| 02:46 | <P0rk> | Hey all, I was directed here from #html. Wonder where i could research a suggestion to have a <radio> element that works like <select>? |
| 05:45 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: yes, but it would solve the caching problem |
| 06:05 | <zcorpan> | Domenic: i think webidl supports dashes now |
| 06:05 | <zcorpan> | Domenic: at least for attribute names |
| 06:08 | <zcorpan> | http://heycam.github.io/webidl/#prod-identifier |
| 06:27 | <annevk> | Domenic: oh :-( |
| 06:27 | <annevk> | It's surprising how quickly APIs look dated |
| 06:32 | <zcorpan> | MediaError is from 2007 |
| 06:32 | <zcorpan> | i think |
| 07:32 | <annevk> | http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/drafts/tracking-dnt.html :-( |
| 07:36 | <zcorpan> | is DNT doing anything other than increasing fingerprinting in practice? |
| 07:37 | <zcorpan> | they put it on window?? |
| 07:38 | <annevk> | I think they will put it back on navigator after I complained |
| 07:39 | <annevk> | But there's still a ton of issues with the whole thing |
| 07:39 | <annevk> | And Apple perhaps together with Microsoft are proposing a ton of APIs surface around it as well as you can see |
| 07:39 | <annevk> | With nobody really paying attention |
| 07:43 | <zcorpan> | i thought the original idea was to convey 1 bit of information from client to server |
| 08:10 | <annevk> | Yeah, that's why the W3C has charters, so things don't get out of hand. Oh wait |
| 09:06 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, doh |
| 09:37 | <zcorpan> | http://www.w3.org/mid/1412708231.2969.29.camel@chacal (re createElement and namespaces) |
| 09:56 | <smaug____> | why do people use readystatechange events with XHR? |
| 09:57 | <caitp> | why not? |
| 10:02 | <zcorpan> | smaug____: cargo cult from 2005? |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | Domenic: if you're awake, care to look at https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#fetch-api |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | JakeA: ^ (though I guess you're busy) |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | Anyone else welcome too of course, just looking for some basic feedback on whether this is okay or not |
| 10:05 | <JakeA> | annevk: will look at the weekend :D |
| 10:07 | <smaug____> | caitp: harder to read code. |
| 10:07 | <smaug____> | zcorpan: could be |
| 10:15 | <annevk> | smaug____: examples in the spec should prolly change to not use it |
| 10:15 | <annevk> | smaug____: will do that now |
| 10:20 | <annevk> | smaug____: readystatechange is the only event you can use to process headers as early as possible |
| 10:24 | <smaug____> | hmm |
| 10:24 | <smaug____> | how so? |
| 10:25 | <smaug____> | or is that about the implementation difference |
| 10:25 | <annevk> | because it's the only one that's dispatched at that time |
| 10:25 | <smaug____> | browsers fire load for upload at different times |
| 10:26 | <annevk> | assume there's no body to be "uploaded" |
| 10:27 | <smaug____> | right |
| 10:27 | smaug____ | wasn't really thinking about this case earlier, but the common readyState == 4 check |
| 10:34 | <annevk> | yeah, updated those examples |
| 10:40 | <annevk> | Gmail uses getAttributeNode() :-( |
| 10:43 | <caitp> | :-( |
| 10:46 | <caitp> | it's possible they needed to to support one of their target browsers, but i guess getAttributeNode() wouldn't work right either |
| 10:46 | <caitp> | (msie9 will just fail to getAttribute() or setAttribute() reliably if there's an xml namespace anywhere) |
| 11:52 | <darobin> | oooh, fat arrow examples! annevk++ |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | darobin: using async/await seemed like a bridge too far |
| 14:53 | <darobin> | annevk: yeah, it's more remote |
| 15:16 | <tomvg> | the HTML spec states: "User agents may allow users to selectively block or slow media data downloads." (https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/embedded-content.html#loading-the-media-resource:media-data-4) → are there any browsers that provide this functionality? |
| 15:27 | <boogyman> | Domenic: File API use-case is for JS on server side? |
| 15:45 | <tobie> | TabAtkins: what's the current status of CSS 2.1? Is it obsoleted by all of the new CSS modules or not yet? |
| 15:45 | <Ms2ger> | Not yet |
| 15:57 | <annevk> | stacking contexts man |
| 15:57 | <annevk> | never forgot |
| 15:57 | <annevk> | forget, even |
| 16:38 | <annevk> | Domenic: why would Map not take an object literal? |
| 16:38 | <annevk> | Domenic: the nested array thing seems rather cumbersome syntax |
| 16:41 | <Domenic> | boogyman: not sure why you're asking me (or why you always go offline shortly after asking questions :P) |
| 16:41 | <Domenic> | annevk: because Map keys can be arbitrary objects, but object keys cannot |
| 16:42 | <annevk> | Domenic: fair I suppose, we don't have that constrain here |
| 16:42 | <Domenic> | annevk: yeah but you do want to allow duplicate keys which objects don't allow |
| 16:43 | <annevk> | Domenic: I don't think it matters that using convenience syntax does not enable all of the features |
| 16:43 | <Domenic> | annevk: agreed just means you want to support both IMO. |
