| 11:17 | <howdoi> | howdy? |
| 11:18 | <howdoi> | I made a node module for TC39 members list -> http://git.io/tc39-members seeking help to verify the list and added the twitter handles as well, thanks. |
| 11:18 | <howdoi> | |
| 11:19 | <howdoi> | /cc @Domenic @arv |
| 12:42 | <Domenic> | howdoi: TC39 members are companies. There is no fixed list of who those companies send to represent them at each meeting. |
| 12:43 | <Domenic> | howdoi: your list looks several years out of date in terms of who attends meetings these days. |
| 12:43 | <Domenic> | check the meeting notes if that's what you're interested in. |
| 12:45 | <howdoi> | Domenic: yup, I'm aware that it's outdated, so seeking help :) Didn't find Jafar Husain from Netfilx in the list either, any other way then checking the notes, I went through the github org and there are only 8 members there. |
| 12:45 | <Domenic> | that's what i'm saying, there is no list |
| 12:45 | <Domenic> | there is just a list of companies |
| 12:45 | <Domenic> | if your repo is called tc39-members it should be a list of companies |
| 12:45 | <Domenic> | if it is called tc39-attendees-of-last-meeting it can be people |
| 12:48 | <howdoi> | Domenic: oh, hmm, so people are invited? I saw an invite that was at Redmond Microsoft |
| 12:53 | <howdoi> | Domenic: I shall divide the json to attendess and companies, makes sense? |
| 12:53 | <Ms2ger> | So why are you creating this list? |
| 12:57 | <howdoi> | Data! |
| 12:58 | <howdoi> | Raw Data! |
| 12:58 | <Ms2ger> | So why are you creating this list? |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | Domenic: can't just be companies though |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | Domenic: say, Brendan Eich |
| 13:04 | <howdoi> | ^_^ |
| 13:18 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: should have some kind of style guide for specs |
| 13:18 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I think the W3C has one, but it's not a wiki page |
| 13:18 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: so kinda blows |
| 13:20 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeahwe need one. So I'll work on making one that doesn't blow. |
| 13:21 | <Domenic> | howdoi: I don't really care what you do with this list, since it's useless and doesn't reflect reality |
| 13:21 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: should we make a github repo for it, or you think a wiki is better? |
| 13:22 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I guess that's up to you, whatever you like better |
| 13:22 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 13:23 | <MikeSmith> | I don't like wikis so the answer to that is easy |
| 13:23 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: heh, I suggest "style" as a shortname |
| 13:23 | <annevk> | but I shouldn't be bikeshedding about this |
| 13:24 | <MikeSmith> | will create a "style" repo today |
| 13:24 | <MikeSmith> | shorter short names are better |
| 13:26 | <howdoi> | Domenic: heh heh, thanks :) |
| 13:33 | <izhak> | Hi, guys! I have a very complex bad written code, a mess of html, javascript and svg (d3). When svg gets redrawn a page gets scrolled. How can I debug this, I just can't figure out how to learn why it gets scrolled. |
| 13:35 | <howdoi> | izhak: you must ask at #javascript |
| 13:37 | <izhak> | howdoi: oh, right. forgot about it :) whatwg is great anyways) |
| 13:37 | <howdoi> | :} |
| 13:50 | <gsnedders> | annevk, howdoi: http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/members.htm |
| 13:50 | <gsnedders> | in principle all ECMA members are companies or NPOs |
| 13:51 | <gsnedders> | Quite in what capacity Brendan is there… well… :) |
| 13:51 | <Domenic> | He was voted as like permanent guest or something |
| 13:51 | <annevk> | gsnedders: I guess TC39 gets to make special cases since Ecma (not ECMA) exists mostly due to it |
| 13:51 | <annevk> | Ecma, but ECMAScript, never gets old |
| 13:51 | <howdoi> | gsnedders: nice! |
| 13:52 | <annevk> | continues to exist* |
| 13:53 | <Domenic> | https://github.com/rwaldron/tc39-notes/blob/6d91c21077ea8b0eb0e9eb7e262572c23374f8c7/es6/2014-04/apr-9.md#rftg-item |
| 13:53 | <howdoi> | gsnedders: https://github.com/hemanth/tc39-members/issues/1 will be taken care of. |
| 13:53 | <annevk> | Which I think is somewhat stupid. I don't really see a good reason why'd we pay 10k a year to yet another SDO when there's already quite a few to pick from |
| 13:54 | <howdoi> | Domenic: yeah, went through the notes, as well as https://github.com/tc39 |
| 13:55 | <Ms2ger> | How about we move JS to Khronos |
| 13:55 | <MikeSmith> | I second that motion |
| 13:58 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: speaking of fun, I find https://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/ and see that it's under ye olde W3C Document License so if I start from that I'll get to deal with the Good Times of needing to talk with others about re-licensing or whatever |
| 13:59 | <MikeSmith> | might be easier to just start from scratch |
