| 06:15 | <sscollege> | Hi This is from SS COllege Baran |
| 06:16 | <sscollege> | can you provide me some resources for HTML5 Canvas tools |
| 06:19 | <sscollege_> | Hi |
| 07:03 | <annevk> | yhirano_: did you see https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/pull/200#discussion-diff-51456507? |
| 07:03 | <annevk> | yhirano_: hoping to get wanderview to look at that too today |
| 07:04 | <annevk> | yhirano_: seems other than that we should be able to land this |
| 10:26 | <ritsyy> | the https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/webappapis.html#handler-onreadystatechange "readystatechange" event seems not be supported on Documents http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=3870 |
| 11:25 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: FYI https://twitter.com/schammy/status/696488094317486080 (though given his negativity, not sure if you want to try to bother to find out what he's raging about; they’re might not be a constructive conversation to be had with him) |
| 11:26 | <MikeSmith> | oofs |
| 11:26 | <MikeSmith> | *there might not be |
| 11:27 | <MikeSmith> | I somehow got infected with the same there/they’re misspelling bug that tobie had the other day |
| 11:35 | <MikeSmith> | interesting "Oslo Børs and The Financial Supervisory Authority of Norway have decided to suspend the shares (and derivatives) in Opera Software ASA in anticipation of an announcement from the company." http://www.newsweb.no/newsweb/search.do?messageId=394295 |
| 11:35 | <MikeSmith> | (by way of Anssi https://twitter.com/anssik/status/696655364176089088) |
| 11:49 | <Ms2ger> | > Browser vendors should start their own consortium & tell the @W3C to piss off. |
| 11:49 | <Ms2ger> | Lol |
| 11:52 | <jgraham> | I know, imagine that |
| 11:56 | <annevk> | Where is that from? |
| 11:56 | <Ms2ger> | https://twitter.com/schammy/status/696488094317486080 |
| 11:58 | <annevk> | ritsyy: that test only tests window and the root element, no? |
| 13:35 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, is an "environment settings object" 1:1 to a global object? |
| 13:45 | <annevk> | Should be, but check with Domenic |
| 13:46 | <Ms2ger> | Domenic, checking in :) |
| 13:55 | Ms2ger | tries to figure out how window.top's spec works |
| 13:56 | <Ms2ger> | The top IDL attribute on the Window object of a Document in a browsing context b... |
| 14:18 | <wanderview> | annevk: yhirano_: so, I suck at reading html diffs... where does it normatively require a single chunk in the stream? all I see is it says to enqueue a UInt8Array |
| 14:19 | <annevk> | wanderview: for all of the contents of the blob |
| 14:20 | <beverloo> | annevk, notifications.spec.whatwg.org doesn't reflect the latest commit yet |
| 14:20 | <wanderview> | annevk: oh... for the blob case |
| 14:20 | <wanderview> | yes, that seems crazy |
| 14:21 | <wanderview> | I'll comment |
| 14:21 | <annevk> | beverloo: weird, fixed manually |
| 14:21 | <beverloo> | ta |
| 14:22 | <annevk> | wanderview: not yhirano_'s fault btw, it was already phrased as such, but now it would become observable |
| 14:52 | <wanderview> | annevk: a flash <object> in a page generating network requests to load a video should go through the controlling service worker fetch event, right? |
| 15:01 | <annevk> | wanderview: I think Chrome doesn't do this |
| 15:02 | <annevk> | wanderview: in theory, this depends on how the plugin is defined to work |
| 15:02 | <wanderview> | JakeA: do you know what chrome does here? ^^^ |
| 15:03 | <JakeA> | wanderview: we skip <object> requests and all plugin requests |
| 15:03 | <wanderview> | this isn't spec'd yet, though... right? |
| 15:03 | <wanderview> | or did I miss it |
| 15:04 | <JakeA> | hm, yeah, I guess plugin behaviour isn't spec'd. It should be at least a note. |
| 15:04 | <annevk> | We might have it specified that if destination is unknown, the service worker is not invoked |
| 15:04 | <wanderview> | I mean, should <object> set the skip-service-worker flag? |
| 15:04 | <JakeA> | wanderview: that's already spec'd |
| 15:04 | <annevk> | wanderview: I think that probably follows from <object> setting destination to "unknown" |
| 15:05 | <wanderview> | JakeA: annevk: is it in html spec or fetch spec that sets the flag for unknown destination? |
| 15:06 | <JakeA> | hmm, I can't find it, maybe it was missed when the html spec was updated for fetch? |
| 15:06 | <JakeA> | wanderview: https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#potential-navigation-or-subresource-request is defined, but there's no reference |
| 15:07 | <wanderview> | yea, I saw that |
| 15:07 | <JakeA> | But we should also have a note explaining that additional requests triggered by <object>/<embed> should skip sw |
| 15:08 | <annevk> | wanderview: I think service workers uses that |
| 15:08 | <annevk> | wanderview: or that was the plan anyway |
| 15:08 | <wanderview> | ah, there is a note in the service worker spec |
| 16:26 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: annevk: yep, global <-> environment settings object |