| 16:44 | <annevk> | Domenic: no disagreement there |
| 16:44 | <annevk> | Domenic: I guess the object literal thing got lost somehow |
| 16:45 | <Domenic> | annevk: yeah I think that's what happened, when I was writing that PR I didn't even remember that was a desire. |
| 16:46 | <annevk> | I guess I have to wait a month for heycam to get back and then hopefully he can fix it |
| 16:50 | <Domenic> | I can PR an adding-map-elementsfrom-open-ended-dictionaries sometime in the next week and maybe bz can merge? |
| 16:50 | <tobie> | Ms2ger: ty |
| 16:51 | <annevk> | Domenic: sgtm |
| 16:53 | <annevk> | Hixie: when is your DreamHost server getting updated? This weekend? |
| 17:06 | <annevk> | Hmm, HTTP caches are hard. I don't think I'm going to get that bug fixed today at this rate |
| 17:26 | <TabAtkins> | tobie: Yeah, various parts of 2.1 are still around. |
| 17:27 | <TabAtkins> | SimonSapin and I have a planned project to publish a "CSS 3.1" module that is just all the parts of 2.1 that haven't been obsoleted by anything else yet. We'd whittle it down until it was empty. |
| 17:41 | <annevk> | How about you publish a project called "CSS" and you know, define CSS :-P |
| 17:43 | <TabAtkins> | annevk: Yeah, I'll get right on that, when I have a few years of nothing else to do. |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | Hixie: thanks for the stylesheet adjustments btw |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | Hixie: actually thought Domenic had a custom stylesheet for Streams when I read it on my phone |
| 17:50 | <annevk> | Hixie: turns out things improved :-) |
| 17:53 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: mostly kidding, you are doing great work |
| 17:53 | TabAtkins | sobs. |
| 17:53 | <TabAtkins> | No, it's too late! I know your true feelings! |
| 17:54 | terinjokes | gives TabAtkins a large trout |
| 18:01 | <Domenic> | console spec needs a logo guys https://github.com/terinjokes/console-spec/issues/7 |
| 18:08 | <TabAtkins> | Domenic: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3246 ? |
| 18:09 | <Domenic> | seems legit. terinjokes ^ |
| 18:10 | <terinjokes> | did you just do that? |
| 18:10 | <Domenic> | he cheated and used text instead of geometries |
| 18:10 | <terinjokes> | cheater! |
| 18:11 | <terinjokes> | everyone knows you need to import Open Sans for your SVGs |
| 18:11 | <TabAtkins> | Haha, wtv |
| 18:11 | <terinjokes> | :) |
| 18:12 | <TabAtkins> | You can trace it into geometry. |
| 19:16 | <JakeA> | TabAtkins: btw, that CSS mistakes doc is here https://wiki.csswg.org/ideas/mistakes |
| 19:48 | <TabAtkins> | JakeA: I know that (I contributed several fo those lines), I was asking about the specific case you were asking about. |
| 19:48 | <annevk> | more logos <3 |
| 19:48 | <JakeA> | ohhh sorry, yeah, I thought your question was a bit weird |
| 19:48 | <JakeA> | it's less weird now |
| 19:49 | <JakeA> | It's CSS's 20th birthday tomorrow so I wanted some dirt to throw at Fronteers |
| 19:49 | <JakeA> | :D |
| 19:49 | <TabAtkins> | Hahaha, go for it. |
| 20:13 | <Hixie> | wtf, what happened to my database |
| 20:14 | <Hixie> | o_O |
| 20:15 | <Hixie> | oh, i nuked status.whatwg.org |
| 20:15 | <Hixie> | oops |
| 20:15 | <Hixie> | la la la |
| 20:29 | <Domenic> | what used to be there, i have no idea |
| 20:31 | <Hixie> | nothing |
| 20:31 | <Domenic> | uh huh |
| 20:31 | <Hixie> | but database.status.whatwg.org is where i had the database used by many of my whatwg-supporting services :-) |
| 20:31 | <Hixie> | it's all fixed now |
| 20:32 | <boogyman> | Domenic: I'm asking you because of the retweet you posted yesterday. As for me leaving, there are public logs if I have to leave. |
| 22:22 | <SimonSapin> | TabAtkins: we do? |
| 22:22 | <TabAtkins> | SimonSapin: I thought we talked about it off-hand at the last f2f. ^_^ |
| 22:22 | <SimonSapin> | Well, I’d like this to happen, but I don’t know if the benefits are really worth the effort |
| 22:23 | <SimonSapin> | also, I’m not so sure about the name |
| 22:23 | <TabAtkins> | haha, i made the name up off the cuff |
| 22:23 | <SimonSapin> | by which I mean "CSS 3.1" sounds terrible and likely to cause much more confusion that "CSS 4" already does |
| 22:24 | <TabAtkins> | hahaha |
| 22:24 | <SimonSapin> | :) |
| 22:28 | <TabAtkins> | "CSS Leftovers Module Level 3" |
| 22:31 | <jgraham> | CSS Pytt i Panna? |
| 22:32 | <TabAtkins> | Sure. |
| 23:19 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: CSS Sundries? |
| 23:29 | <MikeSmith> | "I have come to the conclusion that so much in IPv6 design and implementation has been botched by protocol designers and vendors (both ours and others) that it is simply unsafe to run IPv6 on a production network except in very limited geographical circumstances and with very tight central administration of hosts." |
| 23:30 | <MikeSmith> | "We have seen Windows machines with more than 300 IPv6 addresses — which, recall, means that every 150 seconds they will be transmitting 30 multicast packets per second which have to be flooded through the network." |
| 23:30 | <MikeSmith> | http://blog.bimajority.org/2014/09/05/the-network-nightmare-that-ate-my-week/ |