| 13:59 | <Ms2ger> | Might get better quality too |
| 13:59 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 13:59 | <MikeSmith> | well if I do that then I'll probably get "Y U NO USE WE ALREADY MADE ONE??!!" |
| 14:00 | <MikeSmith> | fun world to work in where trying to do even the simplest things are fraught |
| 14:00 | <MikeSmith> | and I do mean fraught |
| 14:01 | <annevk> | Nothing quite compares to public benefit organizations locking everything away from the public. Though a public benefit organizations whose agenda is set by corporations is bound to be somewhat fraud. |
| 14:02 | <annevk> | I guess fraught is a better term. |
| 14:05 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: I get your message. I hear you saying, "Let's go full fraught [fraud] with this and author the source in MS Word and publish it as PDF and ask jorendorff convert it to HTML." |
| 14:05 | <MikeSmith> | and I like your thinking |
| 14:05 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: and then call it KhronosScript? |
| 14:05 | <gsnedders> | Or maybe KHRONOScript? |
| 14:06 | <MikeSmith> | gsnedders: solid gold |
| 14:06 | <gsnedders> | annevk: bah, until 1994 is was ECMA! |
| 14:06 | gsnedders | ignores the fact he was two then |
| 14:06 | <MikeSmith> | magic brainstorming happening here |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | Oh. It took me like 10 years to realise that ISO is a pun |
| 14:07 | <jgraham> | I guess there's just nothing funny about ISO that suggests someone had a sense of humor |
| 14:07 | <Ms2ger> | It is? |
| 14:07 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: dramatic irony |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | slowclaps for MikeSmith & gsnedders |
| 14:07 | <jgraham> | Well I assume it comes from the Greek, as in isobar |
| 14:08 | annevk | had to look at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/isobar for that |
| 14:09 | <jgraham> | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_words_prefixed_with_iso- |
| 14:11 | <annevk> | Maybe KHRONOSScript can introduce Object.iso() to finally settle object comparison once and for all |
| 14:12 | <MikeSmith> | haha |
| 14:13 | <gsnedders> | But then we'll need an Object.khronos() when the iso decide to (mostly) republish it |
| 14:13 | <MikeSmith> | nice |
| 14:14 | <MikeSmith> | this channel achieves |
| 14:14 | <MikeSmith> | intransitively |
| 14:15 | <gsnedders> | and the WHATWG rewrite will just get rid of all of them because none of them are interoperable or relied on by web content |
| 14:44 | <philipj> | annevk: are you planning to move to GitHub only for Fullscreen? |
| 14:47 | <annevk> | philipj: yeah |
| 14:47 | <annevk> | philipj: all specs |
| 14:48 | <annevk> | philipj: but I don't really want to move Bugzilla all at once since that creates way too much noise and is not really beneficial, so instead I just encourage creating new issues in GitHub |
| 14:48 | <philipj> | annevk: yep, mass moves aren't much fun |
| 15:28 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pytest-expect/0.9 now exists, which should in future make it easy to have test expectations for html5lib |
| 15:46 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pytest-expect/0.9 now exists, which should in future make it easy to have test expectations for html5lib |
| 15:46 | <Ms2ger> | You said that |
| 15:46 | <gsnedders> | yeah, something weird with irssi and ssh connections dying |
| 15:47 | <gsnedders> | :( |
| 15:47 | <gsnedders> | miketaylr: I'd totally missed you moving to Mozilla! :) |
| 15:47 | <Ms2ger> | He did? |
| 15:47 | <miketaylr> | ha |
| 15:48 | <miketaylr> | it's only been ~2 years |
| 15:51 | <jgraham> | Change your name to mike-wait-what-he-works-for-Mozilla-now-why-did-no-one-tell-me-taylr |
| 15:52 | <miketaylr> | mike-woulda-been-fired-from-opera-eventually-probably-taylr |
| 16:05 | <espadrine> | wait, opera still exists? |
| 16:05 | <espadrine> | </joke> |
| 16:07 | <gsnedders> | how-many-web-evanglists-are-left-anyway |
| 16:08 | <annevk> | don't let JakeA hear you say evengalist |
| 16:09 | jgraham | imagines miketaylr on TV trying to raise a million dollars for the church of the web |
| 16:10 | <mounir> | tobie: yt? |
| 16:10 | <tobie> | yes |
| 16:10 | <tobie> | (surprisingly given the heat) |
| 16:10 | <mounir> | tobie: you know about respec, don't you? |
| 16:11 | <tobie> | mounir: that sounds like a trick question |
| 16:11 | <mounir> | tobie: I'm wondering how I can linkify a constructor for an interface |
| 16:11 | <tobie> | mounir: to which I should probably answer: "no." |
| 16:11 | <mounir> | tobie: you must know :) |
| 16:11 | <tobie> | mmm. |
| 16:13 | <tobie> | let me check |
| 16:15 | <Ms2ger> | Use bikeshed |
| 16:15 | <mounir> | Ms2ger: thanks for the help |
| 16:15 | <mounir> | :) |
| 16:16 | <Ms2ger> | I'm very helpful :) |
| 16:16 | <Ms2ger> | Just not in the short term |
| 16:16 | <mounir> | Ms2ger: that spec just moved away from anolis to respec |
| 16:16 | <mounir> | I don't think moving to bikeshed is an option :) |
