| 02:35 | <bterlson> | TabAtkins: your wish is my command: http://bterlson.github.io/proposal-flatMap/ flatmap only flattens one level. |
| 03:30 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: is that solely a convenience thing? |
| 03:30 | <MikeSmith> | I guess I shold actually take time to read it |
| 03:32 | <MikeSmith> | oofs meant that question more for bterlson anyway |
| 03:41 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: "flatmap" is a common name for the monad operation (also known as "bind" or "chain"). It would be annoying if [].flatMap() didn't act like a flatmap "should", and the monad operation merges a single level. |
| 03:41 | <TabAtkins> | Or are you asking if flatmap itself is a convenience thing? |
| 03:41 | <MikeSmith> | yeah the latter |
| 03:42 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, no, it's useful stuff. map is great when you're gonna process an array into a result, transforming each input into a single output, but it doesn't let you "drop" any values or insert multiple values into the result. |
| 03:43 | <TabAtkins> | flatmap does - your callback has to return an array, and it merges the values into the result. |
| 03:43 | <TabAtkins> | So if you want to skip something, just return []. If you want to add two values to the output, return [a,b]. etc. |
| 03:44 | <MikeSmith> | OK yeah that’s pretty nice |
| 03:45 | <MikeSmith> | my knowledge these days is way out of date |
| 03:45 | <MikeSmith> | as far as what’s going into the language and what the needs are |
| 03:46 | <MikeSmith> | and assumign this is actually about EcmaScript (since it was bterlson that mentioned it) |
| 03:46 | <TabAtkins> | yeah |
| 03:47 | <MikeSmith> | I found it a lot of work to even try to get a solid understanding of all of ES 5.1 back in the day |
| 03:47 | <TabAtkins> | bterlson: I can't really read ES spec-ese, but from the abstract it sounds like returning a non-array from the callback would be okay? |
| 03:49 | <bterlson> | TabAtkins: yep, same as array of length 1 |
| 03:52 | <TabAtkins> | Hm, that feels error-prone. Easy to not understand what flatMap does, and accidentally return an array intending it to be an item in the result (probably accidentally, as the return value of something else). |
| 04:20 | <MikeSmith> | does anybody know offhand if Edge supports navigator.mediaDevices.getUserMedia() yet? |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | that is, the new more recent getUserMedia() that returns a Promise |
| 04:21 | <MikeSmith> | as opposed to the old navigator.getUserMedia(constraints, successCallback, errorCallback) one |
| 05:22 | <annevk> | I like the idea of supporting transfer semantics for more APIs |
| 05:22 | <annevk> | Audio does that today |
| 05:22 | <annevk> | Would be neat for fetch() too |
| 05:56 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: what does “transfer semantics” mean? |
| 05:56 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: detach the passed in buffer |
| 05:57 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: so the browser can reuse the memory block rather than copy it |
| 05:59 | <MikeSmith> | ah OK |
| 06:02 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: btw about fetch() http://stackoverflow.com/questions/35296664/can-fetch-get-object-as-headers in particular the part about “What I am also interested is what the different implementations actually accept right now.” (if you might know) |
| 06:05 | <annevk> | Dunno, but I doubt that is implemented properly since the standard is still vague |
| 06:05 | <annevk> | I should really attempt to fix that |
| 06:06 | <MikeSmith> | yes it sounds like in the current state of things, it’s otherwise potentially somewhat confusing/frustrating for developers |
| 06:48 | <MikeSmith> | so FYI for anybody who hasn’t tried Let’s Encrypt yet: I just ran it from scratch for my sideshowbarker.net and it literally only took me 30 minutes to get it working (including troubleshooting) |
| 06:50 | <MikeSmith> | if I’d understood it just slightly better before running it probably wouldn’t have taken me more than 10 minutes |
