| 00:56 | <MikeSmith> | from the peanut gallery https://twitter.com/chadaustin/status/460529236411817985 |
| 02:43 | <MikeSmith> | what can I use place of window.URL.createObjectURL in older browsers? |
| 02:46 | <zewt> | nasty, but xhr -> data: url? |
| 02:47 | <MikeSmith> | zewt: yeah I guess that'd work |
| 03:12 | <MikeSmith> | IE11 doesn't actually seem to support blob: URLs in a@href as far as I can tell |
| 03:12 | <MikeSmith> | at least nothing happens when you click one |
| 03:13 | <zewt> | that's never supposed to work, as far as i know, though I think that's way underdefined right now |
| 03:14 | <zewt> | not sure if it should work to an iframe, but navigating the page to a blob URL doesn't make sense (since navigating away causes the blob itself to go away...) |
| 03:14 | <MikeSmith> | zewt: are you sure? I mean it works in other UAs. The UA just prompts you to download it. |
| 03:15 | <zewt> | i mean, it shouldn't load the link as a webpage and view it |
| 03:15 | <MikeSmith> | ah yeah |
| 03:16 | <MikeSmith> | sure |
| 03:16 | <MikeSmith> | but at least it should do.. something |
| 03:16 | <MikeSmith> | give an error somewhere at least |
| 03:17 | <MikeSmith> | in IE nothing happens at all -- no user error, no exception, nothing logged to console |
| 03:32 | MikeSmith | now tries to figure out why http://www.w3c-test.org/2dcontext/fill-and-stroke-styles/2d.pattern.modify.image1.html is timing out |
| 04:15 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: the image can't find red.png so you get a timeout |
| 04:17 | <MikeSmith> | cabanier: yeah |
| 04:17 | <cabanier> | :-) |
| 04:17 | <MikeSmith> | will push a fix for it |
| 04:19 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: are there any test for focus rings? |
| 04:19 | <MikeSmith> | cabanier: yeah |
| 04:20 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: great! |
| 04:20 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: have a link? |
| 04:20 | <MikeSmith> | but the results are going to show that they fail in all UAs |
| 04:20 | <MikeSmith> | given that I'm not turning on any non-default flags |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | cabanier: http://sideshowbarker.github.io/test-results/2dcontext/less-than-2.html |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | cabanier: I thought you guys had agreed to drop the focus stuff from the CR draft |
| 04:23 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: no, the focus ring is still in there, just not the custom one. |
| 04:23 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: your test works fine on FF. Haven't tried chrome yet |
| 04:23 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: hit regions are also in the spec. I'm about to submit them to FF |
| 04:25 | <MikeSmith> | cabanier: I think the focus ring stuff doesn't work without the user neededing to manually set some particular user pref, it should be dropped from the CR completely |
| 04:25 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: I can ask FF to drop that requirement, especially if your test works |
| 04:26 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: I can ask Samsung to do the same for Blink |
| 04:26 | <MikeSmith> | cabanier: as far as I can recall, they put it under a user pref for a reason |
| 04:27 | <MikeSmith> | as in, the intentionally did not want to ship it without out |
| 04:27 | <MikeSmith> | but if things have since changed, then yeah, it seems they should un-pref it |
| 04:27 | <MikeSmith> | otherwise it's not actually going to be usable by 99% of the users in practice |
| 04:28 | <zcorpan> | morning folks |
| 04:28 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: hey |
| 04:29 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: hey i have an idea of a new feature you can implement in v.nu if you're rolling your thumbs |
| 04:29 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: http://picture.responsiveimages.org |
| 04:29 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: no, I did that because I was told that's the way to develop a new feature |
| 04:29 | <MikeSmith> | cabanier: ok |
| 04:29 | <cabanier> | MikeSmith: I'll ask for shipping this week |
| 04:30 | <MikeSmith> | hai |
