| 02:20 | <Michael Ficarra> | I made this slide for a talk, explaining our process in a simplified way. Sharing in case somebody else would find it useful. |
| 18:31 | <Chris de Almeida> | neat! |
| 18:56 | <TabAtkins> | Could whoever manages the esdiscuss instance lock https://es.discourse.group/t/mixing-fifo-and-lifo-in-javascripts-event-loop/2364, and possibly ban the user? |
| 19:00 | <Michael Ficarra> | have we not put that in our CoC yet? |
| 19:00 | <Michael Ficarra> | we definitely talked about it at length at one point |
| 19:01 | <shu> | who discussed it, the CoC group? |
| 19:02 | <shu> | off the top of my head, i can see translation as an acceptable use case, but i'm not sure if it's really possible to tell |
| 19:03 | <Michael Ficarra> | https://matrixlogs.bakkot.com/TC39_Delegates/2024-02-26#L18 |
| 19:03 | <shu> | we've certainly had people, when called out on using an LLM, say they were doing so because they weren't confident in their command of english |
| 19:03 | <shu> | i personally think those past cases, that reason was an excuse, but hard to tell |
| 19:04 | <Michael Ficarra> | I think there was more offline discussion about it at a plenary as well |
| 19:04 | <Michael Ficarra> | anyway, it would be nice if the CoC committee would make it explicit for us |
| 19:04 | <shu> | i see where kevin's coming from with "i'll feed it through a translator myself", need to think on that |
| 19:05 | <shu> | i've never had a productive technical discussion like that though, where people go back and forth posting in their preferred language |
| 19:06 | <bakkot> | I have but not often |
| 19:06 | <bakkot> | nicolo made a good point on another occasion though that this severely negatively affects search |
| 19:07 | <bakkot> | https://matrixlogs.bakkot.com/TC39_Delegates/2025-03-04#L3 |
| 19:07 | <bakkot> | so I am ok with people using LLMs for translation |
| 19:08 | <bakkot> | but that is not the same as "using an LLM because they aren't confident in their english" - the most common example of the latter thing is that you write a short summary in your language and then ask ChatGPT to write a whole post in English |
| 19:08 | <bakkot> | rather than just doing a translation of what you wrote |
| 19:08 | <bakkot> | and this is a thing I want to discourage |
| 19:08 | <snek> | the rocket ship emojis are just annoying, not actually wasting my time... unlike the content. translation is fine, but authorship has to be human. |
| 19:09 | <snek> | otoh, there are models that are trained specifically for translation, and they don't make you sound like a spam email |
| 19:10 | <bakkot> | chatgpt doesn't make you sound like a spam email if you just ask for translation |
| 19:10 | <Michael Ficarra> | why does chatgpt use emojis in the nerdiest old-person way so often, anyway? |
| 19:10 | <bakkot> | it's perfectly fine at that task |
| 19:10 | <snek> | my previous manager used emojis exactly like that |
| 19:11 | <Michael Ficarra> | were they >50? |
| 19:11 | <snek> | definitely not |
| 19:11 | <Michael Ficarra> | huh, interesting |
| 19:12 | <Michael Ficarra> | I've personally noticed an "emoji divide" with how people of different ages employ them |
| 19:14 | <ptomato> | describe what the "nerdy old person way" is for this nerdy middle-aged person please? |
| 19:17 | <bakkot> | emojis used as punctuation / illustration / tone-markers on sentences which required none of those |
| 19:17 | <Michael Ficarra> | kinda like bullet points or summaries of a line or just in places where they don't make sense |
| 19:17 | <Michael Ficarra> | wow those explanations were scarily similar |
| 19:18 | <Michael Ficarra> | 🧢 https://youtu.be/EUJJiYycsnw?t=75 |
| 19:20 | <ptomato> | 🤠= lying?? that's a new one for me |
| 19:20 | <ptomato> | oh no it was "pretending to be happy" |
| 19:20 | <ptomato> | baseball cap is lying |
| 19:21 | <ptomato> | 🧢 I guess |
| 20:05 | <kriskowal> | no cap |
| 20:45 | <shu> | i thuoght it was a young person thing to use emojis as punctuation |
| 20:45 | <shu> | that's an old person thing? how can that be an old person thing? emojis weren't around when we learned the online communication style |
| 20:48 | <kriskowal> | the old person window shifts by about a year every year. it no longer means wwii vet. it means me. |
| 20:48 | <kriskowal> | and also some people significantly younger than me |
| 20:48 | <jmdyck> | seems to me "the nerdiest old-person way" to use emojis is not at all |
| 20:49 | <kriskowal> | this also wrapped around. there’s a generation that only uses emojis ironically when mocking old people |
| 20:49 | <naugtur> | And now there's another generation younger than them that doesn't care either way |
| 20:49 | <kriskowal> | i assume you have all read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Because_Internet |
| 20:51 | <shu> | i only use emojis when i post to linkedin |
| 20:52 | <shu> | i also like 🥺 and use that regardless of the content |
| 20:53 | <naugtur> | 🫣😅 |
| 20:53 | <shu> | i don't know what that means |
| 20:54 | <naugtur> | These are the two I use a lot and unironically |
| 20:54 | <naugtur> | Seemed to fit |
| 20:55 | <shu> | what is the connotation of 🫣? |
| 20:57 | <naugtur> | Both are indicating that I should be slightly embarrassed by what I've just written but I did it anyway. There's a difference between them I'm struggling to verbalize 😅 |
| 20:57 | <shu> | oh interesting. i would not have guessed that for the first one |
| 20:58 | <shu> | i thought the first one was something like "i'm afraid to confront the thing being said because it's such a car wreck" or something |
| 20:59 | <Chris de Almeida> | https://github.com/tc39/code-of-conduct/issues/62 |
| 20:59 | <Chris de Almeida> | Please add thoughts, comments, suggestions, etc. here |
| 21:05 | <naugtur> | As a non-native speaker - I did ask LLMs to explain fragments of conversation to me but would not trust them to make my arguments for me. On the other hand, I have an anecdote from way before LLMs on how very bad computer aided communication is still valuable from back when I worked at a company doing pre-statistical rule based translation https://github.com/naugtur/naugtur.github.com/blob/master/generator/contents/articles/what-if-were-overestimating-ai-again/index.md#language-is-a-human-thing |
| 21:36 | <ljharb> | i don't think it's a CoC issue, nor does it need to be |
| 23:56 | <TabAtkins> | How exactly does the tc39-transfer/tc39 split work? I'm trying to do something similar (move someone else's personal repo into an org that I'm an admin for). |
| 23:57 | <TabAtkins> | You used to be able to add collaborators as admins of personal repos, but they removed that ability at some point fairly recently. :( |