| 10:05 | <annevk> | yay |
| 10:05 | <Charl> | ok this time the fault was my server, not whatbo |
| 10:05 | <Charl> | not the logbot system |
| 10:06 | <krijnh> | MS still didn't join the WG? |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | nope |
| 10:09 | <krijnh> | Are they going to? |
| 10:10 | <annevk> | well, one of the Microsofties is co-chairing the group |
| 10:11 | <annevk> | I assume Chris is fighting some internal lawyer to get him (and others) in |
| 10:12 | <krijnh> | Hmm |
| 10:16 | <karlUshi> | annevk: ? |
| 10:17 | <annevk> | karlUshi, as logbot for this channel |
| 10:19 | <Charl> | i obviously missed the discussion earlier on |
| 10:19 | <Charl> | but we really need to get a better host for the logbot |
| 10:19 | <karlUshi> | annevk: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2001/sw/logger/ |
| 10:20 | <Charl> | at the moment whatbot is running on a server sitting beneath my desk |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | well, hosting it too |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | if I could host a logbot I would've done so |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | but my host doesn't allow it :( |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | Charl :) |
| 10:21 | <krijnh> | What's needed for it to host it? |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | krijnh, a server that allows IRC connections I suppose |
| 10:21 | <krijnh> | Makes sense ;] |
| 10:21 | <krijnh> | I'll ask my host |
| 10:22 | <Charl> | you see the problem is this |
| 10:22 | <Charl> | one can host it anywhere |
| 10:22 | <Charl> | but you have some funny PHP hack |
| 10:22 | <Charl> | that you need to run on some webserver |
| 10:22 | <Charl> | together with the logs |
| 10:22 | <krijnh> | Ah |
| 10:22 | <karlUshi> | what's wrond with whatbot? |
| 10:22 | <Charl> | in other words, your host needs to have a public static IP address |
| 10:22 | <krijnh> | Charl: we've hacked php for your site as well ;) |
| 10:22 | <karlUshi> | s/wrond/wrong/ |
| 10:23 | <annevk> | karlUshi, unstable |
| 10:23 | <Charl> | krijnh: that original cms i had going was a hack and nothing but a hack :) |
| 10:23 | <krijnh> | Charl: You mean wordpress? :) |
| 10:23 | <krijnh> | With the mysqli hack |
| 10:23 | <Charl> | krijnh: oh no that was before i even installed WP :) |
| 10:24 | <krijnh> | Ah |
| 10:24 | <Charl> | krijnh: now i am pwned because there is an update to the WP DB file |
| 10:24 | <Charl> | so hacking all over agaIN |
| 10:24 | <krijnh> | You're using wp 2 now right? |
| 10:24 | <Charl> | yeah 2.0 still |
| 10:24 | <krijnh> | Which reminds me, I still have to send you a bill |
| 10:24 | <krijnh> | ;) |
| 10:24 | <karlUshi> | why guys you haven't tried chump? |
| 10:25 | <karlUshi> | http://usefulinc.com/chump/ |
| 10:25 | <karlUshi> | example of use |
| 10:25 | <karlUshi> | http://swig.xmlhack.com/ |
| 10:25 | <Charl> | krijnh: cool bill me any time, i'll pay you in south african rands, they're not worth anything in europe anyway :) |
| 10:26 | <krijnh> | Hehe |
| 10:42 | <krijnh> | Charl: How is Fidelis going btw? |
| 10:43 | <karlUshi> | I'm off for today. |
| 10:44 | <Charl> | krijnh: sorry was away from the keyboard quickly |
| 10:44 | <Charl> | krijnh: am busy getting started on a very simple blogging system |
| 10:44 | <Charl> | krijnh: can't stand WP any longer |
| 10:45 | <krijnh> | (Use QMS) |
| 10:45 | krijnh | (n=krijnhoe⊙kxn) has left #whatwg |
| 10:45 | <krijnh> | Whoops |
| 10:54 | annevk | (n=annevk⊙8972) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:55 | <krijnh> | http://blog.whatwg.org/html5lib-09-released#comment-2345 |
| 11:06 | <annevk> | seems like we might get Animated PNG soonish |
| 11:06 | <annevk> | in Mozilla that is |
| 11:06 | <annevk> | otoh, that has been going on for some time now as well... |
| 11:38 | <Lachy> | krijnh, thanks, spam is removed |
| 11:38 | <krijnh> | Np |
| 11:39 | <krijnh> | Lachy: Are you still working on Fidelis? |
| 11:39 | <Lachy> | when I have time |
| 12:05 | Charl | (n=charlvn⊙nmcz) Quit ("Leaving") |
| 12:05 | annevk | wonders if people considered that Hixie works for the company that does Youtube |
| 12:06 | <krijnh> | I hadn't |
| 12:07 | Lachy | wonders if Hixie's actually had a chance to discuss <video> with the people that work on youtube |
| 12:08 | <Hemebond> | <video>? |
| 12:08 | <Lachy> | Hemebond, yes |
| 12:08 | <Hemebond> | Surely there's not to be an element <video>... |
| 12:09 | <annevk> | surely there is |
| 12:09 | <Lachy> | http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#video |
| 12:09 | <Hemebond> | *saigh* |
| 12:09 | <Hemebond> | er |
| 12:09 | <Hemebond> | *sigh* |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | see topic |
| 12:10 | <krijnh> | annevk: I only considered you're working for the company that's already testing with <video> :) |
| 12:10 | <Lachy> | why? |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | s/testing/playing/ |
| 12:10 | <Hemebond> | "Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!" |
| 12:10 | <krijnh> | annevk: Same to me |
| 12:10 | <Hemebond> | That's what I forgot to do. I only hung up my coat. |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | krijnh, fair enough |
| 12:11 | <Lachy> | Hemebond, why don't you like the idea of <video> |
| 12:11 | <Hemebond> | Because it's a step backwards. |
| 12:11 | <Lachy> | how so? |
| 12:11 | <annevk> | Hemebond, you did read the proposal, did you? |
| 12:11 | <Hemebond> | I would have liked to see more generalisation. |
| 12:11 | <Hemebond> | No. |
| 12:11 | <Hemebond> | Wait a second... |
| 12:11 | <Hemebond> | Who are you Anne? |
| 12:12 | <Hemebond> | Not http://annevankesteren.nl/2007/03/public-html ... |
| 12:12 | <Lachy> | <video> offers a specific a API for working with video using script |
| 12:12 | <annevk> | Hemebond, http://www.google.com/search?q=anne |
