| 00:00 | <MikeSmith> | very goog |
| 00:00 | <Krinkle> | https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ResourceLoader/Features#Flipping |
| 00:00 | <MikeSmith> | nice |
| 00:01 | MikeSmith | finds https://github.com/cssjanus/cssjanus |
| 00:01 | <MikeSmith> | ... and sees Krinkle in the commit logs |
| 00:02 | <Krinkle> | Yeah, we maintain nodejs and php ports now |
| 00:02 | <Krinkle> | the original was python |
| 00:02 | <Krinkle> | This is my area :D |
| 00:02 | <MikeSmith> | Krinkle: do you know Aryeh Gregor? |
| 00:02 | <Krinkle> | Rings a bell, though it's been a while. |
| 00:02 | <MikeSmith> | yeah he's been involved with work at MediaWiki |
| 00:03 | <Krinkle> | Ha, yeah, his nickname Simetrical |
| 00:03 | <Krinkle> | His (then, SVN) access predates mine by 2 years |
| 00:03 | <MikeSmith> | and he was yeah |
| 00:03 | <MikeSmith> | extremely clever guy |
| 00:03 | <Krinkle> | 2006, 2008 |
| 00:03 | <MikeSmith> | he also did some fundamental work on reforming the Editing stuff |
| 00:04 | <MikeSmith> | he's been mostly busy with other stuff since |
| 00:04 | <MikeSmith> | but he sometimes has time go come back and help with feedback and insights now and then |
| 00:18 | <MikeSmith> | Krinkle: anyway in case you didn't get to it yet, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-editing-tf/ is one place where the discussions happen |
| 00:18 | <MikeSmith> | so if you point others there, they'll see some names they'd recognize |
| 00:19 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., Johannes Wilm, Olivier Forget, Piotr Koszulinski, Frederico Knabben |
| 00:19 | Krinkle | does not recognise those names |
| 00:19 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 00:20 | <Krinkle> | I know you, anne, Ms2ger, Aryeh, and maybe if I see it a few others. |
| 00:20 | <MikeSmith> | they are all developers of widely used rich-text-editing libraries |
| 00:20 | <MikeSmith> | yeah those are not whatwg people |
| 00:20 | <Krinkle> | Oh, right |
| 00:21 | <Krinkle> | I know most of the TC39 folks as well, but that's unrelated. |
| 00:21 | <MikeSmith> | the CKEditor guys etc |
| 00:21 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 00:21 | <MikeSmith> | TC39 is a whole nother world of its own |
| 00:21 | <Krinkle> | Ah yeah, I know the software (to build compatibility), but didn't know anyone from the (f)ck team. |
| 00:21 | <Krinkle> | I see Tab is here as well. Cool! |
| 00:22 | <Krinkle> | https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-editing-tf/2014Jul/0015.html |
| 00:23 | <MikeSmith> | yeah TabAtkins rocks |
| 00:23 | <MikeSmith> | ah cool to see that contact from that Wikimedia PM |
| 00:24 | <Krinkle> | he's the product manager of the VE team. I work with him most of my time (when I'm not doing MediaWiki platform and CI testing infra things) |
| 00:24 | <MikeSmith> | I see |
| 00:26 | <Krinkle> | Alrighty. I'm subscribed now. Pff, another mailing list :-) |
| 00:44 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 01:09 | <TabAtkins> | 😀 |
| 06:38 | <MikeSmith> | the twitter thread from https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/573673281338806275 is interesting |
| 06:38 | <MikeSmith> | make that https://twitter.com/davidcadrian/status/573672598384607233 |
| 06:38 | <MikeSmith> | https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/573678857007558656 |
| 06:38 | <MikeSmith> | "you get one mega STSLSSL state machine that's not compliant with any RFC" |
| 07:39 | <annevk> | It's easy to blame the implementations, but the RFCs not dealing with the reality of implementers is frustrating too |
| 07:42 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: seems to be the rule for RFC development, rather than the exception |
| 07:43 | <MikeSmith> | I wonder when they're going to get around to realizing that their spec-development process/culture is doing harm and needs some serious change |