| 04:30 | MikeSmith | looks at zcorpan URL |
| 04:30 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: can try to add it this week |
| 04:31 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: cool |
| 04:40 | <TabAtkins> | zcorpan: ...what's the new feature? |
| 04:41 | <TabAtkins> | Oh, the <picture> element. |
| 04:41 | <zcorpan> | right |
| 06:03 | <zcorpan> | TabAtkins: r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcommit?first=64715af0&last=3316ec27&review=1364 |
| 06:23 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: thanks for the bug filer. haven't tried it yet but it looks nice |
| 06:39 | <TabAtkins> | zcorpan: r+ |
| 06:57 | <TabAtkins> | There's not already a way to just get the underlying JS binary of a string into a TypedArray, is there? |
| 06:58 | <TabAtkins> | Pretending it's text, via TextEncoder, won't work, since it's probably invalid UTF-16 (stray surrogates abound). |
| 06:58 | <TabAtkins> | And doing a map with .charCodeAt is slow. |
| 07:24 | <zcorpan> | TabAtkins: thanks! |
| 08:28 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: I don't think there is, code units to bytes is uncharted territory, although maybe if you give String an iterator and pass that to ArrayBuffer.from() |
| 08:37 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: in the context of https://twitter.com/chadaustin/status/460529236411817985 if you've not seen it yet |
| 08:37 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: just replied at the very end of that |
| 08:37 | <MikeSmith> | I see you commented |
| 08:37 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: there's "file a bug" at the top, but I guess there's no help if braindead people make braindead comments |
| 08:40 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: hey he alerted twitter man |
| 08:40 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: to be fair, that did work |
| 08:41 | <MikeSmith> | see! you're plainly wasting your time with that quaint "file a bug" old-school tech |
| 08:44 | <MikeSmith> | btw it "worked" in this case only if you happened to have a column for "whatwg" keyword search set up in tweetdeck or whatever, and somebody actually paying attention to it |
| 08:52 | <zcorpan> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11984#c60 \o/ |
| 08:54 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: and only if the person tweeting points to the whatwg spec and not some fork |
| 08:54 | <MikeSmith> | yah |
| 10:12 | <annevk> | https://twitter.com/antumbral/status/460723070743752704 fucking hell |
| 10:14 | <jgraham> | annevk: Just calling things "scalar values" is super-confusing |
| 10:15 | <jgraham> | Because I don't think that most people have the context to realise that you mean "unicode scalar values" |
| 10:15 | <annevk> | jgraham: I guess you're starting a new thread? |
| 10:15 | <annevk> | jgraham: because my "fucking hell" was not at all about that |
| 10:15 | <jgraham> | annevk: No, I understand what it was about |
| 10:15 | <annevk> | jgraham: and if you want to debate Encoding Standard terms, you're welcome to convince everyone to agree on a set of terms |
| 10:15 | <JakeA> | annevk: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/Social_API/Service_worker_API_reference - is this where the name came from? |
| 10:16 | <JakeA> | I assume that predates that SW spec |
| 10:16 | <jgraham> | I'm just pointing out that "scalar value" without context isn't going to make sense to most people |
| 10:16 | <jgraham> | I'm trying to be helpful, even if the W3C isn't |
| 10:16 | <zcorpan> | how about calling them "w3c please don't fork this spec"? |
| 10:17 | zcorpan | -1 helpful |
| 10:17 | <annevk> | JakeA: I have no idea |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | jgraham: well, the specification defines the term |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | jgraham: I could be swayed by character / Unicode character as suggested at some point, if we can all agree on those |
| 10:19 | <jgraham> | annevk: Sure. But I doubt the audience of "random people on twitter" has memorised all the terms in the spec |
| 10:19 | <annevk> | jgraham: we're talking about the spec, obviously they can look it up |