| 16:26 | <annevk> | Domenic: jungkee thought for some reason that we changed the setup btw and let an environment settings object survive navigation |
| 16:26 | <annevk> | Domenic: but I haven't checked in with him recently... |
| 16:27 | <annevk> | I wish he'd hang out here more often |
| 16:27 | <Ms2ger> | Okay |
| 16:27 | <Domenic> | annevk: I could believe that service workers have exotic desires here but I don't think that's quite the right way to do whatever they need... |
| 16:27 | Ms2ger | goes back to looking at how he got here |
| 16:27 | <annevk> | I think they want the same, he thought we somehow changed the setup |
| 16:29 | <Ms2ger> | So is the "responsible document" of a "browsing context environment settings object" the same thing as getting window.document? |
| 16:30 | <Ms2ger> | Domenic, there also is no Window.prototype.frameElement :) |
| 16:30 | Domenic | looks harder at what's going on |
| 16:30 | <Domenic> | oh right |
| 16:30 | <Domenic> | because window |
| 16:30 | <Ms2ger> | Yep |
| 16:31 | <Ms2ger> | But will fix to use 'window' |
| 16:32 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: "The document IDL attribute must return the Window object's newest Document object." hmmm |
| 16:32 | <Ms2ger> | Yeah, nothing is particularly well-defined here |
| 16:32 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: yes, they are the same, per https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#script-settings-for-browsing-contexts:responsible-document |
| 16:33 | <Ms2ger> | I got confused about what "currently" means there |
| 16:33 | <Ms2ger> | Not sure if I have better wording |
| 16:34 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: it makes sense to update it to say newest |
| 16:34 | <Domenic> | to be consistent |
| 16:35 | <Domenic> | if you wanted to get fancy you could make one of them a dfn and the other link to it |
| 16:36 | <Ms2ger> | I think we'd want Window to have a Document field that's updated when loading the initial document, and then this should all fall out, hopefully |
| 16:37 | <Ms2ger> | Fixed the 'window' |
| 16:38 | <annevk> | Domenic: specially for you: https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/652 |
| 16:38 | <Domenic> | Agreed |
| 16:38 | <Domenic> | annevk: woohoo |
| 16:38 | <Ms2ger> | And data-x pushes this over 100 columns, yay |
| 16:40 | <Ms2ger> | Domenic, done |
| 16:40 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: good stuff as always, thanks |
| 16:41 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, nice |
| 16:45 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, it might make sense to parse relative to either an element or a settings object |
| 16:47 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: yeah, maybe |
| 16:48 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: it's really against a document mostly, but I left the current setup since that would be too many changes and if we ever want to get baseURI back to do element-level things we'd have to revert all the things |
| 16:48 | <Ms2ger> | I think the only callers that don't pass either of those are WebSocket and appcache, and those can use the url parser directly |
| 16:49 | <annevk> | I really wish AppCache fate was a little clearer |
| 16:50 | <annevk> | Because if we need to keep it, a lot of it needs to move to Fetch |
| 16:54 | <Ms2ger> | Domenic, glad I don't have to do the auditing :) |
| 16:54 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: haha it's not so bad... |
| 16:55 | <Domenic> | annevk: haven't we pretty conclusively moved baseURI to document? |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | Domenic: well baseURI exists everywhere still, but it looks to the document |
| 16:55 | <Domenic> | annevk: right yeah that's what I meant |
| 16:56 | <Domenic> | annevk: I don't see us reverting that anytime soon |
| 16:56 | <annevk> | yeah, we might never I suppose |
| 16:57 | <annevk> | Another question here is whether it's worth changing all the callers to say relative to element's node document |
| 16:57 | <Domenic> | annevk: I would find that clearer |
| 16:58 | <annevk> | Domenic: there's about 70 callsites though and a lot of rewrapping :-/ |
| 16:58 | <annevk> | Perhaps the bigger problem is that TextWrangler is just not very quick at making changes to such a large document |
| 16:59 | <Domenic> | sublime is pretty good |
| 16:59 | <Domenic> | it would be nice if we had an autoformat tool though |
| 17:06 | <annevk> | Domenic: I'll give Sublime a try |
| 17:06 | <annevk> | Domenic: https://www.sublimetext.com/ I take it? |
| 17:06 | <Domenic> | annevk: yep |
| 17:08 | <annevk> | Domenic: that does seem much quicker |
| 17:08 | <annevk> | Domenic: I should have checked out alternatives sooner I guess |
| 17:09 | <annevk> | 😟 |
| 17:49 | <ritsyy> | Ms2ger: this one is resolved now https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28925 right? |
| 17:50 | <Ms2ger> | Doesn't seem like it is? |
| 17:52 | <ritsyy> | Ms2ger: okay then i got confused with your comment sorry, is this one you pointed "If there is a hyperlink suffix, append it to URL." |
