| 01:11 | Hixie | discovers Net::IMAP::Simple |
| 01:11 | Hixie | pokes at his IMAP mail box |
| 01:13 | <Hixie> | 3741 e-mails in my whatwg folders |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | the top five names still in my pile of e-mails to deal with are: |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | Henri Sivonen (245) |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | Jim Ley (144) |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | Matthew Raymond (128) |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | Anne van Kesteren (110) |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | Lachlan Hunt (109) |
| 01:32 | <jruderman> | too bad you can't just off those people. kill one person and everyone thinks you're a murderer! |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | what's amusing to me is that two of those five people haven't really posted much recently |
| 01:38 | <Hixie> | two most common subject lines: |
| 01:38 | <Hixie> | Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5 : 138 |
| 01:38 | <Hixie> | Re: [whatwg] on codecs in a 'video' tag. : 74 |
| 01:38 | <Hixie> | (remember that these are as yet unanswered e-mails, so they're heavily biased by what i've already replied to) |
| 09:46 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: did you implement microsyntaxes? |
| 09:52 | <hsivonen> | hmm. some Java APIs are like namespaces: can't remember them |
| 10:23 | <krijnh> | Why do spambots keep POSTing to 404 URIs :S |
| 10:32 | <virtuelv_> | krijnh: because they also keep POSTing to any URL they have decided |
| 10:32 | <virtuelv_> | I got 10000 POST requests to a document only strictly gettable |
| 10:35 | <krijnh> | Bah |
| 12:39 | <hsivonen> | hmm. I connected the Xalan serializer manually to Xalan and got ill-formed output (duplicate xmlns) |
| 13:00 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: I didn't - are you thinking of http://geoffers.no-ip.com/svn/php-html-5-direct/src/trunk/ ? |
| 13:04 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: hmm, perhaps |
| 13:48 | <zcorpan> | interesting that type="" is authorative on <embed> but ignored on <object> |
| 13:51 | <annevk> | I'd agree that the Web is interesting |
| 13:51 | <zcorpan> | is it required for compat? |
| 13:58 | <annevk> | zcorpan, maybe, at least when src= is not present |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | not sure it makes much sense trying to risk it for a useless element like <embed> |
| 13:59 | <zcorpan> | annevk: you lost me there |
| 14:05 | <zcorpan> | what happens with <param name="" value="foo"> |
| 14:07 | <hsivonen> | I wonder what XHTML-to-XHTML XSLT transformations people tend to do |
| 14:07 | <hsivonen> | I now have only one real-world test case (DanC's task survey transformation) |
| 14:07 | <zcorpan> | (which is broken) |
| 14:08 | <hsivonen> | how? |
| 14:08 | <zcorpan> | it outputs elements in the null namespace |
| 14:08 | <zcorpan> | but works because it's served as text/html |
| 14:08 | <annevk> | zcorpan, <embed type> handling is required for compat when src= is not present (at least) |
| 14:08 | <hsivonen> | ooh. perhaps that's why I saw weirdness with Xalan |
| 14:08 | <annevk> | zcorpan, I'm not sure if changing browser behavior for <embed src type> is worth it |
| 14:09 | <hsivonen> | I already hacked a workaround that trashes xmlns attributes |
| 14:09 | <hsivonen> | but |
| 14:09 | <hsivonen> | with the hack, Xalan gives me sane namespaces scopes. |
| 14:09 | <hsivonen> | hmm. |
| 14:09 | <zcorpan> | annevk: ok. (i'm not suggesting to change it) |
| 14:09 | <hsivonen> | anyway, I am still interested in examples of non-broken XHTML-to-XHTML XSLT transformations |
| 14:14 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: are you sure that DanC's transformation is broken? |
| 14:14 | <zcorpan> | yes |
| 14:14 | <zcorpan> | <xsl:template match='h:div[h:h3/h:a/@id="xbgbio"]/h:table'> |
| 14:14 | <zcorpan> | <ul> |
| 14:14 | <zcorpan> | no default namespace on the ul |
| 14:14 | <hsivonen> | oh, right that part |
| 14:15 | hsivonen | notes the non-use of id() |
| 14:15 | <hsivonen> | probably related to the IDness establishment probs |
| 14:18 | <hsivonen> | http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/08/07/etags |
| 14:57 | <zcorpan> | <map ...><area><area .../> doesn't work in firefox |
| 15:03 | <annevk> | seems that only Firefox implies </address> at <table> and <ol>/<ul> ... |
| 15:03 | <zcorpan> | firefox implies </address>? |
| 15:04 | zcorpan | didn't know |
| 15:04 | <annevk> | I was wondering whether the <address> content model had legacy reasons |
| 15:04 | <annevk> | doesn't seem like it has in IE7 and O9 |
| 15:15 | <zcorpan> | also div, address, dl, center...probably others too |
| 15:15 | <zcorpan> | blockquote |
| 15:16 | <zcorpan> | h1-h6 |
| 15:18 | <zcorpan> | hr, li, menu, pre, fieldset, form |
| 15:19 | <zcorpan> | annevk: address does allow tables in address though |
| 15:19 | <zcorpan> | er |
| 15:19 | <zcorpan> | html5 |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | sure |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | it would be silly otherwise |