| 06:52 | <MikeSmith> | if you just want a cert and don’t care to have it automatically configure your web server as well, it takes just a few minutes to auto-install some dependencies and generate a cert |
| 06:52 | <MikeSmith> | and then you can manually edit your web-server config on your own to point it to the new cert |
| 06:53 | <MikeSmith> | it seems like by default it tries to set up your apache server |
| 06:54 | <MikeSmith> | but I’m running nginx and I guess it doesn’t try to update the nginx config automatically |
| 06:57 | <MikeSmith> | but I already had an (expired) StarCom cert, and had my nginx config already set up to use that, so for me it amounted to just changing the pathnames of the nginx ssl_certificate, ssl_certificate_key, and ssl_trusted_certificate options to point to the letsencrypt .pem files instead of the StarCom ones |
| 07:49 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: not automatically renewing Let's Encrypt seems painful though, since the certificates last three months |
| 07:50 | <hendry> | annevk: some tools like https://caddyserver.com/ automatically renew Let's Encrypt certs IIUC |
| 07:52 | <annevk> | hendry: it's not a problem for me, DreamHost has set this up now |
| 07:52 | <annevk> | hendry: although migration from my current HSTS preload setup is not as easy as I'd like |
| 07:53 | <annevk> | hendry: and I haven't really given it much priority, have had more fun fixing bugs in standards and my current certificates don't expire until September |
| 07:55 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah as hendry mentions there are off-the-shelf 3rd-party things intended to make automating the renewal easier for people who want that |
| 07:55 | <MikeSmith> | I don’t know what letsencrypt themselves don’t provide somethingーat least something for people using Debian |
| 07:56 | <MikeSmith> | but even in the worst case you just manually re-run the setup command once every 2 months or so |
| 07:57 | <MikeSmith> | which literally takes just seconds or a minute or two to run |
| 08:01 | <annevk> | As long as you remember it, I believe that's one of the big problems with HTTPS, folks forgetting about this |
| 08:01 | <annevk> | Seems to happen to large organizations more frequently than you'd think |
| 08:02 | <hendry> | i found the nginx/apache Lets Encrypt modules way too painful. that's why i moving my play things to https://caddyserver.com/ for sanity. |
| 08:09 | <Ms2ger> | Should HTML spec focusin/focusout along with focus/blur? |
| 08:10 | <Ms2ger> | s//the/ |
| 08:55 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: there's a bug on that somewhere |
| 08:55 | <Ms2ger> | Oh good |
| 08:55 | <Ms2ger> | I was just filing another :) |
| 08:56 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25897 |
| 08:56 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: PRs appreciated |
| 08:57 | <Ms2ger> | That'd require me knowing what's going on exactly :) |
| 08:58 | <annevk> | Never too old to learn |
| 08:58 | <Ms2ger> | Hm, but Gecko doesn't support it? |
| 08:59 | <annevk> | I guess not |
| 08:59 | <annevk> | But WebKit probably ends up being the deciding factor for those |
| 09:03 | <roc> | ask Mike Taylor whether it's an issue |
| 09:03 | <Ms2ger> | miketaylr, asking :) |
| 09:04 | <annevk> | So what's a good way to search for multiple words that have arbitrary amounts of whitespace between them in Sublime Text? |
| 12:09 | <JakeA> | https://drafts.csswg.org/css-grid/ is down |
| 12:15 | <jgraham> | As is test.csswg.org/shepherd |
| 12:16 | <jgraham> | (these are probably linked) |
| 12:17 | <jgraham> | (seems to be MySQL that's actually down, and I bet the spec is trying to pull in test data from the db or something) |
| 12:58 | <MikeSmith> | most likely that won’t be fixed til plinss wakes up on the west coast |
| 13:00 | <caitp> | i woke up on the west coast, I could do it |
| 13:00 | <caitp> | maybe not |