| 10:21 | <jgraham> | Indeed. Nevertheless I think it would have been clearer if you had avoided that particular term of art since it's not widely known and has a totally different meaning in all other contexts |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | jgraham: can you rephrase my tweet? |
| 10:22 | <jgraham> | I think s/scalar values/unicode characters/ or s/scalar values/unicode scalar values/ are both improvements |
| 10:23 | <jgraham> | The second at least makes it clear that you mean a specific term of art |
| 10:24 | <annevk> | jgraham: note that it was not unclear to the other person that I was talking about a term of art |
| 10:25 | <jgraham> | annevk: OK, but it would have been unclear to me if I hadn't previously been introduced to the term "unicode scalar value" by you |
| 10:26 | <annevk> | jgraham: when I talk to you I'll be sure to spell it out ;-) |
| 10:26 | <jgraham> | Good good |
| 10:26 | <annevk> | jgraham: I don't disagree that all these things suck, but I only have the power to change so much |
| 11:01 | <jungkees> | annevk: are you around? |
| 11:01 | <annevk> | jungkees: yup |
| 11:02 | <jungkees> | annevk: good. so can we talk about the fetch and SW hook? |
| 11:02 | <annevk> | jungkees: cool; so I haven't added placeholders yet, but the hook should be in http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#basic-fetch under http/https |
| 11:03 | <annevk> | jungkees: probably as part of a rewrite of the eight step HTTP request algorithm |
| 11:03 | <annevk> | jungkees: and the return value from the service worker we can run the response steps on that follow those steps |
| 11:04 | <annevk> | jungkees: so we need some kind of hook for "here's a request, is there a service worker for it, and if there is, can you run it through it and hand me a response" |
| 11:06 | <jungkees> | annevk: I see. and do you see anything else we have to work on in terms of Request and Response defined in SW? |
| 11:06 | <jungkees> | I just commented on the issue in SW about the FetchEvent.purpose --> Request.context |
| 11:07 | <annevk> | jungkees: I'd like to define those objects in Fetch in due course |
| 11:07 | <annevk> | jungkees: since Fetch also defines the underlying concepts it makes sense to couple them I think |
| 11:07 | <jungkees> | In due course, I agree |
| 11:08 | <annevk> | jungkees: as for the APIs defined now, we should not expose synchronous |
| 11:08 | <jungkees> | We're just defining it in SW as for now and may hook it into the part of the fetch later on I guess |
| 11:08 | <annevk> | jungkees: I'm not sure if timeout should be on Request |
| 11:08 | <annevk> | jungkees: yeah, we can make the switch when I get around to it I suppose |
| 11:09 | <annevk> | jungkees: also bookkeeping details such as redirectCount should be not exposed |
| 11:09 | <annevk> | jungkees: forceSameOrigin seems redundant with Mode |
| 11:09 | <jungkees> | Right. I think we better make a ticket in SW issue list for that so that people are aware of what you think of as a direction.. and your plan for it |
| 11:10 | <annevk> | jungkees: there's a general ticket on Fetch integration |
| 11:10 | <jungkees> | alright. then let's keep updating it upon our discussion |
| 11:11 | <jungkees> | annevk: and.. do we need to add "CORS-with-forced-preflight" in the Mode enum? |
| 11:11 | <annevk> | jungkees: I guess |
| 11:11 | <jungkees> | alright |
| 11:12 | <annevk> | jungkees: it's weird if you're the one making the request, but if the request came from XHR, it makes sense to expose that |
| 11:16 | <jungkees> | annevk: Alright I'll add it. And found https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/242; think it is the right place to discuss the plan from this point on |
| 11:17 | <annevk> | jungkees: yeah sure, but lets use IRC when questions come up, much quicker |
| 11:18 | <jungkees> | annevk: Ok |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | jgraham: hey, can you walk me through a pull request merge again? |
| 13:01 | <Ms2ger> | "Click the button"? |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: I'd prefer one commit in the history |
| 13:02 | <jgraham> | annevk: What are you trying to merge? |
| 13:02 | <annevk> | jgraham: https://github.com/whatwg/dom/pull/12 |
