| 00:29 | <Hixie> | can anyone find a better 16x16 image on a microsoft-owned domain to represent IE than http://www.microsoft.com/favicon.ico ? |
| 00:32 | <jruderman> | it needs to be hosted on a microsoft domain? |
| 00:38 | <jruderman> | does exploiting an XSS hole on a microsoft domain count? |
| 00:38 | <Hixie> | i'd like it to be hosted on a microsoft domain |
| 00:38 | <Hixie> | what's your uri? :-) |
| 00:39 | <gavin> | does it have to be exactly 16x16? |
| 00:39 | <Hixie> | if possible |
| 00:41 | <gavin> | closes I've found so far is http://www.microsoft.com/enable/images/icons/windowsvista/ie7.jpg |
| 00:41 | <jruderman> | jpg wtf |
| 00:43 | <Philip`> | http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms535205.new(en-us,VS.85).gif |
| 00:43 | <Hixie> | oooh, that might work |
| 00:43 | <Philip`> | http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms531207.ATTR_msext(en-us,VS.85).gif |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | sweet, that first one is perfect |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | thanks |
| 00:47 | <Hixie> | how about something for safari that's better than http://www.webkit.org/favicon.ico ? |
| 00:48 | <Hixie> | the problem with apple is that their "icons" have become photo-realistic multi-megapixel images at this point |
| 00:48 | <Hixie> | (ideally something on apple.com or webkit.org) |
| 00:51 | <Philip`> | "Your search - imagedoesnotexist - did not match any documents. Results have been omitted at your request. If you'd like, you can <a href=/images?q=imagedoesnotexist&svnum=50&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&sa=G>repeat your search with the omitted results included</a>." [as the displayed text] - hmm, looks like someone escaped their HTML one time too many |
| 00:52 | <Hixie> | uri? |
| 00:53 | <Philip`> | http://images.google.com/images?imgsz=icon&q=imagedoesnotexist |
| 00:55 | <Philip`> | I guess http://images.apple.com/safari/images/performance_safari20070611.gif is a bit too big |
| 00:55 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 00:56 | <Philip`> | Use <canvas> to resize it :-) |
| 00:57 | <Hixie> | i'm using it from css |
| 00:58 | <Philip`> | Use <canvas> to resize it and toDataURL it into the CSS |
| 00:58 | <Philip`> | (except that doesn't work because of the security restrictions :-( ) |
| 00:59 | <Hixie> | (i reported the overescaped html issue) |
| 00:59 | <Hixie> | (thanks) |
| 01:04 | Hixie | continues working on http://damowmow.com/playground/spec-annotation/001.html |
| 01:04 | <Hixie> | (which is what i need those icons for, btw) |
| 01:10 | <othermaciej> | cute |
| 02:37 | <jruderman> | Hixie: i think http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/page-loading/incremental/001.cgi?mime=text%2Fxml&delay=1&repeats=10 is busted |
| 03:26 | <Hixie> | jruderman: could be |
| 03:27 | <Hixie> | jruderman: not sure how to fix it |
| 03:44 | <jruderman> | Hixie: :/ |
| 03:44 | <jruderman> | not having that test makes me sad, because it was the testcase for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=368909 |
| 03:45 | <Hixie> | can you tell what's going on? |
| 03:45 | <Hixie> | is it getting gzipped or something? |
| 03:45 | <Hixie> | i don't really even know where to begin looking for a fix |
| 03:45 | <jruderman> | dunno. i tried using telnet last week but didn't get very far. |
| 03:47 | <jruderman> | ok, yeah, it's getting gzipped |
| 03:47 | <Hixie> | that's really weird |
| 03:48 | <Hixie> | gzip is disabled on this server in theory |
| 03:48 | <Hixie> | maybe i'm going through some sort of proxy or something |
| 06:33 | <Dan-> | hello |
| 06:35 | <Dan-> | any iphone software developers here? |
| 06:49 | <othermaciej> | Dan-: in what sense? |
| 06:50 | <Dan-> | i want to start a new company |
| 06:51 | <Dan-> | and need people to program web apps for the iphone |
| 07:15 | <mitsuhiko> | andrioid ftw! |
| 07:30 | <othermaciej> | Dan-: you can probably look for anyone who is a good web developer then |
| 08:32 | <Hixie> | http://damowmow.com/playground/spec-annotation/001.html |