| 13:05 | <Domenic> | annevk RegExp search with \s* I believe is how I do it |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | Domenic: how do you start one? |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | Domenic: also, I often have the problem where I find something, want to start correcting, but focus is in the wrong spot, is there an easy way to fix that? |
| 13:13 | <annevk> | A Git question, does rebasing often makes it less likely you'll need to deal with merge conflicts? It seems like the answer should be no, but who knows |
| 13:15 | <Domenic> | annevk: there are checkboxes to the left of the search box |
| 13:15 | <Domenic> | annevk: haven't had the latter problem |
| 13:17 | <annevk> | Domenic: you don't press cmd+g and then the focus is still in the search box? Maybe they fixed that in Sublime Text 3? |
| 13:18 | <Domenic> | annevk: hmm yeah maybe. |
| 13:18 | <Domenic> | ST3 is pretty darn stable, it's like Gmail beta |
| 13:18 | <annevk> | I see, that's what the person who gave me the license key at Mozilla said too |
| 13:19 | <annevk> | Oh well, next week |
| 13:19 | <annevk> | Domenic: btw, we're stuck with the UTF-8 way of casing after all: https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues/32 |
| 13:20 | <annevk> | Domenic: going to fix that now and then I'll align all encoding names mentioned in the HTML standard with the "new canonical way" |
| 13:39 | <jgraham> | annevk: rebasing more often means that the conflicts on average should be smaller and more manageable |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | jgraham: ah, I guess when you rebase it doesn't rebase against each individual commit until it reaches master |
| 13:56 | <smaug____> | https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/668 reminds me. Is the plan to incorporate roc's spec for innerText to HTML spec? |
| 13:58 | <annevk> | smaug____: that or DOM seems reasonable |
| 13:58 | <smaug____> | ah, there is https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/465 |
| 13:58 | <annevk> | smaug____: has it been implemented by other browsers yet? |
| 13:58 | <smaug____> | roc's innerText? no |
| 13:58 | <smaug____> | afaik |
| 13:59 | <smaug____> | Domenic: do you know if blink would be interested in to implement innerText based on roc's spec? |
| 14:00 | <smaug____> | currently innerText is pretty much ad hoc in non-Gecko |
| 14:00 | <Domenic> | smaug____: I can ask around. I'd kind of guess no but that's just a guess. |
| 14:02 | <smaug____> | Domenic: well, if no, could someone write a counter spec ? |
| 14:03 | <Domenic> | smaug____: my guess is based on assuming there's no need to devote engineering resources to changing something that works well enough, so no, throwing more people at it wouldn't be the alternative. |
| 14:06 | <zcorpan> | should i merge https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/669 without fiddling with the commit message? or do we always want PR: in there? (it doesn't need rebasing) |
| 14:06 | <Domenic> | If no rebasing then it should be fine |
| 14:07 | <Domenic> | GitHub will track the link and auto close for us |
| 14:08 | <zcorpan> | ok done |
| 14:09 | <zcorpan> | also: No new notifications. \o/ |
| 14:11 | smaug____ | mumbles something to answer to Domenic, but stays quiet |
| 14:11 | <Domenic> | maybe i shouldn't be guessing before asking around |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | Wow, that took an hour |
| 15:04 | <annevk> | hsivonen: would it be acceptable if "output encoding" was instead "get an output encoding"? |
| 15:05 | <annevk> | hsivonen: takes an encoding, returns that encoding or utf-8 if that encoding was utf-16be, utf16le, or replacement |
| 15:08 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I'll create a PR you can look at |
| 15:11 | annevk | enjoys cleaning up all the things |
| 15:15 | annevk | hopes Domenic still finds time to review while working on his new hobby |
| 15:16 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, glad someone enjoys cleaning things up :) |
| 15:16 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: with my new super fast editor even doing it for HTML is no sweat |
