| 00:00 | <Domenic> | smaug____: I didn't know about Replaceable! I'll go look it up. |
| 00:02 | <Domenic> | smaug____: looks like that's what Gecko does, cool. Let's do that instead |
| 00:08 | <smaug____> | Domenic: I assume that part of Gecko's webidl was reviewed by bz, so it probably should be sane |
| 00:09 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: I have experience with OASIS, years ago, working on the technical committee that created RelaxNG and also on the DocBook technical committee |
| 00:29 | <robertkowalski> | Domenic: sure |
| 00:29 | <robertkowalski> | Domenic: still a topic? sorry just reading through the highlights and using lastlog |
| 00:30 | <robertkowalski> | ah cool! found the conversation :) |
| 04:40 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: another (nicer) FYI (in case you’re not already following the ServiceWorker repo) https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/489#issuecomment-181654310 |
| 05:44 | <MikeSmith> | https://github.com/cure53/DOMPurify looks interesting |
| 07:09 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: Thanks, I wasn't following it. |
| 08:31 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: about HTML Imports, I realize it seems like there’s no agreement to move ahead with it, but it’s worth remembering that it's actually one of the highest-votec “wants” at the Edge uservoice thing https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/257854-microsoft-edge-developer/filters/top |
| 08:32 | <MikeSmith> | of course that doesn’t really mean that web devs necessarily really want HTML Imports as currently specced |
| 08:32 | <MikeSmith> | but it seems clear they still really want *something* |
| 08:32 | <annevk> | The question is whether they still want it a decade from now |
| 08:33 | <MikeSmith> | dunno |
| 08:33 | <MikeSmith> | but also note that the Edge team has HTML Imports marked as ON THE BACKLOG https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/257854-microsoft-edge-developer/suggestions/6261318-html-imports |
| 08:35 | <MikeSmith> | I think it’s also interesting that 3 of the 5 top-voted wants there are Web Components things |
| 08:35 | annevk | unsubscribes from all mailing lists that enable GitHub mirroring |
| 08:36 | <annevk> | public-media-capture did this experiment, asked for feedback, I tried to give feedback, but I didn't even get a reply on that |
| 08:36 | <annevk> | and now public-geolocation is doing the same thing... |
| 08:48 | <Ms2ger> | bterlson, so will [1, 2, 3].flatMap(i => [["a", i], ["b", -i]]) == ["a", 1, ..., "b", -3] or [["a", 1], ..., ["b", -3]]? |
| 09:47 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: the other problem with mirroring of GitHub issues to a mailing list is pretty much just like the problem with old-fashioned mailing-list cross-posting, in that if somebody replies with a substantive comment on the mailing list, the people following the issue in GitHub will never see that comment |
| 09:48 | <MikeSmith> | tobie remarked about this somewhere recently |
| 09:48 | <annevk> | Make ssense, that definitely seems to happen |
| 09:49 | <annevk> | Sublime Text not being able to highlight HTML without tweaks is funny |
| 09:49 | <annevk> | Definitely will take some getting used to |
| 09:51 | <MikeSmith> | https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Feb/0030.html tobie speaks |
| 10:44 | Ms2ger | curses |
| 10:45 | <Ms2ger> | Can we find someone to fix UIEvents already? |
| 10:46 | <annevk> | In a W3C meeting this is the moment where the chair laughs and you're it and then nothing happens |
| 10:47 | <annevk> | But I also, we shouldn't think of them as a unit. There's hit testing on top of which mouse events, various APIs, touch events, pointer events, and :hover flow. And there's keyboard events which are totally separate. Scroll events are somewhat coupled with layout and hit testing, etc. |
| 10:49 | <Ms2ger> | This probably would not be a good Outreachy project :) |
| 11:22 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I just found that in the HTML standard, both application/x-www-form-urlencoded and multipart/form-data can use the utf-16 encoder |
| 11:22 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I have no idea whether that is actually implemented that way though |
| 11:23 | <hsivonen> | annevk: whoa. How? |
| 11:23 | <annevk> | hsivonen: actually I'm wrong |
| 11:24 | <hsivonen> | annevk: ok. :-) |
| 11:24 | <annevk> | hsivonen: "pick an encoding for a form" has a flag that is always unset although not each caller says that explicitly, only text/plain does |
| 11:24 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I will clarify that to make it less ambiguous by removing the flag |
| 11:32 | <hsivonen> | annevk: thanks |
| 12:20 | <cyberixae> | Is the URL standard going to cover handling of relative URLs for use in internal links? |