| 12:12 | <Hemebond> | Heh. It was your latest post that led me here. |
| 12:12 | <annevk> | Hemebond, yes, I wrote that |
| 12:12 | <annevk> | cool |
| 12:12 | <annevk> | welcome |
| 12:13 | <Hemebond> | Thanks. |
| 12:13 | <Lachy> | Hemebond, if you don't like video, you might not like the idea of <audio> either, which is currently being discussed :-) |
| 12:14 | <Hemebond> | Heh. Doesn't appeal to me, no. |
| 12:14 | <krijnh> | I think there's more use for <video> than for <audio> |
| 12:15 | <Lachy> | I think we need <audio> or at least improve the Audio() API |
| 12:15 | <krijnh> | <video role="just-an-audio-wrapper" src="music.mp3"> |
| 12:16 | <Lachy> | there is no role attr in HTML5 |
| 12:16 | <krijnh> | There's kidding in my line though |
| 12:16 | <Lachy> | <audio> would be cool if browsers could provide their own UI or even visualisations |
| 12:16 | <virtuelv> | Hemebond: why exactly don't you like <video>? |
| 12:17 | <Hemebond> | I prefer generalisation. |
| 12:17 | <Hemebond> | <object> |
| 12:18 | <annevk> | why is generalization good? |
| 12:18 | <virtuelv> | Hemebond: besides the API complexity annevk has pointed at, there is one more issue: author simplicity |
| 12:18 | <annevk> | i mean, "I prefer <tag>" |
| 12:18 | <Hemebond> | Heh |
| 12:18 | <annevk> | pretty meaningless |
| 12:19 | <virtuelv> | you can (mostly) use <object> in place of <img> today, and have richer fallbacks, or multiple fallbacks, yet virtually noone uses it |
| 12:19 | <Hemebond> | I do. |
| 12:19 | <Hemebond> | I love object. |
| 12:21 | <annevk> | that's about the only advantage of <object> over <img> |
| 12:21 | <annevk> | and generally you don't need richer fallback so it's not much of a problem |
| 12:22 | <virtuelv> | annevk: my point exactly |
| 12:23 | <Hemebond> | Wasn't the whole point of <object> to get away from the "tag for everything" problem? |
| 12:23 | <Hemebond> | Or "issue"? |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | I think so |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | since then we found out that it doesn't work |
| 12:24 | <Hemebond> | It doesn't? |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | too complex for implementors/authors, too complex to make sophisticated APIs for specialized content |
| 12:25 | <krijnh> | People can still use object of course |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | not really semantic |
| 12:25 | <krijnh> | If they want to use a not-so-open format and a browser plugin |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | yeah, although I think <embed> is prolly more compatible for that |
| 12:25 | <krijnh> | Probably |
| 12:27 | <krijnh> | <object> is for external plugins (basically), <img>, <video> and <audio> are cross platform, cross UA elements |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | <object> is also ok for SVG, and HTML documents although I suppose you might as well use <iframe> |
| 12:29 | <Lachy> | I assume <video> doesn't have to mean native support, does it? Surely whether or not some format is supported natively or with a plugin is just an implementation detail? |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | Lachy, I think that's the plan although not everyone agrees |
| 12:29 | <krijnh> | Hmm, then I don't think <video> makes sense |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | howcome for instance, thinks it should imply native support |
| 12:29 | <krijnh> | Or are the methods just passed on to the plugin? |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | krijnh, why? It's about the API and semantics, not about content |
| 12:30 | <Hemebond> | Couldn't semantics be implied by the content-type? |
| 12:30 | <annevk> | Hemebond, too late imo |
| 12:30 | <Lachy> | as long as the browser can pass it's API calls onto the plugin, there shouldn't be a problem |
| 12:30 | <Hemebond> | Too late? |
| 12:30 | <annevk> | you want the semantics to be clear before fetching data |
| 12:31 | <Hemebond> | What about the type attribute? |
| 12:31 | <Lachy> | though, if the system as a codec for some format, then the browser should just be able to use that and run it natively |
| 12:31 | <krijnh> | I agree |
| 12:31 | <annevk> | Hemebond, that's only relevant when data= isn't set |
| 12:31 | <annevk> | Hemebond, if data= is set it's just ignored |
| 12:31 | <Hemebond> | Oh is it? Hmm, I've always set both. |
| 12:31 | <krijnh> | I think you'll get the same issues as with Real, QuickTime, etc else |
| 12:32 | <Hemebond> | Oh I see. HTML 5 has that. |
| 12:32 | <annevk> | Hemebond, browsers too |
| 12:32 | <annevk> | Hemebond, you're allowed to set both though |
| 12:32 | <Hemebond> | Oh. |
| 12:32 | <annevk> | topic ;) |
| 12:32 | <Lachy> | the major problem I have with making it only native support is that most digital cameras available today only capture in patented formats, so that would make <video> useless to all those who don't know how/want to convert |
| 12:33 | <Hemebond> | Topic? Is there a specific topic I should be keeping to? |
| 12:33 | <annevk> | Hemebond, don't assume things are logical |
| 12:33 | <Lachy> | Hemebond, no. |
| 12:33 | <Hemebond> | Oh I see. |
| 12:33 | <Hemebond> | But I want logiiiiiiic *whine* |
| 12:33 | <Lachy> | converstaions often get chaotic in here, and I often just say random things |
| 12:33 | <krijnh> | Same here :) |
| 12:33 | <krijnh> | And half of what I say makes no sense anyway |
| 12:34 | <Hemebond> | Are you a spec? |
| 12:34 | <krijnh> | Who? |
| 12:34 | <Hemebond> | NVM |
| 12:36 | <Hemebond> | I guess I'll stick to learning XHTML2 |
| 12:36 | <krijnh> | I think the openness of the web is more expressed in <videmus> than in <video> btw :p |
| 12:37 | <annevk> | Hemebond, XHTML2? And use it where? |
| 12:38 | <Hemebond> | I dunno. |
| 12:38 | <Hemebond> | I just like it, is all. |
| 12:38 | <Hemebond> | I could use XSL to tranform it to regular XHTML1.1 |
| 12:39 | <krijnh> | Client side XSL? |