| 08:32 | <Hixie> | if anyone wants to fill in the XXX parts in http://damowmow.com/playground/spec-annotation/status.js -- be my guest :-) |
| 08:33 | <Hixie> | (in particular, the network object at the bottom) |
| 08:33 | <Hixie> | (see also http://damowmow.com/playground/spec-annotation/PROTOCOL ) |
| 08:34 | <OmegaJunior> | Interesting. Using Javascript to automate compliance testing? |
| 08:35 | <OmegaJunior> | No, it does something else |
| 08:38 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: nice |
| 08:39 | <OmegaJunior> | I happen to prefer using Opera... Does Opera not support the feature or does your feature only work in MSIE? |
| 08:39 | <Hixie> | i doubt it works in IE |
| 08:39 | <jacobolus> | Hixie: what's it supposed to do? |
| 08:40 | <OmegaJunior> | It tells me it only works in MSIE though... |
| 08:40 | <Hixie> | jacobolus: i hope to evneutally develop it to allow us to annotate sections of the spec |
| 08:40 | <Hixie> | OmegaJunior: seems to work fine in opera 9.x |
| 08:40 | <OmegaJunior> | Wouldn't that require a javascripted write action to the server document?> |
| 08:41 | <jacobolus> | Hixie: so the javascript is supposed to do what then? |
| 08:41 | <OmegaJunior> | OK, I'll try again and disregard the status message. |
| 08:41 | <jacobolus> | i.e. what does SpecStatusNetworkConnection do? |
| 08:41 | <Hixie> | jacobolus: the XXX bits? |
| 08:41 | <Hixie> | jacobolus: it's the API between the UI and the server |
| 08:41 | <Hixie> | jacobolus: it'll do XHR calls to the cgi scritps (which are also yet to be written) |
| 08:42 | <jacobolus> | gotcha |
| 08:42 | <Hixie> | basically it implements what that PROTOCOL file describes |
| 08:42 | <OmegaJunior> | Cute |
| 08:42 | <Hixie> | anyway, unless someone beats me to it, i'll work on those XXX bits tomorrow :-) |
| 08:42 | <jacobolus> | Hixie: so those XXX bits are pretty simple then. they just do a cgi call and then update the UI? |
| 08:42 | <OmegaJunior> | It's like Google Maps, using Javascript to add material to a server-based file |
| 08:42 | <Hixie> | then it's the server side, unless mike smith beats me to it |
| 08:43 | <Hixie> | jacobolus: just do a cgi call and then invoke the callback, yeah |
| 08:43 | <jacobolus> | aha. so why are they all separate functions? seems like it'll just be repeated code |
| 08:43 | <OmegaJunior> | Hixie: you\re right, the feature does work in Opera 9. The Implementation Status tells us otherwise. |
| 08:44 | <Hixie> | OmegaJunior: you may be confusing the test data with some sort of report on the code itself |
| 08:44 | <OmegaJunior> | Possible |
| 08:44 | <Hixie> | jacobolus: look at the PROTOCOL file, they each have different things they have to send |
| 08:44 | <OmegaJunior> | :) |
| 08:45 | <OmegaJunior> | Oh, I see. Yes, I did misinterpret that Implementation Status. |
| 09:03 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: very cool. |
| 09:22 | <zcorpan> | hmm, ie doesn't seem to interpret us-ascii as windows-1252 |
| 09:22 | <zcorpan> | it seems to convert high bytes to some ascii character |
| 10:51 | <hsivonen> | I need Open Source (non-viral) author readable succinct descriptions of the expected syntax for each attribute value microsyntax in HTML5 |
| 10:51 | <hsivonen> | should I write my own? |
| 10:52 | <OmegaJunior> | Delegate to working group? |
| 10:53 | <hsivonen> | which one? the WHATWG? W3C document output is not Open Source in general |
| 10:54 | <OmegaJunior> | Hmm. |
| 10:54 | <OmegaJunior> | Start a draft on WikiPedia, select open source license, have others add on and correct. |
| 10:55 | <hsivonen> | hmm. I guess I'll start a draft on the WHATWG wiki as its licensing policy suits my needs |
| 10:56 | <OmegaJunior> | Suggested WikiPedia for the larger audience. |
| 10:56 | <OmegaJunior> | Granted, WhatWG wiki will reach target group. |
| 11:25 | <mpt> | OmegaJunior, Wikipedia is licensed under the FDL, which is share-alike aka viral |
| 11:26 | <mpt> | And you'd likely have people crying "WP:NOT", too |
| 11:26 | <OmegaJunior> | Hmm. MediaWiki allows several license options. I had hoped WikiPedia would allow that as well. |