| 15:20 | <zcorpan> | seems to be that Ben Boyle thought it didn't |
| 15:21 | <annevk> | oh, allowing it in the parser I meant |
| 15:21 | annevk | didn't check conformance |
| 15:23 | <Philip`> | Aha, I was wondering if Firefox treated anything else the same as <unknown> in terms of implying end tags, but couldn't think of any, but it looks like <address> is one |
| 15:26 | <zcorpan> | we should preserve wordings that makes readers smile! :) |
| 15:33 | <zcorpan> | hmm, ie doesn't support coords=default |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | yeah, known |
| 15:35 | <annevk> | I think IE parsing was not reverse engineered fully or something |
| 15:36 | <zcorpan> | parsing of what? |
| 15:37 | <zcorpan> | s/coords/shape/ |
| 15:38 | <annevk> | coords, I believe it was not really a problem that IE didn't do shape=default |
| 15:39 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 15:39 | zcorpan | needs to play more with image maps |
| 15:39 | <annevk> | I'd spend time on stuff that causes actual problems :) |
| 15:39 | <zcorpan> | such as |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | good question |
| 15:40 | <zcorpan> | seems we apply the areas in the wrong order |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | guess most of those sections are sort of covered, just awaiting implementation experience |
| 15:40 | <zcorpan> | yeah |
| 15:40 | <zcorpan> | i could write test cases for video |
| 15:41 | <zcorpan> | i've avoided that section so far |
| 15:42 | <annevk> | parsing of <meta http-equiv=refresh> ? :) |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan> | http://simon.html5.org/test/html/semantics/area/001.xht |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan> | yeah |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan> | or actually |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan> | http-equiv in general |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan> | it is implemented differently from what html5 says i think |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan> | browsers really treat the values as if they were http headers |
| 15:46 | <zcorpan> | and Refresh is supported as a real header |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | in some browsers, yes |
| 15:46 | <annevk> | the question is whether they can drop such support |
| 15:46 | <zcorpan> | in which browsers is that not so? |
| 15:47 | <annevk> | I thought Refresh was only supported by Gecko, actually |
| 15:47 | <zcorpan> | oh no |
| 15:47 | <zcorpan> | last time i checked i didn't find any browser not supporting it |
| 15:47 | <zcorpan> | but i might have done something wrong by then |
| 15:47 | <annevk> | interesting |
| 15:48 | Philip` | sees <meta http-equiv> used on more pages than <table>, but doesn't have any way to determine the attribute's values :-( |
| 15:49 | zcorpan | assumes content-type and content-language are the 2 top |
| 16:42 | <krijnh> | Perhaps set-cookie |
| 16:48 | <met_> | hsivonen: http://about.validator.nu/author/ from the footer gives 404 |
| 21:14 | <gsnedders> | is there any content that relies on browsers treating HTTP headers ending in "CRLF as the value including the quote? |
| 21:25 | <gsnedders> | this is something browsers do unusually (for HTTP) consistently |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | here's an example of a page that blatently shouldn't validate: http://gallery.mac.com/emily_parker#100335&bgcolor=black |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | and not for the reasons the validator currently gives |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | disable stylesheets on that page to see what i mean |
| 22:47 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fgallery.mac.com%2Femily_parker%23100335%26bgcolor%3Dblack ? |
| 22:49 | <gavin_> | wow |
| 22:50 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: btw i've added a form to validator.whatwg.org so that people can submit URIs from there instead of having one more page to go through |
| 22:50 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: let me know if that's a problem |
| 22:54 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: apparently & is not allowed in the fragment identifier so the IRI parser barfs |
| 22:54 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: the form on validator.whatwg.org is ok |
| 22:55 | <Hixie> | interesting about & |
| 22:56 | <Philip`> | Is <base target="_self"> meant to do anything at all useful? (If it does, I can't work out what it is, but TinyMCE appears to use it quite frequently) |
| 23:01 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: hmm. perhaps it isn't the IRI parser at all. but the HTTP lib doesn't like getting any fragment ids |
| 23:01 | <hsivonen> | I guess I should use the IRI lib to zap the fragment id |
| 23:03 | <Hixie> | yeah you shouldn't send fragids over the wire |
| 23:03 | <Hixie> | maybe the http lib just doesn't know to drop them :-) |
| 23:04 | <Hixie> | Philip`: it probably creates a new window called _self and then targets that a lot - unless something first did window.name = "_self_ ? |