| 12:39 | <mpt> | Esperanto! |
| 12:39 | <Hemebond> | Could do. |
| 12:39 | <krijnh> | Why would you want that? |
| 12:39 | <Hemebond> | *shrug* |
| 12:40 | <Hemebond> | I don't make websites for a living anymore. |
| 12:40 | <Lachy> | what do you do for a living? |
| 12:40 | <krijnh> | Are you going to again? :) |
| 12:41 | <Hemebond> | krijnh: I spend a lot of time reading about it. Playing with it. But then I think of the customers, the incompatibilities, IE, etc... |
| 12:41 | <Hemebond> | And I'm not sure I could be bothered with it. |
| 12:41 | <Hemebond> | Lachy: Network technician. |
| 12:43 | <krijnh> | Hemebond: Then why stick to learning xhtml2? |
| 12:43 | <Hemebond> | I think it's a nice evolution of XHTML |
| 12:44 | <Hemebond> | And HTML in general. |
| 12:44 | <Lachy> | trust us, it's not |
| 12:44 | <Lachy> | it has too many flaws |
| 12:44 | <Hemebond> | It does? |
| 12:44 | <annevk> | So which parts exactly do you like? |
| 12:44 | <Hemebond> | I admit I've only looked at it breifly. |
| 12:45 | <Hemebond> | I like the idea of <section><h> |
| 12:45 | <annevk> | I mean, we tried to incorperate all good ideas into HTML5 |
| 12:45 | <annevk> | That'd be one of those ideas :) |
| 12:45 | <Lachy> | e.g. href on any element: browser vendors have said that's very difficult to implement |
| 12:45 | <krijnh> | :) |
| 12:45 | <Lachy> | same with src="", and many other global attributes |
| 12:46 | <krijnh> | That's the generalisation part Hemebond likes, I think |
| 12:46 | <Lachy> | the spec itself leaves many things totally undefined |
| 12:46 | ROBOd | (n=robod⊙8321) Quit ("http://www.robodesign.ro";) |
| 12:47 | <Lachy> | from an authoring perspective, global attributes look nice on the surface. There was a time when I thought the idea was great, till I looked at the reality of the situation |
| 12:47 | ravenn | (n=ravenn⊙2dina) has left #whatwg |
| 12:48 | <krijnh> | Is there a thread about the alternatives? |
| 12:48 | <krijnh> | Like, not href on every element, but on some? |
| 12:48 | <krijnh> | <img href> |
| 12:49 | <Lachy> | still a problem with backwards compat |
| 12:49 | <krijnh> | True |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | note that <a> is not just href= |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | <a> is quite complex |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | the proposal effectively makes every element that much more complex |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | for not that much benefit (besides the fact that it breaks backwards compatibility) |
| 12:50 | <krijnh> | And every piece of software which checks "links" as well |
| 12:50 | <Lachy> | yes, if href goes on any element, we'd also need target, ping, rel, media ,hreflang and type |
| 12:51 | <annevk> | and the API |
| 12:51 | <annevk> | and we need to define what happens for elements which now have multiple activation behaviors |
| 12:51 | <annevk> | such as <input> |
| 12:51 | <Lachy> | and type="" would clash with other uses of type on other elements |
| 12:51 | <annevk> | i should blog about this too i think |
| 12:52 | <krijnh> | You should :) |
| 12:52 | <Lachy> | I should blog about something too. it's been about a month since I've posted :-) |
| 12:52 | <krijnh> | And say that <a> should just allow block level elements |
| 12:52 | <Lachy> | I even forgot to post on my b'day! |
| 12:52 | <krijnh> | Which solves the problem mostly, I guess |
| 12:52 | <krijnh> | And is backwards compatible |
| 12:53 | Lachy | has a draft post about the problems with Outlook to post soon, plus some more on XBL |
| 12:53 | annevk | wants an impl of XBL |
| 12:54 | <Hemebond> | Mozilla not enough? |
| 12:54 | <krijnh> | Lachy: You were too busy licking Tim ;) |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | it's like a new box of tricks |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | Hemebond, I meant XBL2 |
| 12:54 | <Hemebond> | Ah. |
| 12:54 | <Lachy> | XBL2, Moz only has XBL1 |
| 12:54 | <Lachy> | did someone post a photo of me on timwouldlickti? |
| 12:55 | <Lachy> | the other Lachlan's been licked so many times, I feel like I'm missing out ;-) |
| 12:59 | <krijnh> | Aaw, poor you :) |
| 13:00 | krijnh | (n=krijnhoe⊙kxn) Quit () |
| 13:04 | virtuelv | (n=virtuelv⊙poc) Quit ("Leaving") |
| 13:42 | <annevk> | hmm, do implementations also check <?xml encoding="x"?> for character encoding sniffing in text/html? |
| 13:43 | <Lachy> | I don't think so |
| 13:48 | <annevk> | according to a WebKit dev they do |
| 13:48 | <Lachy> | maybe web kit does, but I'm fairly sure IE and FF don't |
| 13:49 | Lachy | makes a test case... |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | IE is what matters i suppose |
| 13:49 | <annevk> | XHR encoding detection is a mess too |
| 13:50 | <annevk> | it doesn't actually follow any rules or something |
| 13:50 | <Lachy> | the test showed that FF does, IE doesn't |
| 13:51 | <Lachy> | I'm sure Hixie would have tested that when he wrote the encoding sniffing algorithm |
| 13:51 | <Lachy> | does XHR follow XML rules for XML types? |
| 13:52 | <annevk> | well yes |
| 13:52 | <annevk> | but there's also responseText |
| 13:52 | <Lachy> | oh good |
| 13:52 | <Lachy> | yeah, I expected there to be problems with that |
| 13:52 | <annevk> | at some point the fallback has to be UTF-8 |
| 13:52 | <annevk> | for when no content-type is provided |
| 13:52 | <annevk> | for when it's text/plain |
| 13:53 | <Lachy> | I think you can probably adopt the HTML5 algorithm for text/html |
| 13:53 | <annevk> | implementors say no |
| 13:53 | <Lachy> | really? |
| 13:53 | <Lachy> | why is text/html for XHR any different from other text/html? |
