| 15:53 | <littledan> | You've asserted that this is the convention, and follow it in the proposal repo, but I still think of Stage 0 as not really a stage with criteria. When people refer to Stage 0, I think of it as a semi-joke, just a statement of it not being at a stage in committee. It can still be useful to link to those in the proposals repo, sometimes, and I'm fine with applying those criteria for this list. |
| 15:54 | <littledan> | in general, I would like to reduce the places where we assert authority of the committee. Of course you need committee consensus to get to any real stage, including Stage 1, but I don't like it if people in the external parts of the community see something like "finding a champion so it can become stage 0" as some big important barrier/goal. |
| 18:12 | <ljharb> | what’s the point of having a category with no entrance criteria tho? my breakfast is stage 0. |
| 18:19 | <Andreu Botella> | I see stage 0 as the set-theoretical complement of stages 1-4 |
| 18:59 | <littledan> | the broader domain is, "TC39 proposals", so breakfast is not included :) |
| 19:02 | <Andreu Botella> | I don't care if a rock is Stage 0 tbh /j |
| 19:03 | <ljharb> | i guess what i mean is, if we really don't care that literally anything is stage 0, why even have that stage in the process doc |
| 19:03 | <Chris de Almeida> | gotta call it something, no? |
| 19:10 | <Chris de Almeida> | A young developer approached the delegate and asked, "Delegate, what does it mean for a proposal to be at Stage 0?" The delegate replied, "Stage 0 is not a stage. It is the stage before stages, where all stages dissolve." The developer pondered this and said, "Then, is a Stage 0 proposal truly a proposal?" The delegate smiled and poured tea into an empty cup, letting it overflow. "Does the cup hold tea, or is it merely a vessel for possibility?" At this, the developer was enlightened. |
| 19:21 | <shu> | the cup holds tea |
| 19:23 | <Chris de Almeida> | The delegate laughed softly and said, "Ah, but does it? Or does it only seem to, until the tea is poured, spilled, or evaporates? Stage 0 is like the cup before the tea—ready to hold, but not yet holding. What you call 'tea' may one day be water, wine, or emptiness. So tell me, is the cup full, or is it waiting?" The developer replied, "Perhaps it is not the tea, nor the cup, but the act of pouring that matters." |
| 19:24 | <shu> | i want off this llm ride |
| 19:24 | <Chris de Almeida> | fair |
| 22:22 | <littledan> | well, this is backwards: we were using Stage 0 as this informal thing, and then we added it to the stage process to help people understand what we were talking about. we should document it somewhere or other if the term is in use. |