| 11:27 | <OmegaJunior> | People will cry that about any kind of social encyclopedia, but also about any non-open source too |
| 11:27 | <OmegaJunior> | They'll cry because they like to cry. |
| 11:27 | <mpt> | particularly "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" |
| 11:27 | <OmegaJunior> | Is anything? |
| 11:28 | <mpt> | No, but that's not relevant to this question :-) |
| 11:28 | <OmegaJunior> | :D |
| 11:29 | <hsivonen> | It seems to me there's quite a bit of original research on Wikipedia and people complain semirandomly when they don't like the results |
| 11:30 | <OmegaJunior> | So they should do their own research and publish their own results. |
| 11:31 | <mpt> | There's quite a bit of lots of things that are against Wikipedia policy on Wikipedia, and some people will remove it for political reasons, but others will remove it because it's against Wikipedia policy |
| 12:30 | <jacobolus> | hsivonen: they mostly complain when they know that some bit of it is BS |
| 12:30 | <jacobolus> | (which is quite common :) |
| 12:30 | <jacobolus> | some "original research" is pretty useful, and sticks around |
| 12:31 | <jacobolus> | hsivonen: what's an attribute value microsyntax? |
| 12:31 | <hsivonen> | jacobolus: e.g. floating point number, media query, MIME type, IRI reference |
| 12:32 | <jacobolus> | why do you need a non-viral license? |
| 12:33 | <jacobolus> | or you want to incorporate it into some non-free derivative work? |
| 12:35 | <jacobolus> | hsivonen: how many of those are there? is it a major undertaking to write such a document? |
| 12:37 | <hsivonen> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MicrosyntaxDescriptions |
| 12:38 | <hsivonen> | jacobolus: I want the software as a whole to be embeddable as widely as possible and I want it to be packageable for Debian which is likely to invoke GPLv3 for some parts and I can't have competing strong copyleft licenses in there |
| 12:39 | <jacobolus> | gotcha |
| 12:39 | <jacobolus> | yeah, that is pretty many of them :) |
| 12:39 | <jacobolus> | shouldn't be too hard to fill in if you put out a blog post or something |
| 12:48 | <hsivonen> | jacobolus: I think I'll fill in a sample entry and then announce the project on the wiki |
| 13:14 | <hsivonen> | hmm. a couple of Polish link spammers have found the WHATWG blog |
| 13:16 | <hsivonen> | zapped the moderation queue |
| 13:24 | <hsivonen> | I wrote sample content for language tags: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MicrosyntaxDescriptions#Language |
| 13:25 | <hsivonen> | does it look author-readable? |
| 13:25 | <hsivonen> | that is, is it a good sample? |
| 13:27 | <hsivonen> | can anyone think of a politically correct non-contrived example of a language tag that has language, non-default script and a region? |
| 13:35 | <hsivonen> | Lachy, Hixie: blog.whatwg.org warns that WordPress is out of date |
| 13:35 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: it looks ok to me |
| 13:35 | <zcorpan> | (the language tag text, that is) |
| 13:36 | <Lachy> | hsivonen, yes, I'm aware. It's just a minor revision update that I need to do later |
| 13:36 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: thanks. |
| 13:36 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: ok |
| 13:38 | <hsivonen> | posted announcement |
| 13:43 | zcorpan | gets an index of/ at blog.whatwg.org |
| 13:45 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: weird. works for me |
| 13:46 | <Lachy> | I just tried upgrading, but will have to do it later |
| 13:46 | <Lachy> | things got messed up. it's restored now |
| 13:55 | <zcorpan> | works now, yep |
| 13:56 | <Lachy> | blog is now upgraded |
| 13:56 | <Lachy> | I should probably update the wiki to the latest version of media wiki later too |
| 13:58 | <dglazkov> | hi all |
| 14:35 | <zcorpan> | Lachy: links point to 404s in the blog |
| 14:35 | <zcorpan> | e.g. http://blog.whatwg.org/microsyntax-descriptions |
| 14:53 | <Lachy> | zcorpan, hsivonen, fixed. I just forgot to copy .htaccess |
| 14:57 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: thanks |