| 13:53 | <annevk> | well XHR doesn't follow text/css either atm |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | simplified: |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | 1) if the response Content-Type specifies a charset, use it; |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | 2) otherwise, if the response is XML follow XML rules; |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | 3) otherwise, if Content-Type is not specified or empty, also follow XML rules; |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | 4) otherwise, use utf-8, and do not look inside the response data. |
| 13:55 | <annevk> | not entirely clear to me how you arrive at 4 or how 3 would work |
| 13:55 | <Lachy> | does IE fallback to UTF-8 like that? |
| 13:56 | <annevk> | it seems so, although Bjoern discovered some other incompatibilities iirc |
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| 14:49 | <annevk> | the part on <script> should prolly deal with <!-- and --> in script blocks... |
| 14:49 | <annevk> | or does ECMAScript deal with that? |
| 14:50 | <virtuelv> | annevk: ecma-262-3 or 4 doesn't really deal with angle brackets at all |
| 14:51 | <virtuelv> | I would be fine if it was specified that browsers just ignore it |
| 14:51 | <virtuelv> | the problem is when you have constructs such as <script><!-- if (foo-->bar) --></script> |
| 14:51 | <virtuelv> | where does that comment end? |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | I suppose HTML would have to define it then |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | prolly makes more sense too |
| 14:54 | <virtuelv> | the bizarre thing is that the comments have been fluff since Netscape 2.0, or so |
| 14:55 | <krijnh> | Yet 'everybody' still adds them |
| 14:55 | <virtuelv> | krijnh: sadly, yes |
| 14:55 | <virtuelv> | I've advocated that people drop them for years |
| 14:56 | <Lachy> | sadly, there's actually a "modern" browser that requires the comments :-( Luckly, it can mostly be ignored |
| 14:56 | <krijnh> | Which one? |
| 14:56 | <virtuelv> | Lachy: which? |
| 14:56 | <Lachy> | the Motorolla v3 phone browser |
| 14:57 | <virtuelv> | in that case, ignore it |
| 14:57 | <Lachy> | it sucks big time |
| 14:57 | <Lachy> | I have to deal with it for the mobile sites I build at work |
| 14:57 | <krijnh> | In any case, external scripts |
| 14:57 | <Lachy> | yeah, external scripts should be used anyway |
| 14:58 | <Lachy> | though, not in all cases |
| 14:58 | annevk | was mainly asking this as implementor / testcase writer |
| 14:59 | <Lachy> | /--> gets ignored by the script engine because it's commented out, it causes an error if it's not commented |
| 14:59 | <Lachy> | <!-- should be ignroed by the script engine |
| 15:00 | <Lachy> | I know in CSS, the CSS parser specifically deals with <!-- and --> |
| 15:00 | <krijnh> | With inline css? |
| 15:01 | <Lachy> | within <style><!-- --></style> and in external style sheets. I don't think within style="" is allowed |
| 15:01 | <Lachy> | check CSS2.1 syntax for an accurate answer |
| 15:03 | <krijnh> | http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#comments |
| 15:03 | <krijnh> | Doh, makes sense |
| 15:03 | <virtuelv> | annevk: mostly, //.*--> gets ignored by the script parser |
| 15:03 | <virtuelv> | <!-- gets ignored |
| 15:04 | <virtuelv> | --> does not get ignored by everyone at least |
| 15:04 | <virtuelv> | constructing a test case is a bit hard, though |
| 15:04 | <Lachy> | --> causes syntax errors if it's not commented out with // or /* */ |
| 15:05 | <virtuelv> | Lachy: again 'if (foo-->bar){ doSomething() } ' is, IIRC; perfectly legal ECMA syntax |
| 15:05 | <Lachy> | I think if <!-- appears in an external script, where it isn't touched by the HTML parser, the script engine handles it fine |
| 15:05 | <virtuelv> | ecmascript* |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | Lachy, for some value of "fine" I suppose? |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | in CSS that wouldn't work for instance |
| 15:06 | <Lachy> | what wouldn't work in CSS? |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | <!-- body { background:lime } in an external file |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | where |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | data:text/html,<style>%0a<!--body { background:lime }</style><body>test |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | does work |
| 15:08 | <Lachy> | it should do, the CSS sytnax rules looks like CDO and CDC are allowed to appear there |
| 15:09 | <Lachy> | stylesheet : [ CDO | CDC | S | statement ]*; |
| 15:15 | <Lachy> | good night |
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| 15:16 | <annevk> | oh, maybe i was mistaken |
| 15:16 | <annevk> | i suppose i confused it with people having <style> in their external style sheet |
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| 16:45 | annevk | (n=annevk⊙8972) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 16:54 | mw22_______ | (n=chatzill⊙hdsn) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:56 | BenWard | (n=BenWard⊙cccnc) Quit () |
| 17:15 | sayrer_ | (n=chatzill⊙ucmc) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:19 | <krijnh> | annevk: Do you know if Mark Wubben is on irc somewhere? |
| 17:20 | <hasather> | krijnh: I can ask him to join here |
| 17:20 | <krijnh> | There should be a #sifr channel on this server, but there isn't one :) |
| 17:21 | <hasather> | hey markwubben |
| 17:21 | <annevk> | magic |
| 17:21 | <krijnh> | Magic indeed |
| 17:21 | <krijnh> | :) |
| 17:21 | <markwubben> | krijnh: two people started asking me to join! |
| 17:21 | <markwubben> | (namely david and anne) |
| 17:21 | <krijnh> | Hehe, hooray for IM |
| 17:22 | <krijnh> | markwubben: where is #sifr ? |
| 17:22 | <krijnh> | Or can I just bug you with a question? :) |
| 17:22 | <markwubben> | perhaps in #osflash, nobody ever came to the sifr channel so i stopped hanging out |
| 17:22 | <markwubben> | sure |
| 17:23 | <krijnh> | Using 2.0.2, IE uses <object> in stead of <embed>, which it did in 2.0.1 |
| 17:24 | <krijnh> | Is that a bug or correct behaviour? |