| 12:24 | <cyberixae> | I wish to use the URL standard instead of doing '/some_api/' + some_id |
| 12:24 | <cyberixae> | Just to be sure some_id gets encoded appropriately |
| 12:40 | <annevk> | cyberixae: you could create a fictional base URL and then set and extract the path |
| 12:44 | <cyberixae> | Correct me if I am wrong but I believe reading the path would give it to me without URL encoding, so I would then need to serialize the URL and invent a parser to extract the relevant part from the serialized URL. |
| 12:45 | <cyberixae> | So basically I need url.getRelativeTo(url2) and this is not part of the URL standard |
| 12:46 | <cyberixae> | So I need to implement this myself even if I use a fictional base URL |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | cyberixae: that sounds incorrect |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | cyberixae: e.g. if you set url.pathname to † or some such it will definitely percent-encode that |
| 12:51 | <cyberixae> | I see |
| 12:56 | <annevk> | hsivonen: have we changed the HTML parser in implementation to the point where determining the encoding is deterministic? |
| 12:56 | <annevk> | hsivonen: the specification still pretends it can change |
| 13:00 | <hsivonen> | annevk: IIRC, it's deterministic in Gecko |
| 13:01 | <hsivonen> | annevk: but Gecko can reload if it finds a late <meta> |
| 13:02 | <annevk> | ok |
| 13:02 | <hsivonen> | annevk: I'm not aware of the late meta reload being necessary for a successful browser |
| 13:02 | <hsivonen> | annevk: IIRC, Safari doesn't do that |
| 13:02 | <hsivonen> | annevk: IIRC, Chrome, neither |
| 13:02 | <hsivonen> | annevk: but I haven't checked in a long time |
| 13:03 | <hsivonen> | annevk: IIRC, our lack of a timeout for scanning the 1024 bytes has confused a couple of Web authors |
| 13:03 | <hsivonen> | annevk: but we've still gone with determinism over timeouts |
| 13:03 | <annevk> | I like it, I'd like to change the specification to require that |
| 13:04 | <annevk> | But maybe I'll first change it to use the decode algorithm from Encoding rather than the custom setup it has now |
| 13:10 | <hsivonen> | (aside: after writing some trivial code that calls the encoding-rs API, I figured I want to [optionally] bake BOM sniffing directly into the behavior of encoding-rs's Decoder objects) |
| 13:11 | <hsivonen> | (aside aside: luckily the Web doesn't sniff for GB18030 BOM even though such a thing could logically exist) |
| 13:12 | <hsivonen> | hmm. maybe I should shut up and not give anyone ideas about that |
| 13:20 | <annevk> | I think I did test for that once |
| 14:24 | <annevk> | Domenic: thanks again for recommending Sublime Text, much much much faster |
| 14:24 | <annevk> | Domenic: bit of a pain to learn the new configuration of all things, but well worth it thus far |
| 14:45 | <Domenic> | \o/ |
| 14:46 | <jgraham> | By Friday annevk will refuse to use anything other than straight-up vi |
| 14:48 | <wanderview> | annevk: what were you using before sublime? |
| 14:48 | <Ms2ger> | nano ain't so bad... |
| 14:54 | <zcorpan> | https://whatwg.org/mailing-list#commits needs updating... |
| 14:54 | <zcorpan> | Hixie_: ^ |
| 15:09 | <jgraham> | mkwst: Do we already have tests for the secure contexts spec? |
| 15:22 | <annevk> | wanderview: TextWrangler |
| 15:22 | <wanderview> | interesting |
| 15:22 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: I use nano over ssh mostly, although maybe I should learn the terminal to open Sublime Text... like I taught git |
| 15:23 | <annevk> | wanderview: it was pretty much perfect until I had to regularly edit a 100k-line document |
| 15:23 | <jgraham> | nano is properly horrible |
| 15:23 | <jgraham> | By which I mean "really upsets my emacs-fingers" |
| 15:59 | <zcorpan> | could https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/626#issuecomment-181370157 be a symptom of switching to https? |
| 16:02 | <TabAtkins> | Ms2ger: The second ([["a", 1], ..., ["b", -3]]). Your flatMap callback has to return an array, which is merged into the result; the *contents* of the array are left as they are. |
| 16:07 | <annevk> | I am again surprised how few folks complained thus far about the two application/x-www-form-urlencoded algorithms and their divergence |
| 16:14 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: for URL bikeshed still cannot distinguish between encode and encoding? |
| 16:14 | <TabAtkins> | annevk: It's the problem that I fixed in the wrong way a few weeks back, and need to fix properly now. |
| 16:15 | <annevk> | I see |
| 16:15 | <TabAtkins> | Bikeshed's too eager to "correct" your term into all its variations, and needs to do so only when the exact term fails. |
| 16:16 | <TabAtkins> | (I "fixed" it by doing so only when the exact term has zero results, but that breaks if the exact term has a result that won't be chosen, like an unexported term, and you need the variants to get a correct link. So I had to revert.) |