| 13:02 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: otherwise we get two tweets |
| 13:03 | <jgraham> | annevk: OK, github makes this a bit difficult because there are multiple repos involved |
| 13:04 | <jgraham> | So, locally, you can either add Aryeh's remote, or use one of the scripts on the internet that undoes some GH magic |
| 13:04 | <jgraham> | The first option is easier |
| 13:04 | <jgraham> | git remote add aryeh git⊙gc:ayg/dom.git |
| 13:05 | <jgraham> | git fetch origin |
| 13:05 | <jgraham> | git fetch aryeh |
| 13:05 | <jgraham> | git checkout aryeh/allow-filter-recursion |
| 13:05 | <jgraham> | git rebase origin/master |
| 13:05 | <jgraham> | git push origin HEAD:master |
| 13:06 | <jgraham> | git checkout master |
| 13:06 | <jgraham> | git merge --ff-only |
| 13:06 | <jgraham> | (the last two steps aren't really necesssary) |
| 13:09 | <Domenic_> | Let me find my bash script, it is nice |
| 13:09 | <Domenic_> | I type "pr 42" in the current repo and it figures it out |
| 13:10 | <jgraham> | Yeah, like I say magic scripts exist. Does it also allow you to land PRs? |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | seems almost easier to just apply https://github.com/ayg/dom/commit/61544aa440d0ef6cff10776a952a9562aa67e295.patch |
| 13:11 | <jgraham> | Well not really |
| 13:11 | <jgraham> | I mean apart from adding the remote there's only one step that would really replace |
| 13:11 | <jgraham> | Umm, that didn't make sense |
| 13:12 | <jgraham> | Anyway the point is that it wouldn't be much easier |
| 13:12 | <Domenic_> | https://gist.github.com/domenic/11371574 |
| 13:12 | <jgraham> | (in this case you could even optimise by checking out master; updating it to origin/master, cherry-picking aryeh's commit and pushing) |
| 13:13 | <jgraham> | Domenic_: that doesn't work |
| 13:13 | <Domenic_> | jgraham: I use it every day. |
| 13:13 | <jgraham> | annevk specifically wanted to not merge |
| 13:13 | <Domenic_> | jgraham: it rebases first |
| 13:13 | <Domenic_> | fast-forward merge |
| 13:14 | <jgraham> | Oh, OK. Would be way clearer with --ff-only there |
| 13:14 | <Domenic_> | sure, sounds good. |
| 13:16 | <annevk> | "pr: cannot open 12, No such file or directory" |
| 13:17 | <Domenic_> | Hmm. source ~/.bashrc ? |
| 13:17 | <Domenic_> | I guess I haven't tested this on non-Windows systems... |
| 13:21 | <Domenic_> | oh there's already a /usr/bin/pr on my Mac |
| 13:21 | <Domenic_> | so a different name i guess |
| 13:23 | <annevk> | I feel like such a noob. I changed the name, but it still does not work |
| 13:23 | <darobin> | annevk: did you remember to source your bashrc in that console? |
| 13:24 | <annevk> | Oh, Mac uses .profile? |
| 13:24 | <annevk> | http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/12993/why-doesnt-bashrc-run-automatically |
| 13:25 | <darobin> | yes |
| 13:25 | <annevk> | that worked |
| 13:25 | <darobin> | you have to adapt "bashrc" to your platform :) |
| 13:26 | <Domenic_> | my platform is the highly-popular Git Bash on Windows, so I can see why this might have been confusing -_- |
| 13:27 | <darobin> | lol |
| 13:31 | <annevk> | Domenic_: ta |
| 13:44 | <jgraham> | Domenic_: I guess you are the wrong person to ask how you get bash and python working in the same shell in windows? I was looking at getting the web-platform-tests running but something required both git and python, which didn't seem to want to work together in the msys.git shell I had |
| 13:45 | <Domenic_> | jgraham: I think Git Bash + installing Python using the installer has worked fine for me in the past. |
| 13:46 | <jgraham> | Hmm, OK |
| 13:46 | <jgraham> | maybe I just had path problems then |
| 13:46 | <jgraham> | I think this was the point at which the VM locked my computer |
| 13:46 | <jgraham> | and I have been to scared to try since |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | jgraham: https://www.google.com/search?q=virtuelenv+windows ? |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | jgraham: even corrects typos |
| 13:48 | <arv> | annevk: dom.spec.whatwg.org is serving an empty document at the moment |