| 17:24 | <markwubben> | correct |
| 17:24 | <krijnh> | K |
| 17:24 | <markwubben> | IE screwed up after the Eolas patch |
| 17:24 | <krijnh> | Cause the flashvars are added as a query string to the swf |
| 17:24 | <markwubben> | using embed |
| 17:24 | <markwubben> | on some machines |
| 17:24 | <markwubben> | correct, and that's beginning to bite |
| 17:24 | <krijnh> | Yeah, pretty irritating |
| 17:24 | <markwubben> | reason is, if you don't and the innerhtml of an ancestor is changed, ie will forget the vars |
| 17:25 | <markwubben> | i didn't quite realize back then that it would cause other problems |
| 17:25 | <markwubben> | but you should use sifr 3 anyway |
| 17:25 | <markwubben> | ;) |
| 17:25 | <krijnh> | I should |
| 17:25 | <krijnh> | :) |
| 17:25 | <krijnh> | Ready for public? |
| 17:28 | <markwubben> | the latest nigthly is pretty good |
| 17:29 | <krijnh> | Pretty good as in it can be used on nfu.nl ? |
| 17:29 | <markwubben> | one issue with IE that could cause issues, but i haven't been able to look further into it |
| 17:29 | <markwubben> | it's a lot better than 2.0.2 |
| 17:30 | <markwubben> | the IE issue appears to be minor, and only occurs if you have an innerhtml dom manipulation right inside the page (so no onload events etc) |
| 17:30 | <markwubben> | so yea, use it |
| 17:30 | <krijnh> | Okay, I will |
| 17:30 | <markwubben> | just make sure to stay up to date with newer versions |
| 17:30 | <krijnh> | That's the problem |
| 17:30 | <markwubben> | not all, but important fixes and releases |
| 17:30 | <markwubben> | yea i know :) |
| 17:30 | <krijnh> | I don't have control over this server :/ |
| 17:32 | <krijnh> | And I hope TYPO3 won't screw up |
| 17:32 | <krijnh> | Anyway |
| 17:32 | <krijnh> | Thanks :) |
| 17:32 | <markwubben> | well, let them decide then |
| 17:32 | <markwubben> | sIFR 3 will save them a lot of bandwith |
| 17:32 | <markwubben> | cause it fixes IE and Safari's problems with fetching the flash movies |
| 17:33 | <krijnh> | I should convince them to use my cms and server then ;p |
| 17:38 | tantek | (n=tantek⊙adspn) Quit () |
| 17:40 | <krijnh> | markwubben: thanks, je mag weer gaan ;o) |
| 17:40 | <markwubben> | lol |
| 17:40 | <markwubben> | i'll stick around until colloquy restarts |
| 17:40 | <krijnh> | :) |
| 17:58 | zcorpan_ | (n=zcorpan⊙8sts) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:59 | <zcorpan_> | Charl: i've made some changes to the status script |
| 18:00 | <Charl> | cool, can i re-upload for you? |
| 18:00 | <zcorpan_> | sure |
| 18:00 | <Charl> | ok hold on |
| 18:00 | <Charl> | my firefox is crashing as usual :) |
| 18:01 | <zcorpan_> | using trunk? |
| 18:01 | <Charl> | yeah |
| 18:04 | markwubben | (n=mark⊙1dcn) Quit () |
| 18:05 | bewest | (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) Quit (Connection timed out) |
| 18:10 | j00p | (n=zeno⊙adxn) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:10 | gsnedders | (n=gsnedder⊙hrbc) Quit () |
| 18:11 | <Charl> | zcorpan_: sorry my checked out copy is at work and i need to go home, my mom is shouting already ;) |
| 18:11 | <Charl> | i'll look at it first thing tomorrow morning for you |
| 18:11 | <Charl> | cheers all |
| 18:11 | Charl | (n=Charl⊙snaz) Quit () |
| 18:41 | icaaq | (i=icaaaq⊙c2cbs) has left #whatwg |
| 18:57 | othermaciej | (i=mjs@nat/apple/x-23ed88dabce42f39) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:02 | othermaciej | (i=mjs@nat/apple/x-02e803889fbdbe6e) Quit (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:12 | <annevk> | http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-tagmem-minutes.html#item04 |
| 19:13 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 19:13 | <annevk> | don't read that |
| 19:13 | <annevk> | it's not interesting |
| 19:13 | <sayrer> | sure isn't ;) |
| 19:14 | <annevk> | and those are the people making up the web architecture... |
| 19:14 | <annevk> | right |
| 19:14 | <sayrer> | well, it is politically difficult for them to say things we would like to hear |
| 19:15 | <sayrer> | so one can never tell if they get it or not from public records |
| 19:17 | <Hixie> | wrt the earlier comment, yes, i spoke to both the youtube people and the google video people |
| 19:24 | <Hixie> | i love all the discussions about whether we should allow native ui |
| 19:24 | <Hixie> | i've already specced that feature, it's just commented out... |
| 19:24 | <annevk> | the discussion is about having it by default |
| 19:25 | <annevk> | fwiw |
| 19:25 | <sayrer> | Hixie, why is it commented out? |
| 19:25 | <annevk> | (well, part of it anyway) |
| 19:25 | <annevk> | sayrer, complexity of the intitial impl |
| 19:25 | <Hixie> | it's commented out as part of the many simpliciations for v1 |
| 19:25 | <Hixie> | if we require v1 to have ui, then people will criticise it when the ui sucks |
| 19:25 | <sayrer> | I see |
| 19:25 | <Hixie> | as, e.g., they have with wf2 and opera's ui |
| 19:26 | <Hixie> | and that will give a lot of strength to the argument that we should drop video altogether |
| 19:26 | <Hixie> | (not really a valid argument, but that rarely matters in wg discussions, sadly) |
| 19:26 | <Hixie> | (i'm talking about it getting removed if this gets to the html wg, btw) |
| 19:27 | <sayrer> | I agree with your parenthetical reasoning |
| 19:27 | <annevk> | if the UI really needs to be there by default it will be in the end anyway |
| 19:28 | <Hixie> | i'm also a little confused by the "either we use <object> or we have an element per media type!" arguments |
| 19:28 | <sayrer> | my only concern is dimensions |
| 19:28 | <Hixie> | why can't we use <object> for the uncommon cases and have elements for the important ones... |
| 19:28 | <Hixie> | sayrer: of? |
| 19:28 | <annevk> | Hixie, that's not logical (apparently) |
| 19:28 | <sayrer> | of <video> given presence of a native UI |
| 19:28 | Hixie | points to the topic again |