| 16:00 | <zcorpan> | http://simon.html5.org/test/xml/xml-stylesheet/ |
| 16:00 | <zcorpan> | time to start drafting a spec |
| 16:01 | <zcorpan> | any opinions off-hand? |
| 16:02 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: do you mean you are going to write style sheet PI 5? |
| 16:02 | <zcorpan> | yes |
| 16:02 | <hsivonen> | nice |
| 16:02 | <hsivonen> | so many specs in need of the 5 treament |
| 16:02 | <zcorpan> | indeed |
| 16:08 | <zcorpan> | btw, does someone know enough xslt to know how http://simon.html5.org/test/xml/xml-stylesheet/support/transform.xml can be modified such that the <title> survives the transform? |
| 16:08 | zcorpan | knows close to nothing about xslt |
| 17:46 | <gsnedders> | hmmm… my site rather breaks in IE5.01. sorry 0.25% of my site's visitors. the 0.2% using IE5.5 are fine, though |
| 17:48 | <Philip`> | My recent sites break in IE6 and IE7 too, and it was only intentional in one of them |
| 17:49 | <Philip`> | (*one of the sites) |
| 17:56 | <zcorpan> | interesting. ie parses entities twice when you feed it xml with a css stylesheet -- once with the xml parser and then again with the html parser |
| 17:58 | <zcorpan> | test case: <?xml-stylesheet type='text/css'?><a>&amp;</a> |
| 17:58 | <zcorpan> | (actual result: "&", expected result: "&") |
| 17:59 | <zcorpan> | you can also use &auml; or so to confirm that html entities work |
| 18:17 | <zcorpan> | http://simon.html5.org/specs/xml-stylesheet5 |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | well. the http group is a whole new level of wow. |
| 19:51 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: ? |
| 19:54 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: multi-content-type? |
| 19:55 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: or the RFC 2119 discussion? |
| 20:14 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: all mail to that list in the last 24 hours |
| 20:16 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: well, over 50% of that is RFC 2119 :( |
| 20:17 | gsnedders | wonders if he actually has any homework that isn't overdue |
| 20:50 | <gsnedders> | why the hell does the UCAS pre-registration form require you to choose six subject areas you may be interested in studying at higher education!? |
| 20:51 | <Philip`> | Pre-registration? |
| 20:52 | <Philip`> | (I guess this isn't the same as the thing where you choose six courses/universities to apply to) |
| 20:52 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: nowadays you're meant to get a UCAS card in Year 12/S5 |
| 20:53 | <gsnedders> | this form is badly marked up and badly worded and illogical. |
| 20:53 | <Philip`> | Oh, okay |
| 20:53 | <gsnedders> | do not…receive…by mail |
| 20:53 | <gsnedders> | do…receive…by email |
| 20:53 | <gsnedders> | do…receive…by text messaging |
| 20:53 | <gsnedders> | can we not be consistent!? |
| 20:54 | gsnedders | wonders if he can get away with putting just four subjects down |
| 20:54 | <Philip`> | It's annoying when they take a mostly-understandable paper form and then migrate to an online system which doesn't work and doesn't make sense and is full of errors |
| 20:54 | <gsnedders> | (as, quite frankly, if I didn't get in for any of them, I wouldn't go to uni) |
| 20:54 | <gsnedders> | it seems to have worked |
| 20:54 | <Philip`> | and then charge you £20 to apply onlnie instead of on paper |
| 20:54 | <gsnedders> | heh |
| 20:55 | <Philip`> | *online |
| 20:55 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: you're at Cam, aren't you? |
| 20:55 | <Philip`> | I am |
| 20:55 | <gsnedders> | which college? |
| 20:55 | <Philip`> | King's |
| 20:55 | <gsnedders> | nice |
| 20:56 | <Philip`> | I think it is :-) |
| 20:56 | <gsnedders> | my sister went to Sewlyn to do law |
| 20:56 | <gsnedders> | however you spell it :) |
| 20:56 | <gsnedders> | admittedly, my sister is far older than me (i.e., old enough to legally be my mother!) |
| 20:57 | <Philip`> | *Selwyn :-p |
| 20:57 | <gsnedders> | yeah, phonetically that makes more sense |