| 16:16 | <Ms2ger> | Why in the world would you do that |
| 16:16 | <tobie> | mounir: doc is here: https://www.w3.org/respec/examples/webidl-contiguous.html#unsupported |
| 16:17 | <tobie> | https://www.w3.org/respec/examples/webidl-contiguous.html |
| 16:18 | <mounir> | tobie: I can't find how to link to the constructor |
| 16:19 | <tobie> | mounir: I'm checking for you. |
| 16:19 | <mounir> | I tried usind "Interface" and "Constructor" |
| 16:20 | <mounir> | tobie: don't waste your time on that, I'm sure I can live without the linkification |
| 16:23 | <tobie> | mounir: ping jyasskin |
| 16:23 | <annevk> | you moved from anolis to respec o_O |
| 16:24 | <mounir> | annevk: not me, that spec |
| 16:24 | <jyasskin> | tobie: I'll be available in ~10 min |
| 16:24 | <annevk> | that spec is pretty silly |
| 16:25 | <mounir> | you don't even know which spec it is yet :D |
| 16:25 | <annevk> | not sure that matters :-P |
| 16:25 | <tobie> | jyasskin: cool. mounir is asking about linking constructors to their definition with Respec. |
| 16:32 | <jyasskin> | mounir: That's not done yet: https://github.com/w3c/respec/issues/394 |
| 16:33 | <mounir> | jyasskin: thanks :) |
| 16:33 | <jyasskin> | Patches welcome? ;-) |
| 16:33 | <jyasskin> | Sorry :) |
| 17:02 | <Domenic> | annevk: https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/49 seems kind of lame; there should be tests for host/hostname too |
| 17:05 | <annevk> | yeah, it's not clear they need to be part of the parsing tests though |
| 17:10 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: when I load https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Fullscreen&product=WebAppsWG&resolution=--- I get "There was an error sending mail from 'bugzilla' to 'arun⊙mc': no sender" |
| 17:11 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: with a traceback too... |
| 17:11 | <Domenic> | annevk: seems convenient if they were; there's columns and everything for the components :P |
| 17:11 | <annevk> | Domenic: yeah, could be patched pretty trivially if someone was up to it |
| 17:11 | <Domenic> | Sebmaster ^ |
| 17:12 | <Domenic> | :P |
| 17:12 | <Domenic> | #serviceworker is not the conversational utopia i was promised on twitter. just saying. |
| 17:12 | <Sebmaster> | :< |
| 17:13 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: looking now |
| 17:13 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah same here |
| 17:14 | <Sebmaster> | I have a much bigger problem with the testability of tr46 |
| 17:14 | <Sebmaster> | :/ |
| 17:14 | <Domenic> | right that -_- |
| 17:18 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: pinged glob on #qa-bugzilla |
| 17:30 | <annevk> | Domenic: heh |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: what's the problem? |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: we can talk to Mark if we need something changed |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: feel free to file TR46 issues against whatwg/url |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | Sebmaster: so we can track them somewhat more visibly |
| 17:32 | <Sebmaster> | annevk: the available test data is weird |
| 17:32 | <Sebmaster> | I have no idea if it's idna2003, idna2008 or tr46 data... |
| 17:33 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 17:34 | <annevk> | could also file a bug against web-platform-tests to get those tests integrated into the URL tests somehow |
| 17:34 | <Sebmaster> | That'd be sweet |
| 17:35 | <Sebmaster> | Like... I pass a lot of them, but some just reference stuff which is only checked in idna2008 as far as I know |
| 17:49 | <annevk> | Do it and copy me I guess, hopefully I'll get to it one day |
| 17:53 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: bugzilla problem seems to have become worse |
| 17:53 | <MikeSmith> | I've alerted the systems team |
| 17:57 | <TabAtkins> | mounir: Which spec is it? I can be induced to do Bikeshed conversions as long as the spec isn't too long. |
| 17:58 | <mounir> | TabAtkins: the editors just picked respec |
| 17:58 | <mounir> | I doubt they will be willing to switch to bikeshed |
| 17:58 | <TabAtkins> | mounir: You didn't answer my question. ^_^ |
| 17:58 | <mounir> | TabAtkins: presentation api |
| 17:58 | <TabAtkins> | kk, thx |
| 18:02 | <webzen> | hi |
| 18:02 | <webzen> | es6 module question please http://laravel.io/bin/321N2 |
| 18:44 | <webzen> | es6 help please ? http://laravel.io/bin/d9L1w |
| 18:56 | <caitp> | i don't understand the question |
| 22:01 | <gsnedders> | oh blargh, test generation order in html5lib in non-deterministic, and because expected values depend on node id which for generators is just iteration number… ;_; |
| 22:17 | <roc> | hmm |
| 22:17 | <roc> | Chrome really doesn't support 'background-image' on <img>? |
| 22:41 | <Yay295> | Are JS events like window.onload considered part of the HTML standard? |
| 22:54 | <annevk> | Yay295: yes |
| 22:54 | <annevk> | Yay295: though onload is an event handler, load is the event |
| 23:03 | <Yay295> | annevk: thanks |