| 19:29 | <Hixie> | sayrer: ah yes |
| 19:29 | annevk | only points out what's being said |
| 19:29 | <Hixie> | sayrer: yeah that's one of the tough ones |
| 19:29 | <Hixie> | sayrer: should it be inside the box, outside the box, etc |
| 19:41 | othermaciej | (i=mjs@nat/apple/x-99683985d5cae1cf) Quit (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:52 | csarven | (n=nevrasc⊙m1mvc) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:55 | <Hixie> | no controversial e-mails in the various lists i watch |
| 19:55 | <Hixie> | how sad |
| 19:55 | <Hixie> | ok bbl |
| 19:55 | annevk | wonders what counts as controversial these days |
| 19:56 | <annevk> | <xxx src> |
| 20:05 | <ROBOd> | annevk: that's not controversial :) |
| 20:05 | <annevk> | <nigger>? |
| 20:05 | <ROBOd> | ok, *that* might be |
| 20:06 | <ROBOd> | :) |
| 20:06 | <annevk> | yeah, might... |
| 20:06 | <annevk> | oh well, got to go |
| 20:06 | <ROBOd> | depends who's on the mailing list |
| 20:09 | briansuda | (n=briansud⊙brhi) Quit ("off to find food") |
| 20:09 | <zcorpan_> | we still get spammers to the forum :( |
| 20:11 | <ROBOd> | zcorpan_: phpbb, that's what i call spam |
| 20:11 | <ROBOd> | for a forum i host on my server i made some patches, to fight against spammers |
| 20:12 | <zcorpan_> | what patches? |
| 20:12 | <ROBOd> | first of all, i configured phpbb so that registration requires permission from moderators |
| 20:12 | <ROBOd> | but that's not enough... |
| 20:12 | <zcorpan_> | how do you do that? |
| 20:13 | <ROBOd> | in the administration module |
| 20:13 | <ROBOd> | however, that's not enough, because spammers will, anyway, signup, and until you delete their account |
| 20:13 | <ROBOd> | their account profile will be public |
| 20:13 | <ROBOd> | url, occupation, email and all the values they can fill into the profile |
| 20:13 | <ROBOd> | all spam keywords... they are all visible |
| 20:13 | <ROBOd> | so, my patches deal with that |
| 20:14 | <zcorpan_> | would be great if you could send your patches to hixie |
| 20:14 | <ROBOd> | inactive accounts don't show in "The newest registered user is ..." |
| 20:14 | <ROBOd> | simple users can't see the profile of inactive accounts |
| 20:15 | <zcorpan_> | "Enable account activation: Admin"? |
| 20:15 | <ROBOd> | yes |
| 20:16 | <ROBOd> | and in the members list, no other value (such as location), except the username, is displayed in the page |
| 20:16 | <ROBOd> | for normal users, again |
| 20:16 | <ROBOd> | admins see no difference |
| 20:16 | <ROBOd> | zcorpan_: shall i send the patches to Hixie? |
| 20:17 | <zcorpan_> | yes please |
| 20:17 | <ROBOd> | i will also make them public, on my server |
| 20:17 | <zcorpan_> | ok |
| 20:23 | BenWard | (n=BenWard⊙cccnc) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:26 | annevk | (n=annevk⊙5ccn) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:31 | <Hixie> | if we require moderator permissions, we'd better have active moderators :-) |
| 20:42 | <Dashiva> | How about just routing registration through IRC? |
| 20:44 | <Lachy> | hey kingryan, yt? |
| 20:47 | <Lachy> | kingryan, I wanted to know if it would be possible to set up a copy of 'mfbot' that you use of #microformats, but for announcing changes to the whatwg wiki. |
| 20:53 | <ROBOd> | Hixie: other changes can't be made quickly, to phpbb |
| 20:53 | <ROBOd> | another forum is needed, but any system is susceptible to spam like that |
| 20:54 | <ROBOd> | in my case i tried to make it irrelevant for me if the spammer tries to signup |
| 20:54 | <ROBOd> | and, on the forum i host, i am not the moderator who deals with the account activations... |
| 20:56 | <zcorpan_> | obviously it would be better if spammers didn't get though the registration in the first place |
| 20:56 | <zcorpan_> | or even find the registration page |
| 20:56 | Dashiva | repeats IRC suggestion |
| 20:57 | <ROBOd> | zcorpan_: correct, change the phpbb system |
| 20:57 | <ROBOd> | i also dislike it spammers can signup |
| 20:58 | <zcorpan_> | ROBOd: i did a modification, but it wasn't enough |
| 20:58 | <ROBOd> | zcorpan_: preparing the patches |
| 20:59 | <ROBOd> | zcorpan_: i didn't do any modification to the actual signup process |
| 20:59 | <ROBOd> | i didn't want to bother too much :) |
| 20:59 | <ROBOd> | what did you change? |
| 20:59 | <zcorpan_> | the name of the captcha field |
| 20:59 | <Dashiva> | What if you rotated the field names? :) |
| 21:00 | <zcorpan_> | that could work |
| 21:00 | <zcorpan_> | use name="email" for something else, and the something else for the email |
| 21:02 | <zcorpan_> | or use NCRs |
| 21:02 | <hasather> | Dashiva: great idea, name="password" for password and name="repeatpassword" for e-mail or something probably confuses the bots |
| 21:02 | <hasather> | or what zcorpan_ said |
| 21:11 | <ROBOd> | done, will send the patches now to Hixie |
| 21:11 | <zcorpan_> | ROBOd: wait |
| 21:11 | <ROBOd> | waiting now |
| 21:11 | <zcorpan_> | perhaps swithing name=""s is enough |
| 21:12 | <zcorpan_> | if it isn't then you can send it to hixie later |
| 21:12 | <ROBOd> | they are very simple patches... |
| 21:12 | <ROBOd> | only 3 files, and a few lines |
| 21:12 | sayrer | (n=chatzill⊙ucmc) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:12 | <zcorpan_> | sure, but we don't want admin registration :) |
| 21:13 | <ROBOd> | admin confirmation |
| 21:13 | <ROBOd> | ok then ... i will publish the patches on my site, anyway :) |
| 21:13 | <zcorpan_> | sure, thanks anyway :) |
| 21:14 | <ROBOd> | no problem |
| 21:17 | <Dashiva> | If it's going to be phpBB demand a strike-through mod |
| 21:19 | <ROBOd> | a moderator will still be needed for the forums |
| 21:19 | <ROBOd> | to clean inappropriate messages of users with no logic in their brains :) |
| 21:20 | icaaq | (i=icaaaq⊙c2cbs) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:20 | <ROBOd> | (e.g. obscene messages, or otherwise vulgar messages) |