| 13:48 | <annevk> | hmm, the script works, I wonder if GH changed something |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | seems like GH fucked up my syncing |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | I just turned fetch blank |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | thanks arv, I'll investigate |
| 13:51 | <annevk> | well fuck, if I fetch https://raw.githubusercontent.com/whatwg/fetch/master/Overview.html it works, if I fetch it from the server, it doesn't |
| 13:53 | <Domenic_> | what does "fetch it from the server" mean? |
| 13:53 | <Domenic_> | curl? |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | curl -k |
| 13:55 | <darobin> | annevk: any chance you're using https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/raw/master/Overview.html instead of the link you posted above? |
| 13:55 | <darobin> | (GitHub recently changed that and is redirecting) |
| 13:55 | <annevk> | nope |
| 13:55 | <annevk> | but actually curl directly works, it's just curl -k x > y that fails |
| 13:56 | <annevk> | within a shell script |
| 13:56 | <darobin> | does the script fail when invoked directly, or only under cron? |
| 13:57 | <darobin> | annevk: can you try using -o output-file.html instead of > ? |
| 13:57 | <annevk> | darobin: it doesn't necessarily fail, it just downloads no data |
| 13:58 | <darobin> | annevk: by fail I meant not do what you want |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | -o doesn't make a difference |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | nothing in the error log |
| 13:59 | <darobin> | mmmmm |
| 13:59 | <darobin> | does that curl work with anything else? |
| 13:59 | <zewt> | even if you isolate it? not like there's any difference to curl... |
| 14:00 | <darobin> | can you maybe paste what you're using? |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | #!/bin/sh |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | echo "Content-type: text/plain" |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | echo "" |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | curl -k https://raw.github.com/whatwg/fetch/master/Overview.html > index.html |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | echo "teehee" |
| 14:00 | <Domenic_> | i think you need -l to follow redirects |
| 14:01 | <Domenic_> | raw.github.com redirects these days |
| 14:01 | <annevk> | running curl outside the shell script works fine |
| 14:01 | <Domenic_> | sorry -L |
| 14:01 | <Domenic_> | i am surprised that it works outside. but unsurprised that it fails inside. |
| 14:02 | <zewt> | that curl (without -k) works fine for me |
| 14:03 | <zewt> | there's no redirect |
| 14:03 | <annevk> | adding -L helps |
| 14:03 | <zewt> | (with the githubusercontent URL earlier) |
| 14:03 | <zewt> | err, confused--the url you pasted in that script != the well fuck URL |
| 14:03 | <annevk> | yup |
| 14:04 | <annevk> | I wonder what is stable these days |
| 14:04 | <Domenic_> | it's frustrating they didn't have a switchover period |
| 14:04 | <zewt> | seems like a bug that curl doesn't follow redirects by default |
| 14:09 | <annevk> | arv: thanks fixed |
| 14:09 | <annevk> | Domenic_: looks like they changed URLs twice already |
| 14:09 | <arv> | Thanks annevk |
| 14:09 | <annevk> | Domenic_: some of my scripts had -L and are fetching from github.com and not raw.github.com |
| 14:10 | <Domenic_> | ah yeah back in the day |
| 14:10 | <annevk> | I added -L, removed -k as that seems bad, and have not updated URLs; I should probably write a more generic script to handle all this at some point |
| 14:10 | <zewt> | were you expecting a stable web api D: |
| 14:12 | <annevk> | My experience writing web services is generally bad |
| 14:12 | <annevk> | And I'm doing the most trivial of things |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: autocomplete for cc list is awesome, thanks for adding |
| 14:27 | <annevk> | foolip: hey, yt? |
| 14:27 | <annevk> | foolip: are you still maintaining the splitter script? |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | Okay, so I think the fix is to replace .//*[@class="head"] with something that does subscring matching |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | XPath has no support for classes so... |
| 14:30 | <annevk> | Hmm [tokenize(@class,'\s+')='atag'] |