| 16:16 | <TabAtkins> | (It's not hard to fix, I just couldn't spend time on it last month due to spec-hacking with fantasai the entire time. But February is Bikeshed Month.) |
| 16:17 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: I also found that several WHATWG standards are still not imported |
| 16:17 | <TabAtkins> | I'll fix that this morning. |
| 16:17 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: I guess I should convert more to bikeshed at some point |
| 16:17 | <TabAtkins> | I presume https://spec.whatwg.org/ is a fully updated list of specs, so I can just check which are Bikeshedded? |
| 16:18 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: https://resources.whatwg.org/biblio.json is better |
| 16:18 | <TabAtkins> | kk |
| 16:18 | <annevk> | I don't think Hixie_ updated spec.whatwg.org with the latest stuff yet |
| 16:18 | <annevk> | Interesting how Firefox has a native JSON view these days |
| 16:41 | <annevk> | hsivonen: so there was actually a comment in the HTML standard to the effect that text/plain would support ASCII-incompatible encodings (meaning utf-16), but implementations don't support that so I think we're all good |
| 16:48 | <bterlson> | Ms2ger: the former, flatten recursively flattens, flatMap is like map().flatten() |
| 16:49 | <Ms2ger> | TabAtkins, ha |
| 16:58 | <hsivonen> | annevk: having UTF-16 encode just for text/plain submissions would be very sad |
| 16:58 | <hsivonen> | so yay for implementations not supporting |
| 17:01 | <TabAtkins> | Ms2ger: Did you mean "ta"? Or was my answer funny for reasons that aren't clear from context? |
| 17:02 | <Ms2ger> | TabAtkins, the fact that the two of you gave opposite answers |
| 17:02 | <TabAtkins> | Does... does he know what flatmap does. |
| 17:03 | <TabAtkins> | Unless you're talking about a jank-ass "just flatten everything lol who cares" version of flatMap, it's a .map() followed by *one* level of flattening. |
| 17:03 | <TabAtkins> | (Or the algebraic equivalent of such.) |
| 17:04 | <annevk> | Where is this flatMap thingie defined? |
| 17:04 | <TabAtkins> | Haskell/Scala/everything that uses monads in some way. |
| 17:04 | <annevk> | Yeah, I'm vaguely familiar with that thanks to you, but I wonder what the context was for the question |
| 17:05 | <Ms2ger> | bterlson wrote a spec that was mentioned on twitter |
| 17:05 | <Ms2ger> | I agree that TabAtkins's answer makes sense, but I don't think it agrees with the spec |
| 17:05 | Ms2ger | poofs |
| 17:05 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, I was wondering why I didn't see a prelude to your question in IRC. ^_^ |
| 17:05 | <TabAtkins> | I mean, the Promise spec settled on a "lol just flatten everything nothing matters" version of near-monadic behavior. |
| 17:06 | <TabAtkins> | But that's no reason to poison the well for everyone else. |
| 17:06 | <TabAtkins> | (And anyway, it uses .then() for its near-monad operation, not .flatMap(). Some behavior differences can thus be allowed.) |
| 17:13 | <bterlson> | Ms2ger: TabAtkins: I think not flattening nested arrays for flatMap is a good idea. Just didn't have time to do it last night |
| 17:14 | <bterlson> | I want flatten to take a parameter that says how many levels to flatten, once I have that flatMap can easily reuse the same machinery! |
| 17:37 | <TabAtkins> | bterlson: Unless you're planning something really off-beat for flatMap, it's not just a good idea, it's a requirement. ^_^ |
| 17:38 | <TabAtkins> | Is this meant solely for arrays, or are you planning to propose it generically? |
| 17:39 | <TabAtkins> | (If it's just for arrays, I'd rather not squat on a well-accepted name for the monad action unless it's going to act like the monad action.) |
| 18:25 | <Domenic> | annevk: how can a blob URL be relative? |
| 18:25 | <bterlson> | TabAtkins, just for arrays considering it's on Array.prototype. |
| 18:25 | <TabAtkins> | Okay. (I don't follow you on Twitter and haven't seen the spec.) |
| 18:26 | <TabAtkins> | But yeah, let's get flatMap (single level flattening) into Array.prototype, then we propose making it generic via double-dispatch. ^_^ |
| 18:26 | <Domenic> | Everyone should follow bterlson on twitter |
| 18:27 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, looks legit. Followed. ^_^ |
| 18:29 | <jsbell> | I'll follow anyone that tweets about -0. |
| 18:31 | <TabAtkins> | That was, in fact, the tweet that convinced me. |
| 18:32 | <TabAtkins> | On that note, what's the context of "A use strict directive in a function whose outer context is already strict is not a no-op! Such functions cannot use default or rest params." - "use strict" disables those features??? |
| 18:32 | <TabAtkins> | Oh, I read replies. nm |
| 18:32 | <bterlson> | jsbell: I loved that tweet too, but oddly it got few impressions. People generally don't share our love of -0 arcana. :-P |