| 21:33 | <kingryan> | Lachy: hi, I'm here now |
| 21:34 | <kingryan> | mfbot is actually just a shell script tying together a few pieces that are built into mediawiki |
| 21:35 | <kingryan> | Lachy: here's mfbot in its entirety: |
| 21:35 | <kingryan> | #!/bin/sh |
| 21:35 | <kingryan> | cd /var/www/wiki/irc |
| 21:35 | <kingryan> | php rcdumper.php -m \#microformats | ./mxircecho.py mfbot irc.freenode.net |
| 21:39 | <ROBOd> | done, now i uploaded the patches on my site |
| 21:39 | <ROBOd> | http://www.robodesign.ro/mihai/blog/phpbb-2-fighting-spam |
| 21:39 | <ROBOd> | if they are needed, they are now public |
| 21:41 | <Lachy> | kingryan, thanks. How and where would I need to install it and set it up? |
| 21:42 | <ROBOd> | gotta go now |
| 21:42 | <ROBOd> | good night everyone |
| 21:42 | ROBOd | (n=robod⊙8321) Quit ("http://www.robodesign.ro";) |
| 21:42 | <kingryan> | Lachy: for us it's installed on the same web host as the wiki (it hits the db directly) |
| 21:43 | <Lachy> | I can install it on that host |
| 21:43 | krijnh|afk | (n=krijnhoe⊙kxn) Quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 21:43 | karlUshi | (n=karl⊙1rhnj) Quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 21:43 | Dashiva | (i=Dashiva⊙vsnn) Quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 21:44 | <kingryan> | Lachy: we're also using an older version of mediawiki, so YMMV |
| 21:45 | <Lachy> | I gotta get ready for work, could you write and send me some step-by-step instructions for installing it? |
| 21:46 | <kingryan> | there aren't really any steps, just run that shell script |
| 21:46 | <kingryan> | though you may need to change some of the details |
| 21:46 | <Lachy> | where do the files rcdumber.php and mxircecho.py come from? |
| 21:47 | <Lachy> | s/rcdumber/rcdumper/ |
| 21:47 | <kingryan> | from mediawiki |
| 21:47 | <kingryan> | at least they were in our version of it |
| 21:47 | <Lachy> | ok, I'll give it a try after work today |
| 21:50 | <Lachy> | we don't seem to have those files, but they're probably available somewhere online |
| 21:52 | <Dashiva> | Very newest MW version, nice |
| 21:52 | <Lachy> | oh, I just remembered dreamhost apparently doesn't allow IRC, I probably wouldn't be allowed to set it up anyway :-( |
| 22:06 | icaaq | (i=icaaaq⊙c2cbs) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | zcorpan_: done (what does it do?) |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | gotta love some of the mails to whatwg |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | "i'm not an expert in any of the relevant topics, but here's my opinion anyway" |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | especially amusing given that people who _are_ experts have already given their opinion. |
| 22:07 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: it changes the captcha's name to "email" and the email's name to "sneaky" (NRC escaped to confuse bots even more) |
| 22:08 | <Hixie> | ah so it has to be a real human who posts basically |
| 22:08 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: well, it's good they say they're not experts so i don't have to read it ;) |
| 22:09 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: hopefully, yes |
| 22:09 | <Hixie> | let me know how that goes |
| 22:09 | <zcorpan_> | sure |
| 22:11 | csarven | (n=nevrasc⊙m1mvc) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:12 | <Dashiva> | I've been wondering, is Chris Wilson joining the html wg "enough"? |
| 22:13 | <Hixie> | enough for what? |
| 22:13 | <Dashiva> | To get meaningful participation from microsoft |
| 22:13 | <Hixie> | what would you consider meaningful? |
| 22:14 | <Dashiva> | Resulting changes in the browser |
| 22:16 | BenWard | (n=BenWard⊙cccnc) Quit () |
| 22:16 | <Hixie> | i don't think that's up to anyone but management at microsoft |
| 22:17 | <zcorpan_> | Dashiva: probably a more effective way to get changes in the browser is to submit bug reports |
| 22:27 | icaaq_ | (i=icaaaq⊙c2cbs) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:51 | othermaciej | (i=mjs@nat/apple/x-55e1df219b966991) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:55 | <othermaciej_> | Dashiva: I think more people from MS than him will join |
| 22:55 | <othermaciej_> | Dashiva: and I also think that while IE implementing the spec would be better, we can't consider it a showstopper for progress |
| 22:57 | <Dashiva> | Oh, I wasn't really thinking like that. More if him joining was a sign of intended action, or more of a personal thing on his behalf |
| 22:58 | <Hixie> | probably a mixture -- after all, his personal beliefs presumably have a big impact on IE |
| 23:01 | <othermaciej> | he is the IE Platform Architect, so one would assume his opinions carry some weight there |
| 23:06 | karlUshi | (n=karl⊙1rhnj) Quit ("Where dwelt Ymir, or wherein did he find sustenance?") |
| 23:11 | Hixie | wonders how the people who support MPEG4 plan on letting Firefox and other free browsers pay for the MPEG4 license fees |
| 23:13 | <othermaciej> | it's not a per-unit royalty |
| 23:13 | <Hixie> | what is it "per" then? |
| 23:13 | <othermaciej> | MPEG-LA (I think) licenses based on approximate size of mpeg-related business you are doing |
| 23:13 | <othermaciej> | so MoCo/MoFo would presumably owe some fixed amount |
| 23:13 | <Hixie> | so how would that work for, say, linux distros? |
| 23:14 | <othermaciej> | otoh such code could not be under MPL/LGPL/GPL triple license, would need to be something else |
| 23:14 | <Hixie> | that's rather a blocker |
| 23:14 | <othermaciej> | well, it's fine to link a seperate library licensed under, say, BSD license, to an MPL/LGPL/GPL library |
| 23:14 | <othermaciej> | I don't know the details |
| 23:15 | <othermaciej> | and I don't mean to advocate adding an MPEG4 requirement |
| 23:15 | <Hixie> | sure |
