| 00:10 | <othermaciej> | they also asked to meet in person with you (perhaps also including YouTube/Google Video people if you thought that was useful) |
| 00:10 | <othermaciej> | I would guess mainly they are impatient but talking in person may make them feel more encouraged, or help them understand what things they should write up in more detail |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | sure |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | we can meet at google or at apple, if someone can give me a lift there |
| 00:13 | <Hixie> | i'm happy to encourage them, but with the csswg meeting and other things at work i've been unable to really make progress |
| 00:13 | <Hixie> | and more meetings aren't likely to help that :-) |
| 00:14 | <othermaciej> | ok, I'll try to arrange something |
| 00:14 | <othermaciej> | hopefully we can keep it to a reasonable amount of time |
| 00:16 | <Hixie> | doing it over lunch is probably the most effective use of our time, but looks like i'm open much of next week so whenever works |
| 00:20 | <othermaciej> | that might be good incentive for them to travel to Free Food Land |
| 06:34 | <zcorpan> | LOL: "well hurrah! let's all have a collective circle w*nk over at the html 5 forum then... :roll:" -- http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7776#51321 |
| 06:35 | <Hixie> | saw that |
| 06:35 | <Hixie> | wasn't sure what it meant |
| 06:37 | <zcorpan> | dunno either |
| 06:46 | <zcorpan> | html mail workshop, eh? |
| 06:46 | zcorpan | reads what that is about |
| 06:48 | <Lachy> | zcorpan, what's that about html mail? link? |
| 06:49 | <zcorpan> | http://www.w3.org/2007/05/html-mail/ |
| 06:51 | Lachy | wants HTML e-mail abolished, but unfortunately, it's here to stay :-( |
| 06:52 | <zcorpan> | why would anyone want to have JavaScript enabled in email? |
| 06:54 | <Lachy> | I don't know, it's a huge security risk |
| 06:55 | <Lachy> | just like loading external images is too |
| 07:31 | <met_> | Stange, my colleague David Majda just wrote Czech article about WHATWG and what brings WF2 http://www.lupa.cz/clanky/whatwg-budoucnost-webu/ There is a poll "Will you appreciate new properties which is WHATWG prepairing?" Answers are ~70% yes. Any other Czech poll about "Do you like XHTML 2.0 or HTML5?" gives every times ~80% for XHTML2.0 |
| 07:32 | <met_> | maybe one point for marketing 8-) |
| 07:53 | <othermaciej> | javascript in mail? |
| 07:53 | <othermaciej> | ewww |
| 08:09 | <Lachy> | met_, my hypothesis for why people like XHTML2 over HTML5 is because there is the perception that XHTML is the future, and that the W3C is the source of all web standards and not some rogue group outside of it |
| 08:10 | <Lachy> | also, when people are asked about the future of the web, many fail to consider the past or instantly write it off as irrelevant |
| 08:11 | <zcorpan> | because in the future, all implementations will be perfect and there will be no tag soup on the web |
| 08:11 | <Lachy> | exactly! |
| 08:11 | <met_> | I also feel that many have XHTML2.0 as and idol although thay do not know it |
| 08:11 | met_ | is afk |
| 08:12 | <zcorpan> | and you can use your light-weight xml parser on your mobile |
| 08:12 | <Lachy> | most people who like XHTML2 have never actually read the spec. They just know it by name and perhaps know of some of the features like href/src/etc. on every element |
| 08:25 | <Lachy> | I suppose one good thing that could come out of the work on HTML email getting interoperability between mail clients, both on the desktop and web based |
| 08:26 | <Lachy> | and scoped stylesheets will actually really help the web based clients |
| 18:16 | <webby|macbook> | !help register |
| 18:17 | <webby|macbook> | hey there |
| 18:18 | <webby|macbook> | anybody online? |
| 18:22 | <met_> | what you need? |
| 18:23 | <webby|macbook> | just saying hello and trying to get into html5 |
| 18:23 | <webby|macbook> | http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6330927813/m/501005914831 |