| 20:57 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 20:58 | <gsnedders> | ( |
| 20:58 | gsnedders | facedesks |
| 20:58 | <gsnedders> | typing what you want to say before pressing return helps. |
| 20:59 | <gsnedders> | *(I'm planning on doing computational physics, having talked to various people, to a master's degree: neither of oxbridge offer it) |
| 21:00 | <Philip`> | I walk past Selwyn most days, but don't really know much about it except that I don't particularly like the name |
| 21:00 | <gsnedders> | the actual quad is nice, not so the rest of the site |
| 21:01 | <gsnedders> | Question 2 of my Computing homework (given to 16/17 y/os): "What is a _user interface_?" |
| 21:02 | <gsnedders> | now, time to try and get back to doing my homework :) |
| 21:04 | <Philip`> | (My old physics teacher was quite happy that Cambridge forces you do to Natural Sciences for a year instead of something specialised like physics, since he originally went there to do chemistry and then changed his mind) |
| 21:06 | gsnedders | writes date in ISO8601 form, just too confuse most of his teachers and prove he will not be forced to break specs :P |
| 21:06 | <gsnedders> | (in the basic form, and therefore without hyphens) |
| 21:07 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: I haven't done any other sciences since before the two-year Standard Grade (GCSE equiv.) course started |
| 21:08 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: ironically, I am actually better than some people who have done chemistry/biology Standard Grade |
| 21:09 | <gsnedders> | I occasionally wish I had done chemistry, but I've never liked biology at all really |
| 21:10 | <Philip`> | There are a few options in the NatSci first year that don't require any previous knowledge, like, uh, geology |
| 21:12 | <gsnedders> | I will most likely go to Edi, and go straight into second year (as traditionally in Scotland you go to uni after S5 — I'm staying on to S6 and will have done A-Level equivs. (some people just take two years to get to A-S level equivs.)) |
| 21:13 | <gsnedders> | and going straight into second year limits the options for outside subjects, partly as you have extra teaching of the one or two things you'll be missing from the slightly more specialist course at uni |
| 21:16 | <gsnedders> | How much of the algorithm is actually designed by the programmers in large software development companies? |
| 21:16 | gsnedders | has his doubts about quite how true what he is being taught is |
| 21:17 | <Philip`> | "the algorithm"? |
| 21:23 | <gsnedders> | i.e., a formal design such as that within HTML 5's UA requirements |
| 21:36 | <gsnedders> | as is taught, every tiny smallest stage is defined |
| 22:13 | jgraham_ | points out that he did Cellular Biology in his first year of Natural Sciences despite not having done Biology since GCSE |
| 22:14 | <jgraham_> | (although in retrospect the computer science option would have been much more useful, although Cells was fun) |
| 22:16 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I stopped the two before GCSE equiv :P |
| 22:21 | <jgraham_> | hmm my keyboard just stopped working entirely. |
| 22:21 | <Philip`> | (I'm not sure the first year of CS is especially useful, particularly the 25% version - most of the interesting bits come in later years) |
| 22:21 | <jgraham_> | Philip`: The same is true of almost all of Nat. Sci. |
| 22:22 | <jgraham_> | I guess |
| 22:26 | jgraham_ | finds it slightly odd that he works ~5 minutes from Philip` yet they have never knowingly met |
| 22:27 | gsnedders | won't have the excuse in a month's time of having a grand-mother in Cambridge |
| 22:28 | <jgraham_> | gsnedders: the excuse for what? |
| 22:28 | <gsnedders> | jgraham_: going to Cambridge |
| 22:54 | <Philip`> | jgraham_: It seems surprisingly hard to meet people accidentally - there are a few people in Cambridge from my previous school who I've only encountered by chance about twice in three years |
| 22:55 | <Philip`> | (or maybe that's just because I don't hang around the colleges much) |
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