| 14:30 | <annevk> | But that's XPath 2.0 |
| 14:31 | <annevk> | Otherwise contains(@class,'atag') which has obvious flaws but might be good enough |
| 14:33 | <annevk> | contains() is not even supported here |
| 14:33 | <annevk> | LOL standards |
| 14:34 | <jgraham> | Which XPath lib are you using? |
| 14:35 | <annevk> | I have no idea |
| 14:35 | <annevk> | I'm trying to debug this over ssh in nano :/ |
| 14:36 | <annevk> | jgraham: etree? |
| 14:38 | <annevk> | jgraham: https://docs.python.org/2/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#xml.etree.ElementTree.Element.find afaict |
| 14:42 | <jgraham> | annevk: Element.find != xpath |
| 14:42 | <jgraham> | It's like a very crappy sub-xpath thing |
| 14:42 | <annevk> | jgraham: https://code.google.com/p/html5/source/browse/trunk/spec-splitter/spec-splitter.py#94 I see |
| 14:42 | <annevk> | I'll repeat: LOL standards |
| 14:43 | <jgraham> | annevk: You should be able to use .xpath I think |
| 14:44 | <jgraham> | http://lxml.de/xpathxslt.html#xpath |
| 14:45 | <foolip> | annevk: oh hi |
| 14:45 | <jgraham> | http://xmlsoft.org/html/libxml-xpathInternals.html should tell you which functions are implemented |
| 14:45 | <foolip> | annevk: I guess I don't, I haven't had cause to fiddle with it |
| 14:46 | <annevk> | jgraham: I replaced it with //header |
| 14:46 | <annevk> | jgraham: seems to work |
| 14:46 | <jgraham> | OK |
| 14:48 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: do you have interest in moving spec-splitter to github.com? |
| 14:48 | <annevk> | Hixie: are you planning on rewriting the spec-splitter? |
| 14:55 | <annevk> | foolip: ok, thanks |
| 15:23 | <annevk> | Maybe we should call it "unicodelatin1" |
| 15:23 | <annevk> | Unicode actually calls that block Latin-1 Supplement, so not too far off |
| 15:29 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: fwiw, cssselect implements class selectors as [@class and contains(concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' '), 'head')] |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: you don't have XPath 2.0? |
| 15:30 | <SimonSapin> | nope |
| 15:30 | <SimonSapin> | 1.0 |
| 15:31 | <SimonSapin> | that’s what libxml2 (used by lxml) implements |
| 15:31 | <annevk> | you should do ' head ', no? |
| 15:31 | <SimonSapin> | ah, yes |
| 15:31 | <annevk> | XPath is weird |
| 15:32 | <SimonSapin> | https://github.com/SimonSapin/cssselect/blob/master/cssselect/xpath.py#L532-L534 |
| 15:32 | <SimonSapin> | translating Selectors to XPath is an horrible, horrible idea |
| 15:33 | <annevk> | I think I can agree to that without having attempted it |
| 15:33 | <SimonSapin> | and does not actually work (some Selectors are impossible to express in XPath AFAICT.) |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | Well everything that requires observing state would require some newer form of XPath that allows custom functions |
| 15:34 | <SimonSapin> | observing state? |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | :hover |
| 15:35 | <jgraham> | XPath does allow custom functions, no? |
| 15:35 | <jgraham> | Or is that only XPath 2? |
| 15:35 | <SimonSapin> | Yeah, no. Don’t even go down that road. |
| 15:35 | <jgraham> | Which road? The custom functions road? |
| 15:35 | <SimonSapin> | :hover just never matches in cssselect |
| 15:35 | <jgraham> | Or :hover? |
| 15:35 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah we should move the splitter source to github |
| 15:35 | <SimonSapin> | jgraham: implementing :hover in XPath |
| 15:36 | <jgraham> | Right, that would be weird |
| 15:36 | <jgraham> | It depends on a non-obsevable bit that can't be set in most implementations |
| 15:36 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: if you still have that Google repo locally, might be worth deleting the stuff we already moved, to make it more clear it's no longer being maintained there |
| 15:36 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: ok |
| 15:39 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 15:49 | <JonathanNeal> | Hixie: are alts not being respected in document outline for things like <h1><img alt="Title" src="path/to/image.jpg"></h1> ? |
| 15:50 | <Domenic_> | Oooh good question |