| 18:23 | <webby|macbook> | (into the html5 community, I mean) |
| 18:26 | <met_> | many just are still sleeping probably |
| 18:26 | <Dashiva> | Or taking the weekend off :) |
| 18:27 | <webby|macbook> | I'm in a different time zone then most probably |
| 18:27 | <webby|macbook> | (Israel, :) ) |
| 18:32 | <webby|macbook> | so what do you guys have established as far as the chicken/egg problem is concerned? |
| 18:32 | <Philip`> | "The W3C says that they won't touch it anymore. "XHTML is the future"." - they seem to be changing their minds now - see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ |
| 18:35 | <met_> | webby|macbook, look at the http://www.whatwg.org/ and the spec |
| 18:35 | <hsivonen> | what's the chicken/egg problem in this case? |
| 18:35 | <webby|macbook> | http://waffle.wootest.net/2007/03/24/now-in-glorious-html5/ |
| 18:36 | <webby|macbook> | you decide to switch to html5, fine and dandy. obviously you won't get far today, even if it's adapted as a standard by the W3C you need browser support. |
| 18:36 | <webby|macbook> | based on past history, it would probably take a loooong time |
| 18:37 | <webby|macbook> | "I can't write a page in html5, browsers don't support it" "we can't support html5 in our browser, nobody is using it.. not worth it" |
| 18:37 | <Dashiva> | Well, the browsers are a big part of whatwg |
| 18:37 | <hsivonen> | webby|macbook: well, there's buy-in from 3 of the top 4 browser vendors |
| 18:38 | <webby|macbook> | exactly where I'm getting to |
| 18:38 | <webby|macbook> | Microsoft isn't |
| 18:38 | <hsivonen> | webby|macbook: it isn't unreasonable to expect them to actually implement this stuff |
| 18:38 | <webby|macbook> | "in" is it? |
| 18:38 | <hsivonen> | webby|macbook: that's what the new HTML WG is for |
| 18:38 | <webby|macbook> | to convince microsoft to support this? |
| 18:38 | <met_> | webby|macbook, browsesr support some parts already http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28WHATWG%29 |
| 18:39 | <webby|macbook> | even if they jump in at one point, probably what's going to happen is that all the other browsers will pick it up much quicker and more fully |
| 18:39 | <hsivonen> | webby|macbook: to make it so that Microsoft's lawyers let the IE team speak with us |
| 18:39 | <met_> | webby|macbook, to make emulation for 100% suppor in IE some is already http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Implementations_in_Web_browsers |
| 18:40 | <webby|macbook> | and what about past versions of IE? |
| 18:40 | <webby|macbook> | I realize html5 is backwards compatible in some places |
| 18:40 | <webby|macbook> | but the new features arn't, if somebody was to make an application in the future that fully takes advantage of the spec and works well in other browsers.. |
| 18:40 | <webby|macbook> | what would happen when the page is rendered in IE6/7? |
| 18:41 | <webby|macbook> | I guess my big idea here is so sort of escape trick to hide it from IE. kind of what was done with CSS. import and what not.. |
| 18:41 | <Dashiva> | Depends on how you make the application |
| 18:41 | <met_> | one of the emulation project for IE http://sourceforge.net/projects/wf2/ |
| 18:44 | <webby|macbook> | cool met_ :) |
| 18:44 | <Philip`> | webby: The new features are already designed so they'll fall back to sensible/acceptable behaviour in older browsers, without needing special IE-only hacks |
| 18:45 | <webby|macbook> | can you elaborate or point me in the right direction? I'm not sure how/what IE would do when it see's a new tag for example |
| 18:46 | <annevk> | <input type=number> falls back to <input type=text> for instance |
| 18:47 | <Philip`> | I'm not sure what pointers are good [and I have to go now], but http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Ccanvas%3EFallback%20content%3C/canvas%3E (loaded in IE) demonstrates the kind of thing that happens |
| 19:59 | <Hixie> | webby|macbook: actually the new features are all designed to have graceful fallback, so they are effectively compatible |