| 23:15 | Hixie | doesn't really care about the codec himself, it's just that he has to take into account the needs of people who are distributing software without any financial backing |
| 23:16 | <Hixie> | which rather puts any fees of any kind out of the window |
| 23:16 | markwubben | (n=mark⊙1dcn) Quit () |
| 23:17 | <othermaciej> | I don't know the details of when the fees apply, but it might not preclude that as long as licenses the patent |
| 23:19 | <Hixie> | as long as who licenses the patent? |
| 23:19 | <othermaciej> | er, sorry |
| 23:19 | <othermaciej> | I don't know if I want to make claims about this b/c I have not studied the terms |
| 23:20 | <othermaciej> | but I think for example that it is possible to bundle the QuickTime plugin without paying the patent license because Apple has paid for it |
| 23:20 | <othermaciej> | so analogous condition could apply for other vendors |
| 23:20 | <othermaciej> | but like I said, don't take my word for it |
| 23:20 | <othermaciej> | just don't assume it is unworkable either |
| 23:20 | <Hixie> | seems to me that if it was that simple, someone would have paid the license fee already and linux distros would be happily shipping the codec |
| 23:22 | <tantek> | or it could just be transactional friction |
| 23:22 | <tantek> | which prevent many things "that if it was that simple" from ever happening. |
| 23:24 | <Hixie> | what do you mean by transactional friction? |
| 23:26 | Hixie | begins replying to the 206 <video> element e-mails |
| 23:28 | <Hixie> | 50 people sent messages to this thread |
| 23:28 | <Hixie> | that's an average of 4 mails per person |
| 23:31 | zcorpan_ | has sent one email on <video> |
| 23:32 | <Hixie> | that's great though, means that we have at least 10% active participants on the whatwg list |
| 23:32 | <Hixie> | that's high |
| 23:33 | <zcorpan_> | i know some who are subscribed but i haven't seen any mails from them to the list |
| 23:33 | <Hixie> | oh there are hundreds of lurkers, sure |
| 23:33 | <Hixie> | that's pretty normal |
| 23:33 | <zcorpan_> | yup |
| 23:34 | othermaciej | (i=mjs@nat/apple/x-9c192c7c979df1e1) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:35 | <zcorpan_> | i've seen it being suggested that in forums, 1% post new threads, 10% reply to them, and the rest are lurkers |
| 23:36 | <zcorpan_> | i guess the same figures could be applied to wg mailing lists |
| 23:43 | <Dashiva> | whatwg is less scary to post to than public-html, at least :) |
| 23:44 | <tantek> | Hixie, it means that nothing is as easy as simply "doing the work", that there is communication involved, that there are other things that are higher priority (opportunity costs) etc. all kinds of often dismissed costs of doing anything, however simple. |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | tantek: seems like the cost of not being able to play back any modern video content would offset that |
| 23:45 | <tantek> | no because that is an unrealized gain, rather than a cost |
| 23:45 | <tantek> | the two are different |
| 23:45 | <Dashiva> | mplayer probably eats up most of the gain from video content |
| 23:45 | <Hixie> | fair enough |
| 23:45 | <tantek> | people dismiss unrealized gains ALL the time without even knowing it |
| 23:46 | <tantek> | in fact, you and I are probably dimissing many unrealized gains right now, if we had time to actually think about them |
| 23:46 | <Hixie> | wow, there's a majority in favour of the htmlwg having a f2f meeting |
| 23:46 | <Hixie> | tantek: yeah |
| 23:46 | <othermaciej_> | a lot of modern video is Flash or Windows Media, those patents might not be freely licensable |
| 23:46 | <Hixie> | i wonder if the majority is because only people who actually want to go to a f2f bothered to reply |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | othermaciej_: true |
| 23:47 | <Dashiva> | Hixie: How many votes? |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | 13 yes, 8 no. http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/ftf07/results |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | if you're an html wg member, fill the survey in: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/ftf07/ |
| 23:49 | <Dashiva> | "Hey Surveyman, don't forget to fill out those surveys" |
| 23:49 | <Dashiva> | Those ads always amused me |
| 23:50 | <Hixie> | of the people here, hasather, hendry, jgraham, hsivonen, citoyen, othermaciej, and probably others whom i haven't spotted in the list haven't filled in http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/ftf07/ |
| 23:50 | <othermaciej> | I will fill it in |
| 23:51 | <othermaciej> | but I have to ask my corporate masters if I can offer to host on Apple's behalf |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | you want to host a meeting with over a 100 people? |
| 23:51 | Hixie | is very skeptical that such a meeting is even sensible |
| 23:51 | <othermaciej> | I doubt 100 will actually show up |
| 23:52 | <othermaciej> | I imagine the ratio of people showing up to nominal WG members will be similar to the ratio of people posting on the list to nominal list members |
| 23:52 | <Dashiva> | Most of the new members coming via the whatwg invitation call are probably on private funding, so less likely to travel |
| 23:53 | zcorpan_ | has now filled in the survey |
| 23:54 | Dashiva | is trying to phrase the comments |
| 23:54 | <hasather> | filled it in too |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | uh. the numbers just changed more towards the no. |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | i wonder who changed their minds. |
| 23:56 | <Hixie> | oh maybe i was looking at the wrong results, nm. |
| 23:57 | <Dashiva> | Need to get a job, become rich and wealthy... |
| 23:58 | <hasather> | Dashiva: working at Opera this year? |
| 23:58 | <Dashiva> | If they'll have me, that's the plan |
| 23:59 | <Dashiva> | You? |
| 23:59 | <hasather> | hopefully |
| 23:59 | <Dashiva> | "Skal vi kjäka?" |