| 15:17 | wanderview | wonders what Domenic's new hobby is... |
| 15:17 | <jgraham> | annevk: OK, not need to go all TV Evangelist on us |
| 15:17 | <jgraham> | *no need |
| 15:18 | <jgraham> | Although to be honest that sounded more like something from QVC |
| 15:18 | <annevk> | jgraham: I'm sure emacs (or was it vim?) is thrice as good |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | QVC? |
| 15:20 | <wanderview> | home shopping channel |
| 15:21 | <annevk> | hehe |
| 15:21 | Ms2ger | sells wanderview a Trusty Cane |
| 15:37 | <hsivonen> | annevk: so the difference is that it's a freestanding algorithm instead of a property of each encodin spec-wise? |
| 15:38 | <hsivonen> | probably won't change anything implementation-wise |
| 15:38 | <annevk> | hsivonen: yeah |
| 15:38 | <annevk> | hsivonen: makes it easier to ignore if you don't do HTML |
| 15:39 | <annevk> | I created a PR for it, also drops the replacement encoder |
| 15:39 | <hsivonen> | annevk: LGTM |
| 15:41 | <annevk> | ta |
| 15:46 | <miketaylr> | Ms2ger: i'm not aware of any big compat issues around focusin/out |
| 15:46 | <miketaylr> | but chrome use counters put it around 1.7% https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/433 (and slowly dropping) |
| 15:46 | <miketaylr> | jquery does ship a polyfill for firefox |
| 15:46 | <miketaylr> | and there's others out there |
| 15:47 | <miketaylr> | but it seems like it's too high for blink to want to remove it, i think |
| 15:49 | <Ms2ger> | Bah |
| 16:05 | <Ms2ger> | http://blog.innerht.ml/cross-origin-css-attacks-revisited-feat-utf-16/ |
| 16:38 | <annevk> | Okay, so Blink and WebKit now match the HTML standard, good for them |
| 16:38 | <annevk> | I wonder why CSP encouraged Blink and WebKit's behavior for so long, despite it contradicting the HTML standard |
| 16:39 | <annevk> | mkwst: ^^ |
| 16:53 | <ritsyy> | what would be the best way to revert the commit(change is done on the master but not pushed till now) |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | ritsyy: git reset --hard origin |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | ritsyy: I believe |
| 16:55 | <MikeSmith> | maybe needs to be origin/master there |
| 16:56 | <annevk> | yeah, that depends on your setup indeed |
| 16:57 | <ritsyy> | annevk: MikeSmith yeah done with git reset --hard origin, thank you |
| 17:23 | <miketaylr> | https://drafts.csswg.org/ seems to be down :( |
| 17:25 | <tantek> | hmm - better alert plinss |
| 17:25 | <tantek> | I'm seeing WARNING: mysqli_connect(): (08004/1040): Too many connections |
| 17:26 | <jgraham> | Yes, it has been like that all day |
| 17:26 | <miketaylr> | oh ok, i'll assume someone has notified the right people because i have to run to lunch |
| 17:26 | <jgraham> | I doubt it |
| 17:36 | <annevk> | Domenic: should have just said platinum, it's a joke with respect to record |
| 17:45 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: are you around? https://github.com/whatwg/mimesniff/pull/2 could use review |
| 17:45 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: not sure I'm the best person, though I could probably do it |
| 19:47 | <annevk> | Domenic: maybe "no-base-URL flag"? |
| 20:31 | <Domenic> | annevk: can-be-base-URL flag? |
| 20:32 | <annevk> | Domenic: instead of non-relative flag |
| 20:32 | <annevk> | Oh sorry |
| 20:32 | <Domenic> | annevk: I guess cannot-be-base-URL flag |
| 20:32 | <annevk> | Yeah, something like that seems feasible |
| 20:33 | <annevk> | Preferably not inverting the meaning since boolean logic is hard |
| 20:33 | <annevk> | I'll figure out what it takes |
| 22:55 | <Domenic> | SimonSapin: do you not have push for web-platform-tests? |
| 23:00 | <SimonSapin> | Domenic: I don’t know |
| 23:00 | <Domenic> | SimonSapin: I guess I'm responsible for merging then, OK |
| 23:00 | <Domenic> | I kept saying "LGTM with one thing" hoping you would merge after fixing the one thing :) |
| 23:00 | <SimonSapin> | ah, I see :) |
| 23:01 | <SimonSapin> | ERROR: Permission to w3c/web-platform-tests.git denied to SimonSapin. |