| 01:59 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: pushed another commit to fix that. thanks for catching it |
| 07:49 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=1010 and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096172 are htmlparser bugs I raised today that I think don't affect the parser in gecko. Please let me know if there's some other place I should submit patches for bugs like that -- I mean other than through bugzilla.mozilla.org |
| 08:51 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: you don't sleep long |
| 09:02 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: I get some extra sleep on the train :) going to the office 3 days a week these days |
| 09:32 | annevk | tries to reply to all the emails |
| 09:52 | <jgraham> | annevk: Mind doing mine too? |
| 09:53 | <annevk> | hah |
| 09:54 | <jgraham> | Well about 98% of my email is telling me that a test I wrote is unstable and no one either disabled it or fixed it in the last two weeks |
| 09:56 | <annevk> | jgraham: speaking of tests, really amazed with the infrastructure you guys put together for web-platform-tests |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | https://twitter.com/larsberg_/status/531641273959333889 :-) |
| 10:22 | <Ms2ger> | :) |
| 11:03 | <jgraham> | Pretty sure that Ms2ger is actually the one running the whole show |
| 11:04 | <annevk> | About time Björn Höhrmann got a replacement |
| 11:04 | <Ms2ger> | Ha |
| 11:04 | Ms2ger | starts sending rambling emails about rust packages to www-archive |
| 11:04 | <jgraham> | Why do you think they are different entities? |
| 11:40 | <Ducki> | hi |
| 11:41 | <annevk> | jgraham: so I can't edit the hosts file on Windows |
| 11:41 | <annevk> | jgraham: the workaround I found was that 10.0.2.2 points to the Mac's localhost |
| 11:41 | <annevk> | jgraham: which is a Virtualbox feature |
| 11:41 | <annevk> | jgraham: since I'm not doing cross-origin tests, that appears to be working |
| 11:43 | <jgraham> | annevk: Hmm, why can't you edit it? |
| 11:43 | <annevk> | jgraham: it claims that file is readonly |
| 11:43 | <annevk> | jgraham: changing the readonly-ness of the directory talks about admin stuff and then fails... |
| 11:45 | <jgraham> | annevk: The internet claims it should be possible to unset the readonly bit on that file :| |
| 11:58 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, while you're in a testing mood, https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/3138 might be of interest to you :) |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | jgraham: that "sign in" problem though... |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: done |
| 12:07 | <Ms2ger> | I guess I never have sign-in issues because I have critic in a pinned tab |
| 12:07 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, thanks |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | Does IDL now do nested dictionaries? |
| 12:54 | <Ms2ger> | What are those? |
| 12:57 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: e.g. new Notification(..., { behavior: { vibrate: [2, 3, 2, 3] }}) |
| 12:57 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, I think those always existed |
| 12:59 | <annevk> | Pretty sure that is not true |
| 13:20 | <hsivonen> | Is the item at the end of http://www.w3.org/Consortium/mission.html really everything the W3C proclaims about privacy and mission? |
| 13:31 | <annevk> | hsivonen: well, you know how much scrutiny TR/ stuff gets, this is worse |
| 13:35 | <matijs> | annevk: edit the host file on windows by running notepad as administrator (or start cmd as administrator if you prefer command line edit) |
| 13:35 | <annevk> | matijs: how does that even work? |
| 13:41 | <annevk> | hsivonen: if you have some time, would appreciate a look at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19961#c3 |
| 13:42 | <jgraham> | annevk: You should be able to right click items on the start menu and do "Run as Administrator" |
| 13:43 | <matijs> | annevk: Right click in the start menu is the new sudo |
| 14:15 | <zcorpan> | annevk: looks like https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19961#c3 was cut off. i guess you used a non-BMP character? |
| 14:25 | <annevk> | zcorpan: oh god |
| 14:27 | <annevk> | zcorpan: added a comment that doesn't have that problem |
| 15:20 | <matijs> | 1f4a9 :D |
| 15:22 | <caitp> | carlooooos! |
| 17:29 | <caitp> | answer in one sentence or less, why you think the web is the greatest country on earth |
| 17:30 | <danbri> | caitp, because it's the easiest to make a backup of? |
| 17:31 | <jgraham> | "who the hell are you and how did you get into my house". Or at least that's what TimBL said when I asked him. (with apologies to xkcd) |
| 17:32 | <caitp> | first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one |
| 17:36 | <caitp> | but jeff daniels is right, the web is not the greatest country in the world, and he doesn't know what the eff you're talking about, with all of the crazy nonsense baked into the platform, if only there was some way to make it less terrible |
| 17:37 | <gsnedders> | Greatest or least bad? :) |
| 17:38 | <caitp> | like five eyes, the web is pretty much in the pockets of the other terrible countries in the world, and as such is not any less bad |
