52 | <jgraham> | A band that people from the 70s might have heard of |
| 19:52 | <gsnedders> | Woah. The Cloetta Center can hold 11.5k, I'm surprised, given nothing ever happens in Lkpg. |
| 19:53 | <gsnedders> | "Some other notable music acts include Deep Purple, Europe, John Fogerty, Toto, W.A.S.P. and Whitesnake." |
| 19:54 | <gsnedders> | Of those I have only heard of Deep Purple. |
| 19:54 | <gsnedders> | Just… okay. |
| 19:55 | <jgraham> | Seriously? You must have heard of the others |
| 19:55 | <gsnedders> | Seriously. |
| 19:56 | <jgraham> | Even I have heard of several of the others and I spent ll afternoon listening to waht could only be described as lesbian swing-pop (yes, I made that genre up. But it is awesome nonetheless) |
| 19:56 | <zewt> | that sounds like a pop'n'music "genre" |
| 19:56 | <zewt> | not that the odds of anyone knowing what that is in here are very high |
| 19:56 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: You listen to weird music. But you'd say the same of me. |
| 19:56 | <jgraham> | Europe were responsible for "The Final Countdown" |
| 19:56 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Oh, okay |
| 19:57 | <jgraham> | Toto for "Africa" and "Hold the Line" |
| 19:57 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: You will now have me listening to 80s music for the rest of the evening >_> |
| 19:57 | <smaug____> | Whitesnake... I so much wish I had seen it when Steve Vai was playing in the band. |
| 19:57 | <jgraham> | Whitesnake were a popular metal band |
| 19:58 | <jgraham> | I've never heard of the other two |
| 19:58 | Ms2ger | doesn't know any |
| 20:00 | <jgraham> | Oh, John Fogerty was in Creedence Clearwater Revival |
| 20:00 | <jgraham> | W.A.S.P appear to be YAIMB |
| 20:00 | <gsnedders> | Yet Another [I?] Metal Band? |
| 20:00 | <jgraham> | Identikit |
| 20:01 | <gsnedders> | You'd claim all metal bands are identical. |
| 20:01 | <jgraham> | Well I think it is generally the amount that I want to listen to them that is identical |
| 20:01 | <gsnedders> | And I think we've had enough arguments in this vain, so I'm going back to trying to relearn what symbols are used for what in relational algebra |
| 20:03 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Oh, Toto are *that* band. |
| 20:05 | <jgraham> | Yes. Yes they are. |
| 20:06 | <Ms2ger> | Pff, symbols are interchangeable |
| 20:10 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: If you can convince my lecturer, great! |
| 20:10 | <gsnedders> | (Sadly my lecturer is a terrible teacher — though brilliant at the main part of what he teaches) |
| 20:28 | <Hixie> | is hallvord the one working on clipboard events still these days? |
| 20:32 | <jgraham> | yes, I think so |
| 20:35 | <Hixie> | looks like the spec has matured a lot since i last saw it |
| 20:35 | <Hixie> | cool |
| 20:35 | <Hixie> | anyone know what the situation is with respect to the mutation stuff? |
| 20:36 | <Hixie> | did we ever work out whether I needed to provide a hook in the event loop, or script dispatch, or something? |
| 20:36 | <smaug____> | script dispatch probably |
| 20:37 | <Hixie> | is it pending my doing something, or is it not yet fixed? |
| 20:37 | <Hixie> | s/fixed/ready for me to do something/ |
| 20:37 | <smaug____> | DOM4 has (a bit wrong) interfaces for mutation observer stuff |
| 20:37 | <smaug____> | but no text written |
| 20:38 | <Hixie> | k |
| 20:38 | <Hixie> | i guess i'll wait for a bug to be filed or something |
| 20:38 | <smaug____> | yeah, I'll file some bugs |
| 20:38 | <Hixie> | cool |
| 20:38 | <Hixie> | thanks |
| 20:38 | <smaug____> | I had to take a break from implementation. |
| 20:38 | <smaug____> | but will finalize it in the next coming days |
| 20:39 | <smaug____> | webkit has some support but haven't tested it at all (since I can't figure out how to run nightly webkit on this machine) |
| 20:39 | <Hixie> | can you run canary chromium? |
| 20:39 | <zewt> | heh, when i tried running webkit nightly it was sort of confusing |
| 20:39 | <Hixie> | or is that not up to date enough |
| 20:40 | <zewt> | because it only changes the backend, so there was no indication in the ui (without knowing where to look) that it was actually using it |
| 20:40 | <smaug____> | Hixie: I haven't figured out where to download canary for linux |
| 20:40 | <Hixie> | smaug____: ah, dunno |
| 20:52 | <gsnedders> | smaug____: You build it yourself, or download it off buildbot, AFAIK |
| 20:54 | <smaug____> | sounds too hard :) |
| 20:54 | <smaug____> | I just don't care about it for now |
| 20:56 | <gsnedders> | smaug____: Either that or there's an Ubuntu PPA of Chromium, but that's about it |
| 20:56 | <gsnedders> | Sucky situation :( |
| 20:56 | <jamesr_> | google doesn't provide a canary channel build for linux |
| 20:57 | <jamesr_> | you can get ToT builds from various sources |
| 20:57 | <gsnedders> | jamesr_: Not quite the same when you're trying to test how it interacts with Flash, for example, though :( |
| 21:42 | MrOpposite | test |
| 21:44 | <jamesr_> | gsnedders, depends on which flash you're talking about |
| 21:45 | <jamesr_> | but yes that can be an issue |
| 22:15 | <Hixie> | kennyluck: ping |
| 22:18 | <Hixie> | kennyluck: see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14890 |
| 22:29 | <bga> | http://blog.jquery.com/2011/12/08/what-is-happening-to-the-jquery-plugins-site/ |
| 22:37 | <TabAtkins> | bga: Heh, they deleted the entire database by accident. Nice. |
| 22:39 | <tantek> | databases are overrated. |
| 22:44 | <Hixie> | speaking of which i should make sure i'm still backing up all our databases |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | looks like the blog, forums, wiki, and the status database are all still being backed up |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | issues database backup seems broken though... odd... |
| 22:49 | <Hixie> | aha, fixed. |
| 22:49 | <Hixie> | ok, i can confirm out databases are being backed up |
| 22:49 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 22:55 | <paul_irish> | \o/ |
| 23:32 | <Hixie> | can anyone work out what is being said here? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14235 |
| 23:39 | <TabAtkins> | I have no idea. |