| 07:45 | <MikeSmith> | with this SSL stuff it seems pretty like it may have been the case that implementations copied each others brokenness because none of them could figure out what the spec was supposed to be requiring |
| 07:45 | <MikeSmith> | and because of the high cost imposed by the RFC-development process/culture, and the big disincentives to ask for refinements/fixes, then this is what we end up with |
| 18:13 | <ccat> | . |
| 18:13 | <ccat> | (sorry, no Bugzilla acct) -- https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/ -- 4.4 Interface Node -- suggest: "Each [ROOT] node has an associated node document, set upon creation, that is a document". -- "Each [ROOT] node also has an associated base URL." -- reason: 4.4 lists many types of nodes but only root has doc? -- Good Luck! |
| 18:13 | <ccat> | . |
| 18:13 | <Ms2ger> | What |
| 18:22 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: ? |
| 18:24 | <Ms2ger> | What are you trying to say? |
| 18:28 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: the first descriptions of node in 4.4 seem wrong, and was suggesting how maybe to correct them |
| 18:29 | <Ms2ger> | Oh |
| 18:29 | <Ms2ger> | You're trying to say that you think only root nodes have an associated node document? |
| 18:31 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: given how node-doc and doc itself are defined (via links), yes |
| 18:32 | <Ms2ger> | Yeah, that's not true |
| 18:33 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: ANY node can have a doc? |
| 18:34 | <ccat> | -- node-doc |
| 18:38 | <Ms2ger> | No "can have", "has" |
| 18:38 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: ok, maybe not JUST the root, maybe a few others like eg, script, iframe --- but not most nodes... ? |
| 18:38 | <Ms2ger> | That's what that sentence says |
| 18:41 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: EVERY node HAS a node-doc AND a base-URL? |
| 18:42 | <Ms2ger> | Yes |
| 18:42 | <Ms2ger> | Not distinct ones, note |
| 18:42 | <Ms2ger> | The node document of a node is just what .ownerDocument returns |
| 18:43 | <ccat> | i.e. the parent doc that contains it? |
| 18:43 | <Ms2ger> | Yes |
| 18:43 | <ccat> | oh, sorry |
| 18:44 | <Ms2ger> | Base URL should be only associated with Documents, but xml:base still exists |
| 19:04 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: ok, my correction is invalid, but might wording be a little better as: "Each node is associated with a root node-document at node creation; which is the parent document that contains the node" |
| 19:06 | <ccat> | -- "has" seems to imply "contains" rather than just "possesses" |
| 19:09 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: -- ^^ actually "has" and "possesses" both seem to imply "contains" rather than just association-with |
| 21:00 | <ccat> | . |
| 21:00 | <ccat> | (sorry, no Bugzilla acct) -- https://developers.whatwg.org/tabular-data.html#attr-table-sortable -- google chromebook browser shows warning-icon for "This page includes script from unauthenticated sources." (and pictures do not load) -- Good Luck! |
| 21:00 | <ccat> | . |
| 23:21 | <ccat> | . |
| 23:23 | <ccat> | "Thus, in an HTML document, document.getElementsByTagName("FOO") will match FOO elements that are not in the HTML namespace, and foo elements that are in the HTML namespace, but not FOO elements that are in the HTML namespace." |
| 23:24 | <ccat> | -- this seems to say that you cannot get HTML elements with uppercase tags -- which seems rather wrong! |
| 23:32 | <Ms2ger> | With document.getElementsByTagName? No |
| 23:32 | <Ms2ger> | Note that <DIV>.localName == 'div' |
| 23:36 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: y, but it says not GET the FOO elements that are in the HTML namespace, and which is what that DIV would be |
| 23:36 | <Ms2ger> | It isn't |
| 23:39 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: why? confused |
| 23:43 | <ccat> | Ms2ger: so document.getElementsByTagName("DIV") should find nothing if HTML page is all UC ? |