| 15:55 | <jgraham> | JonathanNeal: The spec doesn't say anything about that |
| 15:56 | <jgraham> | the spec says that the <h1> element is the heading element for that section |
| 15:56 | <jgraham> | It doesn't say how to extract the text content of the heading, afaict |
| 15:59 | <JonathanNeal> | Okay, was told there might be an issue, which is why I asked. So, when a heading contains <img alt="Title">, what do browsers do with the <img> presently? What (if any) document tells them to use the alt attribute? |
| 16:00 | <SteveF> | JonathonNeal: browsers don't do anything, javascript implementations and http://validator.w3.org/nu/ don't pick up the alt text |
| 16:00 | <jgraham> | As far as I know there isn't any document that tells them to use alt. Or to use the .textContent of the heading |
| 16:01 | <jgraham> | SteveF: Seems like a good time to submit some PRs |
| 16:01 | <annevk> | JonathanNeal: you should probably file a bug, I think there's an XXX marker in the specification close to the definition "text content" but I might misremember |
| 16:01 | <SteveF> | example http://validator.w3.org/nu/?showoutline=yes&doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apple.com%2Fiphone%2Faccessories%2F |
| 16:02 | <SteveF> | jgraham: raise a bug more likely |
| 16:04 | <SteveF> | jgraham: "As far as I know there isn't any document that tells them to use alt. Or to use the .textContent of the heading" right, which is suboptimal |
| 16:05 | <JonathanNeal> | annevk: thanks. This is probably my first time filing a bug, so I apologize for its messiness https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25493 |
| 16:11 | <annevk> | Domenic_: if JavaScript had immutable arrays, people would use them |
| 16:11 | <Domenic_> | annevk: maybe. maybe not. |
| 16:11 | <Domenic_> | the language is *so* mutable |
| 16:12 | <Domenic_> | tbh I think frozen arrays are cool but I am mostly echoing wycats___ and dherman. |
| 16:12 | <jgraham> | FWIW it looks like the right patch in validator.nu is to add a switch in https://github.com/validator/validator/blob/master/src/nu/validator/servlet/OutlineBuildingXMLReaderWrapper.java#L427 that checks inElement and in case HEADING_CONTENT_ELEMENT checks for a HTML img element with a alt attribute and, if one exists, adds its characters to currentSection.getHeadingTextBuilder() |
| 16:12 | <Domenic_> | and i see their point about frozen sucking in general and so the fact that it works by accident on arrays not meaning we should use it. |
| 16:13 | <annevk> | Well, I agree that frozen is weird |
| 16:14 | <annevk> | I wonder if Event.path is always a set |
| 16:14 | <annevk> | Or if shadow DOM makes it a graph, I guess it's still a set |
| 16:15 | <zewt> | python has immutable arrays (tuples), but the only reason I really use them is convention |
| 16:15 | <zewt> | (i think they're faster to create too, but i rarely write python for performance) |
| 16:20 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: yeah that sounds right |
| 16:37 | <annevk> | So the main problem with the current request concept setup is that there's a bunch of it describing a request, and there's a bunch of it that is processing input to build up more of the request |
| 16:38 | <annevk> | E.g. "author headers" is input for modifying the headers of a request per a given set of rules |
| 16:38 | <Domenic_> | TabAtkins: haha wow that old grid spec exceeded my expectations when I read "barely translated C++ code" |
| 16:39 | <TabAtkins> | Now imagine fantasai and I poring over it for two hours, scribbling notes on a whiteboard next to us, then each of going to separate desks to translate it into our own words, so that later we can compare algos and make sure we got things right. |
| 16:43 | <TabAtkins> | Domenic_: You can still see the intermediate state of the more complicated part of the algo at http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-grid/#translated-algo , where I tried a more direct translation into English while fantasai tried a more idiomatic translation (which turned out to be wrong in several details, which is why we did separate passes). |
| 17:42 | <annevk> | wycats___: feel like we've gone full circle, nobody is surprised I think |
| 17:43 | <annevk> | wycats___: just annoyed |