| 17:52 | <annevk> | The other tricky thing with that issue is what if the original URL specifies a fragment |
| 17:52 | <annevk> | so maybe it's not quite a "good first bug" |
| 17:53 | <Ms2ger> | I think existing browsers do indeed do the weird thing there |
| 17:53 | <Ms2ger> | At least Gecko does |
| 17:54 | <Ms2ger> | ritsyy, yeah, and at that point (step 7), URL is a "URL record", as the URL spec calls it |
| 17:54 | <ritsyy> | annevk: oh okay, then it's something i didn't figured out |
| 17:54 | <Ms2ger> | Oh wait, no |
| 17:55 | <Ms2ger> | I guess technically it's correct, because nobody really knows what the argument to "navigate" is |
| 17:56 | <annevk> | well, we sorta know, but refactoring that is hard |
| 17:56 | <annevk> | but maybe with Domenic's Sublime Text it's a little less daunting |
| 17:57 | <annevk> | but I shouldn't over promise since there's a bunch of things needing to be done and there's only finite time |
| 17:58 | <ritsyy> | Ms2ger: yes it's not clear about the argument "navigate" here, or it is not to me(i think) |
| 17:59 | <Domenic> | annevk: called away to lunch in the middle of reviewing, will be back soon |
| 18:05 | <annevk> | Domenic: no worries, I'm about to stop for 13-14h |
| 18:06 | <annevk> | Domenic: though if you're done by then that'll greatly increase the chances of me working on fixing the issues tomorrow 😊 |
| 18:10 | <Domenic> | Yeah just wanted to make sure you didn't fix the things I pointed out thinking then it was ready to merge :) |
| 18:15 | <annevk> | Domenic: hmm so I didn't exactly get through the whole browsing context thing, but generally that seems like a solid improvement |
| 18:15 | <annevk> | Domenic: so a soft LGTM without looking from me, gotta go |
| 18:33 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: Thanks, I've gone in and commented a bit in the HN thread at least. No reason to engage douchebags on Twitter who are just venting their ignorance. |
| 18:39 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: nm, couldn't resist, still replied to his implicit statement that the spec was created by "the W3C" rather than browser vendors. ^_^ |
| 19:22 | <roc> | too many people think that the W3C is a thing that does work |
| 19:23 | <TabAtkins> | To be fair, *some* WGs *are* dominated by "non-implementing" people; referring to them as "the W3C" isn't *too* inaccurate, if you're assuming the divide is between "browsers" and "W3C". |
| 22:59 | <smaug____> | annevk: does fullscreen spec define somewhere that if an element is removed from document, cancel fullscreen mode? |
| 23:00 | <smaug____> | ah, nm, I think I found it |
| 23:01 | <smaug____> | but I'm not sure about the case when a node hasn't entered fullscreen mode yet |
| 23:07 | <smaug____> | annevk: so, if one requests fullscreen, and then immediately after that moves the element to some other document, what should happen |
| 23:13 | <Domenic> | Can someone with a Mac test what `window.console = "foo"; foo;`returns in Safari? robertkowalski terinjokes |
| 23:13 | <terinjokes> | trying |
| 23:14 | <terinjokes> | Domenic: https://twitter.com/terinjokes/status/696834797742600193 |
| 23:14 | <Domenic> | hmm it's a value descriptor in Chrome, that's special.... |
| 23:15 | <Domenic> | terinjokes: ok cool |
| 23:16 | <Domenic> | terinjokes: Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(window, "console") ? in a fresh window, not one that's been foo-ed. |
| 23:16 | <terinjokes> | don't have my usual screenshot utility setup on this computer yet, apologies for using twitter in the meantime :P |
| 23:16 | <Domenic> | you can also just tell me the answer :P |
| 23:17 | <terinjokes> | Domenic: {value: Console, writable: true, enumerable: false, configurable: true} |
| 23:17 | <Domenic> | aweeeesome..... |
| 23:18 | <terinjokes> | Safari 9.0.3, if the UI wasn't a giveaway |
| 23:18 | <MikeSmith> | I think using twitter for screenshot sharing is kind of ingenious actually. Never thought of doing that before. |
| 23:18 | <terinjokes> | MikeSmith: not all my screenshots are exactly meant for the entire world, and I really like to "own" where my data lives. :) |
| 23:19 | <MikeSmith> | If you love something, set it free |
| 23:20 | <MikeSmith> | anyway yeah I know what you mean |
| 23:20 | <MikeSmith> | myself I actually just have a gist where I dump stuff |
| 23:20 | <MikeSmith> | https://gist.github.com/sideshowbarker/8284404 |
| 23:20 | <MikeSmith> | including images |
| 23:21 | <terinjokes> | i've been trying to move off of using gist except for actual code snippets |
| 23:21 | <gsnedders> | Hixie_: of *course* you'd have the SBB logo as your flair on /r/trains. I shouldn't even be surprised. |
| 23:46 | <smaug____> | Domenic: curious, why attribute any console? Why not [Replaceable] readonly attribute Console console; ? |
| 23:50 | <tantek> | does anyone here have any experience with anything OASIS? like working with, developing specs with, using specs from, implementing specs from etc.? https://www.oasis-open.org/ |