| 08:51 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: how do you envision other specs would use HTML5 "metadata elements"? |
| 08:52 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: if Modularization has taught us anything, it is that those who reuse a vocabulary pick and choose what they want instead of doing what the designer of the vocabulary wanted |
| 21:56 | <Hixie> | i guess i don't understand why people want height/width but not bgcolor, borderstyle, etc |
| 21:56 | <Hixie> | (on video) |
| 21:59 | <othermaciej> | based on usage on img and object presumably |
| 22:00 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: I wouldn't expect the latter, I would expect the former. |
| 22:00 | <Hixie> | wouldn't that also argue for <font>, border="", cellpadding="", bgcolor="", alink="", a host of other features that are widely recognised as being a bad idea? |
| 22:00 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: i don't understand why |
| 22:00 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: because I want to control the height/width of the video more often than anything else |
| 22:01 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: I don't think anyone wants them as conforming |
| 22:01 | <othermaciej> | height/width are very common needs for embedded media and often related to properties of the media item itself |
| 22:01 | <othermaciej> | border width and background color are rare needs and more about pure styling |
| 22:03 | <Hixie> | what dimensions should the object have when the attributes aren't present? |
| 22:04 | <gsnedders> | either 100% of the container (whichever is reached first keeping the aspect ratio the same as the source), or 100% of the source |
| 22:04 | <gsnedders> | I'd lean towards 100% of the source |
| 22:05 | <Hixie> | what if there's no source? |
| 22:05 | <Hixie> | what if the source is HD but the user has a 1024x768 screen? |
| 22:05 | <othermaciej> | intrinsic size when there is a source, whatever img would do with no source when there is no source |
| 22:06 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: do what <img> does. |
| 22:06 | <othermaciej> | presumably people would use the attributes to avoid badness for super huge videos on small screens |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | img would fall back to alt="", which we've already established is not what we want for <video>, we want an "empty" video to just be a video player with no loaded content |
| 22:06 | <Philip`> | People on smallish screens can use their browser's 'zoom out' function |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | Philip`: then they can no longer read the comments next to the video |
| 22:07 | <Philip`> | Then they can zoom in again to read it |
| 22:07 | <othermaciej> | then maybe video with no source gets some default intrinsic size (200 x 100 or whatever) if no size is specified by either attributes or CSS |
| 22:07 | <Philip`> | (I always do the opposite of that on YouTube, since the videos there are displayed too small :-( ) |
| 22:08 | <Philip`> | (though I never read the comments next to the video, because they're YouTube comments) |
| 22:09 | <Philip`> | (which is a kind of unique internet culture that I generally want nothing to do with :-) ) |
| 22:09 | <Philip`> | (but, er, that's not relevant to any point) |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | k well i guess we'll have height/width attributes on <video>, and have the element autosize to content when it has loaded content |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | i'm not 100% sure what we should do to empty <video> elements though |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | and i don't like it :-) |
| 22:16 | <Hixie> | maybe it should default to 300x150 like other replaced content |
| 22:16 | <Hixie> | that would at least be nice and consistent with CSS |
| 22:24 | <Dashiva> | Suppose 18:9 isn't that far away from 16:9 either |
| 22:26 | <doublec> | The feedback from people I've demoed video to has been they like the size of the element to default to the size of the video src if it's not specified. |
| 22:26 | <doublec> | for no src, a default size like othermaciej said seems reasonable |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | ok <video> will default to 300x150 with no content, and to content's size with content |
| 23:59 | <doublec> | sounds good |