| 18:20 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: you're hilarious |
| 18:21 | <annevk> | https://twitter.com/tabatkins/status/460840981185581056 |
| 18:21 | <TabAtkins> | ^_^ |
| 18:22 | <Domenic_> | I really liked https://twitter.com/tabatkins/status/460839870995263488 |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | heh |
| 18:25 | <Domenic_> | Do CGs get the same patent commitments as e.g. webapps? Seems doubtful. |
| 18:26 | <TabAtkins> | When you publish a FSD, you get sign-offs from everyone in the CG, and that's equivalent in power to the sign-offs we get by default when publishing through normal W3C process. |
| 18:26 | <Domenic_> | so if the CG membership was as large as webapps then it would be equivalent. |
| 18:26 | <annevk> | The main problem is that CG is opt-in and WGs are opt-out |
| 18:26 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah. |
| 18:27 | <annevk> | Note though that none of the plagiarized work made it to REC and so none of it is protected |
| 18:28 | <Domenic_> | Yeah. |
| 18:28 | <Domenic_> | That's the worst part. |
| 18:32 | <annevk> | I think I got more Twitter notifications in the past hour than in the rest of the year |
| 19:59 | <estellevw> | question on http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/states-of-the-type-attribute.html#range-state-(type=range) - multiple attribute. |
| 19:59 | <estellevw> | example code |
| 20:00 | <estellevw> | <input type=range min=0 max=24 value=0,24 step=1.0 ... |
| 20:00 | <estellevw> | oninput="o1.value = valueLow + ':00'; o2.value = valueHigh + ':00'"> |
| 20:00 | <estellevw> | doesn't have the multiple attribute set |
| 20:00 | <estellevw> | is it necessary to include multiple, or does the comma in the value suffice |
| 20:00 | <estellevw> | ? |
| 20:00 | <Domenic_> | good question... |
| 20:01 | <estellevw> | also, any implementers? |
| 20:01 | <Domenic_> | looks like a spec bug on first glance |
| 20:01 | <annevk> | estellevw: spec bug |
| 20:01 | <annevk> | estellevw: although it does say ... so you could assume multiple to be specified there... |
| 20:04 | <estellevw> | I did assume it was a spec example bug, but wanted to be sure. |
| 20:25 | <Ms2ger> | "We will be having our scheduled DOM L3 Events call tomorrow (October 1st)." |
| 20:58 | <Ms2ger> | "I was going to make an XSLT markup joke, but then I remembered that Twitter only allows 140 characters." |
| 20:58 | <Ms2ger> | Eric Meyer++ |
| 21:04 | <IZh> | http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2F192.168.0.1%2F |
| 21:04 | <IZh> | It seems that validator doesn't check for private networks. |
| 21:05 | <IZh> | It could be used to guess web-servers on nearby local PCs. |
| 21:14 | <IZh> | http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Flocalhost%3A65536 |
| 21:14 | <IZh> | Intetnal error. |
| 21:37 | <Hixie> | annevk: eventually, but not any time soon |
| 21:41 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: top line goes into summary, second and subsequent lines into the comment, iirc |
| 21:57 | <SamB_> | er, as I understand it you need to leave a blank line after the summary |
| 22:04 | <Hixie> | on what? |
| 22:05 | <SamB> | Hixie: or some things think the next line is also summary |
| 22:05 | <Hixie> | i'm talking about the bug form |
| 22:05 | <SamB> | oh! |
| 22:05 | SamB | was thinking git ... |
| 22:06 | <SamB> | what bug form is that? I thought bugzilla had separate fields for each of those |
| 22:10 | <Hixie> | the one on the spec |
| 22:10 | <Hixie> | html spec |
| 22:11 | <SamB> | ah |
| 22:12 | SamB | hasn't looked at that for a few days; he's been using an even older computer than usual because the fan on his usual one had gotten WAAAY too noisy and he was waiting for a replacement in the mail ... |
| 22:12 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 22:21 | <Domenic_> | 500 on http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=8582&to=8583 |
| 22:35 | <Domenic_> | (fixed itself) |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | umm.... |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | hey anne |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | the tracker is missing some entries :-) |
| 22:47 | <Hixie> | e.g. r8580 |