| 17:39 | <caitp> | not that that's the webs fault, per se |
| 17:40 | <caitp> | anyways, that's your motivational talk for today, now focus on making the web a better place =) |
| 17:40 | <jgraham> | (I have literally no idea what you are talking about btw) |
| 17:41 | <caitp> | it's vague by design, you could apply it to any particular problem and motivate yourself to solve it, or to cry about how unfixable it is |
| 17:42 | <caitp> | but maybe things don't have to be unfixable |
| 18:43 | <annevk> | https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/531835851287056385 o_O |
| 20:38 | <rubys> | annevk: should javascript:alert("Hello, world!"); be a parse error? See http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/liveview.html#javascript:alert%28%22Hello,%20world!%22%29; |
| 21:21 | <annevk> | rubys: yeah, at least " " is not a URL code point |
| 21:23 | <annevk> | rubys: note that I have been thinking about relaxing some of these rules, but so far I tried to follow the RFCs on conformance, except for a couple of differences with RFC 3987 that seemed wrong in that RFC |
| 21:24 | <annevk> | rubys: dfn.js breaking is really painful |
| 21:24 | <annevk> | rubys: but I can fix that next week most likely |
| 21:24 | <annevk> | rubys: you were back next week as well, right? Can we just do the bikeshed transition then? |
| 21:27 | <jarek> | Hi |
| 21:28 | <jarek> | Is there any standardisation effort to introduce cursor manager API like CursorManager in Flash? |
| 21:28 | <jarek> | this API is important for rich desktop-like application |
| 21:32 | <rubys> | annevk: I should be back next week, yes. |
| 21:34 | <tantek> | jarek - what are your specific use-cases for cursors? i.e. what scenario in what kind of "desktop-like application"? can you be more specific? |
| 21:35 | <rubys> | annevk: in case you didn't notice, I've tried to implement IDNA processing: http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/idna.js I also found a unicode normalizer https://github.com/walling/unorm |
| 21:36 | <tantek> | jarek, for starters, perhaps check out the CSS 'cursor' property and what you need beyond that. |
| 21:37 | <jarek> | tantek: simillar API is present in all desktop toolkits |
| 21:38 | <jarek> | tantek: for example, I have an app with a canvas widget and a slider widget. When cursor is over canvas I want to show "zoom" cursor, but when user drags the slider I want to change the cursor to "resize" (even if user drags the cursor over canvas) |
| 21:39 | <jarek> | tantek: for starters CSS is enough, but for complex desktop-like apps you need abstraction on top of it |
| 21:40 | <jarek> | that will allow you to register/unregister cursors and assign weights to them |
| 21:56 | <Hixie> | so have you people seen this? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen |
| 21:56 | <Hixie> | the w3c wants to come up with a way to even shake non-companies for money |
| 21:57 | <annevk> | rubys: oh cool |
| 21:57 | <tantek> | Hixie, I think they offer a t-shirt |
| 21:57 | <annevk> | rubys: perhaps that makes it easier to work out a syntax production for valid domain names |
| 21:58 | <Hixie> | tantek: bloody expensive t-shirt |
| 21:59 | <tantek> | Hixie, people pay lots of money for branded clothing & accessories of various sorts |
| 22:02 | <jarek> | "Add a line on the CV that shows commitment to the advances of Web standards" :) |
| 22:03 | <Hixie> | i can't believe how brazen that is, even for the w3c |
| 22:03 | <Hixie> | i love how the goals section has all the w3c's goals first |
| 22:03 | <Hixie> | that's so symbolic |
| 22:03 | <tantek> | Hixie, IIRC it was in response to *requests* from some number of folks to be able to do that |
| 22:03 | <rubys> | annevk: disallowed code points are clearly a parse error. Would ignored and/or mapped code points be a recoverable parse error? |
| 22:04 | <annevk> | Hixie: I saw it, but it didn't make much sense...https://twitter.com/annevk/status/445628553556930560 Jeff himself said it best: "Valuable membership forces the price to be too high for this program." |
| 22:04 | <annevk> | rubys: what's the difference? |
| 22:05 | <annevk> | rubys: oh wait, you're talking conformance |
| 22:06 | <rubys> | annevk: yes |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | tantek: man, i wish people would ask _us_ if they could send us money |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | well, except for the tax implications |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | rubys: I still had the javascript URL in my mind, not IDNA |
| 22:06 | <tantek> | Hixie, you mean people haven't? |
| 22:06 | <tantek> | we've definitely gotten requests to accept donations at microformats.org and indiewebcamp.com |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | oh man i have the best idea for a whatwg membership program |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | rubys: yeah, that sounds about right for IDNA |
| 22:06 | <tantek> | Hixie, you could print ID cards and hand them out ;) |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | we ask people to write their address on an envelope, and to stamp the envelope |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | then put some money on the envelope |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | then post it |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | er, in, not on |
| 22:06 | <tantek> | Hixie, what's an address? |
| 22:06 | <tantek> | Is that like a URL? |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | it's a url for the physical web |
| 22:07 | <tantek> | what scheme does it use? |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_(geography) |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | ("depends on the country") |
| 22:07 | tantek | goes to create a wikipedia redirect thanks to bad auto-linker in Colloquy |
| 22:09 | <rubys> | annevk: possible exception: uppercase is mapped to lowercase. Would uppercase be conforming or not? |
| 22:09 | <annevk> | rubys: I guess we need to allow either ASCII or Unicode as input, perhaps if input is only ASCII, require ToASCII(ToUnicode(ToASCII(input))) === input and when it's Unicode require ToUnicode(ToASCII(input)) === input |
| 22:09 | <annevk> | ooh |
| 22:09 | <annevk> | rubys: should probably not be |
| 22:10 | <annevk> | rubys: because IDNA2008 does not have such a mapping |
| 22:10 | <tantek> | Hixie I don't see any address URL schemes defined in that page. |
| 22:10 | <annevk> | rubys: so the address would not be portable for "pure" IDNA2008 systems (if those would exist...) |
| 22:10 | <tantek> | Hixie, perhaps you meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_URI ? |
| 22:10 | <annevk> | rubys: but if we start taking that into account things get tricky fast |
| 22:11 | tantek | checks URL spec to see if it includes geo: |
| 22:11 | <tantek> | apparently not. |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | tantek: URL specification defines infrastructure, not all URL types |
| 22:12 | <tantek> | annevk - seems to define parts of some URL schemes here: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#urls |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | tantek: infrastructure unfortunately relies on knowledge of some scheme names |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | tantek: it's somewhere between XML and HTML at this point |
| 22:13 | <tantek> | is there a criteria about what needs to go into that table and not? |
| 22:14 | <annevk> | tantek: yeah, it's for legacy parsing rules basically |
| 22:15 | <annevk> | anyway, you all have fun, nn |
| 22:17 | <tantek> | Hixie perhaps you need to define an "adr:" address scheme for your "address" requests. Note that vCard4 has an "ADR:" property that sorta looks like it might fit your needs, perhaps you can extract and repurpose. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-6.3.1 |
| 22:18 | <rubys> | tantek: FYI http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/url.html#url |
| 22:18 | <jarek> | Is UndoManager spec dead? |
| 22:21 | <Hixie> | tantek: i was being deadpan to your facetious comments, sorry to confuse you :-P |
| 22:25 | <tantek> | Hixie - it's ok, I'm easily confused, especially where web standards are concerned. :P |
| 22:26 | <tantek> | so I just keep asking questions :) |
| 22:26 | <tantek> | rubys did you mean http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/url.html#relative-scheme ? |
| 22:27 | <tantek> | Hixie, also, addresses are a pain (almost as much as "person" formats), and people keep unnecessarily reinventing them in much worse versions than vCard. |
| 22:32 | <Hixie> | tantek: vCard doesn't support chinese addresses :-( |
| 22:32 | <tantek> | Hixie, oh? Thought it did. |
| 22:32 | <Hixie> | tantek: we had to extend it in html's autocomplete stuff |
| 22:32 | <tantek> | any particular Chinese addresses you had trouble encoding? |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | any with more than two locality/region fields |
| 22:33 | <tantek> | Hixie, hence the cardinality of those fields changed in vCard4 |
| 22:33 | <tantek> | you can have more than one |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | ah, cool, same thing we did in autocomplete basically |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | (though limited to 4) |
| 22:33 | <tantek> | yes. fixed years ago. |
| 22:34 | <tantek> | for an email-list-only based standard, vCard4 is not bad, and definitely a big improvement over vCard3 in many ways. |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | well except that it's versioned and specced in a snapshot format :-P |
| 23:17 | <rniwa> | wycats: yt? |
| 23:17 | <jarek> | rniwa: what is the status of UndoManager spec? |
| 23:18 | <rniwa> | jarek: I don’t know. it’s probably abondoned? |
| 23:18 | <rniwa> | jarek: I stopped working on it since I left Google |
| 23:19 | <jarek> | rniwa: is there any alternative API proposed? |
| 23:19 | <rniwa> | jarek: don’t think |
| 23:19 | <rniwa> | jarek: so* |
| 23:19 | <rniwa> | jarek: although Microsoft implemented some enhancements to undo via execCommand |
| 23:20 | <rniwa> | jarek: see http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/10/24/enhanced-rich-editing-experiences-in-ie11.aspx |
| 23:20 | <jarek> | Mozilla did implement the spec: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=617532 |
| 23:20 | <rniwa> | jarek: wow! |
| 23:20 | <jarek> | not sure if it's just a stub though... |
| 23:21 | <rniwa> | I apploud the effort if they really did |
| 23:21 | <rniwa> | the spec was a mess at the end... |
| 23:21 | <rniwa> | it got way too complicated |